Pennock's Fiero Forum
  General Fiero Chat
  Possible digital insrument cluster in the making (Page 1)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version

This topic is 2 pages long:  1   2 
Previous Page | Next Page
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Possible digital insrument cluster in the making by chetw77cruiser
Started on: 09-11-2011 10:22 PM
Replies: 53 (2829 views)
Last post by: mitchjl22 on 03-16-2016 03:51 AM
chetw77cruiser
Member
Posts: 426
From: Walden, Colorado
Registered: Aug 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-11-2011 10:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I will start off by asking what folks like about digital instrument clusters, be it more accurate information or just for something different, etc. What kind of options do people look for in a digital cluster? Things like numeric or bar-graph style displays. What information do folks look for to be displayed? Things like boost, inside/outside temperature, oil temp, the azimuth of the sun, etc. Any and all opinions are welcome.

I am curious to see what others like to see in a digital instrument cluster. I may have something brewing that may make it to prime-time use. If enough are interested, I may make some for stock and custom applications.

Chet W.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Macs86GT
Member
Posts: 2276
From: hagerstown Maryland
Registered: Apr 2008


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-12-2011 08:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Macs86GTSend a Private Message to Macs86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oil, temp, Alternator voltage, Rpm, speed, odometer if possible, good looking turn signal indicator, I don't mind the numbers but a nicely done circular bar gauge for rpm and speed is nice something where you cant see the individual led's or dots frosted translucent cover
IP: Logged
Danyel
Member
Posts: 6011
From: Lévis, Québec, Canada
Registered: Sep 2008


Feedback score:    (90)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 171
Rate this member

Report this Post09-12-2011 11:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DanyelClick Here to visit Danyel's HomePageSend a Private Message to DanyelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do you mean one of these ??





http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/034606.html
------------------

My build Thread
http://www.tylerstoy.com

[This message has been edited by Danyel (edited 09-12-2011).]

IP: Logged
GADJet
Member
Posts: 1464
From: Star City, AR, USA
Registered: Sep 2010


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-12-2011 11:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GADJetSend a Private Message to GADJetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Macs86GT:

Oil, temp, Alternator voltage, Rpm, speed, odometer if possible, good looking turn signal indicator, I don't mind the numbers but a nicely done circular bar gauge for rpm and speed is nice something where you cant see the individual led's or dots frosted translucent cover


All of that plus outside temp and a directional compass would be nice.
IP: Logged
ltlfrari
Member
Posts: 5315
From: Wake Forest,NC,USA
Registered: Jan 2002


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 127
Rate this member

Report this Post09-12-2011 12:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlfrariClick Here to visit ltlfrari's HomePageClick Here to Email ltlfrariSend a Private Message to ltlfrariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not so much the ip but I have considered making a digital blue dingy thing. That way you could do stuff like only sound the ebrake alarm when the car was moving, ditto the lights alarm if you stop the engine but only for say 10 secs. Need some rewiring though to get the signals in the right place.
Other useful ip features might be a low oil pressure alarm (ie, if 'low' and engine running but ignore 1st couple of seconds after start). High coolant temp etc.

------------------
Dave

www.ltlfrari.com

IP: Logged
qwikgta
Member
Posts: 4526
From: Virginia Beach, VA
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score:    (21)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 83
Rate this member

Report this Post09-12-2011 02:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
.

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 09-12-2011).]

IP: Logged
qwikgta
Member
Posts: 4526
From: Virginia Beach, VA
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score:    (21)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 83
Rate this member

Report this Post09-12-2011 02:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

qwikgta

4526 posts
Member since Jan 2001
fits into the stock dash, aux guages
easy to wire up
Red letter/numbers
and, allow the tach/speedo to swap sides. I want the Speedo on the right side.

make the price realistic

Rob
IP: Logged
nitroheadz28
Member
Posts: 4774
From: Brooklyn, NY
Registered: Mar 2010


Feedback score:    (26)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 94
Rate this member

Report this Post09-12-2011 03:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nitroheadz28Send a Private Message to nitroheadz28Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think you're biggest factor to overcome will be pricing. The current manufacturer of digital dash pieces for Fieros wants $5-600 per set... Thats a big chunk of change, I'm sure its worth it to most people. In my opinion, I don't like digital gauges all that much- but the ones pictured above from the guy who makes them for PFF I actually like a lot.

I think it would be cool if you could make something for the aux pod, that you could have multiple parameters being displayed at the same time. Like 2 parameters per window- oil pressure/ volts in one, vacuum/ AFR in the other for example. I think it would also be cool/ useful to incorporate the ability to cycle parameters in the aux section like water temp/ exhaust gas temp/ oil temp/ etc.

Now THAT would be a setup that I could justify spending $600 for because then I won't have to deal with buying 6+ aftermarket gauges and have them all over my car creating a cluttered appearance when they can be cycling through the aux section.

[This message has been edited by nitroheadz28 (edited 09-12-2011).]

IP: Logged
dobey
Member
Posts: 11572
From:
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 371
User Banned

Report this Post09-12-2011 04:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nitroheadz28:

I think you're biggest factor to overcome will be pricing. The current manufacturer of digital dash pieces for Fieros wants $5-600 per set... Thats a big chunk of change, I'm sure its worth it to most people. In my opinion, I don't like digital gauges all that much- but the ones pictured above from the guy who makes them for PFF I actually like a lot.

I think it would be cool if you could make something for the aux pod, that you could have multiple parameters being displayed at the same time. Like 2 parameters per window- oil pressure/ volts in one, vacuum/ AFR in the other for example. I think it would also be cool/ useful to incorporate the ability to cycle parameters in the aux section like water temp/ exhaust gas temp/ oil temp/ etc.

Now THAT would be a setup that I could justify spending $600 for because then I won't have to deal with buying 6+ aftermarket gauges and have them all over my car creating a cluttered appearance when they can be cycling through the aux section.




IP: Logged
qwikgta
Member
Posts: 4526
From: Virginia Beach, VA
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score:    (21)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 83
Rate this member

Report this Post09-12-2011 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nitroheadz28:

I think you're biggest factor to overcome will be pricing. The current manufacturer of digital dash pieces for Fieros wants $5-600 per set... Thats a big chunk of change, I'm sure its worth it to most people. In my opinion, I don't like digital gauges all that much- but the ones pictured above from the guy who makes them for PFF I actually like a lot.

I think it would be cool if you could make something for the aux pod, that you could have multiple parameters being displayed at the same time. Like 2 parameters per window- oil pressure/ volts in one, vacuum/ AFR in the other for example. I think it would also be cool/ useful to incorporate the ability to cycle parameters in the aux section like water temp/ exhaust gas temp/ oil temp/ etc.

Now THAT would be a setup that I could justify spending $600 for because then I won't have to deal with buying 6+ aftermarket gauges and have them all over my car creating a cluttered appearance when they can be cycling through the aux section.



Issue with showing all that data is getting all that data. Newer OBD-II cars use that data so the ECM/PCM can do a better job of performance/fuel economy. Showing all that is easy, if you have sensors to read it. I don't think the 2.5 or 2.8 have the sensors to provide all that data. A few of my friends with LS2 GTO' have a set of Aux guages that can cycle through all the differant data inputs that go to the ECM/PCM. But yes, I would love to have a set of guages like that.

Rob
IP: Logged
RWDPLZ
Member
Posts: 14407
From: Michigan
Registered: May 2002


Feedback score:    (11)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 295
Rate this member

Report this Post09-12-2011 10:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My biggest complaint with digital clusters is how fast the readouts refresh. The digital speedo in my father's old 96 Crown Vic only updated maybe twice a second, made it REALLY hard to tell how fast you're going.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
chetw77cruiser
Member
Posts: 426
From: Walden, Colorado
Registered: Aug 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-12-2011 10:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You are correct, getting all the data will be the fun part. How much extra wiring are most people willing to do compared to a more plug-n-play setup. I can add all that has been brought up in this discussion, but we need to look at this realistically. Certain options can be implemented when a person needs such functionality, but most are just going for something to replace their stock instrumentation. We will discuss this further as things progress. In the meantime, I have more questions.

First and foremost, would most like the led style or a more traditional needle sweeping gauge for the speed and tach? I have both coded and have played with these setups for a little bit. The problem with the needle style is locating a ready supply that doesn't require a person to order at least 1000. I could possible reuse the stock fiero needles or what ever style a person wanted, but keep in mind that size restraints are a factor that needs to be dealt with. Working with the led display is much more forgiving when space is a factor.

Oh, and as far as the odometer is concerned, I have that implemented in both miles and kilometers with two resettable trip displays for each. I also have a somewhat auto calibration mode for the speed sensor, so the transmission sensor is not a limiting factor. I have tested this in my dodge neon for 2k miles and so far it is only a 10th of a mile off from the reference gps.


Chet W.
IP: Logged
chetw77cruiser
Member
Posts: 426
From: Walden, Colorado
Registered: Aug 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-12-2011 10:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

chetw77cruiser

426 posts
Member since Aug 2009
 
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:

My biggest complaint with digital clusters is how fast the readouts refresh. The digital speedo in my father's old 96 Crown Vic only updated maybe twice a second, made it REALLY hard to tell how fast you're going.


The speedometer at this time refreshes 4 times a second and the tach is almost instantaneous. The refresh rate is not set in stone though.

Chet W.
IP: Logged
nitroheadz28
Member
Posts: 4774
From: Brooklyn, NY
Registered: Mar 2010


Feedback score:    (26)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 94
Rate this member

Report this Post09-12-2011 11:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nitroheadz28Send a Private Message to nitroheadz28Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I myself would definitely prefer needles or something along those lines if it were feasible.

If in fact you could make something like I described in the long run if you eventually start making these, I'd be very interested. It would be the same as if you ran a setup with aftermarket gauges, except you'd have the sensors hooked up to your display so its not like theres more work to do.
IP: Logged
dobey
Member
Posts: 11572
From:
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 371
User Banned

Report this Post09-13-2011 07:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nitroheadz28:

I myself would definitely prefer needles or something along those lines if it were feasible.

If in fact you could make something like I described in the long run if you eventually start making these, I'd be very interested. It would be the same as if you ran a setup with aftermarket gauges, except you'd have the sensors hooked up to your display so its not like theres more work to do.


You would need to make a display capable of handling all those inputs and displaying them properly. Nobody does this really, in a way that uses the older straight electronic inputs that aftermarket gauges use for a specific signal. Most all the aftermarket gauges that do something like this, do it by plugging into the OBD-II system and basically being a scanner.

There are a few race car dash systems however, that do similar to what you want. But if you don't want to pay $5-600 for the currently available aftermarket digital dash conversion for the Fiero, I don't think you'd want to spend $3000 for one either.
IP: Logged
chetw77cruiser
Member
Posts: 426
From: Walden, Colorado
Registered: Aug 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-13-2011 11:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Let's just keep it simple for the time being. Items like compass and in/out temperature, oil temp, and boost shouldn't be a problem. Overall very simple wiring, if any, is needed to make these functional.

I believe that many will find the LCD display and menu system more than enough. Either tomorrow or Thursday I will post a picture or two of the LCD in action. This display makes changing settings and options much easier than even some of the OEM systems. This is almost like a DIC from some of the later Pontiac cars. Not the same, but similar. I even gave thought to mount this in the aux pod location.

Chet W.
IP: Logged
chetw77cruiser
Member
Posts: 426
From: Walden, Colorado
Registered: Aug 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-15-2011 08:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had a chance to take a few photos of the lcd in action> I also tried to take a video of said lcd, but the camera I have does not like the inverse red coloring. The photos also do not do the lcd justice. Anyway, here are some of the functions of the lcd front end.

The odometer is able to go well over 100 thousand miles and kilometers. Here we are at a miniscule 100057 miles.


Just counting off the miles.


The trip counter for both miles and kilometers will reset after 9999.9 back to 0


Showing that kilometers is switchable with miles. The trip counters are seperat of the mile trip counters.


I reset the miles tripB counter. I have a megasquirt computer supplying the speed signal to the dash computer.


The main menu to start changing settings.


Basic Clock settings.


The speed sensor auto calibration menu. Can be set to just about anything between 1 an 1million.


So, what do you think of this as a display. As you can see, the display is an inverse red display with 4 lines by 20 characters.

Chet W.
IP: Logged
Chris Hodson
Member
Posts: 3047
From: NorthWest sub's, IL
Registered: Aug 2006


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 54
Rate this member

Report this Post09-15-2011 11:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Chris HodsonSend a Private Message to Chris HodsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think it would be neat to have where the window switches are if you dont have electric windows.
IP: Logged
JohnWPB
Member
Posts: 5156
From: West Palm Beach, Florida
Registered: May 2009


Feedback score:    (21)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 143
Rate this member

Report this Post09-15-2011 11:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think another KEY thing, is to have it look clean, and modern looking. Not LED's that display an 8 with all single lines, making it look very "boxy". The numbers should look like the video above, like numbers and not numbers on a 1970 calculator

And if possible, use the newer Tri-Color LED's, so the user can alter the color of the display to match their taste. Using single color LED's will limit you to buyers that are interested in that color. If other colors are wanted, you will have to custom make a complete cluster out of the color users want. Most head units use these tri-color LED's now, so you can just cycle through the colors to match the rest of your interior light colors.
IP: Logged
chetw77cruiser
Member
Posts: 426
From: Walden, Colorado
Registered: Aug 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-16-2011 10:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Chris Hodson:

I think it would be neat to have where the window switches are if you dont have electric windows.


Mounting the lcd display anywhere is not a problem as there are only a few wires that attach the display to the main board.
IP: Logged
dobey
Member
Posts: 11572
From:
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 371
User Banned

Report this Post09-16-2011 10:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by chetw77cruiser:


Mounting the lcd display anywhere is not a problem as there are only a few wires that attach the display to the main board.


Only a problem if you care to be able to read it easily.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
chetw77cruiser
Member
Posts: 426
From: Walden, Colorado
Registered: Aug 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-16-2011 11:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That is why my original plan was to either mount it in the aux pod or in the main cluster. I also have a graphic lcd that could be substituted, but I have done little with it. Unless this is more desirable, I will most likely stick to the 4 X 20 lcd.
IP: Logged
Chris Hodson
Member
Posts: 3047
From: NorthWest sub's, IL
Registered: Aug 2006


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 54
Rate this member

Report this Post09-16-2011 07:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Chris HodsonSend a Private Message to Chris HodsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Only a problem if you care to be able to read it easily.



Not a problem if you can read - Sorry had too lol
IP: Logged
dobey
Member
Posts: 11572
From:
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 371
User Banned

Report this Post09-16-2011 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Chris Hodson:
Not a problem if you can read - Sorry had too lol


Lay your phone on your center console with the screen on, and the sun shining directly in it, and tell me how easy it is to read.

Having it directly under your arm isn't very helpful either. It would need to be mounted at an appropriate angle in the dash somewhere, with a bit of overhang surrounding it, so it's easier to read.

When I had my Mini Cooper, the digital readout in the speedo directly in front of me, the radio display, and the automatic hvac display, were all quite hard to read when the sun was shining on them, and they were mounted in appropriate locations facing me, rather than the sky.
IP: Logged
Chris Hodson
Member
Posts: 3047
From: NorthWest sub's, IL
Registered: Aug 2006


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 54
Rate this member

Report this Post09-16-2011 11:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Chris HodsonSend a Private Message to Chris HodsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Tinted windows on my car so it would not be to bad, I dont think its something I would need to look at all the time. Im sure there are better places.
IP: Logged
Macs86GT
Member
Posts: 2276
From: hagerstown Maryland
Registered: Apr 2008


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-17-2011 10:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Macs86GTSend a Private Message to Macs86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would think the lcd would look better. The other one while it is nice to have menu and odometer and trip odometer does l00k a bit pocket protector.
IP: Logged
chetw77cruiser
Member
Posts: 426
From: Walden, Colorado
Registered: Aug 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-17-2011 12:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The lcd looks better in my opinion as well. It is also easier to code and is cheaper for most applications. As far as the odometer, I figured one million miles would be about the max for a good used vehicle.

Someone mentioned going with multi color led's. I think at this time I will stick with red as the main color since this matches the stock pontiac color. If other want a different color, changing the led's during assembly is not a problem. I am looking at a 2X16 lcd with mulitcolor backlighting that may be implemented in the non aux pod instrument cluster, so I may phase in the multi-color led's in a future iteration of the cluster.

Chet W.
IP: Logged
chetw77cruiser
Member
Posts: 426
From: Walden, Colorado
Registered: Aug 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-17-2011 12:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

chetw77cruiser

426 posts
Member since Aug 2009
One more question, what do folks like more, digital or analog gauges? Both would be controlled digitally but obviously the analog would use pointers on a sweep face. If the analog is prefered, I would need for the buyer to send their cluster in so I can reuse the stock pointers. This is unless I can find a source for illuminated pointers that would sell to a private individual for hobby purposes.

Chet W.
IP: Logged
rjblaze
Member
Posts: 1157
From: Bethlehem, Pa., United States
Registered: May 2006


Feedback score:    (19)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-17-2011 11:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rjblazeClick Here to Email rjblazeSend a Private Message to rjblazeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is this going to be an auxillary gauge cluster, or one that completely replaces the original gauge cluster? How big are these units? Can a set of these be configured together to have the same general configuration as the stock cluster? (like the one pictured earlier in this thread) I personally REALLY like the FDD X-1 that Cliff used to make. How about a configuration similar to the Cavalier digital cluster with a digital sweeping (arm or bar graph) for the tach side. All behind a dark-smoke plexi face. Plug-'n-play would be best.

[This message has been edited by rjblaze (edited 09-17-2011).]

IP: Logged
Mickey_Moose
Member
Posts: 7292
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: May 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 142
Rate this member

Report this Post09-18-2011 07:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:
Lay your phone on your center console with the screen on, and the sun shining directly in it, and tell me how easy it is to read.

Having it directly under your arm isn't very helpful either. It would need to be mounted at an appropriate angle in the dash somewhere, with a bit of overhang surrounding it, so it's easier to read.

When I had my Mini Cooper, the digital readout in the speedo directly in front of me, the radio display, and the automatic hvac display, were all quite hard to read when the sun was shining on them, and they were mounted in appropriate locations facing me, rather than the sky.


First this depends on the type of display, and how it was built - LCD displays built for use in cars have a back light that show through a colored 'filter' and then through the 'glass' of the display. The LCD when 'off' is black and the areas that will form the 'character' you see goes clear - so in direct sunlight you will still see the color 'filter' through the glass. Cell phones do NOT use this technology (most because of the color display - car displays for gages are limited to the color of the back filter and can not show complex color images like your phone can).

Displays that were used in the Corvettes and TransAM GTA's used this type of technology, as I am sure so do others that are NOT using the 'typical' vacuum flourscent displays that were also used in digital displays. LED's IIRC where never used by any vehicle manufacturer (just aftermarket) as LED's suffer the most from the sun light problem.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 09-18-2011).]

IP: Logged
dobey
Member
Posts: 11572
From:
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 371
User Banned

Report this Post09-18-2011 08:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


First this depends on the type of display, and how it was built - LCD displays built for use in cars have a back light that show through a colored 'filter' and then through the 'glass' of the display. The LCD when 'off' is black and the areas that will form the 'character' you see goes clear - so in direct sunlight you will still see the color 'filter' through the glass. Cell phones do NOT use this technology (most because of the color display - car displays for gages are limited to the color of the back filter and can not show complex color images like your phone can).

Displays that were used in the Corvettes and TransAM GTA's used this type of technology, as I am sure so do others that are NOT using the 'typical' vacuum flourscent displays that were also used in digital displays. LED's IIRC where never used by any vehicle manufacturer (just aftermarket) as LED's suffer the most from the sun light problem.



Not complex color displays? It's not 1985 any more. Manufacturers are looking to move beyond single-color displays.



The sunlight problem I'm talking about affects all digital dash display types. The backlight/filter is pretty much irrelevant because the issue is with sunlight reflecting off the transparent material in front of the display, which causes the display to not be visible. AFAIK, very few, if any, manufactuers, are shipping with one-way anti-reflective filters on the front of their display, to solve this problem. In some locations it's not much of an issue, but down here closer to the sun, it is. Yes, I'm talking about direct sunlight hitting the display, and not simply out in the daylight.

A serial LCD mounted where the window switches are in a Fiero, would be much more prone to the problem, as there would be no shroud, and would be able to have sunlight hit directly from many more angles. In particular, there is one law of physics that applies here: Angle of incidence is equal to angle of reflection. With a much larger number of angles of incidence available for the sunlight to hit directly, there are far fewer places from which the display will be easily viewable.


IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Mickey_Moose
Member
Posts: 7292
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: May 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 142
Rate this member

Report this Post09-18-2011 04:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Not complex color displays? It's not 1985 any more. Manufacturers are looking to move beyond single-color displays.

The sunlight problem I'm talking about affects all digital dash display types. The backlight/filter is pretty much irrelevant because the issue is with sunlight reflecting off the transparent material in front of the display, which causes the display to not be visible. AFAIK, very few, if any, manufactuers, are shipping with one-way anti-reflective filters on the front of their display, to solve this problem. In some locations it's not much of an issue, but down here closer to the sun, it is. Yes, I'm talking about direct sunlight hitting the display, and not simply out in the daylight.

A serial LCD mounted where the window switches are in a Fiero, would be much more prone to the problem, as there would be no shroud, and would be able to have sunlight hit directly from many more angles. In particular, there is one law of physics that applies here: Angle of incidence is equal to angle of reflection. With a much larger number of angles of incidence available for the sunlight to hit directly, there are far fewer places from which the display will be easily viewable.



ummm...the 2 cars I mentioned above use multicolor displays and both never had an issue with glare (they had anti-refliction coating on the glass - no 'plastic' cover over the top, you look directly at the LCD glass). This was back in the late 80's (TransAm GTA 87-89 had the digital displays and the Corvette 84-89ish). Never an issue with glare on the Corvette (ie. a car with a targa top that saw alot of sunlight on the gages - the displays suffered from another problem because of the targa, but glare was NOT one of them). All I am saying is that not ALL displays suffered from the glare as you are so adamit about arguing about.

If you DON`T like them, that is fine - don`t argue the fact with those that like the displays. Everyone has their own personal tastes.
IP: Logged
dobey
Member
Posts: 11572
From:
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 371
User Banned

Report this Post09-18-2011 04:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:
ummm...the 2 cars I mentioned above use multicolor displays and both never had an issue with glare (they had anti-refliction coating on the glass - no 'plastic' cover over the top, you look directly at the LCD glass). This was back in the late 80's (TransAm GTA 87-89 had the digital displays and the Corvette 84-89ish). Never an issue with glare on the Corvette (ie. a car with a targa top that saw alot of sunlight on the gages - the displays suffered from another problem because of the targa, but glare was NOT one of them). All I am saying is that not ALL displays suffered from the glare as you are so adamit about arguing about.

If you DON`T like them, that is fine - don`t argue the fact with those that like the displays. Everyone has their own personal tastes.


Maybe the 80s GM digital dashes didn't have this problem, fine. I'm not arguing that fact. I am saying the problem exists in the areas being discussed in this thread. OP is NOT Delphi, and presumably does not have access, and possibly the knowledge, to build a very specific solution as was used in those cars. He is using off-the-shelf parts to build a solution. Anyone can build it. It's just an Arduino board and serial LCD.

And DON'T argue the fact that glare is an issue in most cars on the road. Heck, glare is an issue in analog gauges even, but less so as there is more information to go off of, and you can interpolate where the needle is pointing. Not so much on a digital gauge that just says 88.

And I am not arguing. I am pointing out facts, from experience. Two cars made by the same manufacturer doesn't represent what is out there and available from all manufacturers. Chill.
IP: Logged
timgray
Member
Posts: 2461
From: Muskegon,MI,USA
Registered: Jul 2006


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 59
Rate this member

Report this Post09-18-2011 07:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for timgrayClick Here to visit timgray's HomePageClick Here to Email timgraySend a Private Message to timgrayEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Lay your phone on your center console with the screen on, and the sun shining directly in it, and tell me how easy it is to read.

Having it directly under your arm isn't very helpful either. It would need to be mounted at an appropriate angle in the dash somewhere, with a bit of overhang surrounding it, so it's easier to read.

When I had my Mini Cooper, the digital readout in the speedo directly in front of me, the radio display, and the automatic hvac display, were all quite hard to read when the sun was shining on them, and they were mounted in appropriate locations facing me, rather than the sky.


the LCD readouts in my honda works perfectly in bright sunlight. also my iPhone does as well. If you dont use low grade LCD's they are perfectly readable in direct sunlight.

IP: Logged
chetw77cruiser
Member
Posts: 426
From: Walden, Colorado
Registered: Aug 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-18-2011 10:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The lcd I chose for a reason. It is relativly cheap, simple to program, has enough room to display more than enough info, and is readable in direct sun, although not like a transflective display. Those displays are much more in price. I originally used a dot matrix VFD but it washed out more than this lcd. This is why I am also testing the use of analog pointer style speedometer and tachometer, like the dakota digital 57 chevy cluster in design.

Oh, just to let you know, the microcontroller is not an arduino. or a pic for that matter. This one is much better.

Chet W.
IP: Logged
chetw77cruiser
Member
Posts: 426
From: Walden, Colorado
Registered: Aug 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-19-2011 09:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rjblaze:

Is this going to be an auxillary gauge cluster, or one that completely replaces the original gauge cluster? How big are these units? Can a set of these be configured together to have the same general configuration as the stock cluster? (like the one pictured earlier in this thread) I personally REALLY like the FDD X-1 that Cliff used to make. How about a configuration similar to the Cavalier digital cluster with a digital sweeping (arm or bar graph) for the tach side. All behind a dark-smoke plexi face. Plug-'n-play would be best.



To answer the first question, this is going to completely replace the original cluster. Originally these were designed to maintain the same general configuration as the stock cluster. I have since deisgned this to be something all together different than the original configuration, fairly similar to Cliff's design, the FDD X-1. Everything will be replaced with individual modules that will fit in the original backing and make this for the most part plug and play. The new design will use the smoked plexi that will be masked on the back side to reduce any stray lighting. One option I do have on the drawing board is to make my own gauge faces and not need the smoked plexi, just have the clear masked for a cleaner look.

I have some circuit boards coming in the next few days. Hopefully I can get something put together soon so people can get an idea what these are going to look like.

Chet W.

[This message has been edited by chetw77cruiser (edited 09-20-2011).]

IP: Logged
rjblaze
Member
Posts: 1157
From: Bethlehem, Pa., United States
Registered: May 2006


Feedback score:    (19)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-20-2011 08:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rjblazeClick Here to Email rjblazeSend a Private Message to rjblazeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sounds great....can't wait to see the final layout.
IP: Logged
nitroheadz28
Member
Posts: 4774
From: Brooklyn, NY
Registered: Mar 2010


Feedback score:    (26)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 94
Rate this member

Report this Post09-20-2011 11:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for nitroheadz28Send a Private Message to nitroheadz28Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you can make something that looks like the FDD X-1, that would be sweet.
IP: Logged
Ang84Indy
Member
Posts: 576
From: Ohio
Registered: Jul 2009


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-20-2011 05:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Ang84IndySend a Private Message to Ang84IndyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nitroheadz28:

If you can make something that looks like the FDD X-1, that would be sweet.


I agree. i would be very interested.
IP: Logged
chetw77cruiser
Member
Posts: 426
From: Walden, Colorado
Registered: Aug 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-20-2011 11:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fortunately the original plan was to make this cluster similar to the FDD X-1 but not an outright copy. The clock, messages area and odometer will be centrally located or in the aux pod if wanted. All the stock warning and information indicators would be replaced by a new face with a more modern look and feel to it.

If people want the fdd x-1 style, that will be the way I proceed, but everyone needs to let me know so I know if this is going to be a worthwhile project.

Chet W.

[This message has been edited by chetw77cruiser (edited 09-20-2011).]

IP: Logged
Previous Page | Next Page

This topic is 2 pages long:  1   2 
next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock