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Spice and K2 to be banned. by James Bond 007
Started on: 02-28-2011 10:02 PM
Replies: 47
Last post by: dennis_6 on 03-02-2011 01:07 AM
James Bond 007
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Report this Post02-28-2011 10:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for James Bond 007Send a Private Message to James Bond 007Direct Link to This Post
I read a brief post on the subject of Spice and K2 a few weeks ago,and come across this info today.Im not into the effects of Spice,K2 or pot.But I thought I would post this info,for those into that stuff.Buy it while you can because its going to be banned nation wide.I cant seem to find any current info,on that subject,even though I saw the news storey saying its going to be banned nation wide.
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Report this Post02-28-2011 11:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WhiteDevil88Click Here to Email WhiteDevil88Send a Private Message to WhiteDevil88Direct Link to This Post
That stuff needs to be banned IMO. Smoke real cannibis. It's much better for you.
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Report this Post03-01-2011 12:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KhwClick Here to Email KhwSend a Private Message to KhwDirect Link to This Post
Already been banned in Utah.
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Report this Post03-01-2011 12:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1988holleyformulaSend a Private Message to 1988holleyformulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by WhiteDevil88:

That stuff needs to be banned IMO. Smoke real cannibis. It's much better for you.


x2! Watched "The Union" last night. Makes me sad to be an American.

For anyone that has ever wondered at all about marijuana, this is a film to see.
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Report this Post03-01-2011 12:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tbone42Send a Private Message to tbone42Direct Link to This Post
MJ would be a great cash crop to help our economy... 60% of Americans surveyed believe it should not be illegal, and 74% believe it should be available for medical purposes. I think its time. I really do. I think the benefits, economic and medicinal, outweigh antiquated superstitions and roadblocks created by paper companies who own thousands of acres of forests and pharmaceutical companies who would rather sell you a pain pill at 5 bucks a pop.

After seeing the positive effects it had on my mother who was dying and in Chronic pain, I see no reason at all to keep at least medical MJ from being instituted nationwide. Not to mention potheads are the most docile, easy going people I have ever met (as a group) Our country could use less anger.

And I have not smoked in a looooooong time.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 03-01-2011).]

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1988holleyformula
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Report this Post03-01-2011 01:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1988holleyformulaSend a Private Message to 1988holleyformulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tbone42:

MJ would be a great cash crop to help our economy...



America is one of, if not the only, industrialized nation that doesn't produce industrial hemp. You can't even get high from industrial hemp!

The ignorance of the general public surrounding the subject of marijuana/hemp really makes me lose hope in our nation.
I'm gonna stop now or else my head will explode from sheer illogicalness of the whole issue.

grammatical edit.

[This message has been edited by 1988holleyformula (edited 03-01-2011).]

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Gridlock
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Report this Post03-01-2011 03:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GridlockClick Here to Email GridlockSend a Private Message to GridlockDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 1988holleyformula:


x2! Watched "The Union" last night. Makes me sad to be an American.

For anyone that has ever wondered at all about marijuana, this is a film to see.


Will watch the movie tonight, but must say as a resident of BC-you can have it. I absolutely hate the pot culture. I manage a building of 25 units, and i can tell you about 60-70% smoke pot at some point-and thats after I screen heavily to curtail it. I can't stand the smell, the idea that I should just back off because its BC, the shootings, the gang involvement, the destruction of rental houses to grow it. I hate it.

I hear the arguments for legalization, but I fear it as making it even worse. I've already seen it that the police won't do anything about personal use amounts.
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Report this Post03-01-2011 04:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Xerces_BlackthorneClick Here to Email Xerces_BlackthorneSend a Private Message to Xerces_BlackthorneDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tbone42:

MJ would be a great cash crop to help our economy... 60% of Americans surveyed believe it should not be illegal, and 74% believe it should be available for medical purposes. I think its time. I really do. I think the benefits, economic and medicinal, outweigh antiquated superstitions and roadblocks created by paper companies who own thousands of acres of forests and pharmaceutical companies who would rather sell you a pain pill at 5 bucks a pop.

After seeing the positive effects it had on my mother who was dying and in Chronic pain, I see no reason at all to keep at least medical MJ from being instituted nationwide. Not to mention potheads are the most docile, easy going people I have ever met (as a group) Our country could use less anger.

And I have not smoked in a looooooong time.



Quoted for posterity and agreement, however I will add to it and say that it wasn't just the paper companies and drug companies that lead to criminalization. it was also the textile industry and big oil. Blame it on William Randolph Hearst and Harry J. Anslinger (mainly the former since he held interests in paper, oil, and IIRC the textile industry, and used Anslinger like a puppet).

Look at Henry Ford. Early 1900's he built a car entirely out of hemp, that was powered by hemp oil and had hemp plastic panels 1000 times stronger than steel of the era (1921 I believe?).

My arguement for legalization/decriminalization is this: It'll never happen on a national level as long as Big Oil is pulling the strings and there is still black gold in the ground. By then I fear it'll be too late for industrial use and will set us back to the beginning of the Industrial Revolution technology wise. I also don't feel that it should be legalized for more than industrial and medicinal purposes (this means no recreational use for adults, which I support fully given the propensity for stupidity by our current young adults)


I'm glad to see they are doing away with Spice, K2, and all the other derivations (although the actual herbs that are in them are still readily accessible separately...) I agree with WD88 to a point that people should forget the synthetic crap (made in a lab under less than controlled conditions I may add) and smoke the real thing (which is much safer for you than that and alcohol combined. Humans and Cannabis have evolved together, and there is speculation that there are separate receptors in the brain for THC alone).

[This message has been edited by Xerces_Blackthorne (edited 03-01-2011).]

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Report this Post03-01-2011 05:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GandalfSend a Private Message to GandalfDirect Link to This Post
I'm amazed that this stuff hasn't been banned already - it was banned over 12 months ago in the UK. Its also horrible, the real thing is a lot more pleasant (Or so my pet pixie, Dave who speaks from experience says, I wouldn't know...)
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Report this Post03-01-2011 05:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Xerces_Blackthorne:


Look at Henry Ford. Early 1900's he built a car entirely out of hemp, that was powered by hemp oil and had hemp plastic panels 1000 times stronger than steel of the era (1921 I believe?).




http://www.hempcar.org/ford.shtml
1941 he built the car

Fuel:

* Farming 6% of the continental U.S. acreage with biomass crops would provide all of America's energy needs. 1
* Hemp is Earth's number-one biomass resource; it is capable of producing 10 tons per acre in four months. 1
* Biomass can be converted to methane, methanol, or gasoline at a cost comparable to petroleum, and hemp is much better for the environment. Pyrolysis (charcoalizing), or biochemical composting are two methods of turning hemp into fuel.2
* Hemp can produce 10 times more methanol than corn.
* Hemp fuel burns clean. Petroleum causes acid rain due to sulfur pollution.
* The use of hemp fuel does not contribute to global warming.


Food:

* Hemp seed can be pressed into a nutritious oil, which contains the highest amount of fatty acids in the plant kingdom. Essential oils are responsible for our immune system responses, and clear the arteries of cholesterol and plaque.2
* The byproduct of pressing the oil from hemp seed is high quality protein seed cake. It can be sprouted (malted) or ground and baked into cakes, breads, and casseroles. Hemp seed protein is one of mankind's finest, most complete and available-to-the-body vegetable proteins. 2
* Hemp seed was the world's number one wild and domestic bird seed until the 1937 Marijuana prohibition law. Four million pounds of hemp seed for songbirds were sold at retail in the U.S. in 1937. Birds will pick hemp seeds out and eat them first from a pile of mixed seed. Birds in the wild live longer and breed more with hemp seed in their diet, using the oil for the feathers and their overall health. 2


Fiber:

* Hemp is the oldest cultivated fiber plant in the world.
* Low-THC fiber hemp varieties developed by the French and others have been available for over 20 years. It is impossible to get high from fiber hemp. Over 600,000 acres of hemp is grown worldwide with no drug misuse problem.
* One acre of hemp can produce as much usable fiber as 4 acres of trees or two acres of cotton.
* Trees cut down to make paper take 50 to 500 years to grow, while hemp can be cultivated in as little as 100 days and can yield 4 times more paper over a 20 year period.
* Until 1883, from 75-90% of all paper in the world was made with cannabis hemp fiber including that for books, Bibles, maps, paper money, stocks and bonds, newspapers, etc. 2
* Hemp paper is longer lasting than wood pulp, stronger, acid-free, and chlorine free. (Chlorine is estimated to cause up to 10% of all Cancers.) 2
* Hemp paper can be recycled 7 times, wood pulp 4 times.
* If the hemp pulp paper process reported by the USDA in 1916, were legal today it would soon replace 70% of all wood paper products. 2
* Rag paper containing hemp fiber is the highest quality and longest lasting paper ever made. It can be torn when wet, but returns to its full strength when dry. Barring extreme conditions, rag paper remains stable for centuries. 2
* Hemp particle board may be up to 2 times stronger than wood particleboard and holds nails better.
* Hemp is softer, warmer, more water absorbent, has three times the tensile strength, and is many times more durable than cotton. Hemp production uses less chemicals than cotton. 2
* From 70-90% of all rope, twine, and cordage was made from hemp until 1937. 2
* A strong lustrous fiber; hemp withstands heat, mildew, insects, and is not damaged by light. Oil paintings on hemp and/or flax canvas have stayed in fine condition for centuries. 2


Medicine:

* Deaths from marijuana use: 0
* From 1842 through the 1880s, extremely strong marijuana (then known as cannabis extractums), hashish extracts, tinctures, and elixirs were routinely the second and third most-used medicines in America for humans (from birth through old age). These extracts were also used in veterinary medicine until the 1920s and longer. 2
* For at least 3,000 years prior to 1842 widely varying marijuana extracts (bud, leaves, roots, etc.) were the most commonly used real medicines in the world for the majority of mankind's illnesses. 2
* The U.S. Pharmacopoeia indicated cannabis should be used for treating such ailments as fatigue, fits of coughing, rheumatism, asthma, delirium tremens, migraine headaches, and the cramps and depressions associated with menstruation. 3
* In this century, cannabis research has demonstrated therapeutic value and complete safety in the treatment of many health problems including asthma, glaucoma, nausea, tumors, epilepsy, infection, stress, migraines, anorexia, depression, rheumatism, arthritis, and possibly herpes. 3
* Deaths from aspirin (U.S. per year): 180 - 1,000 +
* Deaths from legal drugs (U.S. per year) at doses used for prevention, diagnosis, or therapy: 106,000

Industry:

* Almost any product that can be made from wood, cotton, or petroleum (including plastics) can be made from hemp. There are more than 25,000 known uses for hemp.
* For thousands of years virtually all good paints and varnishes were made with hemp seed oil and/or linseed oil. 2
* Hemp stems are 80% hurds (pulp by-product after the hemp fiber is removed from the plant). Hemp hurds are 77% cellulose - a primary chemical feed stock (industrial raw material) used in the production of chemicals, plastics, and fibers. Depending on which U.S. agricultural report is correct, an acre of full grown hemp plants can sustainably provide from four to 50 or even 100 times the cellulose found in cornstalks, kenaf, or sugar cane (the planet's next highest annual cellulose plants). 2
* One acre of hemp produces as much cellulose fiber pulp as 4.1 acres of trees, making hemp a perfect material to replace trees for pressed board, particle board, and concrete construction molds. 2
* Heating and compressing plant fibers can create practical, inexpensive, fire-resistant construction materials with excellent thermal and sound-insulating qualities. These strong plant fiber construction materials could replace dry wall and wood paneling. William B. Conde of Conde's Redwood Lumber, Inc. near Eugene, Oregon, in conjunction with Washington State University (1991-1993), has demonstrated the superior strength, flexibility, and economy of hemp composite building materials compared to wood fiber, even as beams. 2
* Isochanvre, a rediscovered French building material made from hemp hurds mixed with lime petrifies into a mineral state and lasts for many centuries. Archeologists have found a bridge in the south of France from the Merovingian period (500-751 A.D.), built with this process. 2
* Hemp has been used throughout history for carpet backing. Hemp fiber has potential in the manufacture of strong, rot resistant carpeting - eliminating the poisonous fumes of burning synthetic materials in a house or commercial fire, along with allergic reactions associated with new synthetic carpeting. 2
* Plastic plumbing pipe (PVC pipes) can be manufactured using renewable hemp cellulose as the chemical feed stocks, replacing non-renewable coal or petroleum based chemical feed stocks. 2
* In 1941 Henry Ford built a plastic car made of fiber from hemp and wheat straw. Hemp plastic is biodegradable, synthetic plastic is not.


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GT86
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Report this Post03-01-2011 05:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GT86Click Here to Email GT86Send a Private Message to GT86Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tbone42:

MJ would be a great cash crop to help our economy... 60% of Americans surveyed believe it should not be illegal, and 74% believe it should be available for medical purposes. I think its time. I really do. I think the benefits, economic and medicinal, outweigh antiquated superstitions and roadblocks created by paper companies who own thousands of acres of forests and pharmaceutical companies who would rather sell you a pain pill at 5 bucks a pop.

After seeing the positive effects it had on my mother who was dying and in Chronic pain, I see no reason at all to keep at least medical MJ from being instituted nationwide. Not to mention potheads are the most docile, easy going people I have ever met (as a group) Our country could use less anger.

And I have not smoked in a looooooong time.



Agreed, but I'd take it even further. The so-called "War on Drugs" has been a dismal failure. We've clogged our courts and prisons with drug users, burdened our law enforcement with chasing after the stuff, we've passed all sorts of seizure laws that are abused, turned some inner city areas into war zones, made corruption and bribery rampant in some places, and made billionaires out of drug lords.

And for what? What are we getting out of all that? If anything, drug use is on the rise. The demand is still there, all we've done is make the supply side extremely violent and profitable. It appears we learned nothing from Prohibition.


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Report this Post03-01-2011 07:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Doni HaganSend a Private Message to Doni HaganDirect Link to This Post
At one time in the 70's or 80's, there were a few government-sanctioned hemp farms in the South....I think Mississippi.....for industrial use.

I wonder if they're still operative.
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Report this Post03-01-2011 07:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RamsesprideSend a Private Message to RamsesprideDirect Link to This Post
I look at it this way. In the near future i am going to be entereing the Law enforcment society and IMHO i fell that it would be a waste of my time and my paycheck to have to search cars looking for a plant. Cocaine, Meth, Heroin etc are all things that are banned and should be banned as THEY produce bad effects and kill many more people each year than Marijuana.

Oh and btw, i have never smoked MJ in any form, yes i have friends that grow and use it but that dosnt mean they are a bad person. One uses it to calm himself down before he takes his Insulin shots as he is deathly afraid of needles. (recently diagnosed with Diabetes.)
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Report this Post03-01-2011 09:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1988holleyformulaSend a Private Message to 1988holleyformulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gridlock:


Will watch the movie tonight, but must say as a resident of BC-you can have it. I absolutely hate the pot culture. I manage a building of 25 units, and i can tell you about 60-70% smoke pot at some point-and thats after I screen heavily to curtail it. I can't stand the smell, the idea that I should just back off because its BC, the shootings, the gang involvement, the destruction of rental houses to grow it. I hate it.

I hear the arguments for legalization, but I fear it as making it even worse. I've already seen it that the police won't do anything about personal use amounts.


Please don't generalize too much. I realize that a lot of smokers are worthless human beings, but its not because they smoke pot. Worthless people are going to be worthless whether they smoke or not.

Other than the smell of it (totally understandable, that's why I hate cigarettes!) your other grievances (shootings, the gang involvement, the destruction of rental houses to grow it) IS BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL!

Legalize it, and those things go away! Heck, your residents might even smoke outside so you don't have to worry about the smell so much! <-Too optimistic?

edit: don't take my exclamation points as yelling or being angry with you, I just see these things as logic, and it pains me that others don't. (though no fault of their own, its kinda hard to be educated on a subject that the government doesn't want you to know about)

[This message has been edited by 1988holleyformula (edited 03-01-2011).]

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Xerces_Blackthorne
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Report this Post03-01-2011 10:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Xerces_BlackthorneClick Here to Email Xerces_BlackthorneSend a Private Message to Xerces_BlackthorneDirect Link to This Post
Ok, so after a PM on the subject, I feel I need to make myself a bit more clear here.

I am in NO way supportive of legalization of cannabis for recreational use. Our current young adults (myself included at times) are morons, plain and simple, and are too damn irresponsible to shoulder such a burden. Anyone who has read my prior posts on this subject (over roughly the past 2 years) should see that. I do however feel that Spice/K2 should be banned and that if you want to do something like it that you should just smoke the real damn plant, as it is much safer and healthier for you. But again, I do not condone recreational cannabis use. I realize this is a contradiction, and my argument for that is that while I don't condone it, I can't change it. Free will and all, and simply put: The actions of others aren't my responsibility. I am responsible for no ones actions but my own. Not to mention that my views of what is right and wrong are subjective, so it doesn't matter. But that is an entirely different discussion for another time.

My position has somewhat changed in regards to this subject. After extended research, I have loosened my views on Industrial and Medicinal use. But again, I am still against recreational use.

On another note, Gokart, thanks for posting the above info. Its been awhile since I've looked into the dates, etc. on Henry Ford's biocar project, so I wasn't quite certain.

[This message has been edited by Xerces_Blackthorne (edited 03-01-2011).]

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css9450
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Report this Post03-01-2011 02:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:

Fuel:

Food:

Fiber:

Medicine:

Industry:



I don't really care whether its legalized or not, but its always fun to read the discussion and see how long before the "hemp can save the world" argument comes up.

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Report this Post03-01-2011 02:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tbone42Send a Private Message to tbone42Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by css9450:


I don't really care whether its legalized or not, but its always fun to read the discussion and see how long before the "hemp can save the world" argument comes up.


I dont know about that, but it could take a giant bite out of our economic problems by creating jobs and an industry as well as remove non-dangerous prisoners from jails, and reduce the DEA's budget by over half, thus reducing taxes.
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Report this Post03-01-2011 04:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TommyRockerClick Here to Email TommyRockerSend a Private Message to TommyRockerDirect Link to This Post
I don't smoke, never have and never will. I also tend to hate pot heads, the vast majority of them are useless people. Stoners just piss me off. All that said, I think this is akin to Prohibition and that whole debacle. Alcoholics suck too, but casual, responsible drinkers don't bother me so much...I like a cold beer on occasion, too. Legalize marijuana and it will wind up just like alcohol. How many moonshine runners and Al Capone types do you hear about any more? How many people are killed over stills and alcohol territories and what not?

Not to mention, hemp is gonna save the world....
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Report this Post03-01-2011 04:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 1988holleyformulaSend a Private Message to 1988holleyformulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by css9450:


I don't really care whether its legalized or not, but its always fun to read the discussion and see how long before the "hemp can save the world" argument comes up.


I know what you mean by this, and I get tired of people that exaggerate how much it would help, but the fact still remains that industrial hemp has numerous positive effects that it would bring to society, and what do we lose by legalizing it.

I really hate how it seems that much of the public doesn't even want to bring it up for discussion, much rather legalize it.
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1988holleyformula
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Report this Post03-01-2011 04:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 1988holleyformulaSend a Private Message to 1988holleyformulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tbone42:

as well as remove non-dangerous prisoners from jails, and reduce the DEA's budget by over half, thus reducing taxes.


That's another facet to bring up. There are 264 PRIVATELY owned prisons in America. Run by corporations that are making money off of people going to jail. These are the same corporations that lobby congress for stiffer penalties for smaller offenses. I'm sorry, but doesn't that seem a little ridiculous? I wish I could guarantee job security by lobbying congress.
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Report this Post03-01-2011 04:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
Here is an article on it.


WebMD Home Mental Health Center Mental Health News Email a Friend Print Article
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‘Legal Highs’ K2 and Spice Will Be Banned
Drug Enforcement Administration Has Declared the Drugs Illegal; Action Takes Effect in 30 Days
By Daniel J. DeNoon
WebMD Health News
Reviewed by Laura J. Martin, MD

Nov. 24, 2010 -- Legal highs soon will be illegal across the U.S., the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) said today.
The DEA is using its emergency powers to make K2, Spice, and other "legal high" herbal products Schedule I controlled substances -- that is, illegal drugs with no permitted medical use. The declaration will take effect after a mandatory 30-day waiting period, and will have the effect of law for at least a year.
Some 15 states already have banned some or all "legal high" products. When the waiting period expires, sale or possession of the substances will be a federal crime.
"When the final rule is published, it gives us the authority to do the same investigations as for any other controlled substance," DEA spokeswoman Barbara Carreno tells WebMD.
Specifically, the soon-to-be banned drugs are five designer drugs that mimic the effects of THC, the active ingredient in marijuana. The drugs are JWH-018, JWH-073, JWHY-200, CP-47,497, and cannabicyclohexanol.
"Legal high" products claim to be mixtures of herbs that can be smoked for a psychedelic effect. But the herbs listed on the package label often are missing from the actual product. Instead, the product contains a leafy mixture that is spiked with a designer drug -- usually one of the five drugs listed by the DEA.
The same product often is spiked with different doses of different drugs, making it impossible for users to know what they are taking.
Like THC, the active ingredient in marijuana and other forms of cannabis, these synthetic cannabinoids turn on the cannabinoid receptors (switches that trigger activity) found on many cells in the body. The brain is particularly rich in the CB1 cannabinoid receptor.
But most synthetic cannabinoids are quite different chemical structures from THC. And unlike cannabis, which has been used by humans for millennia, the new drugs have never been tested in humans.
JWH-018 was first made for experimental purposes in 1995 in the lab of Clemson University researcher John W. Huffman, PhD.
"Nobody knows anything about how these new compounds act in the human body. Anecdotal reports say they stick around in the body for quite a long time," Huffman told WebMD earlier this year.
The DEA says the American Association of Poison Control Centers has received more than 1,500 calls relating to products spiked with these designer cannabinoids. The calls came from 48 states and the District of Columbia.
The drugs appear to come from foreign sources. The DEA says that U.S. Customs in 2010 has intercepted multiple shipments of two of the drugs, including one shipment of over 50 kilograms.
For more information on K2, Spice, and other "legal highs," see WebMD's FAQ.
http://www.webmd.com/mental...-legal-highs-illegal

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 03-01-2011).]

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Report this Post03-01-2011 04:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 1988holleyformulaSend a Private Message to 1988holleyformulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TommyRocker:
I also tend to hate pot heads, the vast majority of them are useless people. Stoners just piss me off.


I know, I hate Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Ted Turner, James Cameron, Bill Murray, Jeff Bridges, Malcom X, Usain Bolt (one of the fastest men alive?), Phil Jackson, Sarah Palin, Barack Obama, John Denver, and all of those other useless people.

I don't have a list of the business executives and non-celebrity types that smoke, because they could lose their jobs admitting to something like that.

Thanks for the blanket statement though.
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NickD3.4
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Report this Post03-01-2011 05:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NickD3.4Click Here to Email NickD3.4Send a Private Message to NickD3.4Direct Link to This Post
: prohibition of marijuana has been a long- time debate. While there are valid arguments to both sides, this issue should be addressed. In 1934 Marijuana became taboo and illegal in the U.S. It would be wise to go back and figure out just why this substance has continued to be illegal. In 1934 virtually no- known facts had been made on Marijuana use. There was, however, plenty of outlandish claims that we know today are not true, i.e. people going insane and on violent rampages. Marijuana provides criminal syndicates with massive capital, and continues to fund their violent campaigns against the governments. Marijuana is the most used street drug and yet it is more mild then the effects of alcohol. Alcohol causes sclerosis of the liver, promotes violent behavior such as rape or fighting, promotes drunkenness, numbs the mind, is the number one major contributing factor to Domestic Violence, and kills an estimated 40,000 per year (Alcohol Alert, 2010). The same cannot be said about Marijuana. Marijuana calms people, does not promote aggression, and has less destructive effects on the body and society then that of alcohol. The fact one substance is viewed acceptable while the other is not should be greatly scrutinized. If marijuana were made legal, the cartels would lose much of their power, and the states could tax marijuana to combat real threats, such as hard drugs like meth and heroin, drugs that have been shown to have a devastating effect on both the user and society, drugs that do promote violence and crime. As of now, the only violence associated with marijuana is street crime in order to push the substance. This is a direct result of prohibition. Alcohol had the same polarizing effect in the 1920-30’s during prohibition with massive wars between mafias and law enforcement. Very similar, in fact, to what is happening now on the border.
The war on Drugs is a serious issue that must be addressed. The best thing to do would be to start over. Determine what drugs should or should not be illegal, the possible effects, and outcomes. Define an enemy and target that enemy, then figure out the best means to combat this enemy. It is important to make sure decisions and laws are not being made for arbitrary reasons, but there is, in fact, good, logical reasoning behind what we do. This will ensure a balanced approach to the war on drugs and ultimately prevent us from throwing good money after bad. Could you imagine if the U.S. government legalized and then taxed marijuana? Cartels would lose billions in street value, which results in loss of power. They would be forced to compete with a free market enterprise, something that cannot be done. When prohibition was lifted, Mafias had to move on to other means of racketeering, because alcohol was no longer profitable. This would force the drug cartels to push more hard drugs, i.e. meth, heroin, crack, and cocaine. Their market would drop in size; the users of these hard drugs are nowhere close to the casual user of marijuana. The money made through taxation of marijuana could be utilized to fight cartels and violence associated with proven drugs of destruction. While initially, this may sound as an extreme measure, the more you look at the markets and who gains power from what, it may not be so extreme after all.

When I became an officer, I realized that the only crime that marijuana promoted, was caused by the fact it was illegal. All the crime surrounding marijuana, i.e. murder, violence, gang violence, theft, etc. is all propagated by the fact its illegal. Because its illegal it has value. If it were legalized, there would be no incentive for any of the above stated crimes to take place concerning marijuana.

[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 03-01-2011).]

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Nurb432
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Report this Post03-01-2011 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Nurb432Send a Private Message to Nurb432Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Xerces_Blackthorne:

Ok, so after a PM on the subject, I feel I need to make myself a bit more clear here.

I am in NO way supportive of legalization of cannabis for recreational use. Our current young adults (myself included at times) are morons, plain and simple, and are too damn irresponsible to shoulder such a burden.



Ok, fair enough, not for kids ( which i agree btw ) but what about for adults then? Alcohol is legal. Why not pot? Why not mushrooms? Or conversely why is ANYTHING legal?

Why should an adult not have a right to ingest on their own time whatever they want? ( and i'm totally against recreational drugs myself, but i'm totally for an adults right to hide in their own house and do them if they like... )
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1988holleyformula
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Report this Post03-01-2011 05:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 1988holleyformulaSend a Private Message to 1988holleyformulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Nurb432:


Ok, fair enough, not for kids ( which i agree btw ) but what about for adults then? Alcohol is legal. Why not pot? Why not mushrooms? Or conversely why is ANYTHING legal?

Why should an adult not have a right to ingest on their own time whatever they want? ( and i'm totally against recreational drugs myself, but i'm totally for an adults right to hide in their own house and do them if they like... )


I know it sounds crazy, but where I grew up, it was a lot easier to get a dime bag than alcohol/cigarettes if you were under 18/21. Heck I'm 20 in college now, and its still easier to get a bag of pot than a 1.75 of Ron Diaz.

So I know its kinda out there, but could legalizing it help keep it out of the hands of children?
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Report this Post03-01-2011 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Nurb432Send a Private Message to Nurb432Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TommyRocker:
How many people are killed over stills and alcohol territories and what not?



It happens. 'stills' are still out there, due to taxation, not legalization.
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Report this Post03-01-2011 05:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tbone42Send a Private Message to tbone42Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Nurb432:


It happens. 'stills' are still out there, due to taxation, not legalization.


I'm going to make on e this summer with a friend so we dont have to buy the everclear to make our Applejack.
yummmmmmmm

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 03-01-2011).]

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Report this Post03-01-2011 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tbone42Send a Private Message to tbone42Direct Link to This Post

tbone42

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quote
Originally posted by tbone42:
Not to mention potheads are the most docile, easy going people I have ever met (as a group) Our country could use less anger.



 
quote
Originally posted by TommyRocker:

I also tend to hate pot heads, the vast majority of them are useless people. Stoners just piss me off.


ROFL

What a 1-2 punch.
I know plenty of potheads that not only have jobs, but work hard to "earn" that buzz at the end of the night. You need to know different potheads and not "after-school-specials". For some, its like motivation.. makes them clean their house and car, for others, they become worthless while high and laze around. Evryone is different, but I get sick of the stoners who cant handle their high either.. I never partied with bubblegummers, though.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 03-01-2011).]

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Report this Post03-01-2011 06:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TommyRockerClick Here to Email TommyRockerSend a Private Message to TommyRockerDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 1988holleyformula:


I know, I hate Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Ted Turner, James Cameron, Bill Murray, Jeff Bridges, Malcom X, Usain Bolt (one of the fastest men alive?), Phil Jackson, Sarah Palin, Barack Obama, John Denver, and all of those other useless people.

I don't have a list of the business executives and non-celebrity types that smoke, because they could lose their jobs admitting to something like that.

Thanks for the blanket statement though.



Way to read only part of the post, genius.

I thought comparing stoners to alcoholics and stating that casual users are not in the same field made it pretty obvious what I was talking about.
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Report this Post03-01-2011 06:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TommyRockerClick Here to Email TommyRockerSend a Private Message to TommyRockerDirect Link to This Post

TommyRocker

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quote
Originally posted by tbone42:


ROFL

What a 1-2 punch.
I know plenty of potheads that not only have jobs, but work hard to "earn" that buzz at the end of the night. You need to know different potheads and not "after-school-specials". For some, its like motivation.. makes them clean their house and car, for others, they become worthless while high and laze around. Evryone is different, but I get sick of the stoners who cant handle their high either.. I never partied with bubblegummers, though.



I think I need to do some research and find out what the useless stoners are technically called, because apparently my comparison to the differences between alcoholics and casual/social drinking didn't translate well to drugs. Is there really only one class of pot smoker? I figured it would make sense to separate the ones who do nothing but sit around and get stoned from the ones who are just smoke on occasion, similar to the distinction between alcoholics and a guy who has a few beers here and there. So whats the term I should use for the useless stoners?
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Report this Post03-01-2011 06:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Nurb432Send a Private Message to Nurb432Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 1988holleyformula:


I know it sounds crazy, but where I grew up, it was a lot easier to get a dime bag than alcohol/cigarettes if you were under 18/21. Heck I'm 20 in college now, and its still easier to get a bag of pot than a 1.75 of Ron Diaz.

So I know its kinda out there, but could legalizing it help keep it out of the hands of children?


I think in the long run it would reduce its use by kids. I was a kid once too, and if it was something you could get at the local store it wouldn't have been as cool.

Are we talking 90% reduction? No.. perhaps 10%. But i don't see it getting worse.
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Nurb432
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Report this Post03-01-2011 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Nurb432Send a Private Message to Nurb432Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TommyRocker:


Is there really only one class of pot smoker?


Not at all.
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1988holleyformula
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Report this Post03-01-2011 06:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 1988holleyformulaSend a Private Message to 1988holleyformulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TommyRocker:
Way to read only part of the post, genius.

I thought comparing stoners to alcoholics and stating that casual users are not in the same field made it pretty obvious what I was talking about.


Sorry, I apologize for not realizing the difference between a "stoner" and someone who casually smokes pot.
I actually read your post and thought it sounded like it was contradicting itself, can we call it a misunderstanding over the internet?

I have been called a pot head, stoner, and other derogatory terms just because most people use those terms for anyone who smokes a little marijuana.

The main part of my post was to try to show that the vast majority of pot smokers are not completely useless.

I think we can agree that "burnouts" are useless.

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Report this Post03-01-2011 06:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TommyRockerClick Here to Email TommyRockerSend a Private Message to TommyRockerDirect Link to This Post
I will try to remember the term "burnout" as the appropriate term for the useless ones...

Man, this is going to get confusing on a car forum...
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Report this Post03-01-2011 07:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scottzilla79Send a Private Message to Scottzilla79Direct Link to This Post
I have a libertarian view point on drug use but I hate when people say marijuana is harmless. THC alters the chemistry of the brain. Here is a Time article.
http://www.time.com/time/he...8599,2005559,00.html
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1988holleyformula
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Report this Post03-01-2011 07:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 1988holleyformulaSend a Private Message to 1988holleyformulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Scottzilla79:

I have a libertarian view point on drug use but I hate when people say marijuana is harmless. THC alters the chemistry of the brain. Here is a Time article.
http://www.time.com/time/he...8599,2005559,00.html


That's a pretty interesting article, thanks for sharing. Though I wouldn't say altering the chemistry of the brain is harmful. I am just glad that this research is being done, and that it is being done in an unbiased way, unlike most marijuana "research" that has been done in the past.

I wasn't around in Reagan's time, but I feel that a lot of the population took his statement:

"The most reliable scientific sources say permanent brain damage is one of the inevitable results of the use of marijuana.”

as truth. I'm not saying this about you, just trying to educate in general.

But the only reason he said this is because of a study done on rhesus monkeys where gas masks were strapped to them and pumped massive amounts of smoke into their lungs with no oxygen. Then when they examined the brains of the monkeys and found dead brain cells, they attributed it to marijuana smoke, and not the fact that they were being deprived of oxygen for up to 5 minutes a day for 3 months.

Its this kind of misinformation that led to the criminalization of marijuana and continues to keep the public wary and very anti-marijuana.
http://www.electricemperor..../EMP/15/ECH15_03.HTM

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Jonesy
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Report this Post03-01-2011 07:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JonesySend a Private Message to JonesyDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TommyRocker:
So whats the term I should use for the useless stoners?


I dunno, but this useless stoner can think up of pleanty of terms to call you..


Well i work 12 hours a day, and i have two college degrees, but im just a lazy useless stoner..

After my 12 hour shift, i like to come home, and take a few hits off the bowl, and its instant relaxation after a long hard stressfull day. Keeps me sain, and keeps me from acting like a total A-hole.. Maby you should try it Tommy, could do a would of good for that attitude towards others you have..

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Report this Post03-01-2011 07:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KhwClick Here to Email KhwSend a Private Message to KhwDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 1988holleyformula:


I know what you mean by this, and I get tired of people that exaggerate how much it would help, but the fact still remains that industrial hemp has numerous positive effects that it would bring to society, and what do we lose by legalizing it.

I really hate how it seems that much of the public doesn't even want to bring it up for discussion, much rather legalize it.


Industrial hemp and the pot you smoke to get high are 2 different animals.
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82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post03-01-2011 07:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Direct Link to This Post
I was never a fan of K2s... I always prefered Elan, or Rossignol... or heck, even Nordica.

Man, I used to think I was so awesome on the slopes back in the day... I had a pair of Elan RC-Pros, and a pair of Nordica Syntech ski boots with the little pump that would fill bladders around the base of the ankle, and in front of the shin. Oh man... they were awesome. I kicked soo much ass on the slopes. We used to compete regionally. I was in Team France (don't laugh), which was one of only 2 teams at our school (Eaglebrook) that actually used to compete with the other schools like Mt. Vernon, etc... in Massachusetts.


Sigh... the last time I went skiing like 4 years ago, I totally sucked. I wedged for like the first hour until I could get the hang of it... and then I fell like 3-4 times (hard core with the ski smacking me in the face) just trying to go down the hill once in a speed run.

It's hard to go from being awesome at something, to suddenly really sucking bad at something...

Totally random, I know... but you guys were talking about K2s and even though I don't know anything about drugs, I do know about ski equipment.


EDIT: As Charlie Sheen would say... that's how I roll...

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 03-01-2011).]

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tbone42
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Report this Post03-01-2011 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tbone42Send a Private Message to tbone42Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

I was never a fan of K2s... I always prefered Elan, or Rossignol... or heck, even Nordica.

Man, I used to think I was so awesome on the slopes back in the day... I had a pair of Elan RC-Pros, and a pair of Nordica Syntech ski boots with the little pump that would fill bladders around the base of the ankle, and in front of the shin. Oh man... they were awesome. I kicked soo much ass on the slopes. We used to compete regionally. I was in Team France (don't laugh), which was one of only 2 teams at our school (Eaglebrook) that actually used to compete with the other schools like Mt. Vernon, etc... in Massachusetts.


Sigh... the last time I went skiing like 4 years ago, I totally sucked. I wedged for like the first hour until I could get the hang of it... and then I fell like 3-4 times (hard core with the ski smacking me in the face) just trying to go down the hill once in a speed run.

It's hard to go from being awesome at something, to suddenly really sucking bad at something...

Totally random, I know... but you guys were talking about K2s and even though I don't know anything about drugs, I do know about ski equipment.


EDIT: As Charlie Sheen would say... that's how I roll...


That's funny right there. Totally off-topic, but not.
I was always scared of skiing.. tried it once...it seemed like I would crash and nearly kill myself, so I was a real wuss about getting any speed, even on the bunny hill.
I would probably fry when Im supposed to pizza.


On an on-topic note, you dont want to do spice or K2 anyway. Weed is better, cleaner, and costs the same. And now, just as illegal.
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