I've been following this story on one of the state ccw boards and the video was recently released for viewing.

Interesting stuff starts happening around 6:45. Northern Ohio is a particularly anti-gun area, especially the corners of Toledo and Cleveland. I don't think this is very surprising stuff for the area.



Synopsis from the guys atty on the board:
http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53994

At the first pretrial, the prosecutor offered to dismiss all charges for a release of liability (promise they wouldnt be sued). I refused their offer. My guy is a mild-mannered 50 some year old man, not some younger mouthy stud.
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I am representing someone in a failure to notify case. It is an ongoing legal case, so I dont want to post too much here right now. I watched the video today, and it verified an almost unbelievable story my client told me. To make this real brief - my client was stopped. Tried to notify, but was told by one officer to shut up. Another officer came to the driver's side door, and again my client tried to notify. You can hear him in the video say "I've got . . ." before he his cut off with a profanity laced tirade, and demand for his driver's license. My clent hands the officer his license, tries to notify again while holding his CHL in his hand. The officer says "What? What are you waving around that you want me to see?" He takes it, looks at it, while my client says "I'm trying to tell you . . ." The officer asks, "do you have a gun? My guy says "Yes" and then is pushed against his vehicle while the officer takes the gun from my client's waistband holster. The total time from the officer approaching the car door to being told he has a gun was 55 seconds.

It gets worse from there. The officer tells my guy that "I should blast you right in the mouth." "I'm close to caving in your head." "You are a stupid human being." "How would you like it if I pull mine and stick it to your head." When speaking to another officer, he says "I hate these expletive deleted - Jake with their gd permits." And, again, later tells my client "I should have taken 2 steps back, put 10 rounds in your expletive deleted - Jake, and left you lying there. I should have executed you, and I'd go home and sleep good tonight."


Internal affairs was notified. I am having a difficult time conveying the intensity involved. This was bad, really bad scene.

Sorry I can't say more right now. Be careful out there!!

Edit to add one more bit of information. My client was stopped in his motor vehicle at the time. He was in a no parking zone. This was not the result of a high speed chase or anything like that.

[This message has been edited by Rainman (edited 07-21-2011).]

That is so outrageously ridiculous... To think that that cop is allowed to carry a gun when he clearly sees it as a way to threaten and intimidate a civilian just because he's upset. Disgusting. I'm almost speechless. Holy crap... I WILL be ccw-ing and I seriously hope I don't run into any cops like this. I know how to stay cool and defuse but as that video shows, it doesn't always matter. Some a-hole cop can threaten to shoot you 10 times anyway. Wow, just wow...

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(TRSX) The Zombiero - "Thrice resurrected"
1985 GT, 4 Speed Muncie, 3.4PR V6, 15" Lace GT wheels, Power everything, sunroof, Red with gray effects. Driven and enjoyed daily.

Fiero GT- 2 seater, mid engine, rear wheel drive, H.O. V6, manual rack and pinion steering, fully independent suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, no ABS, no traction control, no speed limiter, available T-Tops. So, outdated econo-box or classic sports car? You decide.

Disturbing.

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Dealing with failure is easy: work hard to improve. Success is also easy to handle: you've solved the wrong problem, work hard to improve.

quote Originally posted by DRA: Disturbing.

Agreed. The driver should have been more forceful in informing the LEO but, the LEO was way out of line. I'm not blaming the driver though, the LEO is apparently not very comfortable in this area during hours of darkness and is obviously a Type A personality. All I can say is not everyone is meant to be a LEO. If re-training isn't effective, he needs to be assigned to desk duty or find a new line of work.

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Ron

Thread with video as first post: http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54153

Notice O2 is a little harder to hear? Maybe he's had issues in the past and has lowered or covered it somehow...

quote Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: Thread with video as first post: http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54153 Notice O2 is a little harder to hear? Maybe he's had issues in the past and has lowered or covered it somehow...

Or maybe, he's a little more calm about the whole situation. He may also not be the lead officer. Playing a secondary role does make a difference.

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Ron

I ran into almost the same thing a few months ago. Same BS charge and I went to jail for an hour. They didnt think I had $4000 cash on me to post bail. I got it back from the judge, but they took that gun. Im going to contact that attorney.

It seems like the driver is a little bit slow, and therefore because of it, was rather timid, and not being forcefull enough to tell the officer that he was carrying.

But that said... the officer SHOULD be making an effort to understand the situation. Being slow, is not a crime... the guy obviously made an effort to the best of his abilities, and he even remained calm the ENTIRE time.


I know that police officers go through a lot of stress, and they routinely deal with the scum of the earth. Because of this, I'm sure that the fine line between normalcy and ridiculousness gets blurred... what you have are police officers who are irate ALL the time.


In the end, there's really no harm or foul... I assume the driver did not get charged for anything, and has no record now. The officer needs to take a leave of absence, or possibly get transferred off the beat.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: In the end, there's really no harm or foul... I assume the driver did not get charged for anything, and has no record now. The officer needs to take a leave of absence, or possibly get transferred off the beat.

Actually he was charged with a misdemeanor and is fighting it. The prosecutor wanted him to sign a promise he would not sue the city in exchange for the charges being dropped. The guy told him to go get stuffed.

I say there is harm done. Psychological harm at least. I'd be quite upset if the local Gestapo threatened to put 10 rounds into me! Since when is this kind of behaviour accepted out of the police?

[This message has been edited by tutnkmn (edited 07-21-2011).]

It was a BIG deal to me. I was charged with a 1st degree felony for it, with a $4000 fine and a year in jail. The inept lawyer I got there pled it down to a misdemeanor thats on my record. It cost me a fine, $1500 for lawyer, and they took my gun. They tried to take my CCP, but judge said he wasnt going there. I was just walking to my parked car while they were searching for a burglary suspect.

It seems over there some cops think they are higher than god.
Yes they are Laws
and we all have to do as the laws say
But Cops also have the same laws

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: It was a BIG deal to me. I was charged with a 1st degree felony for it, with a $4000 fine and a year in jail. The inept lawyer I got there pled it down to a misdemeanor thats on my record. It cost me a fine, $1500 for lawyer, and they took my gun. They tried to take my CCP, but judge said he wasnt going there. I was just walking to my parked car while they were searching for a burglary suspect.

As it should be. What you got for a lawyer was more of a compromiser. He didn't do you any favors. Would have probably cost you more to beat it in expenses but, IMO you should not have accepted the deal. I don't know if you can go back now and challenge the deal but, well worth investigating.

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Ron

perhaps the answer is to seperate police officers from traffic enforcement. make a lower class officer, which is GREATLY reduced in authourity - basicly - a "traffic security guard" - a step up from meter-maid.

[This message has been edited by Pyrthian (edited 07-21-2011).]

Is this not considered harassment? I mean, he CLEARLY tried to state he had a carry permit. I think I might have tried to say that before they even got in the car. Of course I would have objected to the searching of the car.

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I made that up now!

I hope that guy gets fired. A person like that is a danger to the public and his abusive attitude is a great disservice to the public that he is supposed to be serving.


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The original officer wasnt causing any problems, just asked some routine questions like what I was doing there (out of town), etc. The problems didnt start till they called in his gung ho supervisor. I told them i was just leaving a friends house to go home, walking to my car over there. He accused me of being a liar, like why were you in that building. I told them I wasnt even on that side of the street. Its a long story, but thats the jist of it . When they figured out I had nothing to do with that, he just decided to go with I didnt tell the original officer I had a permit (and I called him a liar back) since I was already arrested and cuffed in the back of the cruiser.

It's pretty obvious that cop has some serious anger issues. Take 2 steps back pull his Glock forty and put ten rounds in the guy's head? Seriously? This is the kind of cop we want running around? That dude is dangerous.

quote Originally posted by tutnkmn: Actually he was charged with a misdemeanor and is fighting it. The prosecutor wanted him to sign a promise he would not sue the city in exchange for the charges being dropped. The guy told him to go get stuffed. I say there is harm done. Psychological harm at least. I'd be quite upset if the local Gestapo threatened to put 10 rounds into me! Since when is this kind of behaviour accepted out of the police?

It's NOT ok, and I completely agree with you. However, I do know enough police officers to know that they don't start out like this... sure, there are some, and maybe this guy is one of them. But from my arm-chair quarterbacking... it appears to me as though this guy is getting worn out being on the beat. That's all I'm saying. Just to re-iterate, these officers... most of them, go into these jobs because they want to serve their country, their community, or to make a difference. Many of these people go into these jobs because they are not content with simply pushing paper at a company that doesn't make "change" for the better. Certainly, we all know there are also officers who go into the police force because they were made fun of or whatever, and want to be in a position of power because it makes them feel good, and miraculously pass the psychological examination... but honestly, those are really only the guys you hear about. You don't regularly hear about the GOOD cops, which makes up the majority of them, I believe.

So needless to say, I think this officer is getting strung out, worn out, and has probably changed. Based on his furious reaction (which was not totally "sane"), it didn't appear to me at all that the guy was more concerned about showing authority as he was simply just "angry." The cop was obviously angry, and then became agitated and frazzled when the thought came into his head that he could have died.

The driver certainly didn't deserve the verbal abuse under any circumstance... and he's owed everything that comes to him.

You could really say the job got to the officer. Look, you know I'm a hard-core Republican, I'm all about people taking responsbility for their actions... I'm totally against victim mentality, so it's not in character for me to say this officer is a victim of his environment. That said, he should have seen the signs... they talk about this stuff on a regular basis (I'd like to see another officer's perspective on here). They routinely look for signs of an officer that's strung out and at the end of his rope. Officers are exposed to the worst people in society on a daily basis... and the lines between courteous people and hardened criminals get blurred.

You know how screwed up a lot of military people get when they come back from war... being an officer is no different, if perhaps on a less-constant, longer-term situation.


The victim here deserves everything he should get from the lawsuit, etc... but the officer shouldn't lose his job... he SHOULD be transferred off the beat, or perhaps given psychological help while he's taking time off.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: It was a BIG deal to me. I was charged with a 1st degree felony for it, with a $4000 fine and a year in jail. The inept lawyer I got there pled it down to a misdemeanor thats on my record. It cost me a fine, $1500 for lawyer, and they took my gun. They tried to take my CCP, but judge said he wasnt going there. I was just walking to my parked car while they were searching for a burglary suspect.

Oh **** ! That was you? Damn... sorry for the slow comment.

I know you're definitely not, but you appeared that way... maybe that was just you being extra calm. (whoops... I'm an ******* )

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 07-21-2011).]

Wow. I'm surprised the dash cam wasn't "lost".

If this happened to me, and it's on film, with sound, I'm suing for big bucks. They always seem to understand when the budget comes under fire. I don't care what the cops normal stress load is, this is completely out of bounds and no jury would disagree.

[This message has been edited by weaselbeak (edited 07-21-2011).]

First off the cop was way out of line don't mistake this for defending him. But that is just one incident. I've been stopped before with my CCW and it went completely different. But the first thing they did to my buddy and I was ask if we had any weapons on us. We both calmly raised our hands over our heads and informed them yes, we both had CCW permits and that we both were carrying. Was textbook after that and went exactly how we were told to expect it in the CCW Class. We were handcuffed until they could verify we both were legal and then sent on our way. The two officers were very nice about it and even bs'ed with us about our guns until everything came back legit.

quote ; but the officer shouldn't lose his job... he SHOULD be transferred off the beat, or perhaps given psychological help while he's taking time off.

I totally disagree. This officer screwed up from the word go. He should have checked the driver immediately. Then when he discovered his major mistake he took it out on the driver. His terroristic threats to the driver are grounds for criminal charges by themselves. He should be terminated immediately and charged. That's the only way to get the attention of like minded officers and to keep the force under control. I am generally very supportive of police and sympathize with the stress of their jobs, but this officer lost control of himself and is a danger to all of us.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: The driver should have been more forceful in informing the LEO but,...

I strongly disagree. Being "more forceful" with a LEO is rarely, if ever, a safe reaction.
It's also why I keep my CCH permit together with my license so if stopped even if I'm not given a chance to say anything, I hand the LEO both my ID and CCH at the same time. I do this regardless of whether I'm carrying or not, even though NC law says you only have a duty to notify if you're armed.

I can't view the video from work, but from the account in the original post, if accurate, the cop needs to change careers. I don't care if he was having a bad day or not. If a civilian said those things, they could be arrested for threatening to kill someone. This officer is a danger to the public, himself, and other LEOs.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: The victim here deserves everything he should get from the lawsuit, etc... but the officer shouldn't lose his job... he SHOULD be transferred off the beat, or perhaps given psychological help while he's taking time off.

I disagree. At any job, threatening anyone that you would execute them, shoot them in the mouth and pump ten rounds into them would be grounds for immediate termination.


.

^ I disagree with the three posts above me purely in order to keep the disagreement running.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: ^ I disagree with the three posts above me purely in order to keep the disagreement running.

I disagree with your disagreement.

BDub, I am disagree that you should disagree solely for the purpose of disagreeing...that should stop...agreed?

This cop should absolutely be fired. I don't know why we give them so much leeway when they have so much power.

I'd have to challenge the statement, "most cops go into the job to serve their country and community." that is a huge assumption. You must remember that these jobs have a lot of perks. You know getting out of parking or traffic tickets, professional courtesy (means not be charged for a DUI), etc.

The officer was TOTALLY out of control. The guy was approached in the first place because he was stopped in a no parking zone, right? He tries to give the officer his permit. The officer's not interested. Long before he has said he's got a weapon, the officer is out of control.

It's not legal to own a handgun, let alone have one concealed about your person in public in the UK, but if old bill with a taser was to use that kind of attitude here, or even threaten to hit you with a baton, or ANYTHING like that in that situation, they would be out of a job so fast they wouldn't know what hit them.

That video genuinely shocked me.

Police in UK are trained completely different than here in the US. I saw a documentary on it once, was very revealing.

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: This cop should absolutely be fired. I don't know why we give them so much leeway when they have so much power. I'd have to challenge the statement, "most cops go into the job to serve their country and community." that is a huge assumption. You must remember that these jobs have a lot of perks. You know getting out of parking or traffic tickets, professional courtesy (means not be charged for a DUI), etc.

I'm certainly not blind to what goes on... I'm really looking at this from a non-biased standpoint. This is coming from someone who was accused of using drugs, while I was forced to sit on the side-walk while they searched my car. And that happened when "I" called them because someone had backed into my Fiero in a bank parking lot.


I'm just saying that police officers deal with the scum of the earth. Of course we ask them, and expect them to be professional, ALL the time. But understand that they ARE human, and everyone has their breaking point. How many good things has this officer done that we would simply negate all of it because he snapped and verbally abused a guy out of protocol?

Sure, we ALL agree this officer was totally out of line, and totally deserves to be punished for it.

But does that mean he needs to lose his job immediately? You guys are mad because you feel like your rights are being affected here. Certainly, I support CCW, and would get one myself but just don't want to spend the money on a gun.

I'm simply saying... don't let your biases affect you in this judgement. The guy obviously snapped... no one was injured, and I'm sure the guy will sue and will rightly win. But I don't think the officer should lose his job and his pension. I think he deserves at least that much... he should be re-assigned, or given a psych evaluation and counseling until he obviously has an attitude adjustment. I'm sure his union will help him with that (hah, can't believe I said that).

Wow, I thought he was just a prick cop up until he said he should have pulled out his glock 40 and put ten rounds into him and go on to explain how his partner would have been a nice witness as he "executed" him for being stupid. That part is really out of line, I hope he loses his job for that.

quote Originally posted by fastblack: Wow, I thought he was just a prick cop up until he said he should have pulled out his glock 40 and put ten rounds into him and go on to explain how his partner would have been a nice witness as he "executed" him for being stupid. That part is really out of line, I hope he loses his job for that.

He needs to go to jail, if a civilian was to tell a cop that he ought to execute him, imagine what would happen.

I think the cop was angry with himself for assuming that this was just another routine bust of a John with a pimp and a ho. He let his guard down and could have been killed.

quote Originally posted by spark1: I think the cop was angry with himself for assuming that this was just another routine bust of a John with a pimp and a ho. He let his guard down and could have been killed.

No evidence that the woman was a prostitute other than coming out of the cops mouth.

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: He needs to go to jail, if a civilian was to tell a cop that he ought to execute him, imagine what would happen.

I agree. There are times when the police do the wrong action, like arrest the wrong person. It happens, but it's police doing their job in good faith and acting appropriately with the info they have at the time. That said, there is no situation that would warrant a police officer "executing" someone or even threatening to do so. There is no legal explanation for his actions - he was acting outside the law and outside his authority and should be arrested and tried like any other person.

Where's the Hero of Canton when you need him?

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 07-21-2011).]

That was totally outrageous. I feel safer with the driver carrying a weapon than with that cop having one.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: In the end, there's really no harm or foul... I assume the driver did not get charged for anything, and has no record now. The officer needs to take a leave of absence, or possibly get transferred off the beat.

I disagree, if a citizen talked to another citizen like they they would be in jail for intimidation, at the very least. He should also be fired and barred from serving on ANY force for the rest of his life, not transferred. Its not like things got out of hand with a bunch of heated screaming after a chase, he was threatening to kill a citizen in cold blood due to his dislike of him exercising his rights. Not acceptable in the least.

quote Originally posted by Nurb432: I disagree, if a citizen talked to another citizen like they they would be in jail for intimidation, at the very least. He should also be fired and barred from serving on ANY force for the rest of his life, not transferred. Its not like things got out of hand with a bunch of heated screaming after a chase, he was threatening to kill a citizen in cold blood due to his dislike of him exercising his rights. Not acceptable in the least.

Do you know WHY he reacted that way??? Answer me that...

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: No evidence that the woman was a prostitute other than coming out of the cops mouth.

The lady admitted to being a prostitute at one time, but that it had been "a number of years" since she last did it.