We here in Europe are watching in ever growing dismay how the US is destroying ecosystems and wildlife by not doing what needs to be done to stop this oil spill. We have the technology to contain the spill. The US government knows this yet they do not want our help.

quote translated from a Dutch news article: While the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico is starting to take on catastrophic proportions, the American government still hasn't called upon the Dutch expertise to clean up huge oil spills, or asked for the equipment that can do this. According to European specialists, valuable time is lost by "messing about" with inferior methods like using nylon stockings filled with human- and dog hair to suck up the oil. BP, responsible for the oil spill, hans't made any effort yet contacting European experts. Instead they tried to catch the oil using an upside down funnel - which failed miserably. Gert Kampers from the dutch company Koseq, and inventor of a special ship that "sweeps up" oil can't understand the US unwillingness to call for help. "They are now using 568 ships in vain for something we can successfully do with only 4 ships. Just one of our ships can clean up about 9,000 cubic feet of oil every hour. That's almost 40,000 cubic feet per hour using 4 ships. And that's the amount being spilled by the leaks. BP also chooses to use chemicals which has as a side effect that some of the oil doesn't rise to the surface. That's downright criminal and extremely dangerous to the environment." Both the Dutch government and the European Union are eager to help but can only wait until the Americans ask them to. "It's all very sensitive", says Tom Achterberg from Koseq. "The Americans rather try to solve their problems themselves. They are too embarrassed to call for outside help. We've tried to contact them but it has proven to be nearly impossible to get in contact with the right persons. We are ready to help and they know it, yet we still haven't received a request to do so. We have the equipment, the ships and the expertise. But all we can do is watch from the sideline."

Obama's arrogance.

Bingo, and please don't judge the American people by our government (not claiming you are), they stopped caring what we thought a long time ago.

[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 05-27-2010).]

I'm trying to figure out if it's an arrogance thing, or if it's a "Hey, see? Drilling is bad! Oil is bad! Look what it does to the environment! We can't have oil! Oil is baaaaaaaaad!"

After all, windmills don't kill baby seals. Birds sure, but they aren't worried about that.

quote Originally posted by pHoOl: I'm trying to figure out if it's an arrogance thing, or if it's a "Hey, see? Drilling is bad! Oil is bad! Look what it does to the environment! We can't have oil! Oil is baaaaaaaaad!" After all, windmills don't kill baby seals. Birds sure, but they aren't worried about that.

Yeah, I mentioned in another thread that I suspect green peace might have had something to do with it.
Maybe its both.

Could be a little of both. First, there is pride and arrogance going on here. It would not be good politically for any US leader to ask Europe for assistance. To be honest, I think Americans like to feel superior to Europe. Maybe not all, but enough. One of the current textbook issues is over the teaching of "American Exceptionalism" which looks a lot to me like a hyperactive superiority complex. So going to the Europeans for help might be perceived as crawling to the Europeans for help.

Obama's warm overtures towards Europe have already been cast as a sign of weakness on his part, just in his attempts to smooth relations. (I don't want to turn this into an Obama foreign policy discussion. I am just saying that to Obama, he feels what he has been doing is to repair alleged damaged relationships, I know some would disagree).

Anyway, I suspect that is a factor.

Proof of the dangers of off shore drilling is another. Expanding off shore drilling is a huge topic, and one that Obama is not really in favor of but has been pressured into going along with in a limited scope. Suddenly, he has a huge disaster to use to rally support against increased off shore drilling due to the economic and environmental dangers it poses. So there is certainly a political motivation.

I suspect many reasons "we" haven't requested help but sit in dismay and shock that my government has not taken more significant steps. I am not qualified to say if any method is best but, I am not confident in our leadership. Both trust and friendship are earned, enough said.

We force oil companies to drill in depths much greater than necessary because we don't want to see the drilling rigs. We claim we want to be energy independent from other's oil but, we won't allow what is necessary. We are simply lacking in leadership. Our economy and life style depends on energy that is here and accessible but, we allow some to deny that opportunity because we don't want it in our backyard. Mr. Obama's failure will effect us long into the future. Yeah, I'm not a fan.

Ron

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Obama's arrogance.

Not in the least. As others eluded too its being used as an 'example' of why oil is bad. Didn't anyone notice the plans to expand oil drilling went poof instantly? Or now congress is calling for even more restrictions?

I wont say it was intentional like some really paranoid people have suggested, but i don't doubt for a second that they aren't capitalizing on the event to try to sway public opinion to support their agenda..

Here in Maine we have all kinds of clean-up / containment equipment & people on standby ready to get to the Gulf. All they need is an invite from BP. Otherwise, they cannot help.
I don't understand why the government hasn't already pushed BP aside. Guess it shows just how powerful 'Big Oil' is to this government!

------------------
86 GT
87 coupe restoration project.

quote Originally posted by nmw75: . I don't understand why the government hasn't already pushed BP aside.

Because the minute that they do, the govt becomes responsible and they know it. They also know they lack the expertise.

Cliff, I can't really answer your question, but if the offer were to be tendered directly to the States of La, Ala and Fla, I suspect it would be accepted immediately.

Also, do you guys still keep a Durch boy around--------- to plug leaks?
BP would pay him big bucks right about now.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Because the minute that they do, the govt becomes responsible and they know it. They also know they lack the expertise. Cliff, I can't really answer your question, but if the offer were to be tendered directly to the States of La, Ala and Fla, I suspect it would be accepted immediately. Also, do you guys still keep a Durch boy around--------- to plug leaks? BP would pay him big bucks right about now.

I suspect that Don is correct but, if what I've read previously is correct, BP's financial responsibility is limited. The US Taxpayer is going to end up picking up the tab anyway.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 05-27-2010).]

the greenies are saying there is a world oil shortage and in a number of years no one will have the crued to make Gasoline or diesel .
The world transport industry is grinding to a halt.
Hey I can see why
its now in the ocean, and they are taking their time to plug it up.
Or is the hole idea of running out of oil , a hold lot of B.S.

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: We here in Europe are watching in ever growing dismay how the US is destroying ecosystems and wildlife by not doing what needs to be done to stop this oil spill. We have the technology to contain the spill. The US government knows this yet they do not want our help.

Ugh... I hate this news article...

I wish they wouldn't say "Americans" but rather "the American administration"... it's unfortunate that Obama has to be the one to represent us because we don't all feel that way. After Katrina... President Bush (throuh committee) hired numerous Dutch contractors to oversee the redesign and repair of the levys in New Orleans... and you know what? The next Hurricane that came through there (the one that everyone has already forgotten) caused no major flooding.


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Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 05-27-2010).]

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Ugh... I hate this news article... I wish they wouldn't say "Americans" but rather "the American administration"... it's unfortunate that Obama has to be the one to represent us because we don't all feel that way. After Katrina... President Bush (throuh committee) hired numerous Dutch contractors to oversee the redesign and repair of the levys in New Orleans... and you know what? The next Hurricane that came through there (the one that everyone has already forgotten) caused no major flooding.

It was also a relatively minor hurricane--not implying the designs were flawed tho--just that they really haven't been put to the test.

Another reason foreign companys haven't been 'invited' in, is the jobs picture. If Dutch or European companies were used, the public would howl to no end about more $ being spent overseas, instead of here.

The truth is, as far as taking over pluging the leak, no one else wants it--NO ONE. I suspect the feds have already asked other oil companies to step in with their expertise and they most likely politely declined and I can't say I blame them.

The spill cleanup is different tho. They could hire someone else, but it would be a political hot potato to do so.

quote BP's financial responsibility is limited.

Ron--I don't think that wll turn out to be the case this time--partly because of BP's public announcements (several times) that they would pay for ALL cleanup costs. And, there is always the punitive aspect--a possible $4000/bbl fine--- for every barrel of oil spilled into the Gulf.

If the government and BRITISH Petroleum will not ask then I will..................

CLIFF AND THE DUTCH -- PLEASE HELP!!!!!

Seriously, I think this has gone on long enough. I don't know what Barry Hussein is playing at but methinks this could have been handled better, and quicker!

[This message has been edited by tutnkmn (edited 05-27-2010).]

well, how can you help? what is anyone else going to do which isnt being done?
it is not like there are multiple underwater oil fountains - only one. how many groups of conflicting ideas you want to crowd around it?

maybe we should start this Q with: Who is in charge?
is "British Petroluem" a US corporation? is the fountain in USA waters?
I've genericly looked at the Gulf of Mexico as US waters - but - I know that would not be accurate.

They don't want to clean it up. They want a large disaster as they can get so they can "redistribute the wealth" by sueing BP and everybody attached to to them into oblivion. A leftist dream.

[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 05-27-2010).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: It was also a relatively minor hurricane--not implying the designs were flawed tho--just that they really haven't been put to the test. Another reason foreign companys haven't been 'invited' in, is the jobs picture. If Dutch or European companies were used, the public would howl to no end about more $ being spent overseas, instead of here. The truth is, as far as taking over pluging the leak, no one else wants it--NO ONE. I suspect the feds have already asked other oil companies to step in with their expertise and they most likely politely declined and I can't say I blame them. The spill cleanup is different tho. They could hire someone else, but it would be a political hot potato to do so.

Well, you might know more than I do, but everything I read and saw about that last hurricane showed that the waters had risen to the top of the levys and were spilling over (causing minor flooding), but the levys NEVER failed or gave way during that second hurricane... unlike what happened during Katrina. The Dutch expertise was used to complete the redesign and repair of the levys to a great extent. They worked DIRECTLY with the Army Engineers.

Because the liberal news media is so ridiculously stupid, this made almost no news. As a matter of fact, about the only place I could find this was on commentary and non-American websites:

http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/89816672.html


Bush had NO problems asking the Dutch for help... they have hundreds of years of experience in this territory.

I don't really think it has anything to do with labor since honestly, it's not like they're going to ship in 100s of Dutchmen to start working on the levys... they made the plans, and our workers did it.

Little known fact too is that the Dutch handle a significant amount of oil tanker and platform repairs. I want to say something like 75% of the crew and corporations that handle platform repair are done by a Dutch crew... so it wouldn't surprise me that they can handle it.

Second of course only to the fact that entire eco-systems are getting destroyed... is the fact that Obama is getting a free pass on this. No one seems to really be questioning whether or not he's doing enough, whether his administration is at fault, or whether or not it was through incompetence that this was allowed to transpire. Even environmentalists who are upset with what's happening don't want to criticize him...

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

quote Originally posted by Wichita: They don't want to clean it up. They want a large disaster as they can get so they can "redistribute the wealth" by sueing BP and everybody attached to to them oblivion. A leftist dream.

And banning future drilling.. "see we told you it wasn't safe"

Well when it comes to this particular disaster, Obama is screwed no matter what he does.. If he doesnt take action, then he will be blamed for that.. But if he jumps in and has the government take over the situation, then he will be accused of socializing the oil industry and get hammered for that.. So, from what i can tell, Obama is letting the private sector deal with the matter, and when they fail, then he will have the government swoop in for the rescue..

Thats my prediction anyway..

quote Originally posted by Jonesy: Obama is screwed no matter what he does.. If he doesnt take action, then he will be blamed for that..

One would think. I initially thought the same thing.

Admittedly, I hardly ever watch the news. So someone else will have to tell me.

HAS Obama been getting hammered for his inaction to this point.

Because I CAN almost guarantee you that if Bush was president when something like this was going on, he would be getting HAMMERED right now from the press.

So...those of you that watch the news: is Obama getting hammered in the press right now?

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: One would think. I initially thought the same thing. Admittedly, I hardly ever watch the news. So someone else will have to tell me. HAS Obama been getting hammered for his inaction to this point. Because I CAN almost guarantee you that if Bush was president when something like this was going on, he would be getting HAMMERED right now from the press. So...those of you that watch the news: is Obama getting hammered in the press right now?

has there ever been presidential intervention on an oil spill?
I dont seem to remeber anything with the Exxon Valdez either - but that was 20 years ago....
this certianly is not the first oil spill. tho - it is the first underwater gusher, isnt it?

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: has there ever been presidential intervention on an oil spill? I dont seem to remeber anything with the Exxon Valdez either - but that was 20 years ago.... this certianly is not the first oil spill. tho - it is the first underwater gusher, isnt it?

I know congress and the EPA/etc got involved, but not sure about the president.

Me and a client were just talking about this.

He says (and I agree) that we are no longer represented by officials in Washington D.C. This is not the same America that he grew up in, and he's embarrassed to have these people speaking for him (he's 80).

"We are America, we used to be able to build faster, go further, and do better, with less than anyone else in the world. Now we stand to the side and complain. We apologize to everyone for stuff we didn't even do, or care about. All of our money, our work, and our ability to make money is going to other countries, where they are using all these things to make fun if us. We went from a super power to this crap in a generation. Instead of fixing problems the Government creates more problems."

There was more in the conversation, just the cliff notes.

Brad

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: We here in Europe are watching in ever growing dismay how the US is destroying ecosystems and wildlife by not doing what needs to be done to stop this oil spill. We have the technology to contain the spill. The US government knows this yet they do not want our help.

Here is your answer, Cliff. The man we've elected to represent us is driven by his need for power. He will use ANY means at his disposal to achieve his goals. This catastrophe is very fortunate for him as he can now restrict offshore drilling to satisfy his supporters.

If we were allowed to drill more onshore, or in shallow water, the danger of this kind of accident would be so much reduced.

[This message has been edited by texasfiero (edited 05-27-2010).]

Thanks Cliff I have forwarded your artical to Lamar Alexander and demanded he take action immediately.

Wonder just what might happen if those sweeper ships happen to wonder over and start cleaning up the slick without being ask??

Here is a page translated by Google that everyone can send to other English speakers:

http://translate.google.com...n.html&sl=auto&tl=en

Are you guys offering to do it for free?

Because as far as I know, BP is paying for the cleanup, and this isn't a government job.

So..... talk to BP.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 05-27-2010).]

Obama can't ask because he is going on vacation.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Obama's arrogance.

X2. The 'Great One' can figure this out on his own. (sarcasm and a great deal of it.)

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Obama can't ask because he is going on vacation.

I heard him quoted yesterday saying "we won't rest until this is done" or some such crap. So...will he delay his vacation?

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: We here in Europe are watching in ever growing dismay how the US is destroying ecosystems and wildlife by not doing what needs to be done to stop this oil spill. We have the technology to contain the spill. The US government knows this yet they do not want our help. [QUOTE]translated from a Dutch news article: While the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico is starting to take on catastrophic proportions, the American government still hasn't called upon the Dutch expertise to clean up huge oil spills, or asked for the equipment that can do this. According to European specialists, valuable time is lost by "messing about" with inferior methods like using nylon stockings filled with human- and dog hair to suck up the oil. BP, responsible for the oil spill, hans't made any effort yet contacting European experts. Instead they tried to catch the oil using an upside down funnel - which failed miserably. Gert Kampers from the dutch company Koseq, and inventor of a special ship that "sweeps up" oil can't understand the US unwillingness to call for help. "They are now using 568 ships in vain for something we can successfully do with only 4 ships. Just one of our ships can clean up about 9,000 cubic feet of oil every hour. That's almost 40,000 cubic feet per hour using 4 ships. And that's the amount being spilled by the leaks. BP also chooses to use chemicals which has as a side effect that some of the oil doesn't rise to the surface. That's downright criminal and extremely dangerous to the environment." Both the Dutch government and the European Union are eager to help but can only wait until the Americans ask them to. "It's all very sensitive", says Tom Achterberg from Koseq. "The Americans rather try to solve their problems themselves. They are too embarrassed to call for outside help. We've tried to contact them but it has proven to be nearly impossible to get in contact with the right persons. We are ready to help and they know it, yet we still haven't received a request to do so. We have the equipment, the ships and the expertise. But all we can do is watch from the sideline."

[/QUOTE]

Obama needs the American economy to fail so he can convert us over to socialism. This oil spill is putting a lot of private sector jobs out of business and his plan is to get them to run to the government for a job. The environment is a small price to pay to convert the US over to socialism.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: has there ever been presidential intervention on an oil spill?

It seems you want to talk logically and factually about this topic. Hey, I'm right with you then. It isn't the president's job to intervene in an oil spill per se.

Using logic and fact, it wasn't Bush's job to handle the Hurricane Katrina situation. It was local and state government's job. Bush's role was via FEMA, which was to supply funding and supplies to the citizens and local and state governments.

Instead of that factual discussion, the democrats and the media turned it into a failure on the president's part even though it was never his job to intervene.


So why isn't Obama getting the same unfair treatment in the media is my question. It isn't like I don't already know the answer.


This IS BP's job to fix and pay for. However, due to the prolonged situation of them NOT fixing it, and due to the potential environmental impact, I do believe the government has a right to step in and demand action, and to offer help.


So...indeed, why hasn't Obama in this situation where he actually COULD do something to help the situation, not done it? And why hasn't he been endlessly grilled with questioning about it?

(or has he? I don't know since I don't watch the 'news')

Now, I definitely think Obama has been an idiot in most cases, but I try not to bash him on every account. He's our leader, and I trust that nothing completely outrageous will happen while he's in office.

That being said, he needs to get off his high horse and fix this problem.

Obama doesn't want to ask for help, because if he can eventually fix it, with just the U.S. and BP, then he's the "savior". No matter how many fish/birds/dolphins die in the process. If he asks for help he's not the strong leader we all (except for those of us who were enlightened...) thought he was.

HOWEVER, it is a sticky situation. Like someone posted above, BP is covering these costs. Will the Dutch also do this for free? I wish we hadn't've already been throwing money that we don't have out to all of these "programs", but now we are in a very large financial crisis, as far as our debt goes. We don't have the money to clean this up anymore... Personally if we are going to just keep inventing money out of thin air, now seems like the time to do it. But I'm no president, and I can't claim to have the knowledge about how all of that works.

I do believe that Obama wants to plug up this hole as soon as possible, whether purely for political gains or for real caring for our gulf states. And I hope this doesn't cause a fear of drilling.. I'm studying to be a Petroleum Engineer.... that would NOT be good.

As I understand it, the President is limited in what he can do because of legislation passed after the Exxon Valdez disaster. BP is totally responsible for the spill and clean-up costs. If the U.S. stepped in, BP liability would be reduced by at least 50%. If the Dutch want to help they should contact BP.

quote Originally posted by spark1: If the Dutch want to help they should contact BP.

Which we did. We got the "don't call us, we'll call you" answer. Which they didn't.

quote Originally posted by spark1: As I understand it, the President is limited in what he can do because of legislation passed after the Exxon Valdez disaster. BP is totally responsible for the spill and clean-up costs. If the U.S. stepped in, BP liability would be reduced by at least 50%. If the Dutch want to help they should contact BP.

This is not the case. I heard on the news just the other day that the US Government is not stepping in because they believe that BP is more capable to handle the situation than the Government. BP has the equipment to work at 5,000 feet down and the Government does not. At the surface is a different story.

From what i saw in the news they plan to dumb a bunch of concrete into the ocean where the oil is leaking out. Talk about a bandaid on a broken leg.

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: From what i saw in the news they plan to dumb a bunch of concrete into the ocean where the oil is leaking out. Talk about a bandaid on a broken leg.

Not exactly. They are going to stuff thousands of gallons of "mud" and concrete INTO the drilled hole. That would be stronger than the original earth removed to get to the oil.