the guy is in the middle of restoring it, its ready for paint, needs a few interior parts to complete it, has the original 400.. I'll probably find out some more tomorrow, he's asking $1200 (could probably get it for $1000), also has a 455 he'd throw in for another $800..

What do ya think? sorry, not alot of info but just trying to get an idea.

Is it an automatic or a 4 speed?
IIRC, only the 4 speeds came with "real" Pontiac 400s. The automatics were Olds 403s, which made the 4 speeds more sought after.

If everything is there, and it's not in any worse shape than it sounds, then it's probably well worth it.
Check the front and rear windowsills, floorboards, trunk floor, quarters, rockers, and anywhere else that rust can hide.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Is it an automatic or a 4 speed? IIRC, only the 4 speeds came with "real" Pontiac 400s. The automatics were Olds 403s, which made the 4 speeds more sought after. If everything is there, and it's not in any worse shape than it sounds, then it's probably well worth it. Check the front and rear windowsills, floorboards, trunk floor, quarters, rockers, and anywhere else that rust can hide.

he "says" there is no rust, but I havent been able to take a close look yet for myself. I'm pretty sure its an auto so I guess its probably the 403. everything isnt there but most is. (things I could get on yearone or a junk yard maybe)

on NADA it books for 9k+ after its done, just trying to get an idea of some real numbers.. not that I'm getting it to sell, but I'd rather be able to atleast sell it for what I pay for it..

looks like it might be worth paying the extra $800 for the other motor too... the 403 sounds quite underpowered

[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 02-01-2009).]

If it is not a rusted out pile of crap, it is worth it.

Check out http://www.transamcountry.com
They specialize in 2nd Gen Trans Ams. You'll get expert advice as well as sources for any parts, etc. you might need.

You say it has the original "400". Is it a Pontiac 400 or the Oldsmobile 403? If it's the Pontiac 400, it has the W-72 package, which means it should also have the 4-speed manual and WS-6 suspension and is DEFINITELY worth the money as long as it has the original drivetrain parts and isn't a rust bucket. The '79 W-72 is likely to be the next TA to skyrocket as a valuable collector car since the earlier models are already reaching insane prices.

Gotta check the floorboards, front and rear for rust as well as bottoms of the doors and door jambs, lower rear fenders and around the rear window and front windshield. Rear quarter rust isn't an easy fix - you've got to cut out and weld in replacement panels.

If it truly has NO rust - just the body shell is worth $1200, regardless of matching numbers or not. (mainly as a rust free parts car to fix a numbers matching car)

cool, kind of what I thought, guess I'll go look over the car and see how much work it needs... hopefully if its like he says, I could have it finished by painting it and getting a few interior pieces.... I think I might try and get the 455 too if it is the 403, not enough power for me

[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 02-01-2009).]

Easiest way to tell if you have the Pontiac 400 is if it says TA 6.6 on the shaker or if it is the Olds 403 it will say 6.6 Litre on the shaker. Also like you said if he is offering the 455 thats cool get it but it probably isn't a SD 455. The biggest problem with the 403 Olds motor is that is what is refered to as a windowed bluck which means the cut holes in the main webs to lighten the block and as you probably guessed it makes it weak.

[This message has been edited by ARFiero (edited 02-01-2009).]

if you need new decals for it let me know. my uncle is in the process of restoring his '80 TA and found a guy in Chicago that makes an almost perfect replica of the original decals on the car.

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1986 Fiero GT
2000 Chevrolet Blazer ZR2
2004 Saturn Ion '2'

" I guess I've learned that there's more to life than racing, but not much more."
-Paul Menard

quote Originally posted by ARFiero: Easiest way to tell if you have the Pontiac 400 is if it says TA 6.6 on the shaker or if it is the Olds 403 it will say 6.6 Litre on the shaker.

While you are correct, it's so old and unless it still has the original decals and shaker, that's not a reliable way to check. Most aftermarket decal kits have the T/A 6.6 shaker decals. I can't tell you how many 403 cars I've seen with T/A 6.6 decals on the shaker.

The only way to verify it's a Pontiac engine is to look at it. The Olds has a large oil fill tube right at the front of the engine and 7 bolts per valve cover. The Pontiac oil fill is on the valve cover and it has 4 bolts per valve cover.

This is the Olds 403:


And this is a Pontiac V8:


The 5th digit in the VIN should be a "Z" for a factory 400 in '79. The Olds 403 as a "K" It could also have a 301 Pontiac engine, so double check the 5th digit of the VIN to be sure.

thanks for the info, I'm about positive its the 403, I'll check when I go look at it again, is there a way to find out what year the 455 is? get an idea of the hp it should have..

Yeah you can get the casting number of the block. It is located on the left side of the bloc as you are looking at from the front of the car (passengers side). Also to make sure it is a 455 it should have 455 cast into the side of the block. Once you get the casting number you can look it up on the web here: http://bassettracing.cz28.com/custom3.html it will also give the head casting numbers so you know what you have. Hope this helps.

Shelby

The nice thing is even the lowest performance '76 455 with only 200 HP can be built up just as easily as an early 70's 455. It's crippled with a tiny little cam and crappy heads. The cam is so small, that it's red line was 4500 rpm and HP peaked around 3500. yuk.

High Performance Pontiac took a junkyard '76 455, put a cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads and matching intake a carb on it and made close to 500 HP - without rebuilding the shortblock.

Any 455 is worth building.
You don't even have to worry about 2-bolt vs. 4-bolt mains because the 3.25" crank journal makes the crank so stiff, and it's a low revving engine - typically 5500 or so red line. There's no need to rev one past 6000, so you don't have to spend a lot of money on exotic hardware to support high rpms.

One weak area of the block (all Pontiac blocks) to look for is the cam bosses in the block. If it's had a cam run with too much lift, the stresses on the lifter can actually break the lifter bores off in the block. Reinforcing those is a good idea for any serious buildups.

ok just got off the phone with him again, it IS a 400( its a 78, not a 79, maybe that was the problem?), not a 403, th400, all it needs is covers for the 2 front seats and a couple things on the door panel to be complete. he'll also give me the 455 with another th400 for a couple hundred more. the 455 is out of a 72 pontiac grandville with 81,000 miles.

[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 02-01-2009).]

...and you are not on the way to get it yet? What is wrong with you?

Yeah if you can afford it, and it isn't a hopeless rust pile, go get it NOW. The 78 front end is a lot better looking than the 79, too.

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1984 Fiero SE

Clarification on the 79 - the Olds 403 is definately not underpowered - the 403/ auto combo makes gobs of torque and is geared to take advantage of it. The 403/TH400 outperformed the 400/4 speed Pontiac drive train, and was nearly bulletproof.

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: Clarification on the 79 - the Olds 403 is definately not underpowered - the 403/ auto combo makes gobs of torque and is geared to take advantage of it. The 403/TH400 outperformed the 400/4 speed Pontiac drive train, and was nearly bulletproof.

Clarification:

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 02-01-2009).]

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: The 78 front end is a lot better looking than the 79, too.

Agreed 100%! I think the '79-'81 front ends were/are hideous.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: The 78 400 is still a very desirable car. It was the last year for the 400/auto combination. And a '72 455 is a FANTASTIC starting point for a build. '72 was the last year before EGR and still had good flowing heads even on the base model engines. 8.2:1 compression, so it'll run on 87 octane nicely and rated at 250 HP If you don't jump on this, please PM me his contact info.

actually I've been thinking I want a different fiero (I have an 84 SE 4spd 4cyl etc..) I want a newer GT, anyway... he's been wanting it, he offered to trade straight across for it with the 455.. I'm going to take a look at it in a couple days, most likely it will be in my garage next weekend. even has half a tank of gas and I can drive it home

I will probably leave the 455 out of it for awhile and rebuild it, raise the compression a little..etc I'll have to look into that part of it more, I dont know much of anything about pontiac v8s yet.. the 400 should be good enough for now!

quote Originally posted by mrfiero: Agreed 100%! I think the '79-'81 front ends were/are hideous.

yeah I dont know what I was thinking, I had seen it before and knew it was a 78 but I thought he said 79 when I talked to him last night..

[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 02-01-2009).]

ok so I got all the info on it now...

its a 78, 400/th400, 138k miles, pw/l, fisher? (wider) t-tops, has a slap shifter in it but comes with the stock shifter too. needs a fender (can get 1 for $150) paint, front seat covers and a couple small parts on the door panel (cant remember what exactly it was) and it will be done/complete, good condition again. just curious, what do you guys think its worth now? and what do you think it will be worth after its done? just curious about some real world numbers, NADA says $10k+ but it all just sounds too good to be true..

$10k - $20k, maybe more if it's truly rust free and properly restored. Prices are wild now and late 2nd gen TAs are hot items. Check ebay to see what some have been selling for.
Is it drivable as is? Sounds like it could be worth $3000-$5000, again depending solely on there being no hidden rust.

no hidden rust.. now I just gotta figure out how to do the bodywork/painting in my garage...

Also a little clarification on the 400. JUST because it has a 400 doesn't mean its a 220 horse WS6 model either. It could be a 185 hp auto. The shaker would say 6.6 liter. Just like the Olds. Check this site out. I'm a member. http://www.firebirdnation.c...yUsYwCFSR8UAod3S6vLg

Post some pics if you can and look at Ebay to see what they are selling for. And by the way I think the 79-81 nose looks good for who ever said they were hideous. That almost hurt my feelings

Vinny

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88GT (permanently under the knife)
80 Trans am (also under the knife)
02 Trans am (sometimes under the knife)

[This message has been edited by vinny (edited 02-04-2009).]

I had a 1981 Pontiac TransAm, (as well as an 82, and a 76 Camaro). The 2nd gen Firebirds 70-81, are some of the most attractive cars out there. To be honest, these cars are really starting to come into their own. If it has a clean title, it's totally worth it. I see people paying $1,000 + for cars that are rusted out hulks sitting in fields, missing everything...

I am a HUGE Pontiac fan, anyone who questions my Pontiac loyalty can just go to my website http://www.PontiacPerformance.net

But, as far as engines go, the Oldsmobile motor is capable of much more than the Pontiac motor is. I know it's like saying one twin is better than the other... but the Oldsmobile engines were better built. Stock for stock, the Pontiac 400 motor had a bit more power and was considered more "sought after" because... well.... it was a Pontiac that you were buying. But getting the Oldsmobile Rocket 403 was NOT a bad thing... it's honestly a more well balanced motor and is capable of handling much more power.

Either way, a Pontiac 400 or an Oldsmobile Rocket 403 from that year, you'll want some newer heads to get any real performance. A 78, even with all the fancy stuff it has on it is going to get blown away by 4 cyl Grand Ams all day long. Honda Civics will just outright emberass you.

I say, if that Pontiac 455 is available, and it RUNS (not knocks) I would get that too. Rebuild the Pontiac 455 and make yourself a real bad-ass engine.


I sold my 81 TransAm, and I miss it dearly... the car was so awesome... I never got to drive it because I never finished it... but I put years worth of work into it.

I highly recommend that you get subframe connectors as well.


Please, if you do get the car, FEEL FREE to contact me on any questions you may have. I owned an 81 for about 6 years and did plenty of research. I tore one down completely and built it back up 75% (and then sold the project because I had a baby coming). I also sold my Porsche when the baby came...

But I did buy a 73 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme to replace those two cars.

Anyway, a car like that, and getting it at that price can be an even investment... meaning that any money you put into it (starting with that low of a beginning price) will basically yield the exact same amount when you turn around and sell it.

The problem with these cars is that there are certain parts which are extremely expensive. Second to a Ferrari, it's probably one of the most expensive vehicles to restore. Typical wear items like seat covers, door panels, and carpet are dirt cheap... (as are most GM vehicles), but a lot of the specialized items that you may typically want... are really hard to get, or are extremely expensive.

No one makes a replacement dash for that car, yet... and "Just Dashes" is the place that everyone goes to and it's $600-700 to get it fixed. I can guarantee that yours is cracked... but that's ok, that's NOT a reason to give up on it. Any year now... Year One should have a replacement dash (they make one for the Camaro).

Honestly... all Italian and pizza jokes aside... it's probably one of the coolest cars America ever came out with. It was American muscle car technology with Italian styling... (it actually was).

Don't let it slip away if you have the time and place to fix it.

Also, I suggest you join the group "BanditTransAmClub@yahoogroups". I'm on there and there are a bunch of guys who do nothing but restore these cars and have all the parts you want.


By the way, that $150 dollar fender is crap. It comes from China and doesn't fit.
Also... if the body of the car is already in good shape, and it's ready to go... my recommendation is to go get a cheap paintjob ASAP. Get an Earl Scheib, or a MACCO paint job as soon as you get the car. Having at least a semi-decent paintjob on the car will help you envision it's potential. Besides, then you can focus on all the other things, fixing the interior, getting the mechanics in order... and the car won't look like a total piece of crap.

Then, when everything else is done... you can strip the mouldings and get it painted at your liesure.

No one likes to see a multi-colored primered 70s TransAm in their driveway.

------------------
Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convt. (Wife's)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1981 EZ-GO Xi875-A "Miami Dolphins" Medical Cart
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme 350

quote Originally posted by vinny: Also a little clarification on the 400. JUST because it has a 400 doesn't mean its a 220 horse WS6 model either. It could be a 185 hp. Check this site out. I'm a member. http://www.firebirdnation.c...yUsYwCFSR8UAod3S6vLg Post some pics if you can and look at Ebay to see what they are selling for. And by the way I think the 79-81 nose looks good for who ever said they were hideous. That almost hurt my feelings Vinny

I'll find out for sure what the motor is and everything today, going to get the vin and codes, and drive it in a couple hours.

Do a little reaserch on the 455. I'm not sure about the 72 model but the one I have is a 76 and if you use the 6X heads off the 400 on the 455 it yields about 9.6 to 1 compression which is ideal for pump gas. Anymore and it WILL detonate on 93. You may be able to get a little more out of the aluminum heads though. A fresh build with 6Xs (4Xs are basicly the same) 9.6 comp. good cam grind (do your research), headers and a intake with 750 or so cfm produces about 450hp that idles in traffic. Lets see a 403 do that! You can also modify the 455 crank and install it in the 400 for a small jounal 455(depending on bore). DON"T USE THE ROPE SEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Someone makes a neoprene(sp) main seal. The rope is prone to leaks.

Vinny

ok so I looked at the car again today, last time was quite awhile back and I never took a good look over it (wasnt for sale then) anyway... it does have some rust, little underneath and behind the doors at the bottom but still looks fixable, and I talked him into giving me more parts it needs, along with fixing the rust behind the doors.. so its not rust free like I was hoping, but it is in pretty good shape considering what I'll have into it and what others are going for in worse shape...

about the 455, I was actually wanting 500-600hp and to maybe use nitrous. not sure what all will go into that yet but i'll have plenty of time to build it.. not sure if it can be done and still be streetable though? its just going to be a weekend car when I'm done. (will probably want to take it to the track some too )

Wheres the pics of this thing???

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Wheres the pics of this thing???

it doesnt look too good right now lol and I forgot my camera, I'll get some pics next time.

[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 02-05-2009).]

I would trade all my fiero stuff for a decent 2nd gen in a heartbeat. Ah, glory days.

quote Originally posted by AJ7: what I will be giving for that? my 84 fiero with 80k on it.

You should be ashamed of yourself, that poor guy...

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: You should be ashamed of yourself, that poor guy...

he has a 3800 for it, and LIKES the body (although he was talking about doing a lambo rebody....ugh). personally I dont like notchies, I got it because it was in such good shape and lower mileage. and I never had even driven a fiero before. I'll get another later, a fastback and do a 3800sc swap

Have you closed the deal yet? I keep expecting to read your post that you called him to find out it's already sold.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Have you closed the deal yet? I keep expecting to read your post that you called him to find out it's already sold.

ug, so many times that has happend to me.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Have you closed the deal yet? I keep expecting to read your post that you called him to find out it's already sold.

he was about to put it on ebay last night. but its mine, within 2 weeks anyway. I'm making him do a couple things to it before I get it. (he made it sound better than it was, so he's going to make it as good as he said ) If I didnt know the guy and do business with him before, I'd think he was crazy. because he could probably sell it on ebay and get more than the fiero is worth out of it as is without the extra motor or anything.

He might still do that. Some people suck.

I actually bought a 280Z from a lady and she was waiting for a replacement title, I flushed and changed the coolant, replaced a coolant hose, oil, cleaned it up inside and out real good. Then she and her ex husband showed up and said they wanted more money, I ended up giving them the car back as there wasn't enough proof I did stuff to it. They still had the title. At least they gave me back the money I had given.
Don't do much of anything until it is officially yours.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 02-05-2009).]

quote Originally posted by 2.5: He might still do that. Some people suck. I actually bought a 280Z from a lady and she was waiting for a replacement title, I flushed and changed the coolant, replaced a coolant hose, oil, cleaned it up inside and out real good. Then she and her ex husband showed up and said they wanted more money, I ended up giving them the car back as there wasn't enough proof I did stuff to it. They still had the title. At least they gave me back the money I had given. Don't do much of anything until it is officially yours.

I'm not doing ANYTHING with it until its in my name.

sooooooooooooo I'm going to look at it one last time today, anyone else want it if I decide I dont?