I have been looking at the Kawasaki Ninja 250R as a commuter/toy vehicle mainly because it gets 60MPG and suitable for a learner such as myself. The only thing i am afraid of is the living-with-a-motorcycle part. Right now i drive my fiero for everything, it only seats two and has limited cargo space but we have all found ways to live with it. It seems that a motor cycle seats the same number of people as a fiero, and has less cargo space unless you have an enormous backpack. Is living with a fiero much different than living with a motorcycle?

Rain.

quote Originally posted by datacop: Rain.

gravel

The fountains at Caesars Palace.

I rode daily 9 months a year for a few years in northern IL. Rain, hail, heat, cold, all the same if you have the right gear and keep your head about you. For once PK is right, gravel can be a ***** when you don't expect it in curves. Of course, you could ride it every day and save the fiero for rainy days if you aren't willing to buy a decent rain suit. Definitely get a full helmet and a leather jacket. Also, I might recommend a 500. You're gonna want passing power if you're commuting, plus power for your weight plus a potential passenger. I would never want anything smaller than 600, but I've got many thousands of miles on Harleys and sportbikes.

quote Originally posted by datacop: Rain.

The Kaw isn't the bike I'd choose, but it does get great mileage, and look pretty cool in the process.
You could do a lot worse.


MY first bike was made in France......


It ran on cheap red wine mixed with olive oil, IIRC.

Ninja 250 is too slow to be a safe vehicle on any highway.

Aside from the aforementioned rain and gravel, what about temperatures? Does the heat/AC in your Fiero work? How often do you use it?

I'll ride down to about 35 degrees as long as the streets are clear of water/snow, which you probably wouldn't see much. But I won't ride if it's over 100, it's too dang warm with gear on to be comfortable, I think. Granted, everyone has their own hot/cold tolerances, so you may feel different (I'm always warm, my ideal weather is 60 and sunny), but its certainly something else to consider.

Will you be keeping the Fiero, and getting the bike in addition, or selling the Fiero to get the bike? On the bike, a lot of times you have to plan out trips a little more if you need to pick up anything, since storage is scarce. You can get a decent sized saddlebag set that'll let you bring home what you need most of the time, but you may have to make more frequent trips to get them all. If you grocery shop for a month at a time with the Fiero, and start using just the bike, you may need to change to a week at a time in order to be able to bring what you need home. Certain things like 48 count rolls of toilet paper (seriously, why do they make them in packages that big? That's borderline embarrassing to buy anyway) you won't be able to bring home regardless of whether you have saddlebags or not.

A big part of why I bought was looking at only Sport Touring bikes when I bought my Triumph was the storage on them, I wanted something that had space so that I had somewhere to put my backpack, as I have to have my computer with me frequently for work, and wearing a backpack on a bike in the summer is quite warm (again, I don't like warm). Also, with the storage on here I've always got my rain gear with me in case I end up needing it unexpectedly.

You need to take a look at what your commute is, too. I agree with TommyRocker and FalconFiero, I wouldn't ride a 250 if I had to do any freeway riding. Granted, I'm 6' #240, so pretty heavy for my height (probably a part of why I'm always warm as well), but I wouldn't look at anything less than a 600....but then again, most of my riding is highways where the speed limit is 70 and traffic moves faster than that most of the time, so I wanted the power to ensure I had it if necessary. If you're staying off highways (say, on roads with a speed limit of 55 or less), then I'd consider the something smaller...but that's not the commute I was looking at.

------------------
Nick www.naskie18.com GoogleTalk: naskie18 AIM: naskie18

quote Originally posted by Falcon Fiero: Ninja 250 is too slow to be a safe vehicle on any highway.

I think there are several cars that fit that category as well.

Brad

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: I think there are several cars that fit that category as well. Brad

And People

I have been looking for a used Vulcan 750 + as they seem to be falling into my price range. Living in Florida I have to add older drivers to the things to worry about.

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 04-18-2011).]

quote Originally posted by TommyRocker: I rode daily 9 months a year for a few years in northern IL. Rain, hail, heat, cold, all the same if you have the right gear and keep your head about you. For once PK is right, gravel can be a ***** when you don't expect it in curves. Of course, you could ride it every day and save the fiero for rainy days if you aren't willing to buy a decent rain suit. Definitely get a full helmet and a leather jacket. Also, I might recommend a 500. You're gonna want passing power if you're commuting, plus power for your weight plus a potential passenger. I would never want anything smaller than 600, but I've got many thousands of miles on Harleys and sportbikes.

Yes, I agree that it's entirely possible to use your bike as your primary mode of transport, rain, shine, snow, cold, etc..

Yes, with the proper gear.. anything is possible. But the problem with having the proper gear.. is having the proper gear.

Example, I take my Goldwing to the office. Nice bike, plenty of room in the bags and trunk to stow any gear that I may need for whatever happens to come my way. In my left bag I keep my rain gear, over gloves and boot slickers. As I said, I ride my bike to the office.. it's a nice spring day, 65 degrees in the AM. Typical Indiana weather, I leave the office it's now 55 degrees, and pouring down rain.

No problem.. I have my "Rain" gear..

But my rain gear is on my bike..

So now I have to get soaked to go out to get my rain gear out of the bike to bring back inside to suit up.. to go out and ride home.

I'll I'm saying is that using gear to battle the elements is a pain in the ass.. and my riding I prefer to have to break out the gear as an exception to the rule, rather than standard operating procedure. In other words, if the weather report says it's going to pour.. I won't ride.. But then again, that's a judgement call in and of itself

And.. I'd rather have gravel than wet leaves any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I have a friend that rode everyday over 50 miles to work and then back home again out of necessity for almost three years in the Kansas City, KS area. Didn't matter what the weather was, he didn't have a choice and his boss expected him to be at work on time everyday.
According to him, it wasn't too bad 90% of the time as far as the weather went but, he hated cagers. Not all but, some folks think they own the road and can do what ever they want with it regardless of who or what may be occupying that area in front or beside them. My friend still rides but, now only when he chooses to.

If you can decide when and where you want to ride, then that 250 will be fine to learn on. Just remember, those with four wheelers (cagers) will run over you if you're not careful. When I ride, I always consider them as predators with my ass as their prey. Remember, 99% of the time, they are bigger so use your head. I also always wear a helment, I'm too good looking to risk damaging my second best asset.

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Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 04-18-2011).]

quote Originally posted by MordacP: I have been looking at the Kawasaki Ninja 250R as a commuter/toy vehicle mainly because it gets 60MPG and suitable for a learner such as myself. The only thing i am afraid of is the living-with-a-motorcycle part. Right now i drive my fiero for everything, it only seats two and has limited cargo space but we have all found ways to live with it. It seems that a motor cycle seats the same number of people as a fiero, and has less cargo space unless you have an enormous backpack. Is living with a fiero much different than living with a motorcycle?

Well, if you ever plan to take a girl to a fancy dinner, or you have to go to a cocktail party, a job interview, etc...


Many people don't realize it, but non-motorcycle riders look down on people when they come in to fancy restaurants, or job interviews, and they've got the whole "get-up" going on. The helmet, the leather jacket, the pants, etc...

If you come to a job interview with all that stuff on, and it's a desk job, you probably won't get it.


Is there any reason why you can't keep both? Certainly the motorcycle will be more fuel economic...

quote Originally posted by Falcon Fiero: Ninja 250 is too slow to be a safe vehicle on any highway.

Incorrect.

At least the modern ones anyway. They will run fast enough to keep up with traffic on most normal interstates (read ~75-80). And they will out-accelerate most cars on the road.

Hell, my 500 single from 1983 will keep up with my Mustang in the 1/4!
And the Ninja 250 is faster than my thumper.

About the only thing that I have read that would take getting used on on a Ninja 250 is that it will be running like 9k rpm on the interstate, but they're designed to do that. That's apparently where the power is, and the redline is like 14k or something so it's not like you're gonna hurt it.

So, a 250 Ninja is still a great starter bike, and it will work on the highways/interstate.

quote Originally posted by Falcon Fiero: Ninja 250 is too slow to be a safe vehicle on any highway.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. While I appreciate your foundness for speed and power, (we've seen your bike ) That statement is way wrong, and could lead a begginer to stay away from a bike that is plenty adequate. They can maintain highway speeds and excellerate faster than most cars. Certainly fastre than a 4 banger Fiero. A Ninja 250 is a great starter bike, but I imagine you would tire of it fast.

Jim

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: Wrong, wrong, wrong. While I appreciate your foundness for speed and power, (we've seen your bike ) That statement is way wrong, and could lead a begginer to stay away from a bike that is plenty adequate. They can maintain highway speeds and excellerate faster than most cars. Certainly fastre than a 4 banger Fiero. A Ninja 250 is a great starter bike, but I imagine you would tire of it fast. Jim

x2
0 to 60 in 7.23
40 to 70 in 6.33
1/4 mile in 15.56 @ 82.5
60 to 0 in 129'
mpg 59.7

While not a barn stormer, the Ninja 250 is a capable bike for the beginner, or just the frugal. I have owned several sport bikes, and have ridden the 250 Ninja last fall. It is a very capable machine, and what I believe an excellent value. It handles the twisties just awesome, and has plenty of freeway power. No, you are not going to blow the doors off of much, but it looks good getting there slowly.


Tony

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Well, if you ever plan to take a girl to a fancy dinner, or you have to go to a cocktail party, a job interview, etc... Many people don't realize it, but non-motorcycle riders look down on people when they come in to fancy restaurants, or job interviews, and they've got the whole "get-up" going on. The helmet, the leather jacket, the pants, etc...

More reason to get a bike with luggage Unless you've got a window view, you'll never know if I rode or drove in to work, or the restaurant, or wherever we happen to be. Not that I care if you do, I just don't want to be carrying the gear around.

And yes, I've ridden to interviews, both as the interviewee and the interviewer. Yes, I did get the job I interviewed for, and, no, the interviewer at the time didn't notice. He ended up pulling into the parking lot at the same time as me one day in my first week or two of working for him and that's when he noticed I had a bike.

The fancy dinner bit, I suppose that depends on whether she wants to ride on the back or not.

Aside from potentially the job interview bit, why do I care whether anyone is looking down on me (or up to me, or sideways at me for that matter) when I walk in?

I rode bike and commuted a fair bit for 11 years.

My ride was a 500 cc Honda Shadow (shafty).

I'm not familiar with your ride, but the numbers posted above look respectable.

Here is a short list of positives and negatives

1. gas mileage can't be beat
2. insurance cost if it is a second vehicle is low
3. very nimble in traffic
4. parking is easier
5. feeling of freedom for happy excursions can't be beat

Negative?

1. you need a good rain suit and wax your visor
2. wet is ok, cold is ok, but cold and wet is a b*tch
3. carrying heavy stuff is not good.
4. BEWARE OF GRAVEL it is like riding on ball bearings.
5. DON'T FOLLOW TOO CLOSE remember your bike stops way faster than car. you can get rear ended
6. MISTAKES CAN COST YOUR LIFE
7. take a good motorcycle training course. worth the money all week.
8. you need to have eyes in the back of your head. PAY ATTENTION, ANTICIPATE THE TRAFFIC

All that said, I miss my bike.

Arn

quote Originally posted by naskie18: More reason to get a bike with luggage Unless you've got a window view, you'll never know if I rode or drove in to work, or the restaurant, or wherever we happen to be. Not that I care if you do, I just don't want to be carrying the gear around. And yes, I've ridden to interviews, both as the interviewee and the interviewer. Yes, I did get the job I interviewed for, and, no, the interviewer at the time didn't notice. He ended up pulling into the parking lot at the same time as me one day in my first week or two of working for him and that's when he noticed I had a bike. The fancy dinner bit, I suppose that depends on whether she wants to ride on the back or not. Aside from potentially the job interview bit, why do I care whether anyone is looking down on me (or up to me, or sideways at me for that matter) when I walk in?

I hope you're not feeling defensive to what I've said... because I certainly don't feel THAT way, I'm simply stating what the soccer moms, and non motorcycle affluent people think about many of the guys who ride motorcycles.

Why should you care what they think? You should care if they are the ones who could potentially be giving you a job. This is just me... but if I'm interviewing for a job (just the example we've touched on here), I'm more concerned about giving the best impression I possibly can. I think I have a fairly easy personality to work with, and I'm a hard worker. I think people see that in the interview, which is why I normally get the job. However, I'm secure enough in my personality that I don't need to show an interviewer who I want them to accept me as. I like wearing bell bottoms and disco shirts... haha... but I'm not going to come to an interview in one. I know that's a far reaching example, but suffice it to say, it's the only one I can come up with.

Regardless of whether or not the judgement is right or wrong, most people see bikers as people who are "loose cannons", or "free wheelers"... they see them as non-conformists. We're not talking about the older Canadians that buy the loaded Honda Gulwings and cruise down to South Florida for the summer.


So, anyway, if a person sees someone coming in for an interview, and they have a helmet, and the whole leather get-up... they're likely to think that there's going to be "baggage" that comes with this guy, and maybe won't hire them. As I said... maybe life is unfair, but first impressions stick with people, whether you like it or not. Of course, I personally know better, so I wouldn't let it affect my judgement. But... the reason it should matter is that not everyone is as normal as I perceive myself to be. Far more people are more impression oriented, whether they realize it or not. So... yeah, storage would be a good idea.

quote Originally posted by Falcon Fiero: Ninja 250 is too slow to be a safe vehicle on any highway.

This is a factually false statement.

quote Originally posted by MordacP: I have been looking at the Kawasaki Ninja 250R as a commuter/toy vehicle mainly because it gets 60MPG and suitable for a learner such as myself. The only thing i am afraid of is the living-with-a-motorcycle part. Right now i drive my fiero for everything, it only seats two and has limited cargo space but we have all found ways to live with it. It seems that a motor cycle seats the same number of people as a fiero, and has less cargo space unless you have an enormous backpack. Is living with a fiero much different than living with a motorcycle?

Do you have a license? What's your prior experience? If you haven't already, I highly recommend taking the MSF course; in many states it is mandatory now in order to get your motorcycle license.

I've got a 250, a pregen (old style) that I've put over 25,000 miles on in the last 25 months. Most of that has been highway commuting with several long distance in and out of state rides. My longest ride to date was over 800 miles each way, one day each, on major interstates, at speeds averaging over 75 mph. I didn't go faster because I didn't want to go more than 5mph faster than prevailing traffic speeds. The bike was capable of more. I have had zero problems getting on the freeway, passing, etc. None. Nada. Zip. I like my bike because I can ride 250 miles on $15 worth of gas. My only modifications have been a larger front sprocket to drop engine revs at highway cruise speeds and sport-touring tires. With the mods I'm getting 61-65 mpg routinely with average highway speeds of 70-75 mph. I've gotten as high as 69 mpg. It takes two quarts per oil change instead of five, tires (Kenda K671) are $110 (or less) for the pair shipped and last nearly 20K for the rear and 25K for the front. I've been keeping track of all my expenses including gear and should have everything paid off from fuel savings by the middle of next year. Maybe sooner when gas hits $4 again. And that includes rain gear, because I ride year 'round.

If you're a new rider, for the love of God, don't get one of the newer 600s or larger as a first bike. Those bikes are incredibly powerful, more like full-on race bikes ever so slightly detuned for the street. There are people out there who, for whatever talent/experience/luck reasons started off with one and were just fine, but there are far more stories out there about new riders getting killed on one due to minor mistakes that a smaller, less powerful bike would not amplify so badly. And ultimately for real world riding you can't use the full capabilities of a super sport for more than a few seconds without serious risk of jail* or death. The little 250 already goes faster than most sane people drive on the street and highway.

The most important thing to remember is, your first bike will not be the only bike you ever buy (though if you get a high HP modern bike it might be the last bike you ever buy).

*Many states are enacting "super speeder" laws that impose far heavier fines and penalties against people speeding at rates higher than average. For instance, in Georgia: http://www.superspeederlaw.net/

If you’re a Georgia driver, then you have probably heard about Georgia’s new Super Speeder Law, which went into effect on January 1, 2010. But do you know exactly what this new law means for you? Regardless of how often you drive, it is important that you familiarize yourself with the Georgia Super Speeder Law and the repercussions of breaking it.

Despite the state’s already hefty speeding fines, Georgia lawmakers have ruled that convicted “super speeders” should now be fined an additional $200 for excessive speeding. This is defined as driving above 74 mph on a two-lane road or above 84 mph on any road in the state.

While a $200 fine may not sound expensive, it is important to note that this amount is in addition to the regular citation fee. Although these fees vary from area to area, they typically range from one to several hundred dollars; in DeKalb County, for example, the fine for speeding 80 mph in a 55 mph zone is $267, while in the City of Atlanta, that same ticket will cost you over $400…and that’s before the $200 Super Speeder Fee is tacked on!

It doesn’t end there, however—under the new law, a super speeding conviction is equivalent to a reckless driving offense, which is a criminal misdemeanor. This means that if you are convicted of super speeding, your sentence may include additional fines, mandated drivers education, a license suspension, or even jail time. In addition, if anyone ever runs a criminal background check on you—a standard procedure for many employers—your super speeding conviction will show up.

Also like reckless driving, once you have been found guilty of super speeding, you will be deemed a “high-risk” driver by your automobile insurance company. What does this mean? Well, if your current policy isn’t dropped altogether, you can expect to pay an exorbitant amount of money for coverage.

http://www.azdps.gov/Media/News/View/?p=45

http://www.cartaste.com/dri...y/article-10907.html

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 04-18-2011).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: This is a factually false statement.

My 1973 Volkswagen Bus w/ 52hp is too slow to be safe on any highway.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: My 1973 Volkswagen Bus w/ 52hp is too slow to be safe on any highway.

Only 52? That's low, they sold new with 63 net hp. Zero to 60 was still relatively sluggish in the low 20 second range but top speed was more than adequate for highway use except for mountains. VW buses have a long and successful history being driven in this country and I still see the odd one here and there on surface streets and highways.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/volkswagen-bus6.htm

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Only 52? That's low

And that's only if you get the woman, to get out and push!

Jim

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Only 52? That's low, they sold new with 63 net hp. Zero to 60 was still relatively sluggish in the low 20 second range but top speed was more than adequate for highway use except for mountains. VW buses have a long and successful history being driven in this country and I still see the odd one here and there on surface streets and highways. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/volkswagen-bus6.htm

Hahah... yeah, that website isn't entirely correct, and when it comes to horsepower ratings, 1hp makes a huge difference in these cars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...wagen_Type_2_(T2)#T2

Wikipedia actually has the correct numbers, but I was being silly anyway. I have an 1800cc with hydraulic lifters. It's not original. Mine would have come with a 1700 CC motor, but mine had a rebuilt 1800 swapped in. I much prefer my 1800 with the hydraulic lifters to the ones that were sold with solid lifters. The engine was never REALLY designed with hydraulic lifters, so the lifters have to sit on their side. Because of this, the lifters tend to bleed out when not in use. I bought a really great set of Mahle (or whatever the more expensive German brand) lifters, and they tend to hold really well. The good thing of course is that I no longer have to adjust my lifters like I would if it had the non-hydraulic flat-tappets.

I have no idea what kind of horsepower mine has. Originally, it says I would have had 68 horsepower. When I got my Bus, it had a Pace-Setter dual exhaust system meant for the Porsche 914. They had the same engine, but Porsche did some small upgrades to the heads, and had a 5-Speed, but basically the same motor. I thought the exhaust was kind of obnoxious and loud for something that was clearly not fast, and if it DID improve horsepower, I wasn't noticing it. So, I installed a stock exhuast system, and powder coated it. Mine would have also come with a set of dual Solex carburetors, but when I got it, someone had swapped in a Webber 2-bbl Progressive. This gives much better lower and mid-range torque, but supposedly hurts the engines top-end power. (We're talking like half a second in the quarter, and maybe a 3-4mph top-end difference).

Since there's no tachometer, I have no idea when I'm pushing the limits of the Bus. I just know that 55-60 is pretty much all I'm comfortable driving before the motor sounds like it's really hurting.. so I won't allow myself to get over that speed. When I do drive it, I usually cruise around 35-40 simply becuase I just don't want to stress it.

I have a 4-Speed manual in it too, which isn't the greatest transmission... the shift from 1st to 2nd requires somewhat of an act of God to get it into gear. I've replaced everything, so I'm under the impression that perhaps the synchros might be shot. I was told the transmission was rebuilt though.


I've got a good solid core of a 2000cc motor from a 1979 Westfalia that I found in the junkyard. My goal is to one day build that engine with mid-range and upper rpm power in mind. I'd also like to swap in a 5-Speed from a Porsche 914. This will allow me to basically have 4-wheel disc brakes all around (instead of just disc brakes on the front), as well as a 5th gear so that I can drive a bit more "normal" on the highway (like around ~65, comfortably, with decent fuel economy). I don't know what it'll do for power... obviously not expecting to win races, but my goal is just to make the car a bit more streetable. I'm always concious of the fact that when I drive it around, people get very angry being behind it. The non car-people don't appreciate the fact that it's a VW Bus, and just get angry by the fact that there is a huge blue box in front of them that they can't see around, that's going very slow. So I get people riding my ass a LOT...


EDIT: They actually still make these guys in Brazil... but they're water cooled.

I'm almost of the impression that it would be cool to swap out the motor for this one:




This is the motor that they currently sell in the VW Bus (late 60s / 70s American VW Bus) in Brazil. It's a 1.8 liter straight 4 that's water cooled. Obviously, I wouldn't want to fit the big radiator onto the front of my Bus like the other guys do, but I'm sure I could fit some kind of radiator under the bus, and just have fans run on it all the time. I might even swap it out to an automatic, but I'm not sure... might not be worth the trouble. I'd just really like to get some semblence of modern driveability, while still maintaining the retro-nostalgic feel of the car. Since the engine is no longer original, and since I got it as a shell when I bought it, I'm not too concerned about the originality. I'm just not sure how much CHANGE I want on the car. I don't want to hurt the nostalgic feel of the car.

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 04-18-2011).]

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: Wrong, wrong, wrong. While I appreciate your foundness for speed and power, (we've seen your bike ) That statement is way wrong, and could lead a begginer to stay away from a bike that is plenty adequate. They can maintain highway speeds and excellerate faster than most cars. Certainly fastre than a 4 banger Fiero. A Ninja 250 is a great starter bike, but I imagine you would tire of it fast. Jim

Right, RIGHT, R I G H T !

You cant possibly think taking a 250 on a 75mph hwy is safe (where everyone does 85). Granted the Ninja CAN do 100, but it takes forever to get there. Also, any vehicle passing you will push your speed down. Anything that underpowered is unsafe @ hwy speeds.
I totally agree a 250 can be a starter bike, and I have to say it was fun as heck on twisty roads since its so light but they are not good for high speed traffic. You will just become a hazzard.

quote Originally posted by Falcon Fiero: Right, RIGHT, R I G H T ! You cant possibly think taking a 250 on a 75mph hwy is safe (where everyone does 85). Granted the Ninja CAN do 100, but it takes forever to get there. Also, any vehicle passing you will push your speed down. Anything that underpowered is unsafe @ hwy speeds. I totally agree a 250 can be a starter bike, and I have to say it was fun as heck on twisty roads since its so light but they are not good for high speed traffic. You will just become a hazzard.

Then the Fiero doesn't deserve to be on the highway according to your criteria. A 180 mph crotch rocket is much more dangerous than a Ninja 250. You can't possibly think that going 100mph, when everyone else is doing 65-70 is safe. There is nothing about the acceleration of a 250 that makes it dangerous. What makes a 250 dangerous is the same thing that makes a Hyabusa dangerous, they are motorcycles! In fact you probably have a better chance of living, dropping a bike at 75, than you do 100, 120, or certainly 180. Your logic is way off. There is nothing inherently more dangerous about a 250 versus any higher powered bike.

Jim

quote Originally posted by Falcon Fiero: Right, RIGHT, R I G H T ! You cant possibly think taking a 250 on a 75mph hwy is safe (where everyone does 85). Granted the Ninja CAN do 100, but it takes forever to get there. Also, any vehicle passing you will push your speed down. Anything that underpowered is unsafe @ hwy speeds. I totally agree a 250 can be a starter bike, and I have to say it was fun as heck on twisty roads since its so light but they are not good for high speed traffic. You will just become a hazzard.

Every single statement in this is factually incorrect. I have to believe that you're just trolling, because I can't see you accidentally being this ignorant of the 250's performance and safety on the highway. I don't know what words to use to say that you're any more wrong than what I've said so far.

Edit to do a line by line analysis...

quote Originally posted by Falcon Fiero: Right, RIGHT, R I G H T !

This line was mockery of jimbolaya saying "Wrong, wrong, wrong" in response to you saying "Ninja 250 is too slow to be a safe vehicle on any highway."

quote Originally posted by Falcon Fiero: You cant possibly think taking a 250 on a 75mph hwy is safe (where everyone does 85).

Here you (in a derisive manner) seem to be saying that riding a 250 on the freeway is dangerous, that everyone does 85. In fact, most freeways I've ridden on are set at 70 for the speed limit and most traffic (not "everyone") tends to be around 75-78 mph. The 250 Ninja handles these speeds effortlessly and can do them all day long. Speed variance ( the difference between your speed and the average speed) is a big factor in accidents. Going 5-15 mph faster or slower than prevailing speeds increases the chances of an accident by five-fold. So if you're in traffic whose prevailing speed is 75 mph and you're doing 75-80 you are at the lowest point of the risk curve. In other words, you're riding safely. Since the 250 Ninja can do this perfectly easy it means your contention is flat out wrong.

quote Originally posted by Falcon Fiero: Granted the Ninja CAN do 100, but it takes forever to get there.

It can actually go faster than that, but it doesn't matter how long it takes to get there because the moment you go over 5mph faster than prevailing traffic speeds your accident risk starts skyrocketing. In this case the "hazard" will be the fault of the rider, not the bike. A ZX14 can hit the danger zone a few seconds faster than the 250 Ninja, but I gotta ask, what's the point? Your statement is completely irrelevant to safety.

quote Originally posted by Falcon Fiero: Also, any vehicle passing you will push your speed down.

How so? I've found that in the rare case a vehicle passes me on my 250 Ninja that my speed is unaffected, and neither is my throttle position. I do find that there's a momentary bit of extra wind resistance pushing through the bow wave from a semi rig. But again, I rarely am passed since my 250 easily goes much faster than prevailing speeds. Again your statement is erroneous.

quote Originally posted by Falcon Fiero: Anything that underpowered is unsafe @ hwy speeds.

This is just you arguing your opinion as fact. Nothing more, and even as opinion it's incorrect.

quote Originally posted by Falcon Fiero: I totally agree a 250 can be a starter bike, and I have to say it was fun as heck on twisty roads since its so light but they are not good for high speed traffic.

Yes, it's a great starter bike, yes it's fun on twisty roads (for many more reason than just it's weight, BTW) but the third part of your sentence is just you arguing your opinion as though it was fact again. Repeatedly saying the same wrong thing over and over again does not make it right.

quote Originally posted by Falcon Fiero: You will just become a hazzard.

Sigh. Opinion != fact.

To summarize your post here, and on this subject in general: You are of the opinion that 250cc bikes are dangerous because you feel they're "underpowered". You have no facts or evidence to back up this opinion, so you substitute repetition instead in the hope that if you say it often enough people will think your opinion is in fact true.

It's not.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 04-20-2011).]

Ninja 250's create great riders; buy used, sell for what you paid

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: A 180 mph crotch rocket is much more dangerous than a Ninja 250. Jim

I didn't read the rest of your post because I had to jump in to disagree with this instantly...

quit blaming the bike. Its all about rider on any properly functioning motorcycle. If you run into a semi at 75 on a ZX12R you aren't any worse off than if you run into a semi at 75 on a 250 ninja. If you lay a 12r down and hit your head on a curb at 50, you aren't any worse off than if you fell off a 250 and hit your head at 50. If you are a competent rider, it doesn't matter if you have a 200hp 12r or a 60 hp kz650. However, when ridden by competent riders, a ZX12R or CBR1k or similar super bike can prove safer than any commuter bike. You can stop faster, accelerate faster, swerve faster, are more stable at highways speeds, et cetera.

I will say this... Having many miles on both a 1200 sportster and a Road King with an 88 cid engine, I would take a ninja 250 first for performance. Obviously the road king would be more comfortable, but the EX250 will run circles around it all day in braking, acceleration, and handling.

quote Originally posted by TommyRocker: I didn't read the rest of your post because I had to jump in to disagree with this instantly... quit blaming the bike.

Then you should have read the rest of the post. You are agreeing with my point. Don't blame the bike, it's the rider/driver. My comment about a 180 mph versus an Ninja 250 is just based on hitting something at that speed, not being able to control it or accelerate.

My last sentence of the post you quoted.

quote Originally posted by the incredibly handsome jimbolaya: There is nothing inherently more dangerous about a 250 versus any higher powered bike.

Jim

[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 04-18-2011).]

An idiot on 2 wheels will - quite likely - kill himself; however, that same idiot driving a car is more dangerous to others on the road than himself alone...

Food for thought - just let it digest.

I don't own a bike, and I haven't ridden one yet, but from what I've seen:

Fiero> bike as a primary vehicle. I know a guy that rides a CB1000 daily to school, and I don't envy him in the winter. I mean I too would LOVE to commute to work/ school on a bike, but especially if you buy a sportbike- it gets a little impractical. Sure you think that the Fiero doesn't have storage space and its not the most practical vehicle either- that big package of paper towels you need from the store- well you've got the passenger seat for that. The Fiero can still be driven in snow/ ice to an extent, not to mention having heat in the winter. It all depends if your willing to deal with the inherited responsibility and drawbacks of owning a bike- meaning become a VERY vigilant rider, understanding that you will need to have your gear with you at all times unless you've got a bike with storage, weather, etc. Good luck.

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: A 180 mph crotch rocket is much more dangerous than a Ninja 250.

Ok, I read it carefully this time and I don't understand your point fully. I do believe that at a steady speed with no obstructions, a 250 and a 1200 will be equally safe at 60mph. However, the superior braking, acceleration, and stability of a high performance bike, when properly harnessed by a competent rider, make it a better choice.

I know everyone always says "Start on a 2-fitty, those super monster bikes are too dangerous for the likes of you!!!" But I am of the mindset that if you can't handle a liter bike then you shouldn't be on 2-wheels on public roads.

however, if you don't plan on doing highway speeds too much and your sole reason for a bike is fuel savings, a used EX250 (older gen) is perfect. I know people will keep saying that is is fine at highway speeds, but simply being able to hit highway speeds doesn't mean its a good idea. Also, saying you were comfortable at 75 isn't clear indication that its a good idea. I was comfortable at 150 on my old Ninja, but that doesn't mean I should spend a large chunk of my commute there.

The EX500 is pretty much the same bike as the ex250 for your purposes but you will have significantly more power to use.

quote Originally posted by TommyRocker: Ok, I read it carefully this time and I don't understand your point fully. I do believe that at a steady speed with no obstructions, a 250 and a 1200 will be equally safe at 60mph. However, the superior braking, acceleration, and stability of a high performance bike, when properly harnessed by a competent rider, make it a better choice. I know everyone always says "Start on a 2-fitty, those super monster bikes are too dangerous for the likes of you!!!" But I am of the mindset that if you can't handle a liter bike then you shouldn't be on 2-wheels on public roads. however, if you don't plan on doing highway speeds too much and your sole reason for a bike is fuel savings, a used EX250 (older gen) is perfect. I know people will keep saying that is is fine at highway speeds, but simply being able to hit highway speeds doesn't mean its a good idea. Also, saying you were comfortable at 75 isn't clear indication that its a good idea. I was comfortable at 150 on my old Ninja, but that doesn't mean I should spend a large chunk of my commute there. The EX500 is pretty much the same bike as the ex250 for your purposes but you will have significantly more power to use.

Can you list some examples where being able to accelerate more quickly is safer? I mean, specific scenarios that you or someone you know has personally experienced? I'm trying to really understand why you honestly feel that the only way to be safe on the highway is with a high-horsepower bike. Cited examples from authoritative sites would be nice, too.

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: 2. wet is ok, cold is ok, but cold and wet is a b*tch

Agreed. I'm glad I have rain gear (which I didn't have until about a year ago), 'cuz it eliminates at least one of those problems.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:I hope you're not feeling defensive to what I've said... because I certainly don't feel THAT way, I'm simply stating what the soccer moms, and non motorcycle affluent people think about many of the guys who ride motorcycles.

Nah, no worries, I see your point, but just wanted to point out that it isn't always that way, and there's things you can do to combat it. I'm pretty confident that even the Ninja 250 has an on-bike helmet lock, so if you put the helmet and the jacket on that, you shouldn't appear like you just walked in off a bike, and if you're at an office they should both still be there when you come back (unlike my jacket a few years ago....stopped at a bar to catch the end of the basketball game and it was gone...guess somebody wanted it bad enough to rip it off the tag I'd hung it on...one of the many reasons I was looking solely at bikes with hard luggage)

In the interest of stopping the bickering between the guys who prefer displacement and the guys who don't, here's something useful:
Go take an MSF course. Go ride one of the 250s in the year range you're looking at. It doesn't have to be new, go test ride one on craigslist once you've got your license. If it's enough to move you at what you consider a decent speed, then great, go buy one. 250s are widely regarded as great starter bikes, and if you buy one used, you'll likely have no problems selling it at or near what you paid, especially if gas prices keep going up. If you ride it and it comes up wanting, then it may be in your best interest to start on something larger. If you feel, even in the slightest, that it doesn't have enough acceleration to get you out of trouble quickly enough, then move up. If you feel you'll tire with it in three months, then move up. If you feel it's completely comfortable, then, by all means, get the 250.

Some of us are heavier and need more power to move our fat asses. I'm certainly in that category, and that's one of multiple reasons that when I started I was looking at the 600-750 range....but then again, I was also looking at bikes nearing 10 years old, so they certainly couldn't be compared with the "new" bikes of that time. On top of that, I also wanted something I wouldn't tire of and sell in 6 months. I had a 50 mile (one way) commute that was nearly all freeway, and was glad I didn't start on a bike smaller than the '95 Katana 750 I settled on, and I rode it for 30k miles before selling it to go up to a Katana 1100. But then again, I'm 6'0" and #240, so I'm definitely overweight, and my commute was nearly all freeway. If you're #180 and don't get above 65, then I'm not confident you need a bigger bike to start with....but you need to ride one first to be sure. I can tell you I wouldn't have been happy with a 250. My buddy, who's slightly shorter and thinner, but not a whole lot, rode a 250 with no problems for much of last year, so it really comes down to personal preference. Some guys on the forum will have one opinion, others will have another, but only you can decide what's right for you.

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: In fact you probably have a better chance of living, dropping a bike at 75, than you do 100, 120, or certainly 180.

Of course, the same would be true of a crash in any car. But that's likely not your point, is it? As speed increases, the chances of surviving a crash decrease, and I doubt anyone on here will dispute that. However, another point that most people seem to be in agreement on is that as a motorcyclist, you need to watch out for "cagers", and be ready to react when one moves in a manner that threatens you, regardless of whether or not the movement was intentional. Whether this movement involves accelerating or decelerating will depend on the situation, but if the bike doesn't have enough power to accelerate when necessary, you've severely limited your options for escaping said crash event. Again, this is something that'll depend on personal comfort, particularly when riding whatever the stated bike is. In my fatass condition, after riding both a Nighthawk and a Rebel 250, as well as a Katana 600, I'm confident I'd have been uncomfortable on anything less than my 750. But again, that's just me, my commute, and perhaps even the way I learned to ride because of what I had available to me. I rode the 250s after I'd already sold the 750 for an 1100, so maybe I'm just used to an abundance of power.

No matter how much any of us want to preach our opinions, the best thing that MordacP can do is get on a Ninja 250 and asses it for himself.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Can you list some examples where being able to accelerate more quickly is safer?

How 'bouts when you pull out in front of a car going faster than it should be, and, rather being a grill ornament you can get out of the way ?

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 04-18-2011).]

I've personally had time when I've been stopped and almost rear-ended. Always stay in gear at red lights and scan your mirrors. Also, I've had times where the car in the lane next to me decides he wants to be where I am and Clicking 2 gears down and pulling in front of him was the only realistic option. I have ALSO had a few instances where erratic drivers made me feel it was unsafe to be around them, so quickly passing a few cars to create several tons of barriers between myself and him/her was my best choice. Merging on the highway when I don't want to get stuck behind a truck, it sure is nice to know that 0-75 is only a few seconds away.

quote Originally posted by TommyRocker: Ok, I read it carefully this time and I don't understand your point fully. I do believe that at a steady speed with no obstructions, a 250 and a 1200 will be equally safe at 60mph. However, the superior braking, acceleration, and stability of a high performance bike, when properly harnessed by a competent rider, make it a better choice.

Yes the 1200 is a better choice, but it does not make the 250 unsafe. Which is what Falcon Fiero originally said. That's all I, and several others I might add, are disputing.

quote Originally posted by Falcon Fiero Ninja 250 is too slow to be a safe vehicle on any highway.

IT IS NOT! This turning into a stupid pissing contest similar to caliber arguments with guns. Bottom line, Ninja 250's are not dangerous on the highway. PERIOD!

Jim