The US economy created no jobs and the unemployment rate held steadily higher at 9.1 percent in August, fueling concerns that the US is heading for another recession.
It was the first time since World War II that the economy had a net zero jobs created for a month.
Sad that we can't create any jobs for the folks entering the market, let alone get folks back to work. And now we have a back door policy that will let millions of illegals keep those jobs American supposedly won't do, yea it's broke.
The jury on the Hope and Change will render its verdict soon enough though. And don't forget, if hope and Change was real and not just a slogan that millions bought into, the Tea Party would have been dead two years ago when Neptune said it was dead.
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12:00 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by partfiero: Sad that we can't create any jobs for the folks entering the market, let alone get folks back to work. And now we have a back door policy that will let millions of illegals keep those jobs American supposedly won't do, yea it's broke.
The jury on the Hope and Change will render its verdict soon enough though. And don't forget, if hope and Change was real and not just a slogan that millions bought into, the Tea Party would have been dead two years ago when Neptune said it was dead.
yes - getting the illegals out of the workforce would be good thing. but, those who actually are hiring them cheap, AKA, the "Job Creators" are doing all they can to make sure that dont happen.....
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12:12 PM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
yes - getting the illegals out of the workforce would be good thing. but, those who actually are hiring them cheap, AKA, the "Job Creators" are doing all they can to make sure that dont happen.....
But this back door scam will make it illegal for anyone to force them to not hire illegals, because now there is no such thing as ILLEGAL. In AZ we did force them not to hire the illegals, but got sued and back-doored by this administration. So I guess the problem is solved now. So nice!
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12:32 PM
NEPTUNE Member
Posts: 10199 From: Ticlaw FL, and some other places. Registered: Aug 2001
The US economy created no jobs and the unemployment rate held steadily higher at 9.1 percent in August, fueling concerns that the US is heading for another recession.
It was the first time since World War II that the economy had a net zero jobs created for a month.
And once again, Fierobear is attempting to deflect attention away from the thread of this discussion: The acceptance of the Tea Party by mainstream America. Or the lack therof. As far as I'm concerned, Fierobear lost any credibility he may have had on this subject when he admitted his own ignorance of the origins of the Tea Party, (TWICE on page 11) and then in the same breath claimed to be an expert on the orginization, if not the founder and leader of his NOCAL branch.. Sorry I don't have pictures and a chalkboard for you.
FAIL. ------------------ Drive safely!
[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 09-04-2011).]
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01:36 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
I can appreciate you answering my questions, but you do know that your opinion does not constitute fact?
I have seen plenty from Tea Partiers that is racist, disrespectful and hostile, and like yourself, have also seen these same actions from the left. Do these actions represent the view of these groups as a whole, or just the view of a select few? I don't have the answer to that, but it is my hope that it is just a select few from either side.
This however is just my opinion.
A wise man never discounts the possibility that he is wrong. But I can only go on my own personal experience. For example, we have Tea Party rallys in Morgan Hill regularly. They meet in front of the Bagel shop on Monterey road right in front of the speed bumps so cars have to slow down. The signs they carry are all polite and respectful. They are ALL about high taxes and over regulation. Nothing is negative about anyone. The people there are housewives, local business people, and no ine is yelling or screaming.
Also, all the rally's I have seen on TV show diversified crowds and all are well behaved.
Yes, I have seen one or two kook in the crowds on TV when one of the left leaning networks reports it. But that lone kook is usually ust that...alone.
The Tea Party is just a group of people fed up with government overspending and taxation. I agree with that position.
To my mind and experience, the popularity drop in the Tea Party has to do with :
a) Bad press from the liberal media b) A general dislike of anything political in nature by some people c) Ignorance of what they really stand for
And as someone said above already (brilliantly I might add) when the politicians slam each other, that is just politics, when they start slamming the citizens, THAT is a sign of bad things!!!!
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01:59 PM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
The US economy created no jobs and the unemployment rate held steadily higher at 9.1 percent in August, fueling concerns that the US is heading for another recession.
It was the first time since World War II that the economy had a net zero jobs created for a month.
quote
Originally posted by NEPTUNE:
And once again, Fierobear is attempting to deflect attention away from the thread of this discussion: The acceptance of the Tea Party by mainstrem America. Or the lack therof. As far as I'm concerned, Fierobear lost any credibility he may have had on this subject when he admitted his own ignorance of the origins of the Tea Party, (TWICE on page 11) and then in the same breath claimed to be an expert on the orginization, if not the founder and leader of the NOCAL branch..
FAIL.
Sorry I don't have pictures and a chalkboard for you.
It is relevant and why the Tea Party is still around.
If Hope and Change wasn't just a slogan wearing an empty suite, the Tea Party would have died when you predicted, and we not only would be recovering big time, but you would't have had to post this worthless thread!
[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 09-02-2011).]
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02:04 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by Toddster: A wise man never discounts the possibility that he is wrong. But I can only go on my own personal experience. For example, we have Tea Party rallys in Morgan Hill regularly. They meet in front of the Bagel shop on Monterey road right in front of the speed bumps so cars have to slow down. The signs they carry are all polite and respectful. They are ALL about high taxes and over regulation. Nothing is negative about anyone. The people there are housewives, local business people, and no ine is yelling or screaming.
Also, all the rally's I have seen on TV show diversified crowds and all are well behaved.
Yes, I have seen one or two kook in the crowds on TV when one of the left leaning networks reports it. But that lone kook is usually ust that...alone.
The Tea Party is just a group of people fed up with government overspending and taxation. I agree with that position.
To my mind and experience, the popularity drop in the Tea Party has to do with :
a) Bad press from the liberal media b) A general dislike of anything political in nature by some people c) Ignorance of what they really stand for
And as someone said above already (brilliantly I might add) when the politicians slam each other, that is just politics, when they start slamming the citizens, THAT is a sign of bad things!!!!
and this is the part of the Tea Party I agree with. the Libertarian part. it is when the Christians jumped on and started riding on the Tea Party is when I decided it wasnt for me. I understand that being republicans, that is just baggage thats comes with being (R), and being there is no actual (T), that is just how it is. once you put the church into the (T), you end up just another plain old (R)..... but - there is still (L) - a REAL party - which ACTUALLY stands for what the (T) stands for, without the christian sharia law.
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02:14 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
and this is the part of the Tea Party I agree with. the Libertarian part. it is when the Christians jumped on and started riding on the Tea Party is when I decided it wasnt for me. I understand that being republicans, that is just baggage thats comes with being (R), and being there is no actual (T), that is just how it is. once you put the church into the (T), you end up just another plain old (R)..... but - there is still (L) - a REAL party - which ACTUALLY stands for what the (T) stands for, without the christian sharia law.
This one of those occassions that I agree with you. I do not like a good thing being usurped by ANY group. The Tea Party is a political group dedicated to eliminating Big Brother. I do not want any religious overtones.
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02:23 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27079 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Like I said in my response to partfiero, arguing politics in here is Insanity! People keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
You didn't answer the question. What racism have you found from the Tea Party?
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09:29 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27079 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
And once again, Fierobear is attempting to deflect attention away from the thread of this discussion: The acceptance of the Tea Party by mainstrem America. Or the lack therof.
No, this discussion has been ongoing, and several of us have discussed various issues. That happens often in threads that are several pages long. If you stuck around here long enough past the time you just drop in and make a snide comment in a thread, you'd realize that.
quote
As far as I'm concerned, Fierobear lost any credibility he may have had on this subject when he admitted his own ignorance of the origins of the Tea Party, (TWICE on page 11) and then in the same breath claimed to be an expert on the orginization, if not the founder and leader of the NOCAL branch..
FAIL.
Sorry I don't have pictures and a chalkboard for you.
No, I never said I was an "expert" on the organization. And no, I'm not ignorant of the origins of the Tea Party. You simply believed the leftist bullshit campaign against the Tea Party. It is a grass-roots organization, there IS NO CENTRAL LEADERSHIP, Koch brothers or otherwise. You either fail to understand this or just don't care enough to get past the leftist propaganda on the subject.
I'm not the "founder of the Nor Cal branch". I haven't seen any branch called "Nor Cal". There might be one, but it doesn't matter. I founded the local group in my small town. I was attending meetings in a nearby, larger group, but driving 45 minutes each way was a pain and I knew there were folks in my local area that simply needed to get organized. So I got it started. We set our own agenda, including monitoring issues at the city and county council, the state of California, as well as national issues. Our members attend town halls and ask questions. Our members to go the city and county councils and get involved. We now have guest speakers, including local politicians and state representatives.
Again, whether the Koch brothers started a Tea Party group or not, IT DOESN'T MATTER. We don't get money from them, we don't get emails from them, we don't get letters from them, and we don't get marching orders from them or any other larger organization. I wouldn't care whether they did or not, we take care of things ourselves. Period. Fact. So keep your declarations of my "FAIL" to yourself, because you don't know what the f*** you're talking about. As usual.
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10:15 PM
Sep 3rd, 2011
texasfiero Member
Posts: 4674 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: Jun 2003
The deeper reason for Congressional Black Caucus attacks on the Tea Party
Somewhere there’s a pollster laughing all the way to the bank for charging the Democrats a lot of money for bad advice – to turn the Democrat members of the Congressional Black Caucus loose to attack the Tea Party as racists and worse.
The comment by Congresswoman Maxine Waters that the “tea party can go straight to hell” and Congressman Andre Carson’s outrageous comment to a largely black audience that the Tea Party would “love to see you and me ... hanging on a tree,” by-the-way his second public statement branding the Tea Party as racist -- the first was during the healthcare mandate debate -- are just the two latest attempts by Democratic members of the CBC to raise these baseless and malevolent charges against the Tea Party, but they certainly won’t be the last.
If you wonder why Democrats do this when it is patently untrue, part of the reason is obviously to inflame the African – American community to insure a large turnout for President Obama in 2012, but for the deeper reason look no further than the biography of the lone Republican member of the Congressional Black Caucus, Tea Party backed Congressman Allen West.
Waters and Carson are both beneficiaries of, and advocates for, the racial spoils system that motivates much of the Democratic Party’s domestic agenda. Waters, also mired in an ethics controversy, has made a career out of adding a racial component to legislation, such as the recent Dodd-Frank financial services takeover bill.
On the other hand Republican Congressman West is a decorated Army officer, whose fierce independence, opposition to big government and often eloquent advocacy of the traditional American values of self-reliance and patriotism make him the poster child for the Tea Party.
Waters and Carson understand better than most that their days in power are numbered if more members of the African – American community adopt Congressman Allen West as their role model, and they will do and say anything to tear down West and the Tea Party to preserve the status quo and their place in it.
[This message has been edited by texasfiero (edited 09-03-2011).]
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10:56 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27079 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
A year or so ago, Neptune said the Tea Party was dead. Oh, yeah, it is SO DEAD that the news media keeps writing about it, Democratic congressjerks keep saying that it's influence is BAD, they accuse the Tea Party of holding up the budget, the debt ceiling, the Congress, blah blah blah. So...
Neptune said the Tea Party was dead. FAIL.
Neptune said the Tea Party is unpopular. FAIL.
Neptune says the Tea Party doesn't have any power or influence. FAIL
So all that is left is for Neptune to...
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11:00 PM
NEPTUNE Member
Posts: 10199 From: Ticlaw FL, and some other places. Registered: Aug 2001
I know you like to have the last word, fierobear, so go ahead. Knock yourself out. Have your sad little last word. I think I've made my point and also provided backup information to support it. Go ahead. Dig your head deeper into ......... The sand. If it makes you feel safe and secure. Have a nice day. I'm done with you.
------------------ Drive safely!
[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 09-04-2011).]
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11:11 PM
Sep 4th, 2011
fierobear Member
Posts: 27079 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Not so much fun when the one being generalized is you is it?
The thing is, they have no factual support for their generalizations. No credible evidence the Tea Party is racist, but they keep repeating it. On the other hand, we have PLENTY of evidence that the Democratic party has been taken over by far leftists.
It is not a matter of what is "fun", it's a matter of facts or lack of. We have the truth on our side. They have to lie, and to repeat those lies.
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01:04 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27079 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
The thing is, they have no factual support for their generalizations. No credible evidence the Tea Party is racist, but they keep repeating it. On the other hand, we have PLENTY of evidence that the Democratic party has been taken over by far leftists.
It is not a matter of what is "fun", it's a matter of facts or lack of. We have the truth on our side. They have to lie, and to repeat those lies.
Well, more than that, the Democratic Party is Racist. Yes, I'll say it. They try to deflect attention away from their own indefensible record on racial issues and the easiest way to do that is to go on the attack.
The thing is, they have no factual support for their generalizations. No credible evidence the Tea Party is racist, but they keep repeating it. On the other hand, we have PLENTY of evidence that the Democratic party has been taken over by far leftists.
It is not a matter of what is "fun", it's a matter of facts or lack of. We have the truth on our side. They have to lie, and to repeat those lies.
I guess that's the point, the "We's" and "They's" are just as right and wrong from the other side when one wants to believe.
It's easy to see the wrongs of generalization when you "know" the truth, and it's easy throw out conspiracies and generalizations when you don't want to know.
So let's make it clear, In your opinion the Democrats have been taken over by far leftists but the Tea Party and Republicans have not been taken over by anyone?
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01:47 PM
PFF
System Bot
fierobear Member
Posts: 27079 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
I guess that's the point, the "We's" and "They's" are just as right and wrong from the other side when one wants to believe.
No, you either have provable *facts* or you don't. For example, all the accusations of the Tea Party being "racist" are false. It is a narrative that is constructed to demonize and marginalize the Tea Party.
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02:05 PM
texasfiero Member
Posts: 4674 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: Jun 2003
No, you either have provable *facts* or you don't. For example, all the accusations of the Tea Party being "racist" are false. It is a narrative that is constructed to demonize and marginalize the Tea Party.
http://sleepless.blogs.com/...als-for-dummies.html RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)
No, you either have provable *facts* or you don't. For example, all the accusations of the Tea Party being "racist" are false. It is a narrative that is constructed to demonize and marginalize the Tea Party.
Are you talking to me? Because I don't think I have ever accused the tea party as being racist. The only accusation I've seen of racism lately is 4 posts up.
Seems like another deflection though, be sure to answer the direct question when you have moment.
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 09-04-2011).]
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02:19 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27079 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Are you talking to me? Because I don't think I have ever accused the tea party as being racist. The only accusation I've seen of racism lately is 4 posts up.
No, I'm talking about those who are *against* the Tea Party.
quote
Seems like another deflection though, be sure to answer the direct question when you have moment.
What is it with you and "unanswered questions"? What the hell do you need, 40 pages and diagrams?
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03:04 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27079 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
http://sleepless.blogs.com/...als-for-dummies.html RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)
Oh, yeah. 100% Saul Alinsky.
You know what is really interesting? The Saul Alinsky method is their Plan A, and they have no plan B!. None. They've been doing the same thing, over and over. They insult us, call us "racists", extremists, red necks...every name in the book. And it hasn't worked. So they do it again. And it doesn't work. Proof that they are a one-trick-pony. They have no other plan!
What is supposed to happen is that they discourage us and/or get us angry, then they can stand there and say "see! they're angry! they're bulliles!", and they'd play the victim of being bullied by their opponents and get public opinion and sympathy to them and their cause. It hasn't worked because we're supposed to lash out physically and violently, and start insulting them and losing our cool. The Saul Alinsky method came from Chicago and Chicago politics. Most people active in politics in Alinsky's day were thugs. Union thugs, leftist thugs, Democrat thugs, Mob thugs...thuggery was the way things were done, including fights and other physical intimidation. What the Democrats/leftists haven't caught onto is the problem that the rest of the country doesn't do things the 1940s Chicago way. So the Chicago methods don't work outside Chicago. The problem for the Democrats/leftists is that they've spent so much time and energy studying and practicing the Alinsky methods, and were so sure they'd work, that they haven't bothered making a "Plan B". They simply don't know what to do when Alinsky fails, which it is.
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03:15 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
Are you talking to me? Because I don't think I have ever accused the tea party as being racist. The only accusation I've seen of racism lately is 4 posts up.
Seems like another deflection though, be sure to answer the direct question when you have moment.
I have a question. Where do you find your strength to keep going, in the face of such opposition here? And still remain openminded in your examination of subjects & situations?
No, you either have provable *facts* or you don't. For example, all the accusations of the Tea Party being "racist" are false. It is a narrative that is constructed to demonize and marginalize the Tea Party.
I have seen their ways too often, for my liking
I am a 50's kid saw real racist BS in the south and was a 50-early 60's GOP supporter goldwater in 64 then the redneck KKK white citizen council or birch types suddenly started to want to be in the new south's GOP as they now hated LBJ and everything democratic by 68 and nixon's southern strategy it became a flood
I saw the party of lincoln flip-flop in to the dark side sure they learn to code the old racist BS into anti-poor BS now anti-illegals but the motive and intent was the same as were most of the people [haters] add in the nut christians [delusional ] plus the gun nuts [paranoids] then add on the moralist censors the anti-public schoolers and what a fine lot of hate makes up your GOP
but the southern GOP core today is the old racists
and now they want to call themselfs a tea party [puppets] who are actively trying to destroy this country their roots are known sure they drop the overt racist BS long ago but the ideas the people and the hate is still there redirected into new areas now
I saw it happen you can spin all you want the teaparty is the GOP under a name change and saddly the old party of lincoln is racist now and changing the name will not stop that __________________
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03:58 PM
htexans1 Member
Posts: 9110 From: Clear Lake City/Houston TX Registered: Sep 2001
I have a question. Where do you find your strength to keep going, in the face of such opposition here? And still remain openminded in your examination of subjects & situations?
I must know your secret.....
Mostly because I try not to take it personally when people oppose me, especially those who try to upset or tear me down, it shows their truth of character not mine. Some scream and rant because they disagree but I learned a long time ago that it takes way more energy to do things like that and they are more than entitled to their opinions as I am mine. Easier to just love people for who they are no matter if you agree or not IMO. Sure sometimes I get sucked into to their vortex but even then I try to learn from that as it rarely makes me feel any better.
As for remaining openmineded I still think that people are inherently good and given the right opportunity they usually show it.
Interestingly I think a lot of the way I TRY and think and treat others has come from examples of some of the great people I have known and have read about. They are examples of people that I can aspire to and I know I'm not even close. I have NO secret to convey.
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 09-04-2011).]
What is it with you and "unanswered questions"? What the hell do you need, 40 pages and diagrams?
Just trying to get you to answer a direct question, I didn't think it would be a problem. Seems like you may have taken a page out of the Tea Party Candidates book on answering direct questions though. ... kidding
Hinting and throwing out accusations like "the Democratic party have been taken over by far leftists" and "you "know" this because YOU have PLENTYof evidence" is troubling IMO in the fact that you so easily see how generalizations like that are so wrong/untrue when they are turned on something you believe in.
Do you not see the irony or as you like to say hypocricy? Do you see where things like hate and fear are easily grown in a environment of generalizing the "other side"?
So you claim the southern racists joined the GOP, and that makes ALL of the GOP racist? Really?
no bear read it again I said the southern racist did join the GOP beginning in 64 and flooded in after nixon's southern stratagem I watched it happen
what it did do was recruit racists sure there are some anti-racist moderate GOP members but you call them RINO's
only spinners claim all of anything
I said ''''but the southern GOP core today is the old racists''' that is not all or even most of the national GOP but a large group who's history is known
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05:28 PM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
Originally posted by newf: Hinting and throwing out accusations like "the Democratic party have been taken over by far leftists" and "you "know" this because YOU have PLENTYof evidence" is troubling IMO in the fact that you so easily see how generalizations like that are so wrong/untrue when they are turned on something you believe in.
I'm not hinting, throwing out accusations or generalizing. I've provided ample evidence. Perhaps you missed it.
I'm sorry now I'm confused on what it is you are trying to prove.
Is it your contention now that all Democrats are racist AND communist? Direct question
As I've been saying all along things are usually much more complex and to generalize the whole party (any party/group) seems simplistic IMO.
I'm sure the facts that others (and I) have posted on the Tea Party could be used by some to label everyone in the party as the same but that would be equally wrong. Again that's the point you for some reason seem to believe all the negatives you read or hear about groups you don't like or agree with while seeing the same "propaganda" about groups you align with as false. Black and White thinking IMO.
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07:29 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27079 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Originally posted by newf: I'm sorry now I'm confused on what it is you are trying to prove.
That things I've been saying are based in some kind of proof, not my personal opinion or point of view.
quote
Is it your contention now that all Democrats are racist AND communist? Direct question
Direct answer: no.
But that you have to ask suggests that you are willing to either generalize, interpret things as black or white, that you will interpret things to the extreme, or that you are being a wise guy on purpose.
As I've been saying all along things are usually much more complex and to generalize the whole party (any party/group) seems simplistic IMO.
quote
I'm sure the facts that others (and I) have posted on the Tea Party could be used by some to label everyone in the party as the same but that would be equally wrong. Again that's the point you for some reason seem to believe all the negatives you read or hear about groups you don't like or agree with while seeing the same "propaganda" about groups you align with as false. Black and White thinking IMO.
What I posted is backed up not only with the information provided by someone who was IN both the Democratic AND Communist party, but also by the actions of the Democratic party, especially since Obama was elected. It's not just what I've read or tend to believe, but the sum total of what I've read, from inside or former inside sources, combined with actions they've taken (in Congress, for example) that support the premise.
What I posted is backed up not only with the information provided by someone who was IN both the Democratic AND Communist party, but also by the actions of the Democratic party, especially since Obama was elected. It's not just what I've read or tend to believe, but the sum total of what I've read, from inside or former inside sources, combined with actions they've taken (in Congress, for example) that support the premise.
Again that's certainly your opinion and you are entitled to it.... as you said it's what you tend to believe, just as some tend to believe other generalizations about many groups. I'm sure there is plenty of "supporting evidence" to show almost any generalization if one chooses to believe. Especially in todays internet age and hate blogs.
Read your own quote from page 1....
quote
Originally posted by fierobear: Well, everyone knows that if a Harvard professor says it, it MUST be true, huh? As far as someone being a "legitimate journalist", I don't think there are any of those around any more.
I would be interested in knowing what makes the sources you've linked valid and other peoples not?
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 09-04-2011).]
Originally posted by fierobear: Direct answer: no.
But that you have to ask suggests that you are willing to either generalize, interpret things as black or white, that you will interpret things to the extreme, or that you are being a wise guy on purpose.
No, I try not and interpret thgings to the extreme but when people say extreme things there's really not much left for interpretation.
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08:54 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27079 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
... kidding 
