The mood of the electorate has really become almost frantic. Yeah, I know I hold very strong ideological/political views, but in my entire life, I have never heard or experience the political mood trends then I do now.

I'm not that old, but I am 32. I've been following politics and current events since I was a small child. For many, many year I've listen to talk radio, read political commentary and current event publications and the list goes on. And I'm talking about going back to the 1980's, when I followed the Iran-Contra affairs to the collapse of the Soviet Union. Hell, I even remember the bombing of Libya.

But never, as of now, had I heard so much talk and public sentiment of actual secession or even revolution happening in the USA.

Has the polarization become so bad that we as a country have gone to the point that our drastic political/ideological differences has become intolerable?

Look, I now leftism is a horrible political regime to live under. And I know some people couldn't live without the patronage of a socialist system. But is it really that bad? Will the left totally destroy the political system in the USA and cause the secession of states to form their own country?

I don't know, but people are sure talking about it.

A question for those who have lived longer than me: Is this the worse political climate you have ever seen?

Maybe it is from living in NY, but I have not been hearing much talk about revolutions or secessions around here. People are unhappy about taxes, budget deficits, and the like. However, there doesn't appear to be much of a major push to arms or anything like that. Then again, NY is typically a very blue state too, and as such maybe more inclined to be accepting of the current political situation in DC.

As someone that was involved in the "riots" of the late '60's and early 70's, I can honestly say I have not seen it quite this, umm, shall I say, interesting. Many people are going into what I like to call "survival mode", and are willing to do whatever it takes to survive.
This coming summer is going to be a very intersting one.

Probably time for the silent majority to make a noise.

I do not see anything good coming out of all of this, and I am worried. Not for myself, but for all you younger guys with families, like my children now have. The government is not the solution, it is the problem. Just watch cspan for a couple of days and you will see what I mean. I cannot believe these are the people that are getting elected. Republican and Democrat. Politics has just become a popularity contest.

I am neither a Democrat or a Republican. I am an American from the United States of America. We do not have representation for the average person. We are the middle and boring, and not worth the air time or ink. The top and the bottom only seem to be getting the attention and we are paying the price.
Lost jobs, lost futures, lost hope. I feel for my people. Simple, hard working, average Americans. I know, I am living it.

Watch out for this summer, things are going to happen....... just a gut feeling.
Hope I can remember how to farm again...... and I hope I am wrong, but history tells me different.

[This message has been edited by railshot (edited 03-06-2009).]

I'm pretty sure we settled this issue sometime around 1865.
You guys lost an election.
The current administration is doing the best they can to repair the damage caused by the previous administration.
I promise that the world isn't coming to an end.
That isn't the way things work here.
Just get over it already.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 03-06-2009).]

A little revolution now and then is a good thing; the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Neptune has promised so don't worry about it.
PS **** the left.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: I'm pretty sure we settled this issue sometime around 1865. You guys lost an election. The current administration is doing the best they can to repair the damage caused by the previous administration. I promise that the world isn't coming to an end. That isn't the way things work here. Just get over it already.

I guess we can only blame ourselves. Because the electorate is so woefully ignorant that they elect leftist and bad politicians to office, over and over again.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: The current administration is doing the best they can to repair the damage caused by the previous administration.

As long as people believe stupid BULLSHIT like this, the problem with NOT be solved.

No, this is not the worst political climate; Watergate was a disaster. Most of the country didn't trust the president. As for people talking about secession, not around here (Detroit.) But anybody who does, there is a word for people like that: during the revolution, they were called Tories. During the Civil War, they were called rebels. Any way you look at it, the word that fits is - traitor.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: I'm pretty sure we settled this issue sometime around 1865. You guys lost an election. The current administration is doing the best they can to repair the damage caused by the previous administration. I promise that the world isn't coming to an end. That isn't the way things work here. Just get over it already.

You have become quite convinced that everything that is said is a result of how the election came out. This is not true. As you have told me--"your better than that".

It has very little to do with who is in the White House, and has a LOT to do with erosion of all freedoms--increasing taxes--increasing federal control--NAFTA--CAFTA-increasing illegal immigration--and just a host of other issues.

The country has changed in the last 2-3 decades--slowly--almost imperceptively--but the change has been there--creeping up on all of us.


The damage was done during the last 4-6 administrations. I'm no longer sure there IS any 'fixing it'.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-06-2009).]

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: I promise that the world isn't coming to an end.

You also said you wouldn't post in political threads anymore. So why should I believe anything you say?

Jim

[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 03-06-2009).]

Depends which authority you accept as having the final say so. To be honest, any state 'can' secede, tho few (if any) actually have that right written into their constitutions anymore--as Texas once did. If you accept only the federal version of things--then no, they cannot secede. Even if they had a constituionally bound right to do so, the fed would do everything in their power to prevent it--based at least in part on potential lost income tax revenues from that state. Yes--Texas can split itself into as many as 5 different states. No--by agreement, they can no longer secede--depending who you talk to. They supposedly gave up that right after the US paid Texas $10 million dollars.
http://www.snopes.com/history/american/texas.asp

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Depends which authority you accept as having the final say so. To be honest, any state 'can' secede, tho few (if any) actually have that right written into their constitutions anymore--as Texas once did. If you accept only the federal version of things--then no, they cannot secede. Even if they had a constituionally bound right to do so, the fed would do everything in their power to prevent it--based at least in part on potential lost income tax revenues from that state. Yes--Texas can split itself into as many as 5 different states. No--by agreement, they can no longer secede--depending who you talk to. They supposedly gave up that right after the US paid Texas $10 million dollars. http://www.snopes.com/history/american/texas.asp

Thanks, my question was mainly about separating into 5 different states.

Jim

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: I'm pretty sure we settled this issue sometime around 1865. You guys lost an election. The current administration is doing the best they can to repair the damage caused by the previous administration. I promise that the world isn't coming to an end. That isn't the way things work here. Just get over it already.

The first event ravaged this country so bad it took a century for the country to heal.
The policies of this idiot may ravage this country so bad it may take two centuries for it to heal.
Tell the millions of Americans who's life savings have been wiped because of his socialist policies completely tanking the market, to "get over IT".
Oh yea I forgot the left hates wealth so don't bother.

[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 03-06-2009).]

quote Originally posted by fierobear: As long as people believe stupid BULLSHIT like this, the problem with NOT be solved.

exactly the problem
the extremists on both ends will NEVER see the light
the only way thru this is to eliminate the extremists
what is needed is leaders with interest in making the USA a better place, and not just satisfy themselves, and their ego. these azzhats pushing & pulling with no concern except to prove themselves 'right'.

we got this guy saying 'the damage from the previous administration'. the other guy saying 'BS'. which is it? then you'll get the excuse makers saying its "this" or "that" congress...senate....yada yada yada - endless. Buncha stupid whining kids. grow the fukc up. They say what you want to hear, and you eat it up. you will end up with whatever makes them the most money. that is it. if a republican can make money off a welfare bill - he's all for it. if a democrat can make money off a war, he's all in.

your teams are all in your head. and thier goals & mission are make beleive. their talk is just talk.

divide & conquer. you idiots rolled right over.

If the current administration is doing their best, then their best isn't good enough and they should step down and put the correct people in place. Maybe it will be Brad Pitt.... he had a private meeting with Obama... sigh...

No, the world won't end, but the USA will never be the same, and frankly, we will all be worst off with a socialist government (well, except may Neptune, he will probably benefit from the "spreading of wealth). The rest of the people who made this country what it once was would never be able to do it again. The USA is the land of opportunity and now with big government socialism, those options are hindered. I blame the people of the country, not the administration. I blame those lazy idiots who voted for big government. Those same individuals are the ones who bought a house they couldn't afford and now they want the government to fix their problem. Lazy... pure simple lazy, stupid people.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: I'm pretty sure we settled this issue sometime around 1865. You guys lost an election. The current administration is doing the best they can to repair the damage caused by the previous administration. I promise that the world isn't coming to an end. That isn't the way things work here. Just get over it already.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: I'm pretty sure we settled this issue sometime around 1865. You guys lost an election. The current administration is doing the best they can to repair the damage caused by the previous administration. I promise that the world isn't coming to an end. That isn't the way things work here. Just get over it already.

Ask the south about the "war of Northern Agression" I'm sure you'll get a different opinion.

No the election wasn't "lost" they (the GOP) didnt even try.

And as for the current regime trying to fix the mess of the previous administration? What mess? That mess (housing bubble and the WMD findings) WERE [started and found]UNDER CLINTON..... NOT BUSH.

If anything, Bush was cleaning up **** caused by slick willie while Monica was attached to his third member...

Of course we could go on this all day. but ill now surrender the floor to people who wish to talk

And I'll get over it when Comrade Obama is out of office and the South has equal representation in the US congress....

(steps back to mike)

Don't get me started on Congress....

[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 03-06-2009).]

As of now, most of the proposed funding has only been proposed, allocated, earmaked, but not actually spent or put into action (the bank and part of the auto bailout excepted). Will any of this work?--I don't know. And, in answer to the post above, I am not sure there is anyone available who knows for certain how to fix the problems. I do know that consumer and investor confidence is at an all time low--too much uncertanity, and until that part is 'fixed', nothing will get any better. The current administartion and it's cabinet--imo--has done a very poor job of presenting details, shoring up confidence, and restoring financial order. These need to be addressed immediately or we will continue to see a precipitous drop in both the stock market and public consumerism/confidence. We have moved 180 degress-from freewheeling spending/credit use to the opposite: Hoarding to the max. Hunkered down waiting for something--anything to make itself public knowledge. Worst of all possible actions IMO.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: ...We have moved 180 degress-from freewheeling spending/credit use to the opposite: Hoarding to the max. Hunkered down waiting for something--anything to make itself public knowledge. Worst of all possible actions IMO.

Knowing what the situation is now...
If you wanted a new car, and could make a sizeable down-payment, and could afford the payments, would you buy one?

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 03-06-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Knowing what the situation is now... If you wanted a new car, and could make a sizeable down-payment, and could afford the payments, would you buy one?

if you can - this IS the time to buy. you damn near get a blowjob with every purchase over $500

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Knowing what the situation is now... If you wanted a new car, and could make a sizeable down-payment, and could afford the payments, would you buy one?

Nope, not just yet.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: consumer and investor confidence is at an all time low--too much uncertanity, and until that part is 'fixed', nothing will get any better. The current administartion and it's cabinet--imo--has done a very poor job of presenting details, shoring up confidence, and restoring financial order.

Anything you could do now, you could do tomorrow.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: I'm pretty sure we settled this issue sometime around 1865. You guys lost an election. The current administration is doing the best they can to repair the damage caused by the previous administration. I promise that the world isn't coming to an end. That isn't the way things work here. Just get over it already.

Keep playing the fiddle Nero.

Republicans should just accept they lost the election and get over it.
Just like the Democrats did in 2000 and 2004.

Secessioin and revolution? I doubt it. But I wouldn't be surprised to see riots.

So everyone should just relax. You have Neptune's word everything will be ok, and his promises are just as binding as Obama's.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Republicans should just accept they lost the election and get over it. Just like the Democrats did in 2000 and 2004. Secessioin and revolution? I doubt it. But I wouldn't be surprised to see riots. So everyone should just relax. You have Neptune's word everything will be ok, and his promises are just as binding as Obama's.

LOL

Of course , there is always the possibility some idiot with a gun....

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Knowing what the situation is now... If you wanted a new car, and could make a sizeable down-payment, and could afford the payments, would you buy one?

Bought one last year. And 2 Indys. Started building my house in November 08--move in date tenatively set for 1st week of Apr. Bought another 17.4 acres of land in Dec 08. I'm moving the local economy along all by my lonesome it seems.
But--I paid cash for everything--did not go into debt. I turned down the bank's mortgage offer. Have been debt free for over 20 yrs and intend to stay that way.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-06-2009).]

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: You guys lost an election. The current administration is doing the best they can to repair the damage caused by the previous administration. I promise that the world isn't coming to an end. That isn't the way things work here. Just get over it already.

Before when we lost an election, the stakes were 38% income tax on the top earners versus 32% if a republican won.

The world isn't coming to an end, but the original U.S. way of life is.

Here are some doozies:

You had a president run an entire campaign on "character doesn't matter." That had an influence on a generation.
Now you have a president run an entire campaign on "if you were successful, it was because you ripped someone off, or you got all the breaks" and if you weren't successful, it was "bad luck". So we (the government) are going to correct all these inequities by taxing and redistributing.

So he gets into office and wants to set aside capitalism and start wholesale socialism to avert "the crisis". Well, in actuality, it was never a crisis. To be sure, it was going to be a very difficult time, just like it was in the early 1980's.

But in 1980, we had a president who was confident in the individual american citizen, if only government would get out of the way.

Now we have a president who says ONLY government can fix this "crisis".


Well, this country was founded on LIMITED GOVERNMENT because we were the land of the FREE and the home of the BRAVE. We could face WHATEVER came along, if just we were left alone to work things out.


But no. We get people like you who say the CURRENT administration is doing the best they can to repair the damage caused by the PREVIOUS administration.


Well THAT makes a lot of sense. I'll be bipartisan here. BOTH sides were involved in the "previous administration" in creating this damage. DEMOCRATS controlled congress. REPUBLICANS the presidency.


So according to you government got us in this problem. And now you really trust THEM to get us out of it? Really? Think about that for a minute. Oh, well, but now it is Obama. Yeah. Like he is anything special. He is a glorified community organizer. Doing the "best he can".

Come on. Seriously. You haven't already been able to tell from the first couple of months that he doesn't have a clue what he is doing? Let me give you just ONE example. He says we have to get cash into the economy and get things stimulated. It must happen NOW. OK. So some investment groups do BUSINESS AS USUAL. They reward their earners with meetings and trips to, say, Las Vegas. It is what they have always done. It stimulates the Las Vegas economy. Hotels. Restaurants. Casinos. Creates jobs. Airlines to get them there. Rental cars. Etc. Good for the economy. Obama should be FOR that.

Oh. But wait. We have to have class envy, too. These greedy people can't do their business like that. They have to STOP THAT. OK. So he brow beats them into canceling trips. What do you think that does to all those industries??? Oh. Well, apparently Obama didn't THINK of that.

Well, no kidding. Because he doesn't THINK. He just has "policies". He has "ideas". He has no idea how to implement them. He has no idea how to predict unintended consequences. Because he has never actually DONE anything in his life.


But you are happy because they are "doing the best they can". Oh, brother. Like trotting out 4 tax cheats? Best they can. Good one.


But he IS going to change the U.S. long term. Because he has already created a generation of voter who will vote for socialism, and income redistribution, and abandonment of personal responsibility. Just like Lyndon Johnson created an entire SOCIETY of single welfare moms with one program invention, that now has fostered GENERATIONS.


But, yeah, we'll just get over it. We'll just continue to sink into a second class socialist state like most of Europe has already done and seems to finally be awakening to and lamenting.


But you won. Congratulations.


Regarding the thread, there will be no secession and revolution. It isn't practical. And ultimately unnecessary. Our country has lived through this before. As I have said previously, Barack Obama is just the urban, hip-hop version of Jimmy Carter. The country will be so fed up with these "policies" and "doing the best they can" in 4 years, that the republicans will be able to find someone like Ronald Reagan. And Ronald Reagan really didn't "fix" the country. He just believed in the REAL, free and brave U.S. citizens left, and energized them and got government out of the way enough that THEY "fixed" the country.

I THINK there are enough of those people left to turn things around in 2012. I sure hope so. I really liked the ideals of the originators of this country, and what it had produced.

Read the 10th amendment some states are pushing for it.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Keep playing the fiddle Nero.

Look who's talking. This message from the morons that caused this mess. Real estate agent, republican, economist in training. Puhhlleeease!! Yeah go ahead and explain how Reaganomics and Bush continuations had nothing to do with it even if they dominated the policy and political landscape for most of the last three decades.

I will have to come back to this thread, hopefully before the trashcan. Maybe you all can be civil enough for that to happen?

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: As for people talking about secession, not around here (Detroit.) But anybody who does, there is a word for people like that: during the revolution, they were called Tories. During the Civil War, they were called rebels. Any way you look at it, the word that fits is - traitor.

And during the revolution these Tories, err traitors, did what exactly? This nation was founded by those traitors. The ones that threw off the bonds of unfair taxation and representation. They departed from the British Monarchy. You say traitor as if it is something someone should be ashamed of.

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Look who's talking. This message from the morons that caused this mess. Real estate agent, republican, economist in training. Puhhlleeease!! Yeah go ahead and explain how Reaganomics and Bush continuations had nothing to do with it even if they dominated the policy and political landscape for most of the last three decades.

Glad to see you are back.
And your guys is doing a bag up job so far. I might call it "crimes against humanity.

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Look who's talking. This message from the morons that caused this mess. Real estate agent, republican, economist in training. Puhhlleeease!! Yeah go ahead and explain how Reaganomics and Bush continuations had nothing to do with it even if they dominated the policy and political landscape for most of the last three decades.

Yep--welcome back to the guy that was beggin for years for home values to drop.
You got it--was it all you dreamed it would be?

Revolution talk yes, secession talk, no.

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Look who's talking. This message from the morons that caused this mess.

Would that be the moron that passed the Community Reinvestment Act?
Or the morons in the banks who made loans under the CRA to people who couldn't afford them?
Or the morons who sued banks like Citibank for not making enough CRA loans to low income people?
Or the morons who blocked any attempts at trying to enact some accountability and regulation of Fannie Mae BEFORE they went tits up?
Or the moron who said with a straight face that he passed a stimulus bill free of earmarks - a remark so laughable that his OWN party literally laughed out loud - on national TV - when he said it.
Or the moron who said the stimulus package was needed right now because every month 500 Million Americans are losing their jobs?

Or the moron who thinks it was all George Bush's fault?

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: I'm pretty sure we settled this issue sometime around 1865. You guys lost an election. The current administration is doing the best they can to repair the damage caused by the previous administration. I promise that the world isn't coming to an end. That isn't the way things work here. Just get over it already.

Many of us don't see this as a simple 'lost election' but instead a fundamental shift of governmental philosophy, in the wrong direction. For those that believe in true freedom as crafted by our founding fathers, yes the world is ending.

quote Originally posted by Nurb432: Many of us don't see this as a simple 'lost election' but instead a fundamental shift of governmental philosophy, in the wrong direction. For those that believe in true freedom as crafted by our founding fathers, yes the world is ending.

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Look who's talking. This message from the morons that caused this mess. Real estate agent, republican, economist in training. Puhhlleeease!! Yeah go ahead and explain how Reaganomics and Bush continuations had nothing to do with it even if they dominated the policy and political landscape for most of the last three decades.

I have a better idea, especially given that you cannot prove a negative. How about YOU show us precisely how Reaganomics and Bush caused this financial crisis. Quotes from real economists would be a big plus.

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: No, this is not the worst political climate; Watergate was a disaster. Most of the country didn't trust the president. As for people talking about secession, not around here (Detroit.) But anybody who does, there is a word for people like that: during the revolution, they were called Tories. During the Civil War, they were called rebels. Any way you look at it, the word that fits is - traitor.

In regards to traitors, traitors to what? America and freedom, the constitution? Who and their followers is the traitor to that right now?

I don't think most of the country trusts this president.