When you buy new tires, do you ever look at the DOT number permanently embedded on the side wall. I don't or didn't until recently learning a hard lesson.
A few years ago, two to three, I purchased a new set of 10 ply Michelin tires for my truck. I really liked these tires. They were the same tires I got on the truck when it was new and gave me outstanding performance/mileage and were built to carry the loads my truck and trailer handled. Went to my local dealer and told him what I wanted and set up a time to get them replaced. I got a call before the appointment telling me that he (the tire dealer) was having a hard time finding a complete set. He had two but was not able to find the final two for the set. But would let me know when he had the two. After a couple of days, he called and gets me right in and I left happy with my new set of tires.

Fast forward two or three years. Actually, I think it was about 2 1/2 years and I'm returning from a transport to the north side of Chicago when I felt an explosion on the left rear of the truck. That tire had blown out. So, I proceeded to get to the side of the interstate and change the tire. The blow out was pretty severe. Resulted in a shredded tire and significant damage to my truck bed and fenders. So I got an estimate for repairs for my insurance company. All is well up to this point. I was asked if I wanted to hold the tire company responsible for the damages and I replied that I thought that was fair. This is when it got interesting and frustrating.

Now, to be honest, I couldn't find the receipt from the tire purchase but figured the tire store would have it in their records. I was wrong, their electronic records don't show me ever buying tires from there. I've purchased at least three sets of tires from them in the past five years for different vehicles. None of those purchases showed up in his records. So, we call Michelin Service Center about my problem, they want a full report which was provided. We take pictures of the ruined tire, the damage on the truck, put the truck on the lift and look at all the tires. The dealer starts writing down the DOT numbers off each tire. Well, I've seen them before but never paid much attention. This is where I went wrong 2 1/2 years ago.

I knew these were the tires that dealer put on but, he's found an issue. It seems that I have two tires that are almost three years old and two tires that are eight years old. As I am about to learn, federal regulations halt a tire manufacturers responsibility at six years from the date of manufacture. I assume that means they can not sell tires six years old. Regardless, the dealer says there is no way I sold you those tires. Well, I know better but that's an issue between he and I.

The reason I started this thread was to let you know how important it is to look at that DOT #. The last four numbers are very important. They represent the week and year the tire was produced. Had I known this, those two older tires would have never gotten near my truck. I suspect that I got sold a couple of tires that either were in some warehouse or, came off of a new vehicle that my guy bought at a discounted price and sold to me as new. I can't prove it and I know it but, I also know those four tires are the same tires that were put on at my local shop.

Never put on a set with out looking at that DOT number. That mistake just cost me over $5K. For an explanation of DOT numbers, see the link.

http://www.tirerack.com/tir...hpage.jsp?techid=172

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Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

The last time I bought new tires they wrote down the DOT numbers on the receipt. I figured they did that because they were required to, but I honestly don't know. As for your question......call me weird, but yes, I always look at the DOT numbers to see when that particular tire was "born".

quote Originally posted by mrfiero: The last time I bought new tires they wrote down the DOT numbers on the receipt. I figured they did that because they were required to, but I honestly don't know. As for your question......call me weird, but yes, I always look at the DOT numbers to see when that particular tire was "born".

Okay, you're weird.

I honestly can't say I ever did that before but, I can assure you, I will in the future. So, you already knew what the last four numbers were for? I'll admit I should have asked but don't remember ever having that information.

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Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Okay, you're weird. I honestly can't say I ever did that before but, I can assure you, I will in the future. So, you already knew what the last four numbers were for? I'll admit I should have asked but don't remember ever having that information.

I've been called worse. Yes, I've known about the date codes (last 4 digits) since sometime in the 90's. I can't remember who told me, but someone did and now I look for them everytime I buy tires.

Well, so much for being a trusting soul. As I said previously, I've bought three sets of tires from this business in the past five years, I won't make that mistake again.

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Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

As a motorcycle rider, that can be very important information. I bought a used motorcycle last year that had tires so new, they still had the little rubber "tits" on them. One of the tires was actually over seven years old.

quote Originally posted by williegoat: As a motorcycle rider, that can be very important information. I bought a used motorcycle last year that had tires so new, they still had the little rubber "tits" on them. One of the tires was actually over seven years old.

Willie,
That was part of my point, just cause the tires look good and still have those tits, doesn't mean they are new or recent production. The tires that were put on my truck looked brand new. You are very correct about that being important on a bike. I've had a blow out on a bike before. Luckily, it was a rear tire.

The rest of my point is, don't trust anyone but yourself. I'm sure when I bought those tires, my local dealer didn't think this would ever happen or, he at least hoped it wouldn't.

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Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

I've known about the date stamp for a few years. When I put tires on my truck, I looked at the "born on" date. All were manufactured within a year or so. My next rear bike tire will be a run flat car tire which I'll probably have to buy online. I'm not looking forward to possibly returning it if it's "old" but I will if I have to. Better than to put an "old" tire on the back of a bike (like you guys already said).

I never have, but will start.

And i have found that same problem with 'store records' for tire places, they don't seem to keep them as long as other kinds of businesses.. perhaps this is part of why?

quote Originally posted by Monkeyman: I've known about the date stamp for a few years. When I put tires on my truck, I looked at the "born on" date. All were manufactured within a year or so. My next rear bike tire will be a run flat car tire which I'll probably have to buy online. I'm not looking forward to possibly returning it if it's "old" but I will if I have to. Better than to put an "old" tire on the back of a bike (like you guys already said).

Agreed. So, you're going dark side. I went to the dark side last fall. I'm running an Austone Taxi Tire on the rear of my Valkyrie. Works very well for me and because it was made of a tougher compound it's barely showing any wear after 5K miles. I was running Metzlers but was only getting about 7500 to 8K miles per tire change. I'm hooked on it. But, you are right, one does not want to run old tires especially if you're pushing or stressing it in any way.

I remember a discussion a while back where I was the person warning folks to watch out putting old sun baked, weathered tires on. The fact is, old tires don't show what's breaking down on the inside.

quote Originally posted by Nurb432: I never have, but will start. And i have found that same problem with 'store records' for tire places, they don't seem to keep them as long as other kinds of businesses.. perhaps this is part of why?

My answer to that is to demand that the DOT numbers are on the receipt and from this point on, I will ensure I retain that receipt until the next tire change. I can't control whether or not they retain the records but, I can control what I keep. In this case, it's one of those hard learned lessons. Never really worried about it before, it's the first time I've ever had a blow out take out the side of my vehicle. Shrug, live and learn.

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Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 07-06-2013).]

quote Originally posted by mrfiero: I've been called worse. Yes, I've known about the date codes (last 4 digits) since sometime in the 90's. I can't remember who told me, but someone did and now I look for them everytime I buy tires.

I got a guy here who, even on $25 used tires, checks the numbers and wont sell anything past-date.....But I know what ya mean about blow-outs Ron, front right on my Firebird vert did it at about 130, I went across 3 lanes of traffic into the weigh scales in about 1/10th of a second and stopped shaking 3 days later....Arn, look after that car, it got me into and out of more trouble than I care to think about.

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 07-06-2013).]

When we sell a set of tires we have to record the vin numbers as part of the sales record. I can't even close out the ticket without this information. The last 4 digits of the DOT numbers represent the week and year of manufacture. Our records in the store go back 10 years and we can find a customer through their license plate number, phone number, last name, and repair order number if they have it. I make sure my service writers gather all this information, to not only protect us, but the customer as well. If the place one frequents for service does not do this I suggest one go somewhere else. If a customer's car tires are 5 years old or older I recommend that they replace them. Here in Florida tires very seldom reach this age without suffering from dry rot that can cause them to literally fall apart. I also don't recommend or sale used tires. The previous owners got rid of them for a reason and I consider them too much of a liability.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 07-06-2013).]

quote Originally posted by avengador1: When we sell a set of tires we have to record the vin numbers as part of the sales record. I can't even close out the ticket without this information. The last 4 digits of the DOT numbers represent the week and year of manufacture. Our records in the store go back 10 years and we can find a customer through their license plate number, phone number, last name, and repair order number if they have it. I make sure my service writers gather all this information, to not only protect us, but the customer as well. If the place one frequents for service does not do this I suggest one go somewhere else. If a customer's car tires are 5 years old or older I recommend that they replace them. Here in Florida tires very seldom reach this age without suffering from dry rot that can cause them to literally fall apart. I also don't recommend or sale used tires. The previous owners got rid of them for a reason and I consider them too much of a liability.

you found a business to buy, or your working for someone else? ether way good for you

But didn't someone already post this a few years back, forgive me if I am thinking of another forum or my mind is shot.

Steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: When we sell a set of tires we have to record the vin numbers as part of the sales record. I can't even close out the ticket without this information. The last 4 digits of the DOT numbers represent the week and year of manufacture. Our records in the store go back 10 years and we can find a customer through their license plate number, phone number, last name, and repair order number if they have it. I make sure my service writers gather all this information, to not only protect us, but the customer as well. If the place one frequents for service does not do this I suggest one go somewhere else. If a customer's car tires are 5 years old or older I recommend that they replace them. Here in Florida tires very seldom reach this age without suffering from dry rot that can cause them to literally fall apart. I also don't recommend or sale used tires. The previous owners got rid of them for a reason and I consider them too much of a liability.

Obviously, I've Been Dealing With An Organization With Significantly Less Integrity Than The One You Work For.. As I Said, Some Lessons Are Learned The Hard Way But, Those Lessons Are Never Forgotten.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 07-06-2013).]

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...100421-2-096468.html
This information needs to be public knowledge.

China wants to dump tires on US.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...110502-6-068145.html

quote Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...100421-2-096468.html This information needs to be public knowledge. China wants to dump tires on US. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...110502-6-068145.html

Dam my memory did work holey sh!t, now that's a first.

Steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

Good info, I had not known about that at all. I had never really given much info to the shelf life of a tire.

This agrees with the only quality info I ever got out of Motor Trend.
They said to replace ties every six to seven years regardless of tread.
(This was back in the Ford/Firestone era)

quote Originally posted by blackrams: So, you're going dark side. I went to the dark side last fall. I'm running an Austone Taxi Tire on the rear of my Valkyrie. Works very well for me and because it was made of a tougher compound it's barely showing any wear after 5K miles. I was running Metzlers but was only getting about 7500 to 8K miles per tire change. I'm hooked on it. But, you are right, one does not want to run old tires especially if you're pushing or stressing it in any way.

Yup. 90% of my riding is straight line and sweepers. My bike handles the technical turns pretty well (especially for a 900# luxobarge) but it's just not what I'm into these days. My E3s (radial) are already cupping and howling in curves and they just don't feel very stable, especially in the rain. I could probably get another couple thousand out of the rear (currently about 5500 miles on the bike) but I'm not enjoying it as much as I could. I'm leaning towards the Dunlop SP Winter Sport but I'm also considering either the Goodyear Eagle Ultra Grip or the Michelin Primacy Alpin. All are snow rated (slighly softer tread) and run flats and all are under $150. All 3 also have an 87-91 rating so I figure I should get about 15k-20k miles out of any of them.

Has anyone ever had a tire manufacturer stand behind their warranty?

I had a new tire fail (this was maybe 20 years ago) that caused vehicle fender damage. The tire was less than two weeks old. The company paid to have the tire remains shipped to them so they could "analyze" the failure. Sure enough, they found that the tire had been driven under inflated for a "considerable period of time". I contacted a lawyer who advised me not to file a law suit because the tire companies always win such disputes. The driver is supposed to check tire air pressure daily.

Thanks for the heads up! I will certainly look at those numbers when I buy tires again.

I run a set of very old tires on my light duty Ranger 4X4 that I bought new. Never thought much about it. Not in the sun much, mild climate, not stored on concrete. I am not going to spend a grand for a new set.

quote you found a business to buy, or your working for someone else? ether way good for you

I bought my business in September of last year. I have been beating the previous owner's sales figures every month I have been in business. It's a franchise store and I might be buying another in the near future.

There are 3 parts to a tire warranty, the manufacturer's supplied mileage warranty, the tire dealer's interpretation of the warranty, and a separate warranty typically called road hazard that is supplied by the tire dealer.

If a tire fails, as in in the case above, two weeks after installation it should be fairly obvious why it failed. If it was underinflated, it would have to have been run that way for some time. If it was two weeks, the dealer should be looking at why it was underinflated. Did they have an undertrained tech working on it? Did they use faulty equipment? Did the rim actually have a crack or leak in it? Was there a nail in it even? If it was the fault of the dealer, all you need to do is complain enough and they will replace it for you. It costs them far less to buy you a new tire that they have at their facility than it does to lose a customer.

If you had the road hazard warranty that should have covered the tire pretty much for anything except a blatant manufacturer defect. Even being run underinflated would warrant a road hazard warranty claim which would get you a tire pretty much for free.

And yes, manufacturers absolutely stand behind their products. I work with Michelin, Goodyear, Falken, BFG, Dunlop, Hankook, Cooper, Continental, Bridgestone and more and have never seen one of them just leave a customer high and dry. At the very least when we have the need to call the manufacturer (usually because the customer is obviously at fault, no rotation, no alignment, etc.) they will "goodwill" a percentage of the new tire regardless of what brand the customer goes with and give us, the dealer, an RGA number that we use to tag the tire that guarantees us reimbursement. That puts us as the dealer in a position to "go to bat" for the customer so to speak because we know well get our credit for it and its up to the manufactuer to interpret the warranty.

As for date codes, If you want more information you will ever need about tires then get a free subscription to Tire Review magazine put out by the tire and rubber manufacturers administration.

This is also a lesson on why going to those big tire retailers that keep records of transactions for many years pays off. My company has records going back 12+ years in most cases. Ive never had a customer come in with a purchase that I couldn't find in their history due to it being too old.

-Joe

quote Originally posted by joesfiero: This is also a lesson on why going to those big tire retailers that keep records of transactions for many years pays off. My company has records going back 12+ years in most cases. Ive never had a customer come in with a purchase that I couldn't find in their history due to it being too old. -Joe

Joe has a point and I can't argue with it. When it's a deal too good to be true, it most likely is. In this case, I've dealt with this same fellow a bunch. Didn't think there was a need to worry about his record keeping or his memory but, as is usually true, when the stuff hits the fans, those who aren't there to help clean up the mess were never worthy of your respect to begin with. As I said, some lessons you learn the hard way, some people you think you know, are not who or what they present themselves to be.

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Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 07-07-2013).]

When I was doing tires, our computer system required all the DOT numbers from each tire before we could close out the ticket. That way, we have it on record in case something like this situation were to happen.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Joe has a point and I can't argue with it. When it's a deal too good to be true, it most likely is. In this case, I've dealt with this same fellow a bunch. Didn't think there was a need to worry about his record keeping or his memory but, as is usually true, when the stuff hits the fans, those who aren't there to help clean up the mess were never worthy of your respect to begin with. As I said, some lessons you learn the hard way, some people you think you know, are not who or what they present themselves to be.

My experience was nearly identical to yours. I had previously purchased two sets of tires from the same guy and they performed flawlessly. The tires were made by Goodyear so I thought they were good quality. But at the time I wasn't aware of the date code so that may have been the problem. I do know that the small store I purchased the tires from washed their hands and said it was a manufacture defect. The manufacturer claimed the tire was not defective.

I'm glad there are honest stores like Joe's around but not all are like that.

quote Originally posted by spark1: Has anyone ever had a tire manufacturer stand behind their warranty? I had a new tire fail (this was maybe 20 years ago) that caused vehicle fender damage. The tire was less than two weeks old. The company paid to have the tire remains shipped to them so they could "analyze" the failure. Sure enough, they found that the tire had been driven under inflated for a "considerable period of time". I contacted a lawyer who advised me not to file a law suit because the tire companies always win such disputes. The driver is supposed to check tire air pressure daily.

Had a rear tire blowout on me back in the late 80's - Goodyear replaced it no questions asked (no damage to the car).

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: Had a rear tire blowout on me back in the late 80's - Goodyear replaced it no questions asked (no damage to the car).

Understood but, how old was the tire? I posted this thread as a warning to those purchasing new tires to check the DOT #. I didn't check it when my "new" tires were put on. Never even considered that my local dealer might be selling new but old stock tires. I can't prove it but, I know that is what occurred. My truck has the same tires that my dealer installed 2.5 years ago. Of course, he claims they aren't the same tire and has no memory of having to search to find a match pair as I clearly remember. Regardless, the whole point was to warn others to always check the last four digits of the DOT #. Those numbers represent the week and year the tire was produced. The tires on the back of my truck were at least 7, maybe eight years old when they were sold to me as new.

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Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

And I would certainly agree with you. Check your date codes when you buy tires, especially ESPECIALLY if you are buying them from a place that does low tire volume which means the tires that they do carry sit there longer.

And to be clear I wasn't stating that you should only buy tires from large retail chains. Just that they do keep records for a very long time and typically stand behind their products pretty well. However you should still double check their work too because that can happen anywhere.

-Joe

quote Originally posted by blackrams: I got a call before the appointment telling me that he (the tire dealer) was having a hard time finding a complete set. He had two but was not able to find the final two for the set. But would let me know when he had the two. After a couple of days, he called and gets me right in and I left happy with my new set of tires.

Good point for DOT number...
Sadly you didn't get first clue that something was wrong with you plan... Hard to find Tires often mean the tires were discontinued by makers.

Makers sold them to dealers. Most cases Dealers have no rules on selling old tires.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

quote Originally posted by avengador1: This might help some.

in his defense he did try to post it in the right thread.

Steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

This thread made me check out the rubber I just had put on my Mazda... Made week 16, 2013. So they sat for a month before I got them ordered and mounted.

I'm okay with that.

quote Originally posted by skuzzbomer: This thread made me check out the rubber I just had put on my Mazda... Made week 16, 2013. So they sat for a month before I got them ordered and mounted. I'm okay with that.

Sir, That Is Precisely The Reason For Thread This thread. Good For You.

I just purchased a set of four Hercules TOUR 4.0 PLUS 185/65/14

They are rated at 44psi max.
Factory suggestion for my car (1999 Ford Escort) is either 32 or 34 psi.

Understanding the ride will be more firm with less "give" do you all think 37psi is ok for these tires?

quote Originally posted by xquaid: I just purchased a set of four Hercules TOUR 4.0 PLUS 185/65/14 They are rated at 44psi max. Factory suggestion for my car (1999 Ford Escort) is either 32 or 34 psi. Understanding the ride will be more firm with less "give" do you all think 37psi is ok for these tires?

Run at factory recommended pressure or you will wear out the centers of your tires.

Edit: Here's a great thread on the subject: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...2/HTML/128146-2.html

[This message has been edited by BlackEmrald (edited 07-10-2013).]

Thank you BlackEmrald!

quote Originally posted by blackrams: When you buy new tires, do you ever look at the DOT number permanently embedded on the side wall.

Thank You for the info