Romney, his religion is a turn off if you have read the book of Mormon, especially the very beginning. Also, their history isn't very pretty, even with their own people.
But that pales in comparison to his business practices. His concern is what goes into his pocket, and anyone else can curl up and die.
I am voting Obama if Romney is the opposition to Obama...

quote Originally posted by blackrams: While others may see different issues with or for Romney, I fully agree, giving Obama a chance to nominate another Liberal to SCOTUS will most definately hasten our demise to third world status. Consider that vote carefully and do cast that vote. Other wise, you have no right to gripe about the outcome.

I still haven't gotten over "citizens united". I was sure that I would have to vote against Romney so that he couldn't nominate another conservative to the court and cement that decision. Now after the health care vote I see that Roberts is not solidly on the right. I can support some conservative opinions and some liberal opinions. I absolutely can't support "citizens united". That is my main issue, but I have no idea what Romney stands for.

I have no problems with Romney being the one to help the country out of the hole.
I think his business experience will tell him that most of the regulations that this administration put in place that are chocking business have to go.
Once he starts that process, those whole country can finally start breathing again.

I know that we need another Reagan and he ain't no Reagan.
And even if Reagan was brain dead as folks like RayB claim, then even a brain dead conservative actor can straighten out a bad economy in 3 1/2 years, where as Harvard Grad progressive with all of his facilities can't even begin to do it in four.
So Romney with all of his faults should still handle it fine.

And like others before, as the reality that he may be the one chosen sets in, he will evolve.

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Well I do believe that he was one of our greatest leaders, but few knew before he got elected how great he would become. Many on the left felt WWlll was just around the corner if he got elected. I just wanted to get Mr. Peanut out of there. I was the father of two and one on the way, he was born on Nov. 1, so I had major concerns. Plus we had just opened our first business. And today feels worse. if that is possible, but now I worry about the Grand-kids. And when the wall came down, more than a few wacky lefties still couldn't appreciate that their children no longer has to crawl under their desks and practice kissing their butts goodby. I have wondered if it was him that moved the nation to the right, or was the nation already headed down that path after realizing Carter and the left was a failure. Kind of like, was it Elvis who transformed the music, or was the country already moving in that direction, and he was the vehicle who showed up to take it there? Not that just anyone could have driven the bus in both cases.

I don't know that he necessarily moved the nation "right"... but he did make us proud to be American... even the California liberals who are often so busy being apologetic about being American... even THEY were proud.

Reagan won reelection with EVERY SINGLE STATE, except Minnesota... and he only lost THAT state by 0.02% of the vote... it was a landslide like we haven't seen in over 100 years.


Todd

quote Originally posted by crashyoung: Romney, his religion is a turn off if you have read the book of Mormon, especially the very beginning. Also, their history isn't very pretty, even with their own people. But that pales in comparison to his business practices. His concern is what goes into his pocket, and anyone else can curl up and die. I am voting Obama if Romney is the opposition to Obama...

So sitting in a hate-filled church for 24 years is any better.
And if Obama had any business sense, we might not even be discussing his opponent.

If Obama isn't running around yelling the chickens have come home to roost, why is it that Romney will be driven by his religion.

I remember all of the wackies that were saying all sorts of things about JFK's religion.

I am sure God bless you and God bless America will be the extent of it for him.
The left gets giggly when Obama says it, but I am sure they will gasp when Romney blurts it out.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Well, for one thing... he has SPECIFICALLY SAID that he intends to repeal Obamacare... so unless he's FLAT-OUT lying to us, I kind of doubt that he intends to keep it.

Funny thing about Romneycare - it was almost exactly like Obamacare, except it covered elective abortions (minus a $50 copay) and illegal immigrants.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Funny thing about Romneycare - it was almost exactly like Obamacare, except it covered elective abortions (minus a $50 copay) and illegal immigrants.

I know that's probably meant to make me go OMG... but I really don't have a problem with states doing their own thing, that's what federalism is all about anyway. With federalism, if a state does something stupid, people will leave the state for a better state... competition. Eventually, the other states DO realize the error of their ways, and they change things to make themselves more competitive in the national economy. Case-in-point... Wisconsin. They've done things that for many decades now have eroded away at their local economy. They made harsh changes, and now they're starting to improve.

If RomneyCare became a huge issue for the state, and all the illegal immigrants came there, and all the poor... and started sapping resources... you can be sure they would change it, or reform it.

They would have to...

When you do these things at the national level... then it becomes more serious because then... business, people (the Wealth)... they leave the country rather than just going to another state.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Funny thing about Romneycare - it was almost exactly like Obamacare, except it covered elective abortions (minus a $50 copay) and illegal immigrants.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Funny thing about Romneycare - it was almost exactly like Obamacare, except it covered elective abortions (minus a $50 copay) and illegal immigrants.

Do you see the difference between a state enacting it and the feds.
I you don't like what is Going on In MA, then you have 49 others to choose from.

And I will bet that he has some idea that it was a bad proposition, so he probably has "evolved", like Obama did on his stance concerning gay marriage.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: EDIT: I can only hope that in time.... the two of them will start to learn the ropes and be more constitutionalist rather than activist like they were in their earlier lives. Elena Kagen was even the president of teh ACLU if I remember.

no, you can't remember. Is it really that hard to check google before making yourself look uninformed. Ruth Bader Ginsberg was an ACLU lawyer, not Kagen. Maybe you should stick to sucking dick for money.

Kisses!

quote Originally posted by partfiero: So sitting in a hate-filled church for 24 years is any better. And if Obama had any business sense, we might not even be discussing his opponent. If Obama isn't running around yelling the chickens have come home to roost, why is it that Romney will be driven by his religion. I remember all of the wackies that were saying all sorts of things about JFK's religion. I am sure God bless you and God bless America will be the extent of it for him. The left gets giggly when Obama says it, but I am sure they will gasp when Romney blurts it out.

I don't fully understand what you are saying, but all I am saying is, I am picking the lesser of two evils...

quote Originally posted by Formula88: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

OMG! YES! I have been replying with that to the whole RomneyCare/ObamaCare thing for a long time here. Thank you Formula88!

I'd like to add one thing that I've posted before on the "religion" end of this.

LDS Articles of Faith.

Article 12: We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

If he truely beleives his religion, then I'm okay with that. If he doesn't, well then the idea that he will govern by his religion is mute isn't it?

In case anyone would like to read the rest of the Articles of Faith I'll post them for you. These are the core of the LDS religion.

quote 1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. 2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression. 3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. 4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. 5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof. 6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth. 7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth. 8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. 9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. 10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory. 11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. 12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. 13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

I bolded a few things in there that I thought kind of important.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 07-03-2012).]

Nearly all the one time front runners in the Republican primaries fell victim to their own past transgressions. It’s no wonder that only a Mormon was left standing.

I’m not a fan of his religion either but Mormons are great neighbors. And “no religious test” is required to run for office. Just as JFK didn’t make us all Catholics, I don’t believe Romney would impose his beliefs either. We should vote on issues and character, not on how someone does or doesn’t worship God.

[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 07-03-2012).]

quote Originally posted by spark1: Nearly all the one time front runners in the Republican primaries fell victim to their own past transgressions. It’s no wonder that only a Mormon was left standing. I’m not a fan of his religion either but Mormons are great neighbors. And “no religious test” is required to run for office. Just as JFK didn’t make us all Catholics, I don’t believe Romney would impose his beliefs either. We should vote on issues and character, not on how someone does or doesn’t worship God.

One of the biggest aholes I ever met in my life, and he had power over me at the time was a Mormon.
Even at 15 I knew it was HE was an ahole because he was an ahole, not because he was Mormon.

quote Originally posted by BlackEmrald: I think it is widely spread falsehoods and radical inaccuracies about his religion like this that are hurting his chances.

I HATE what obama stads for. I WILL vote for ANYONE other than him. That being said, YOU must face the truth about what mormanism is about. YOU sound like you are spreading falshoods?



Just one of many ways to explane mormanism.


The ball is in your court, state your case.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 07-04-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: I HATE what obama stads for. I WILL vote for ANYONE other than him. That being said, YOU must face the truth about what mormanism is about. YOU sound like you are spreading falshoods? Just one of many ways to explane mormanism. The ball is in your court, state your case.

So you draw on a cartoon made by Ed Decker a former LDS member who turned born again Christian and has since manipulated mormon beliefs in videos like that to try to defame them?

How about you go to Mormon.org and do a little reading to find out what they believe instead of a anti-propaganda peice produced by a former member with a axe to grind.

Does the video contain some truth? Sure, but it also contains untruths and misrepresentations of teachings and belief. Funny how propaganda does that, huh? You have to mix in enough truth to make the lies believable... [sarcasm] Oh wait, it's on Youtube so it must be true! [/sarcasm]

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 07-04-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Khw: So you draw on a cartoon made by Ed Decker a former LDS member who turned born again Christian and has since manipulated mormon beliefs in videos like that to try to defame them? How about you go to Mormon.org and do a little reading to find out what they believe instead of a anti-propaganda peice produced by a former member with a axe to grind. Does the video contain some truth? Sure, but it also contains untruths and misrepresentations of teachings and belief. Funny how propaganda does that, huh? You have to mix in enough truth to make the lies believable... [sarcasm] Oh wait, it's on Youtube so it must be true! [/sarcasm]

That is the typical response I get from mormans. Uniformed, sad realy, they dont even know what the begining morman church stood for/on. Must be a discruntled x- morman? OK, think what you want.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 07-04-2012).]

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Do you see the difference between a state enacting it and the feds. I you don't like what is Going on In MA, then you have 49 others to choose from. And I will bet that he has some idea that it was a bad proposition, so he probably has "evolved", like Obama did on his stance concerning gay marriage.

Is it really necessary to make a post this get this personal even in a political thread?
In my opinion this type of vitriol is over the line and uncalled for.

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: That is the typical response I get from mormans. Uniformed, sad realy, they dont even know what the begining morman church stood for/on. Must be a discruntled x- morman? OK, think what you want.

I really don't care what they beleive one way or another. I know many people of the Mormon faith and for the major part they are really good people. A quick search of a Catholic website (of all things) provided the producer of that video and the information about it being a anti morman propaganda peice. Like I said though in my post, does it contain some truth? Sure, you need it to make the lies in it believable. But whatever, you made the initial claim. If that is all you can bring to the table to back your claim up then I'll reply in kind to you. Think what you want.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 07-04-2012).]

quote Originally posted by gtjoe: Is it really necessary to make a post this get this personal even in a political thread? In my opinion this type of vitriol is over the line and uncalled for.

You're new to these here parts ain't 'cha ....

quote Originally posted by partfiero: One of the biggest aholes I ever met in my life, and he had power over me at the time was a Mormon. Even at 15 I knew it was HE was an ahole because he was an ahole, not because he was Mormon.

Yep, the distribution of a-holes is truly random and you can usually find one or more in any group. It's a generalization to say that all Mormons are "goody two shoes" but I think that is a general perception. For example, Howard Hughes would have only Mormons on his private security staff.

quote Originally posted by Khw: I really don't care what they beleive one way or another. I know many people of the Mormon faith and for the major part they are really good people. A quick search of a Catholic website (of all things) provided the producer of that video and the information about it being a anti morman propaganda peice. Like I said though in my post, does it contain some truth? Sure, you need it to make the lies in it believable. But whatever, you made the initial claim. If that is all you can bring to the table to back your claim up then I'll reply in kind to you. Think what you want.

TK, being a good person has nothing to do with what I commented on. I commented on the teachings of the morman church. Shure, LOTS of "good" people in there. That does not validate the teachings.
Prove the vidio wrong, and were it is wrong, please.

Ignorant Americans deserve Obama..Goodbye America...

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: TK, being a good person has nothing to do with what I commented on. I commented on the teachings of the morman church. Shure, LOTS of "good" people in there. That does not validate the teachings. Prove the vidio wrong, and were it is wrong, please.

Half my immediate family is LDS and obviously one side of the extended family. I have witnessed it for decades and I have only one word ...

Run

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 07-04-2012).]

I don't trust any religion because they all say "just believe". They don't ask you to think. That being said, the Mormons I've known were very good people as far as I could see. I still have no idea what Mitt is about.

quote Originally posted by dratts: I don't trust any religion because they all say "just believe". They don't ask you to think.

NOT so true. You may have your opinion on religion, but as far a Jesus is concered you must not of heard his teachings about the Bareans. They were comended for the reaserch they did.
If you could ask Dawin, even he will tell you that reserch is needed to believe in the crap he tought. Do the research, it cant hert.

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Do you see the difference between a state enacting it and the feds. I you don't like what is Going on In MA, then you have 49 others to choose from. And I will bet that he has some idea that it was a bad proposition, so he probably has "evolved", like Obama did on his stance concerning gay marriage.

States are not people, they don’t have rights; the immorality of violence is not zip code specific.

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Do you see the difference between a state enacting it and the feds. I you don't like what is Going on In MA, then you have 49 others to choose from.

??? It is that simple to uproot your whole family, job etc etc, and just move to another State??? With the current financial crisis, how easy would it be to just sell your house and go? Certainly sounds a rather 'glib' solution?

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: Because most people are just plain stupid. Stupid about politics, and stupid about what they want (and many other things for that matter). They know they don't want what we have, they know they don't what what we usually get, and when someone comes along who isn't like the others, they don't want him either. (Although the people who do want that person (Paul) are extremely energized by him) . So basically, because people are just too stupid to actually be able to decide FOR something, they only know to decide AGAINST something.

People that know what is going on and is for something may still not be thrilled with him as a choice. This will be yet another 'lesser of 2 evils' election. Why should i personally be enthusiastic over that?

Most people i know have quite a bit of knowledge and are not thrilled with what is going on ( both in who we get to choose from and the ludicrous campaigns built on hate and division ). Calling them stupid is pretty irresponsible, and only serves to pander to the class warfare type of push the current administrating is feeding the country.

[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 07-04-2012).]

quote Originally posted by WhiteDevil88: no, you can't remember. Is it really that hard to check google before making yourself look uninformed. Ruth Bader Ginsberg was an ACLU lawyer, not Kagen. Maybe you should stick to sucking dick for money. Kisses!

Wow... someone's grouchy. And not sure what you mean by "sticking to"... never done that in my life.

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: TK, being a good person has nothing to do with what I commented on. I commented on the teachings of the morman church. Shure, LOTS of "good" people in there. That does not validate the teachings. Prove the vidio wrong, and were it is wrong, please.

Prove the video right. These were your claims not mine. The burden of proof falls on the one who brings up charges.

Either way, like I said I really don't care what they believe. The Constitution grants us the right to Freedom of Religion.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

So I will defend their right to believe what they want, just as I would defend your right to believe what you want. What I find sad is from the LDS Articles of Faith:

quote 11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

So, they believe you have the right to worship whomever you want, however you want, and claim the right to be able to do the same. Sad how most other sects of Christianity can't seem to comprehend that, it's either their way or it's wrong. Do unto others, let he without sin cast the first stone and all that don't seem to apply. Wiccan, Baptist, Budhist, Methodist, Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah Witness, LDS, Jewish, Protestant, Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, Quakers, Scientology and any other religion out there has the right to beleive the Doctrine they want to. I won't condemn any of them for exercising their right and don't understand why so many of them persecute each other for doing so. Wasn't one of the reasons people came to America originally was to FLEE persecution?

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 07-04-2012).]

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I know that's probably meant to make me go OMG... but I really don't have a problem with states doing their own thing, that's what federalism is all about anyway. With federalism, if a state does something stupid, people will leave the state for a better state... competition. Eventually, the other states DO realize the error of their ways, and they change things to make themselves more competitive in the national economy. Case-in-point... Wisconsin. They've done things that for many decades now have eroded away at their local economy. They made harsh changes, and now they're starting to improve. If RomneyCare became a huge issue for the state, and all the illegal immigrants came there, and all the poor... and started sapping resources... you can be sure they would change it, or reform it. They would have to... When you do these things at the national level... then it becomes more serious because then... business, people (the Wealth)... they leave the country rather than just going to another state.

I agree, its how it should work. A state can do it if they want. But it does worry me that he going to try to enact another version at the federal level.

quote Originally posted by Khw: Prove the video right. These were your claims not mine. The burden of proof falls on the one who brings up charges. Either way, like I said I really don't care what they believe. The Constitution grants us the right to Freedom of Religion. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" So I will defend their right to believe what they want, just as I would defend your right to believe what you want. What I find sad is from the LDS Articles of Faith:

If I did you would not even bother to care. Why say anything at all if you dont care?

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: If I did you would not even bother to care. Why say anything at all if you dont care?

For the same reason I would say something if someone started in on Baptists or Jewish people. They have a right to beleive what they want! Just as you have a right to beleive what you want! Why is it up to you to decide that what they beleive is wrong? Are you the Judge? Are you supposed to be the Judge others according to your religion (assuming you have one)? Does not (assuming you have one) your religion teach live and let live? Or is that only live and let live so long as they beleive the same as you? Let people have the freedom the Constitution gave them is all I'm getting at. Why must you condemn them for something you (assuming you have a religion) expect others to not condemn you for?

quote Originally posted by Khw: Why is it up to you to decide that what they beleive is wrong? Are you the Judge? Are you supposed to be the Judge others according to your religion (assuming you have one)?

Ironically most religions are like that. Not all, but most. Even if you don't actively dislike or attack them, they don't get to be blessed by ones particular god(s) and go to heaven ( or whatever after life they subscribe to ) if they don't believe the same as you.

By default true believers are hypocritical judges.

Not that I have any say in this but claiming the Mormons are more wrong than the Christians is denial at it's best. Newer, yes. Less believable, no.

But I hope this isn't the reason.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 07-04-2012).]

The problems this country faces aren't going to be solved by who happens to be in the White House. The problem lies with our current do nothing, block everything, I vote my party line congress. Politics is the art of compromise and reaching a conciseness to do the most good for the most people possible. If the politicians we elect don't do the work for their constituents but for the political parties they belong to, then we will continue to get nothing out of Washington.

quote Originally posted by Vernon8360: The problems this country faces aren't going to be solved by who happens to be in the White House. The problem lies with our current do nothing, block everything, I vote my party line congress. Politics is the art of compromise and reaching a conciseness to do the most good for the most people possible. If the politicians we elect don't do the work for their constituents but for the political parties they belong to, then we will continue to get nothing out of Washington.

Not completely true. We will continue to get things from Wahington. We got ObamaCare didn't we? We got bailouts didn't we? We got Cash for Clunkers didn't we? The Government will continue to do what it wants to, citizens be dammed.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 07-04-2012).]