Talk about going out of your way just to piss people off. Or do you just hate everything about America, except the opportunities it offers you to fill your wallet?
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 06-18-2012).]
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11:12 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Apparently, dodging the draft is patriotic, if you're rich enough.
It worked for Bill Clinton.
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Clinton's political opponents charge that to avoid being drafted into the Vietnam War during his college years, he used the political influence of a U.S. Senator, who employed him as an aide.1 Col. Eugene Holmes, an Army officer who was involved in Clinton's case, issued a notarized statement during the 1992 presidential campaign: "I was informed by the draft board that it was of interest to Senator Fullbright's office that Bill Clinton, a Rhodes Scholar, should be admitted to the ROTC program... I believe that he purposely deceived me, using the possibility of joining the ROTC as a ploy to work with the draft board to delay his induction and get a new draft classification."2,3
1 "Bill Clinton's Draft Letter". Frontline. PBS. November 23, 1991. Retrieved August 30, 2011. 2 Morris, Roger (April 25, 1999). Partners in Power: The Clintons and Their America. Regnery Publishing. p. 100. ISBN 978-0-89526-302-5. Retrieved August 17, 2011. 3 Metcalf, Geoffrey M. (November 28, 2002). In the Arena: Geoff Metcalf Interviews With Doers of Deeds. iUniverse. p. 561. ISBN 978-0-595-25752-2. Retrieved August 17, 2011.
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11:24 PM
Jun 19th, 2012
yellowstone Member
Posts: 9299 From: Düsseldorf/Germany Registered: Jun 2003
So one needs to be an uncritical fan of John Wayne now to show love for the US? I didn't make the story up, it's pretty widely known IMO. And while I don't know where the Clinton story came from in that context (it was about John Wayne for president), yes, he did something similar. I just haven't heard Clinton waxing rhapsodic about aggressive patriotism, John Wayne style...
I don't hate the US, I was commenting on a specific post in an Internet forum, providing evidence supporting my point. Aren't you over-reacting a bit?
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Originally posted by Formula88:
Talk about going out of your way just to piss people off. Or do you just hate everything about America, except the opportunities it offers you to fill your wallet?
[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 06-19-2012).]
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07:51 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
So one needs to be an uncritical fan of John Wayne now to show love for the US? I didn't make the story up, it's pretty widely known IMO. And while I don't know where the Clinton story came from in that context (it was about John Wayne for president), yes, he did something similar. I just haven't heard Clinton waxing rhapsodic about aggressive patriotism, John Wayne style...
I don't hate the US, I was commenting on a specific post in an Internet forum, providing evidence supporting my point. Aren't you over-reacting a bit?
No, but you seem to be going out of your way to find things to complain about the US. You've had a Euro-chip on your shoulder for a while now. I'm not the only one to notice it.
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08:22 AM
yellowstone Member
Posts: 9299 From: Düsseldorf/Germany Registered: Jun 2003
No, but you seem to be going out of your way to find things to complain about the US. You've had a Euro-chip on your shoulder for a while now. I'm not the only one to notice it.
Please explain just how mentioning that John Wayne didn't go to war (like other well-known actors at the time) in spite of being really big on patriotism is complaining about the US.
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08:36 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Please explain just how mentioning that John Wayne didn't go to war (like other well-known actors at the time) in spite of being really big on patriotism is complaining about the US.
"Mentioning" someone didn't go to war and calling someone a "draft dodger" aren't quite the same thing. You seem to have a strong enough command of the English language to know that.
Are you so miserable here that you feel the need to constantly lash out? (Either in the U.S. or on PFF)
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09:12 AM
yellowstone Member
Posts: 9299 From: Düsseldorf/Germany Registered: Jun 2003
Are you so miserable here that you feel the need to constantly lash out? (Either in the U.S. or on PFF)
No. Maybe I'm just allergic to hyper-nationalists. I read up a little on John Wayne and what's also interesting (apart from the draft issue) that he exclusively got married to foreigners (Peru, Panama, Mexico) and that he was a personal friend of the very Progressive (capital P) Panamanian leader Omar Torrijos Herrera. Seems like his nationalism/conservatism had its boundaries (or that he was very tolerant, which would be a good thing).
I'd say that the legend is much more than the man (as it's usual with legends).
[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 06-19-2012).]
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09:28 AM
PFF
System Bot
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
No. Maybe I'm just allergic to hyper-nationalists. I read up a little on John Wayne and what's also interesting (apart from the draft issue) that he exclusively got married to foreigners (Peru, Panama, Mexico) and that he was a personal friend of the very Progressive (capital P) Panamanian leader Omar Torrijos Herrera. Seems like his nationalism/conservatism had its boundaries (or that he was very tolerant, which would be a good thing).
I'd say that the legend is much more than the man (as it's usual with legends).
So one line, "John Wayne for President," was enough of an irritant of your hyper-nationalist allergy to require rebuttal? There was no mention of his patriotism, real or imagined. The mere mention of his name was enough.
You made your "draft dodger" comment with the intent to illicit a reaction. You got one. Mission Accomplished.
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09:56 AM
yellowstone Member
Posts: 9299 From: Düsseldorf/Germany Registered: Jun 2003
well, why not just be honest about it. GWB, bill clinton and john wayne may all belong on the same list, and there are plenty more public figures, probably enough for a thread of their own, where we can argue that one was an unpatriotic coward while the other guy who did the same thing as a real american.
could be kind of fun to watch.
re john wayne: my next door neighbor in the early 80s was a marine in ww2, paralyzed from the waist down by a japanese machine gun on iwo jima. i visited him a lot at the VA hospital. he loathed john wayne. rightly or not, he felt that JW got all the credit, took none of the risks, and he resented it.
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12:07 PM
J-Holland Member
Posts: 708 From: Norman, OK USA Registered: Nov 2010
While I can admit that I enjoy the "Duke's" movies, I can understand why wounded Marines may not have liked him. However, before you start cutting the man down, check your facts a little. The truth might be somewhat different than what one sees at first glance.
But if we have to have another actor for President, the best choices would have to have been Jimmy Stewart.
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12:23 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
1 "Bill Clinton's Draft Letter". Frontline. PBS. November 23, 1991. Retrieved August 30, 2011. 2 Morris, Roger (April 25, 1999). Partners in Power: The Clintons and Their America. Regnery Publishing. p. 100. ISBN 978-0-89526-302-5. Retrieved August 17, 2011. 3 Metcalf, Geoffrey M. (November 28, 2002). In the Arena: Geoff Metcalf Interviews With Doers of Deeds. iUniverse. p. 561. ISBN 978-0-595-25752-2. Retrieved August 17, 2011.
Not to mention Clinton ACTUALLY did dodge the draft while Bush 2 served his country in the National Guard protecting our borders at a time of war.
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12:42 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Bob Hope was the only person to be named an "Honorary Vet" by an act of Congress....he never actually served either.
Now, before you get your panties in a bunch, I respected Hope for his work (still do actually) and even played on a couple of his USO tours with Sunday's Child in the late 70's (a girl group Sammy Davis, Jr was managing at the time.)
Anyway.....I nominate Humphrey Bogart for President...if we're going "Hollywood."
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12:40 PM
yellowstone Member
Posts: 9299 From: Düsseldorf/Germany Registered: Jun 2003
He happens to be one of only 71 people in history to be named an honorary Marine....oops
Not to lessen the honor, but I'll bet he wasn't given an honorary promotion, twice, like Jim Nabors. I think he's the only honorary Marine ever to receive two promotions. He's an honorary Corporal. http://www.jimnabors.com/promotion3.html
Not to lessen the honor, but I'll bet he wasn't given an honorary promotion, twice, like Jim Nabors. I think he's the only honorary Marine ever to receive two promotions. He's an honorary Corporal. http://www.jimnabors.com/promotion3.html
I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere, but damned if I can find it. Since the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy was in effect from 1993 - 2011 and Nabors' honors were in 2001 and 2007, maybe you meant "during" Don't Ask, Don't Tell?
Let me guess, you could care less, right?
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02:36 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
I would have to really think on it. Offhand I cant think of anyone that is for / against everything I am. It would def be someone in the 45-55 age range. I dont want a youngster or someone already elderly in charge. Both already have their own problems and limitations. Definately someone who has worked for pay in an executive job, at least minimal experience in a public office, and hopefully with some military service. The one there now has none of those requirements. Hes got worthless degrees in fields hes had nothing to do with. What hes got thats usefull is like me having a degree in fashion merchandising.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 06-20-2012).]
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07:47 PM
Uaana Member
Posts: 6570 From: Robbinsdale MN US Registered: Dec 1999
I know he'd never get elected.. but looking at the resume'..
Bill Gates.. Gets business, Demands results, and once all is running like honey gives like a Sugar Daddy with an expense account.
There are other reasons.. He doesn't want the job.. extra point..
Thinking a little more.. might be a good "compromise" President.. Libs hate him because .. well he's PC and they're MAC.. Has been ruthless in his business dealings and running of his company. Con's hate him because he's a "Give to those who need" and then give a little more.. and higher taxes are no big deal..
But he'd never get elected.. he's the nerd everyone picked on in H.S. and college, and has the charisma of an IRS accountant. Too bad we can't get the best guy instead of the guy with the political ambition and deep pocket sponsors..
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08:14 PM
Jun 22nd, 2012
yellowstone Member
Posts: 9299 From: Düsseldorf/Germany Registered: Jun 2003
But he'd never get elected.. he's the nerd everyone picked on in H.S. and college, and has the charisma of an IRS accountant. Too bad we can't get the best guy instead of the guy with the political ambition and deep pocket sponsors..
Bill Gates would just be his own Super PAC... but he doesn't have sufficiently good hair and white teeth.
Bill Gates would just be his own Super PAC... but he doesn't have sufficiently good hair and white teeth.
Oh sheesh, you don't really think we vote for someone based solely on their hair and teeth do you? I mean, we also base our votes on how they schmooze us, and their clothing.
Brad
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08:18 PM
yellowstone Member
Posts: 9299 From: Düsseldorf/Germany Registered: Jun 2003
Oh sheesh, you don't really think we vote for someone based solely on their hair and teeth do you? I mean, we also base our votes on how they schmooze us, and their clothing.
Oh sheesh, you don't really think we vote for someone based solely on their hair and teeth do you? I mean, we also base our votes on how they schmooze us, and their clothing.
Brad
I dunno, I could NOT vote for someone because of their hair and teeth. Bad hair, Bad teeth = Bad habits/judgement. Am I wrong?
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12:23 PM
lurker Member
Posts: 12351 From: salisbury nc usa Registered: Feb 2002
Abolish the presidency. Congress too, too many people fight and take sides when they're really all the same. Besides, electing representatives is so 1789, I bet we can run a direct democracy by just having people vote on FB.
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04:41 PM
dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
Originally posted by Tinton: Abolish the presidency. Congress too, too many people fight and take sides when they're really all the same. Besides, electing representatives is so 1789, I bet we can run a direct democracy by just having people vote on FB.
i'm hoping this is a joke. there's this thing called the constitution, which, while imperfect, is probably as close as anyone's going to get anytime soon.
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Originally posted by dratts: I voted for Barry Commoner (citizens party) in 1980. Anyone else ever hear of him?
yes, i remember the name. feelin' old now, thanks.
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07:28 PM
NoMoreRicers Member
Posts: 2192 From: Spokane, WA Registered: Mar 2009
Abolish the presidency. Congress too, too many people fight and take sides when they're really all the same. Besides, electing representatives is so 1789, I bet we can run a direct democracy by just having people vote on FB.
Great idea. We all know how moral and just the majority of people are.
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09:32 PM
Jun 30th, 2012
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
I voted for Barry Commoner (citizens party) in 1980. Anyone else ever hear of him?
I knew his running mate, La Donna Harris, but I did note vote for them.
Whom do I prefer for President? None of the likely choices. In general, the skill set required for being elected President is inconsistent with the skill set required for actually being an effective President.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 06-30-2012).]
