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LS4 Swap Into 88 GT by MstangsBware
Started on: 09-16-2007 01:54 PM
Replies: 134 (9890 views)
Last post by: Tom Slick on 05-30-2014 07:33 AM
FieroBobo
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Report this Post10-20-2008 08:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroBoboClick Here to Email FieroBoboSend a Private Message to FieroBoboEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
RONT4.9,

Out of idle curiosity, what sort of gas mileage are you getting with your LS4 powered Fiero?

Thanks.

~Bob

------------------
"Its nice to be important.
Its more important to be nice."

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post10-21-2008 05:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:


So after pulling it back out, re-working the mounts I got the motor str8 but then it made it high on the crank side. I then had to re-work the mounts one more time to lower the engine down so it sits level and str8 in the engine bay. I re-installed it in the engine bay again last night and it looks pretty good all the way around. I found a smaller pulley to use on the WP housing to give me some extra clearance on the firewall. Here is what it looks like now:



I know it's a lot of work to make changes so it fits straight and level (if you don't get it the first time), but you certainly WON'T be disappointed in doing this down the road. I have seen so many swaps done over the years by people who simply got in a hurry to finish it instead of taking time to make it look good and sit in the engine bay correctly. Aligning and leveling the engine in the chassis also has other advantages -- it evens up your driveline angles. Even though we are using CV axles in these cars, they are still sensitive to uneven angles from side to side and bad vibrations can result if the inner and outer tripods are not close to parallel with each other.

Good luck with your project!

------------------
5+ years on this same swap -- NO engine or transmission failures...

Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com

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Raydar
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Report this Post10-21-2008 07:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
...IMO these swaps will be a tight fit, be difficult to tune and get running correctly...


As an old manager of mine used to say, "There is absolutely no substitute for knowing what you're doing."
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RONT4.9
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Report this Post11-05-2008 01:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RONT4.9Click Here to Email RONT4.9Send a Private Message to RONT4.9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroBobo:

RONT4.9,

Out of idle curiosity, what sort of gas mileage are you getting with your LS4 powered Fiero?

Thanks.

~Bob




Bob, From what i have measured so far i seem to be averaging a little above 20mpg. Now, that's an average which includes a lot of WOT runs. When all the dust settles, i believe the average will be around 25mpg. ( It seems to be as good or better than my 4.9 swap done.)
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RONT4.9
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Report this Post11-05-2008 01:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RONT4.9Click Here to Email RONT4.9Send a Private Message to RONT4.9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:


I know it's a lot of work to make changes so it fits straight and level (if you don't get it the first time), but you certainly WON'T be disappointed in doing this down the road. I have seen so many swaps done over the years by people who simply got in a hurry to finish it instead of taking time to make it look good and sit in the engine bay correctly. Aligning and leveling the engine in the chassis also has other advantages -- it evens up your driveline angles. Even though we are using CV axles in these cars, they are still sensitive to uneven angles from side to side and bad vibrations can result if the inner and outer tripods are not close to parallel with each other.

Good luck with your project!



This is SOOOOOO! true, and it makes a HUGE difference in drive-ability. It's well worth the effort it takes to get it right.
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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post11-19-2008 12:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RONT4.9:


Bob, From what i have measured so far i seem to be averaging a little above 20mpg. Now, that's an average which includes a lot of WOT runs. When all the dust settles, i believe the average will be around 25mpg. ( It seems to be as good or better than my 4.9 swap done.)



I hope to get about 26mpg with my LS4 (I do 90% freeway driving). Not bad for a 300+hp V8. That is about what I got with the stock 125hp 2.8 V6.
A few weeks ago some stupid ran into the back of my Short Star GT. I took it in to get fixed and they gave me a rental car. It was a Chevy Aveo. A really ugly little "econo box" car. In one full tank of gas I averaged 27.5mpg. So that made the LS4 Fiero look even better to me.

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MstangsBware
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Report this Post11-19-2008 03:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Since the thread got bumped I guess I will add to it. I have not touched the swap in a while being I am working on a 3800SC swap for a guy and then odd/end Fiero work for others. I want to be done with it by Feb. so that is my goal. If FieroAddiction has some of his parts for sale soon then I want to change up my Alt bracket to the style he uses so I can use a tensioner.

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MstangsBware
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Report this Post11-19-2008 03:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

MstangsBware

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quote
Originally posted by RONT4.9:


Bob, From what i have measured so far i seem to be averaging a little above 20mpg. Now, that's an average which includes a lot of WOT runs. When all the dust settles, i believe the average will be around 25mpg. ( It seems to be as good or better than my 4.9 swap done.)



Are you using the DOD function?
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RONT4.9
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Report this Post11-23-2008 06:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RONT4.9Click Here to Email RONT4.9Send a Private Message to RONT4.9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:
Are you using the DOD function?


Yes, the DOD was left in for the sake of mileage. However, i can't seem to tell if it is actually working when i drive the car. I believe it is, or i would get some kind of a code.
Ron
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MstangsBware
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Report this Post11-24-2008 12:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RONT4.9:


Yes, the DOD was left in for the sake of mileage. However, i can't seem to tell if it is actually working when i drive the car. I believe it is, or i would get some kind of a code.
Ron


I was hoping to hear some better MPG numbers out of the LS4 swaps into Fieros. Looks like it is no better than what my modded 3800SC get which is okay. If this is the case then the motor might go ahead an get a cam, springs, LS2 intake before the final install. Then again might run in stock and then go from there but I guess I need to get it done before making to many more plans.
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Report this Post11-24-2008 07:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for OreifClick Here to visit Oreif's HomePageClick Here to Email OreifSend a Private Message to OreifEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

All 3800SC's were discontinued by GM in 2008. The plant was closed and the LS4 was chosen to take its place.


While it is true that the 3800/3800SC series engines have been discontinued and the plant closed in August 2008, The statement that the LS4 is the "replacement" is incorrect. The LZ4 3500 OHV V6 will replace the naturally aspirated 3800 applications, and the LY7 3600 DOHC V6 will replace the supercharged 3800 applications.

As for the rest, It's obvious that the LS4 has been swapped in a few cars and they fit/run just fine.
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Report this Post11-24-2008 10:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Oreif:


While it is true that the 3800/3800SC series engines have been discontinued and the plant closed in August 2008, The statement that the LS4 is the "replacement" is incorrect. The LZ4 3500 OHV V6 will replace the naturally aspirated 3800 applications, and the LY7 3600 DOHC V6 will replace the supercharged 3800 applications.

As for the rest, It's obvious that the LS4 has been swapped in a few cars and they fit/run just fine.


Both these motors will make great swaps into Fieros once all the electonics are figured out. My wife's G-6 has the 3500 in it and the power it has would be nice in a Fiero and then the 3600 DOHC would make it even better. I am sure it is only time before they are ending up in Fieros and become the next big swap.

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Report this Post11-26-2008 01:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blkcofySend a Private Message to blkcofyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:


I was hoping to hear some better MPG numbers out of the LS4 swaps into Fieros. Looks like it is no better than what my modded 3800SC get which is okay. If this is the case then the motor might go ahead an get a cam, springs, LS2 intake before the final install. Then again might run in stock and then go from there but I guess I need to get it done before making to many more plans.


I'm probably getting 22 mpg on my LS4 swap (w/ DOD) using premium gas. Mind you, I was born with a birth deformity (lead foot-titus) so the average person might get a bit more than that from a v8 engine. I get about 18 mph on my 4.4 L V8 on my BMW, which I drive much more responsibly. Every time I get a new tank of gas I tell myself to try to not gun it, but rude people keep "challenging" me on the road and, well....vroooom! It's gotten so bad, I can't even make it down my block without feeling....threatened! I was averaging about 26 on the highway when I was driving it back to Ryan for a check up...then as luck would have it, two abusive drivers of a Mustang and Monte Carlo threatened me while I was minding my own business, and that was that.


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Report this Post11-26-2008 02:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by blkcofy:


I'm probably getting 22 mpg on my LS4 swap (w/ DOD) using premium gas. Mind you, I was born with a birth deformity (lead foot-titus) so the average person might get a bit more than that from a v8 engine. I get about 18 mph on my 4.4 L V8 on my BMW, which I drive much more responsibly. Every time I get a new tank of gas I tell myself to try to not gun it, but rude people keep "challenging" me on the road and, well....vroooom! It's gotten so bad, I can't even make it down my block without feeling....threatened! I was averaging about 26 on the highway when I was driving it back to Ryan for a check up...then as luck would have it, two abusive drivers of a Mustang and Monte Carlo threatened me while I was minding my own business, and that was that.




Is your LS4 modified? That should hurt a little?

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Report this Post12-15-2008 04:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BMTFIEROClick Here to Email BMTFIEROSend a Private Message to BMTFIEROEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
WHats new?
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MstangsBware
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Report this Post12-15-2008 07:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BMTFIERO:

WHats new?



From eyeballing it--there is about another .5 mil of dust gathered on top of the intake. I did clean all the boxes off the car so I could at least look at the motor sitting in the engine bay. I am wrapping up a 3800SC swap and hope to get a little work done to it between other jobs.
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Report this Post05-23-2009 11:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BMTFIEROClick Here to Email BMTFIEROSend a Private Message to BMTFIEROEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A "Keeping it alive " Bump
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Report this Post05-24-2009 10:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry I missed the meeting Sat. So once this is finished and you do more LS4 swaps, do we call you V-8Stephen?

edit fur spealin
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Why fight to be accepted by people you don't actually want to be like?

[This message has been edited by fierocarparts (edited 05-24-2009).]

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MstangsBware
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Report this Post12-30-2009 04:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just a bump to keep it alive--No new work done on it but it will come to life this year.

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Report this Post12-31-2009 12:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for F355spiderClick Here to Email F355spiderSend a Private Message to F355spiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Glad to see it coming along.
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Report this Post02-01-2010 12:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Progress, pix?
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Report this Post02-01-2010 08:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierocarparts:

Progress, pix?


I will get a picture of all the stuff piled up on the car/engine today and post them. That is about the only thing that has changed with the swap. I am working on one last 3800 swap for a guy and then it is on to the LS4. I plan on having it completed this year one way or another.
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Tom Slick
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Report this Post02-01-2010 12:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tom SlickClick Here to Email Tom SlickSend a Private Message to Tom SlickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
you should shoot for the Pontiac Southern Nationals to debut the LS4. i thought how cool would that be to show an LS4 Fiero but mine won't be done anytime soon, since i really haven't started on it.
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Report this Post04-12-2010 11:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
With all the LS4 Threads coming up thought I would bump mine. Going to get back started on it soon. Plans are to get it on the road rthis year....3 years is long enough for a swap I guess......
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Report this Post04-13-2010 09:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IsoldeSend a Private Message to IsoldeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one whose progress is so slow.
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Report this Post04-13-2010 10:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TurboTecClick Here to visit TurboTec's HomePageSend a Private Message to TurboTecEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm looking forward to all of these LS4 build threads so knock the dust off and take some pictures. LOL... As I've just started mine its easy for me to say right... Just don't ask about my LSX Corvette project, 4yrs and counting...
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Report this Post04-13-2010 11:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for F355spiderClick Here to Email F355spiderSend a Private Message to F355spiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yea hurry up so I can be motivated to do my car. My wife wants my turbo 3.4 engine in her GT so I have the green light just have to get the place here to do it.
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Report this Post04-13-2010 09:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DogcreekClick Here to Email DogcreekSend a Private Message to DogcreekEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi MstangsBware!

Thanks for visiting my thread! Man there are a lot of LS4 builds going right now which is great news for all of us...Maybe we should see if Cliff would give us our own forum? LOL

I have learned a little something from our "forefathers" on this...actually a LOT... Joe, who is doing my swap (Fieroking) is my sensei but he has tapped the knowledge of EVERY build here plus Chris at WCF ( Thanks Chris) and other sources... The multiple threads can only be good... Plus from what I have learned, every build is a little different with all of us looking for and designing differences into to our own unique cars....

Thanks for getting your thread going.... LS4 builders unite!!!

Will be watching closely!! Jeff

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[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-13-2010).]

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Report this Post04-13-2010 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for F355spiderClick Here to Email F355spiderSend a Private Message to F355spiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A little something to ad to this thread yes a picture

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Report this Post06-01-2010 04:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:
With all the LS4 Threads coming up thought I would bump mine. Going to get back started on it soon. Plans are to get it on the road rthis year....3 years is long enough for a swap I guess......


Any progress. I just bought an engine off eBay, so will be kicking up my own progress soon.
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Report this Post06-01-2010 06:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Any progress. I just bought an engine off eBay, so will be kicking up my own progress soon.


Well I did clean everything off it and plan to pull the setup back out of the car to weld the final mount. Then I will start on looking into the wiring of the setup and see how far I can get on that.
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Report this Post06-25-2010 09:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any news? Or just really slow going after the trip to Cali?
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Report this Post06-25-2010 05:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

Any news? Or just really slow going after the trip to Cali?


I haven't done anything with the swap just yet...I plan on pulling it ouf of the car thiss weekend and welding up the mounts I made for it now that it sits straight. Then I will start on laying on the wiring harness on the motor to see what I think about it. Also going to rework the belt routing and rework the Alt low mount so it uses a auto tensioner.....
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Report this Post06-25-2010 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice, I've just about got my engine teardown done. But it's going to be a couple weeks before I can work on it again, since I'll be out of town. But as soon as I get back, I hope to get the teardown down, and all the parts cleaned up, and ready to go back on (the ones I'm not replacing at least). And I hope to figure out the wiring for my massively hybrid steering column that I'm swapping in, so I can get it done. Just gotta figure out the wiring for it, and the new ignition switch, and find a place to mount the switch, and I can start getting it in.
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Report this Post09-07-2010 09:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Finally an update on the swap that has a few new pictures and things getting rolling on it again. This week I completed the mounting of the swap as it will sit in the engine bay. I also started working on the belt routing with the Alt mounted low. The Alt is mounted low by taking the stock mount and flipping it up side down. One hole lines up in the head and there is another area in the mount where it can be bolted down using a pinch type setup. This setup seems to work well and looks good with only a little clearance issues on the lower frame rail. For the belt routing I removed the stock tensioner for the LS4 and replaced it with one from a 3.1 motor that I have laying around. It fit nicely over the lower bolt hole of the stock LS4 tensioner setup. The belt routing showed is pretty much how it will go except for I will also use the other pulley by the crank once I get the correct belt and I might not use the pulley on the Alt mount. I plan on using the PS pump/pulley as a dummy setup being it works well for the belt routing. Now it is time to clean up the engine bay again and prep it for the engine to go back in. I plan on test fitting the engine one more time to insure everything still clears as before.


[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 09-07-2010).]

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Report this Post09-07-2010 11:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Isn't that alternator/tensioner gonna be right where the axle should go? Or is it a trick of the camera because of the angle of the shot?

Looking at Jeff's Fieroking shot:


From This build thread


I may be off, but I saw that build in progress, and room there is REALLY tight...

Good luck!

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Currently in the middle of my 88 + 3800NA swap

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MstangsBware
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Report this Post09-07-2010 11:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

Isn't that alternator/tensioner gonna be right where the axle should go? Or is it a trick of the camera because of the angle of the shot?

Looking at Jeff's Fieroking shot:
]

From This build thread


I may be off, but I saw that build in progress, and room there is REALLY tight...

Good luck!




Yeah it was right where the axle would be going....I noticed that once I posted the pictures and went back out to the shop to work on it some more. I think I have the issue solved though with a smaller pulley and re-postioning the tensioner closer to the crank pulley. There is clearance between the CV boot and tensioner now but not a whole lot. Going to look for a smaller pulley for the tensioner to see if I can get more clearance. Also the CV boot is the issue so I might be able to replace it with a shorter rubber boot for more clearance. If all else fells I will go back and find another place to add the tensioner...

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Report this Post09-08-2010 01:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any chance you could fit the GXP tensioner? That spring is really beefy, and you could go from the bottom of the crank pulley over the tensioner, back down and under the alternator, and then back up...

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Report this Post09-08-2010 01:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

aaronkoch

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It would also help give a bit more wrap on the crank pulley, I know Jeff is still fighting a bit of a squeak, and his wraps around it pretty good..
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Report this Post09-08-2010 08:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

Any chance you could fit the GXP tensioner? That spring is really beefy, and you could go from the bottom of the crank pulley over the tensioner, back down and under the alternator, and then back up...




I tried everyway possible that I could think of to use the stock tensioner but nothing worked. Thinking of running a GP 99 up Alt like Don Kraus did to make things easier.
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