Lately i've been going through a ton of life changes. I really need to type these out and see where i stand. Been losing sleep and feel a severe depression coming on. Maybe i'm just losing it. so.. here goes nothing....

For the past 8 years or so i've been trying to become a "better man". Previously i was a drunk, drug addicted a-hole who hated everybody and everything. I feel i was successful in turning myself around. But now i'm thinking i might be sinking back. I was able to kick the drugs and alcohol with the exception of drinking socially two times or less a year. This still stands. I'm still "sober". Only vise is cigarettes but i'm working on that too.

Lately, i'm starting to have a bad outlook on people in general all over again and i think i know how this was sparked. Even starting to crave drinking again. Daily, the drugs sound like a fantastic idea to pick up again. Don't worry, i know better. I've got a wife and two kids to think about so i doubt i'll go down that road again but it's ohhhh soooo tempting!

So i started re-evaluating my life as it is now. Why am i broke when i have a good job? Have i achieved the "good man" title yet? Why is it with all the good i do rarely ever comes back to me? Should i even bother anymore?

I noticed a few "friends" of mine were using me. I saved them thousands by fixing their truck's/car's after they crashed it, for free, fixed their computers and even bought parts only to get shafted. Never once offered a payment. One couple i saved $2000+ in less then a year. The same couple's wife was my kids baby sitter and the husband bought my 86 gt to get me out of debt for $1000 with a payback agreement. He gave me his word he would fix whatever damage he may do to the car or i don't have to pay. A few months later he blew the motor in my fiero. The husband could only say "i'm not fixing it" "you can". so i decided to let it go to Hardpact on PFF since he agreed not to part it out. Very sentimental car for me. (Cant thank Hardpact enough for getting the car out of there before it became lost. better given away then in the junk heap). BOT: I tried getting the husband to sign a bill of sale for Hardpact and he said "I'm not signing anything, he has the car and the title, that's all he needs" I tried explaining why but he was being a d**k about it. Said i have not paid him the full $1000 yet so NO! Ok... i let that go. Still intending on paying in full just to keep the peace. So... my wife was out of work this month due to something called MRSA and she had the kids all month. As soon as i told his wife i'm not paying since she didn't have the kids at all this month she flipped out on me. Told me if i don't pay the full monthly amount for the month she and her husband are going to throw out my tools that have been stored there. I offered to pay $50 for being "on call" for the month but nooo ... all or nothing i guess. So i told them fine... toss it. then you'll never see another penny from me. They both then proceeded to try and call me a piece of crap. seriously? WTF? Many times over the course of our "friendship" i have bailed them out with fixing whatever needed fixing with never charging a dime. When i figured the labor costs of everything after our fight, even deducting the $750 still owed for the fiero loan. They owe me $4680 in labor costs alone. Not putting in cigarette cost from them bumming off me or parts i've bought for them. I do not see this as a loss other then my car being gone. But i did however try to rethink this whole thing wondering "am i the a-hole here?".

After this event i decided to call up every person who i've bent over backwards for and that has conveniently been too busy or had excuses when i needed help. Just to say "enough is enough, don't ever call me again. I'm done being used. Lose my number!". Only had one person out of 15 try and stop me and ask WTF is going on and apologetic, swearing to change. eh... we shall see.

This will be the first year in a long time i have not donated to any charity for christmas because well... i couldn't afford to. If it weren't for Carver1 with the Secret Santa gift and Fierogirls-mom's extremely kind donation to me, my kids wouldn't have had a christmas because of way too many bad things happening at once to me.

I try to help who i can when i can with whatever i can do. I guess it's me trying to make up for being an alcoholic, drug addicted a-hole for so many years. I'm the guy who will stop in the freezing rain to help somebody i don't know on the side of the road just because. But now i'm starting to doubt i'm on the right path. Starting to think i shouldn't even bother with random people. Maybe, just maybe if i start treating others as i'm treated i'll get the freebies and be able to make the holidays happen for my kids every year without having to be a failure as a father. Maybe i should become the a-hole i once was but without the drugs. I just don't know anymore. Shouldn't be questioning my worth right now as i await my kids finding what santa (carver1 & fierogirls-mom) put under the tree for them.

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"Remember: amateurs built the ark ....
professionals built the Titanic."

quote timgray Because that is all a corvette is good for, parts for the fiero..

Part of the Rallaster "Overhaulin" project. 6/4/2011
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/085568.html

Sorry to hear about the troubles, man. The first thing I think you really need to take to heart, though, is that you can't help anyone to your own detriment. Helping others is great, whether they appreciate it or not, but never do so to the point you start doing harm to yourself, financially or emotionally. Any "friend" who would use you like that isn't a friend. I've had some of what I call "foul weather friends" in the past. They only seem to know my number when crap hits the fan and the need something, but you can bet I'm #1 on their speed dial then. I've had to let go of them over the years. Friendship has to work both ways and there has to be respect.

As for being a good man - you're already there. You're trying to better yourself. That's what a man does - take stock of his situation and try to make the best out of it and improve where he can. Just remember that any help you give, whether it's to a friend or stranger, is a gift given freely with no expectation of return. Never give more of yourself (time, money, whatever) than you can part with. You have to take care of yourself first or you're no good to anyone else.

Just spend time with your kids for Christmas. That's more valuable to them than any present. They may not think so when they're young, but they will soon enough.

Thank you for the response. I'm starting to learn people for the most part are greedy and unworthy of the help given. It's just so hard to find the ones that are worth helping it's almost not worth the effort.

Its not that i expect anything as a return. But if they know i'm hurting and turn their back. Or they don't pay it forward. there is no excuse for that.

I actually liked helping people out, up until this crap anyway. it's kind of a hobby i guess. I love cars and like fixing computers and other electronics. It's fun and a challenge.

quote Originally posted by Finally_Mine_86_GT: I actually liked helping people out, up until this crap anyway. it's kind of a hobby i guess. I love cars and like fixing computers and other electronics. It's fun and a challenge.

This sounds all too familiar.

The problem is that many people convince themselves that THEY are doing YOU a favor by allowing you to help them out. Seriously.

I've been down this road as well. A lot of us have. It's not all that uncommon. And yes, it stings a bit when you realize you've been taken advantage of.

At some point you've just got to decide not to be used and abused. (Sounds like you've already reached that point.) It doesn't mean you necessarily need to dismiss the entire planet, but you do need to become much more selective with whom you decide to give a helping hand. Not everyone is worthy of your assistance.

Learn how to say "No", as in... "No, I'm not able to do that for you."

A few years ago I found myself in a similar situation helping on other people's projects to the exclusion of what I need to do for myself. I was running myself ragged trying to help them. The thing that really struck home about being used was when I needed a hand with a ten minute job and the 'friend' I had just saved $1000 and spent 7 hours repairing their car the day before told me they couldn't be bothered and then wanted cash for helping. I have since backed away from the users and worked to surround myself with people I am happy to help because I know they will not hesitate to help me - basically true friends not leeches. I'm way more selective of my friends and the time spent away from things I want to do. Time is your one irreplaceable asset so be frugal and certain it is spent and not wasted.

Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:

“Do not confuse "duty" with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different. Duty is a debt you owe to yourself to fulfill obligations you have assumed voluntarily. Paying that debt can entail anything from years of patient work to instant willingness to die. Difficult it may be, but the reward is self-respect.
But there is no reward at all for doing what other people expect of you, and to do so is not merely difficult, but impossible. It is easier to deal with a footpad than it is with the leech who wants "just a few minutes of your time, please—this won't take long." Time is your total capital, and the minutes of your life are painfully few. If you allow yourself to fall into the vice of agreeing to such requests, they quickly snowball to the point where these parasites will use up 100 percent of your time—and squawk for more!
So learn to say No—and to be rude about it when necessary. Otherwise you will not have time to carry out your duty, or to do your own work, and certainly no time for love and happiness. The termites will nibble away your life and leave none of it for you.
(This rule does not mean that you must not do a favor for a friend, or even a stranger. But let the choice be yours. Don't do it because it is "expected" of you.)”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

Dave, pardon my quote/credo, but it only seems fitting here:

quote 6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic vampires! Though the concept of "psychic vampirism" had existed beforehand, it was LaVey who first coined this specific term. In short, a psychic vampire is someone who drains another person of their vital energy. This can be interpreted both objectively and metaphysically. In the objective sense, a psychic vampire is essentially a parasite who takes from others, but gives nothing in exchange. For example, someone who constantly "borrows" money, but never pays anyone back, or someone who puts down another in order to make themselves feel better. A "friend" who contributes nothing to the "friendship," for instance, would be a classic case of psychic vampirism, i.e. only calling upon their "friend" when they need to vent some frustration or angst. In the metaphysical sense, a psychic vampire is believed to literally rob others of their life energy. This phenomenon has been described by others, most notably by Dion Fortune in her occult classic, Psychic Self-Defense. An example of this type of psychic vampire is a person who when others are around him, inevitably feel tired or fatigued and so forth. However, in The Satanic Bible, LaVey discusses psychic vampirism in very objective terms and devotes an entire chapter discussing exactly how such parasitic individuals and organizations operate, and how and why to avoid them at all costs.

(sourced from www.antonlavey.org)

Edit: This also applies in a sense:

quote "A Primer For Fledgling Misanthropologists" In "The Satanic Scriptures" by Peter Gilmore One leech is clearly not a match for our solider. [...] Holding his gun overhead, he proceeds through the neck-deep ooze. Once he emerges and then soon stumbles in a weakened condition, he begins to strip his clothes from his body and finds that thousands of tenacious mouths are now draining him of his very life's blood. He tears them from himself, stomping them to death in his fury, but the wounds continue to bleed because of the anti-coagulant employed by the small feasters. He notes, as his consciousness fades, that he is now too weak to rip the rest of them from himself. He has been vanquished. Groups of humans can be like these leeches in having the ability to overwhelm what looks like to be a superior aggressor.”

[This message has been edited by Xerces_Blackthorne (edited 12-25-2011).]

Guess im just starting to see the truth about people.
Pretty bad when the only decent people ive found are all on a car forum.

No good deed goes unpunished.

Dave, I don't have the answers to everything, but I do know why you're always broke even though you have a good job... YOU LIVE IN NEW YORK!


----------------------------------------------but seriously---------------------------------------------------
As far as being used and abused, you really need to take stock of those you help. I don't help anyone, even friends, without some sort of "give and take". As far as your problem with your friends using you, attempt to explain the situation to them one more time and if they still don't get it, forget em. You have enough going on in your life without them, move on. You deserve better.

Friendship goes both ways. More than once I have had the realization that a friend wasn't a friend. You may have to be a bit more selective. There will always be people who are more than willing to take advantage of you and maybe in these tough times there are more of them. I know the pleasure of helping someone and you sound like you enjoy that too. You only have so much of yourself to give though, so a bit more selective is a good idea. As far as the booze and drugs go, I know that it is tempting when you feel so down. Yes they will make you feel better and that is the temptation, but you already know the downside so just remind yourself when you're so down that you can't see up. Hang in there and dump the users. There are still lots of good people out there and you deserve them.

Dave,

What a scary read! I am telling you, MY FRIEND, that we are frickin' dopplegangers. Drugs. Alchohol. Partying. The "good man" statement. We have knocked ourselves on the head way too many times. Even our time frame on destructive behavior is hand in hand. The crap that we have been through this past year is ironic.

NEVER GIVE UP! Who are we impressing when we cave? Who is hurt the most when we don't handle our responsibilites? What is lost if we take that bump too fast? I'll tell you, everyone around us. At times it may seem like everyone is against us. We seem to do a lot for others, only to get our hand bit. And sometimes mangled to the wrist. It hurts, and there definately comes a time when we need to take care of "our own" before we can take care of others. The "others" will talk under their breath. They will show physical dissapointment on their faces. They will have sandy vaginas. Well, too damn bad. Let the itch grow. Let them muster in hate.

We have families. Those families NEED to come first. We know this, and still extend our hands, The worst feeling is when we do the right thing, and get knocked for it. I have been here in Spokane for 5 plus years now, and have found this town to be mostly handout, never been there, do EVERYTHING for me fools. I absolutely hate that. But, my family needs me. I can't walk around pissed. (Which I am easily capable of. ) It will affect my son as he grows. (You also would not believe just how many actually think that my son is ONLY Amy's! ) I cannot be a bad Dad. I will not allow that to happen. It is me that needs this boy to grow up in my standards. Funny, but those standards don't fit several here. FAQ them! I know that Benjamin is happy, healthy, smart, strong, and going to be a kind man as he grows. He will not walk through life with rose colored glasses. He will know more than most in his class. I will make sure of this. <small rant>

Anyway, seriously, don't let others stop you from a good life. It is not their choice. It is yours.

(I write this as I begin to make Christmas dinner for at least 8 folks that have showed their distain for me. All members of Amy's family. This is not about them. It is about showing Benjamin that Christmas exists. I damn near had a panic attack yesterday thinking about the free food that I won't even get thanked for. But, once again, it is not about them. They are only a shadow of what Benjamin will ever be. That makes it worth it for this guy. )

Peace Brother, and Merry Christmas from my family, to yours,

Tony, Amy, & Benjamin

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A question: Are the people taking advantage of you the same ones you first met when you were taking drugs and drinking?

An observation: You are a good person. I can see that through the wires. Stop trying to make up for your mistakes. Accept forgiveness. Most of all, forgive yourself.

You can't help other people enough to make up for who you think you were. If you're religious, it's called "You can't get to heaven through good works." So stop trying to make up for things you think you did by helping people you didn't do them to. Karma don't work quite like that. If you've made the effort to clear your slate with those you have offended, good. Accept their forgivness as payment in full. anything less insults them again. If there is no forgiveness, you've done your part.

Now forgive yourself, and find a better class of friends.

Rallaster: you aint kidding! Lol
Tony: im starting to get that impression as well. Hence why ive been trying to get a flight out you way. One of these days.

Zeb: nope. Met them all after my down time. Those I did harm ive made amends for already. Its never really been about forgiveness. More like trying to be the opposite of what I once was. It hasnt been an easy thing to do and their comments made me feel like a zebra couldnt change his stripes. Im sure I have cause doing anything less feels wrong.

There's no need for you to burn any bridges. Next time these people want your help, and it is going to cost you some expense, tell them that you will write up a contract explaning what you will do for them and how much you expect to be paid for your services. It's one thing to help others out of the kindness of your heart, it's another thing if they are constantly taking advantage of you and giving you nothing in return.
As an example of good, I have an old friend of mine (from New York) who's father (now deceased) would recruit us to help him make wine and sausage. When these were ready to be consumed he always made sure that we got a share of the finished product. We enjoyed the time, stories, and work we shared with him and even learned some things from the work done.
Don't let the bad friends get you down.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 12-25-2011).]

You have PM

Ky, good points. Honestly I loved doing the build at bobby's! Actually renewed some of the lost faith in people I had. If I could afford to make the trip I would go for the joel project at whodeanies.

Dave, you know how I am on this subject. We've experienced similar feelings, though you've definitely sacrificed more effort, time, and money on those who didn't deserve it- on top of that you have a family.

I'm in the same boat, I just don't know what to do anymore. There are just so many aspects of my life that have been so miserable especially in recent months that I don't know how I still have the strength to keep going ever day and not just let myself go. Having a positive outlook is one thing, which I do my best to have- but even when trying to be grateful for the good things in life something always manages happen that screws it all up. I'm trying to take what happened friday and look at it as a good thing, maybe I can somehow change my situation if I can come into some $$$ from insurance and trying to sue the guy.

I just have no more faith in people, I assume that everyone will screw me over every chance they get.. But somehow I still try to help whenever I can, whether its for a "friend" or a stranger.

The sad thing is that I always feel better when I come onto this forum. Its the only place where I've seen people do things out of the kindness of their hearts, it inspires me to be a better person despite everything thats wrong in my life. This place gives me hope that good people still exist.

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: The sad thing is that I always feel better when I come onto this forum. Its the only place where I've seen people do things out of the kindness of their hearts, it inspires me to be a better person despite everything thats wrong in my life. This place gives me hope that good people still exist.

Even this forum, this forum that "inspires" you and gives you hope that "good people still exist" has its share of dinks. It's just like the real world in that sense. There are good people and bad people here. People that you'd welcome into your home and people who would be best to avoid. Keep that in mind when you're dealing with people outside of this forum. There are plenty of good people out there. It's just a matter of allowing them to find you.

quote Originally posted by Finally_Mine_86_GT: ...I've got a wife and two kids to think about...

These are the only words that I remembered after reading your rant.

Looks to me like you need a new set of friends.

Keep in mind that humans are lazy and selfish by nature. While helping people may make you feel good about yourself, remember that they will not always be inclined to return the favor. Actually, some people see a "good Samaritan" as fool to be played. The people you described seem to be that type.

I also think that to some extent, you set yourself up for this. For example, selling the Fiero to the guy to help pay your bills, under the premise that he'd eventually sell it back in the same condition. This type of agreement almost always ends in disaster... for various reasons. Also, you're letting these same people hold your tools hostage? Now they can extort money from you.

My suggestion: Get your tools back ASAP, and get another babysitter. Get yourself "disentangled" from these losers, and move on.

And like you said, you have a wife and kids to think about. They come first, not your circle of fair-weather friends. Make some money, pay the bills, and put food on the table. If, after all that, you still have some time to donate to your "friends", THEN you can help them out. But if times are hard for you, then your "friends" will just have to wait (or pay you up-front)... because you have a family to take care of. If your "friends" can't understand or appreciate that, they can go pound sand.

Sorry to be so blunt. That's just how I see things. I wish you the best of luck.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 12-25-2011).]

I'm on the tablet, so don't want to type out a long response. I just have a couple of comments to toss out.

You might give some thought to the possibility that you may be a "dry drunk". Essentially that is an alcoholic or druggies who doesn't use. The substance abuse can stop, but the personalty characteristics that cause the addiction still exist. They wont go away on their own. If you think its possible (only you can decide that for you) then maybe check out a couple of aa or NA meetings. 12 step programs have saved a lot of lives including some in my direct family. While you need to decide for yourself if this is all possible, I can tell you that the attitudes you describe are very familiar to me.

The other thing is to decide if you do things as a favor, expecting repayment, or as a gift. I know the common attitude is that I do you a favor and you owe me. But that's not really a favor, its a loan. I know the decent thing for people to do is to recognize the generosity extended to them, and be willing to share of themselves when it's needed. But many people don't get it, they're selfish and self centered. Those are the kind of people you are dealing with. Now, referring back to my first comment I'll tell you that the kind of people you find yourself associating with are a result of the life you lead. Its not unreasonable to hope (notice I didn't say EXPECT) that those whom you help out would be willing to reciprocate, but unless you specifically state that you expect that, then you really can't be upset by it. And if you find that you are, then it may be time for new friends, some who will appreciate you, and will be greatful for your kindness, and are like you in their willingness to give of themselves.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Even this forum, this forum that "inspires" you and gives you hope that "good people still exist" has its share of dinks. It's just like the real world in that sense. There are good people and bad people here. People that you'd welcome into your home and people who would be best to avoid. Keep that in mind when you're dealing with people outside of this forum. There are plenty of good people out there. It's just a matter of allowing them to find you.

I know and I've seen quite a few of them, but for the most part the good has overshadowed the bad. Theres just something about "strangers" from the internet coming together to help another one another. Of course not all of us are strangers to one another, I'm not sure how to explain it but theres just something that makes it special because people can choose to say they'd like to help- on PFF they jump to into action with good intentions.

I wish I knew why I always end up with people around me who extort me for my skills, time, and money.

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: Theres just something about "strangers" from the internet coming together to help another one another....theres just something that makes it special because people can choose to say they'd like to help

Sure, and in the world outside of this forum, you can also choose not to help whenever it doesn't suit you.

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: I wish I knew why I always end up with people around me who extort me for my skills, time, and money.

Believe me, you're not the only one who's cursed with this predicament. It's a universal problem. Leeches come out of the woodwork if/when they think they can latch onto someone who's a soft touch. I spent several years catering to my girlfriend's birth father's whims (long story), but I finally said the hell with it, and told him directly that he was now on his own. Among other things, I was no longer going to spend hours and hours and hours fixing his computer screwups and re-setting up his computers for video editing everytime he upgraded his equipment. This caused quite a rift between myself and him (and his wife), but do I regret it? Not a chance!!! My girlfriend understands the situation (and agrees with me), and I'm so happy not to have some self-centered narcissist endlessly/thanklessly sponging my time and skills any longer.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 12-25-2011).]

Sheesh.....I'm glad that I only have on good friend. Best friends....heck, you could call us brothers. We don't cut eachother any slack or pull punches when it comes to issues we sometimes go through. We expect that outa eachother too. Tell it like it is. As for moochin' off of each other......nah, we trade favors.......and not the kind some of you pervs are thinkin' either.

Help only who you Can, When your truly can, and only if you wish to and for the right reasons. Otherwise, to thine own self be true.

There are lots of people, some even here, who will take every advantage if they can find a way.

As sad as this sounds I have absolutely no friends. I have tons of acquaintances and that is the way I like it. There is a huge difference in the two. If they disappear one day....oh well. No strings attached. It has worked very well for me all my life.

I do hope everything works out for you.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 12-25-2011).]

Thanks guys. Guess it's just a revelation thing and i shouldn't be too worried about it. All this time i started to think somehow i was at fault. i see now it's a common occurrence with people. Shame really.

I only have two "best friends" neither of those two did i even think i had to call and ream out. When crap hits the fan they are there for me when they can be.

I will rebuild. I will own another fiero! Last but not least i will not falter from my fatherly responsibilities. After i get myself back where i need to be i'll be looking for another overhaul... that was way too much fun not to do it again.

quote Originally posted by kyunderdawg: ...nah, we trade favors........

Don't worry, I would still invite you in. I would just leave the lights on.

Tony

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Don't worry, I would still invite you in. I would just leave the lights on. Tony

With my looks, Tony, you'd need a black light. I hear that those kind of lights improve things.

[This message has been edited by kyunderdawg (edited 12-25-2011).]

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: As sad as this sounds I have absolutely no friends. I have tons of acquaintances and that is the way I like it. There is a huge difference in the two. If they disappear one day....oh well. No strings attached. It has worked very well for me all my life. I do hope everything works out for you.

I don't think I've ever met anyone with the same outlook on life as me.

Ever since I fell out with all my 'friends' from high school, I really started looking at people that I've met as just acquaintances. I have yet to see how it will play out (3 years into college right now), but glad to hear its worked out for you.

quote Originally posted by kyunderdawg: With my looks, Tony, you'd need a black light. I hear that those kind of lights improve things.

Yeah, but they also show "witness marks".

Dave, remember, not everyone is going to take from you. Not everyone is going to look down their noses toward us. Not everyone is bad. We have a tendancy to extend our hand until it is bound. There are times when the tensions make us snap, and we forget just who we are. Never lose sight of who you are. Even when folks are battling us down, we need to remember what OUR values are. Holding true to yourself in the end is much better than caving.

Keep your head down, and your eyes up.

Tony

Just cut those people out of your life, like a cancer. No reason to try to be diplomatic. Clean cut. Surround yourself with people who love and appreciate you as much as you do them and you'll find things just feel better.

I understand and agree with much of what's been said here, kind of like a lot of people would with a self-help book. One issue that hasn't been discussed openly though is this. We are social creatures. We are programmed to seek out the company and companionship of others, and even to judge our own self worth by our interactions with others. Until you've "modded" or outright replaced this programming, defying it will be experienced as discomfort or outright pain.

I buried my brother in 2008. He was actually my cousin, but he was more of a brother than mine ever was, and I was fortunate enough to be born with a best friend waiting for me. We were everything to each other. I have not tried to make any other friends since his passing, and since moving down to Texas. I do have acquaintances, but every other relationship feels hollow compared to what I experienced with him. The raw honesty and vulnerability that can exist makes anything else be experienced as intolerable.

Saying to cut everyone out that you will be better off may very well be true, but until you do something about your programming, it probably won't feel that way. You need to work on yourself, that way you're strong enough to have better relationships and maybe even strong enough to not be as dependent on them for your sense of self worth. Good luck, we all need it.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 12-26-2011).]

quote Originally posted by mptighe: I understand and agree with much of what's been said here, kind of like a lot of people would with a self-help book. One issue that hasn't been discussed openly though is this. We are social creatures. We are programmed to seek out the company and companionship of others, and even to judge our own self worth by our interactions with others. Until you've "modded" or outright replaced this programming, defying it will be experienced as discomfort or outright pain.

I must have socialy modified myself already then. I can count my freinds on one hand. Those are the only people I will drop what I'm doing to help, because I know they will drop what they are doing to help me. Other than them it's all FAMILY. I would do almost anything for my Parents and my Sister (one Sister, the other I love but she has never proven to be what she should). I will put my wife and childrens wants and needs before mine. I am the provider for my family first, everything else second.

Finally_Mine_86_GT,

I understand what you are saying. I had freinds back when I got my first divorce, that I knew were freinds and mostly wanted to hang out with me because I had money (meaning, if we went to play pool, I'd pay for it). At the time I didn't really care, I needed social distraction. Once my real freind, who was stationed in Illinois, moved back to California I dropped them. I still kept in touch with some of them, but I wasn't the ATM anymore. My real freind was there. Sadly he got cancer and passed away and no one has come along who is as true a freind as he, although I have one who is close. That's what you need to find, freinds who would help you as much as you would help them. It's not easy to fond and sometimes they show up from the least likely of places, you never knowing they could be that kind of freind. My closest freind now (aside from my wife), I met on a MMORPG. We were going through some tuff times and had lost just about everything we had. We had to move somewhere and try again, as there was just no way we were going to be able to make a life in California. These people, who I had spent alot of time playing a online game with, but had only ever thought of as online freinds, offered to help us move to Utah. They were willing to drive their truck and trailor to California, load us up and give us a place to stay for a few months while we got back on our feet. I am forever grateful for what they did, and Mike knows I am a phone call away if he needs me, I don't care what it's for. 20 degrees out in your garage and you need to change the front hub on your truck? I'm there (this actually happened just a few weeks ago). But you see, it's finding those people who appreciate what you've done and will return it in kind. Yes, there are plenty of jerks out there that are only in it for themselves, but there are also those out there with true respect and understanding. Cut out the leeches, and wait, the real ones will show up and you may not even realize they where there all along until it happens.

I consider a great many people on this forum to be good people. I'd share a dinner with just about anyone who showed up in my neck of the woods. Some of the kindness I've seen on here is just amaizing. One I think of often is Brad with Antuzzi. If i had room in my home at the time (we were already helping my wifes freind from highschool) I'd have wanted to do the same. And look what happened. Antuzzi, as far as I can tell is out of the hell he was in back in California and actually making a go at life, with a little help from someone who cared. Find those worthy of the help, or let them find you, but don't waste your effort on users.

Edit: Oh and just a little side note. My Christmas was good. I did everything I could to get my wife and kids the things that would make them smile. There wasn't anything left over to get something for me, but I got what I wanted, the joy of my family.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 12-26-2011).]

http://www.spurgeon.org/all_of_g.htm

The only help that can be ultimately offered.

quote Originally posted by 1985FieroGT: http://www.spurgeon.org/all_of_g.htm The only help that can be ultimately offered.

Thanks but no thanks. I'm a Druid to the core. Will never convert and never push my beliefs.

quote Originally posted by 1985FieroGT: http://www.spurgeon.org/all_of_g.htm The only help that can be ultimately offered.

Never mind. It wouldn't come out right.

[This message has been edited by kyunderdawg (edited 12-26-2011).]

Since it was brought up. Mind you I do not like to bash at all but it is odd that the ones who seem to be the users are all church folk. Every other day church folk are the ones who have made me question myself in the first place. Odd how there is a common ground among the guilty in my life.

Got me thinking now...

quote Originally posted by Finally_Mine_86_GT: Since it was brought up. Mind you I do not like to bash at all but it is odd that the ones who seem to be the users are all church folk. Every other day church folk are the ones who have made me question myself in the first place. Odd how there is a common ground among the guilty in my life. Got me thinking now...

I find it interesting that many of the people who posted in this thread are religious, yet up until that reference there was no mention of God by them. There was a excerpt from the Satanist dogma, but yeah...

No one should come financially before your family, please quit spending any money helping anyone besides your wife and children. Having a successful home life is as big a reward as anyone can hope for. I am glad you are able to help people but, if you put a price on your time, collect first and reward your children with some special time together, like a trip for amusement. I am very generous with my time, doing all sorts of stuff for people but, nothing comes out of my pocket and when I can, the person is helping me at my home on their project so, my son can hang around.

The quitting drugs and alcohol was for your benefit, do not let others mess with things that benefit you.
I am not a fan of "burning bridges" but, you really need to sort out this babysitter relationship to a straight business relationship and clear out your stuff from their place. With so many things going on in your life, it seems to me that you do not want to leave people something to hang over your head.

Why are you poor even with a good job? Do a log that only tracks every dollar that is spent, for what, when, and why to find out. There is a hole somewhere that must be letting it poor out. It should only take 2 months to understand the issue. I bought a house 2 years after I changed my behavior having this new clarity.

Best of luck!