700 Billion in bailouts to the banks, with another 150 billion earmarked to give to their friends. What a farking joke. FWIW - both McCain and Obama voted in favor.
Nice knowing you, America. I bet wall street is just pissing themselves laughing at how they managed to get away with what amounts to the economic equivalent of murder.
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 10-02-2008).]
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12:41 AM
PFF
System Bot
Wichita Member
Posts: 20708 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
Hopefully the House will has some brains and shoot it down again. This bill started as 3 pages. When the house voted it down it was 300+ and this new one based on the old one is over 400.
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12:55 AM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20708 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
Hopefully the House will has some brains and shoot it down again. This bill started as 3 pages. When the house voted it down it was 300+ and this new one based on the old one is over 400.
Some of the crazy things they were finding in this bill. Ridiculous stuff.
There was a line item that gave tax breaks to manufactures who made wooden arrow tips for toy bow & arrows.
Anyone else called, written or email their Congressman and voiced their dismay over this? I'm seriously considering voting against our incumbent Senator over this. I would not have done so prior to this. It's just one vote but, I'm tired of this crap.
Ron
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08:27 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Some of the crazy things they were finding in this bill. Ridiculous stuff.
There was a line item that gave tax breaks to manufactures who made wooden arrow tips for toy bow & arrows.
Just damn!
Typical politics. . Ive always thought that there should be a law against 'riders'. Every bill stands on its own. Sure it wont stop shady back room deals, but at least the bills will be straight forward.
I still do say that a plan "bailout" would be a good thing, but it has to be a serious one.
I don't know if i go so far as being a good thing to have the government get involved and take over ( socialism ), but i think the alternatives of not stepping in will be worse ( world wide depression ).
Making it a *loan* would be a good start, even tho it means they would just pass the cost down to the consumers/tax payers and still get away with screwing things up.
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09:49 AM
PFF
System Bot
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Anyone else called, written or email their Congressman and voiced their dismay over this? I'm seriously considering voting against our incumbent Senator over this. I would not have done so prior to this. It's just one vote but, I'm tired of this crap.
Ron
I just did that this morning to every congress person in the state. I sent 3 emails one from me personally, one from the business and one from the office of the small business group.
Not just a tax break, but 6 million in assistance for the beleaguered wooden arrow industry. What other pork is in this little bill? Here's some other items:
* $223M for Alaskan fisherman * $192M for rum producers in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands * $128M for auto racing * $33M for companies operating in American Samoa * $10M for film & TV production * $6M for producers of wooden arrows
Meanwhile, the average joe can take comfort knowing that if this works, gas prices will shoot up, home prices will escalate again, and they'll feel a bit of extra sting come tax time as they are forced to pay for wall streets expensive gaffe.
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12:24 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
With 850 billion being spent, they probably thought who would really care about 6 million. It is all like funny money to those trying to vote through this bill. The only way I can see to get congress to put some more thought into their spending is if they had a capped spending limit. It's kind of like when you give a kid his first credit card. Often they spend through the first 3/4's of their credit recklessly, giving little thought to purchases they would otherwise think long and hard about if they were paying cash for. Once they reach their last $100 of credit left on the card, however, they find a way to pinch their pennies and the real seriousness of their situation hits home. The treasury needs a wakeup call like this. Right now, they can spend like drunken sailors with their debt escalating higher and higher without any sort of limits put in place. Talk about royally screwing over the future generations.
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 10-02-2008).]
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12:41 PM
jetman Member
Posts: 7807 From: Sterling Heights Mich Registered: Dec 2002
Surely you have heard of cost over runs ? On a side note, Osamma Bin Laden, in his quest the bring down the United States, targeted our economy as a weapon. We did it ourselves.
Here's where the extra $150 bil comes from, and some of that was passed by both houses of congress already, just attached or 'folded' into the bailout bill--like the Mental Health Parity part. Some of it is fluff, (not much IMO) a lot of it is sorely needed legislation.
More on the Bill Apart from the Troubled Assets Relief Program, (the bail out) the bill before the Senate includes:
Extensions of the AMT patch, tax deductions on state and local sales taxes, tuition, teacher expenses and real property taxes and tax credits for business research and new market investors.
Energy tax credits and incentives to encourage wind and refined coal production, new biomass facilities, wave and tide electricity generators, solar energy property improvements, CO2 capturing, plug-in electric drive vehicles, idling reduction units on truck engines, cellulosic biofuels ethanol production, energy efficient houses, offices, dishwashers, clothes washers and refrigerators, and fringe benefits for employees commuting by bicycle.
A requirement for private insurance plans to offer mental health benefits on par with medical-surgical benefits.
Tax relief provisions for victims of this summer's Midwestern floods, and Hurricane Ike.
Freezing of deductions for sale and exchange of oil and natural gas, mandatory basis reporting by brokers for transactions involving publicly traded securities and an extension of the oil spill tax. Economic development credit to American Samoan businesses.
$10,000 tax credit for training of mine rescue team members.
50% immediate expensing for extra underground mine safety equipment.
Tax credit for businesses with employees from an Indian reservation.
Accelerated depreciation for property used mostly on an Indian reservation.
50% tax credit for some expenditures on maintaining railroad tracks.
7-year recovery period for motorsports racetrack property.
Expensing of cleaning up "brownfield" contaminated sites.
Enhanced deductions for businesses donating computers and books to schools, and for food donations.
Deduction for income from domestic production in Puerto Rico.
Tax credit for employees in Hurricane Katrina disaster area.
Tax incentives for investments in poor neighborhoods in D.C.. Increased rehabilitation credit for buildings in Gulf area.
Reduction of import duties on some imported wool fabrics, transfers other duties to Wool Trust Fund to promote competitiveness of American wool.
Special expensing rules for film and TV productions. Increasing cover of rum excise tax revenues to Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands.
Making it easier for film and TV companies to use deduction for domestic production.
Exempting children's wooden arrows from excise tax.
Income averaging for Exxon Valdez litigants for tax purposes.
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07:53 PM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20708 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
We need to revolt. It is amazing how stupid our Congress can be at a dire time like this. Instead of focusing on a solution on how to prevent our economy from going third world, they are more interested in what pork project they can infuse into the bill. Fire them all, we need to Boston Tea party ther butts and elect individuals that will govern for the people not their own interest. Make lobbying illegal beyond a certain small dollar amount and bribes to Congress a form of treason! I will freely admit I am against this bail out plan even before the extra 180B. I believe we should formulate a better plan than the one proposed. If we look at what happened to Japan back in the 90 we will see that we are trying to do the same thing and it just made it worse and took longer to recover. I believe if we infuse these companies with cash they will just horde it to shore up their reserves and not infuse it back into the economy. If you look around a lot of economist are saying about the same thing. We are in trouble because the plan most likely won't work!
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11:09 PM
NEPTUNE Member
Posts: 10199 From: Ticlaw FL, and some other places. Registered: Aug 2001
Do you think the news outlets will report that loudly?
As a matter of fact, I heard about that on PBS this afternoon. The original bill was a blank check. This bill is....much longer. There is an alternative bill, but I guess itsalmost a moot point now. FYI:
quote
No BAILOUTS Act
Bringing Accounting, Increased Liquidity, Oversight and Upholding Taxpayer Security
1) Require the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) to require an economic value standard to measure the capital of financial institutions.
This bill will require SEC to implement a rule to suspend the application of fair value accounting standards to financial institutions, which marks assets to the market value, no matter the conditions of the market. When no meaningful market exists, as is the current market for mortgage backed securities, this standard requires institutions to value assets at fire-sale prices. This creates a capital shortfall on paper. Using the economic value standard as bank examines have traditionally done will immediately correct the capital shortfalls experienced by many institutions.
2) Require the Securities and Exchange Commission to restricting naked short sells permanently
This bill will require SEC to implement a rule that blocks naked selling, selling a stock short without first borrowing the shares or ensuring the shares can be borrowed. Such practices many times harm the companies represented in the sales and hurt their efforts to raise capital. There is no economic value produced by naked short sales, but significant negative effects.
3) Require the Securities and Exchange Commission to restore the up-tick rule permanently.
This bill will require SEC to implement a rule that blocks short sales without an up-tick in the market. On September 19, 2008, the SEC approved a temporary pause of short selling in financial companies “to protect the integrity and quality of the securities market and strengthen investor confidence.” This rule prevents market crashes brought on by irrational short term market behavior.
4) “Net Worth Certificate Program”
This bill will require FDIC to implement a net worth certificate program. The FDIC would determine banks with short-term capital needs and the ability to financially recover in the foreseeable future. For those entities that qualify, the FDIC should purchase net worth certificates in these institutions. In exchange, these institutions issue promissory notes to repay the FDIC, counting the amount “borrowed” as capital on their balance sheets. This exchange provides short term capital, with not cash outlay. Interest rates on the certificates and the FDIC notes should be identical so no subsidy is necessary.
Participating banks must be subject to strict oversight by the FDIC including oversight of top executive compensation and if necessary the removal of poor management. Financial records and business plans should be subject to scrutiny while participating in the program.
In 1982, Congress approved a program, known as the Net Worth Certificate Program, that allowed banks and thrifts to apply for immediate capital assistance. From 1982 to 1993, banks with total assets of $40 billion participated in the program. The majority of these banks, 75%, required no further assistance beyond the certificate program.
5) Increase the FDIC Insurance limit from $100,000 to $250,000.
The bill will require the FDIC raise its limit to provide depositors confidence that their money is safe and help eliminate runs on banks which are destabilizing to the industry.
I just heard about this, and don't really have a firm opinion on it yet, I've barely even read it. It does seem to have some strong points.
[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 10-02-2008).]
It passed. The cause was that the foxes were guarding the hen house and then they discovered the hens were missing. Congress just put more hens in the hen house leaving the same foxes guarding the hen house. The $750B-850B will vanish as soon as the foxes get their hands on it, then want more hens.
There are many responsibe for this and the regulators who were supposed to be watching failed in their jobs. They need to lose their jobs. Those idiot people who bought more than they could afford and those idiot bankers who lent the money need to be in some pain for a while.
I heard 2 congressmen this morning say they were changing their votes from no to yes. And then right after that say all the calls and e-mails from their constituents were against it telling them to vote no. Isn't it their friggin job to represent the wishes of the people from their districts? No wonder the approval rating is so low. I hope those two get voted out.
I heard 2 congressmen this morning say they were changing their votes from no to yes. And then right after that say all the calls and e-mails from their constituents were against it telling them to vote no. Isn't it their friggin job to represent the wishes of the people from their districts? No wonder the approval rating is so low. I hope those two get voted out.
I heard the same thing, Phranc. One guy said that he knows he will not get re-elected next year because his constituents were so dead against the plan, but he voted in favor anyways as he was told it was for the best of the country. What a bunch of cowards.
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02:10 PM
pokeyfiero Member
Posts: 16233 From: Free America! Registered: Dec 2003
* $223M for Alaskan fisherman * $192M for rum producers in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands * $128M for auto racing * $33M for companies operating in American Samoa * $10M for film & TV production * $6M for producers of wooden arrows
I've been thinking of starting an auto race track in American Samoa. We would be serving Rum and fish at the concession stands. We could do a documentary on it.
I heard the same thing, Phranc. One guy said that he knows he will not get re-elected next year because his constituents were so dead against the plan, but he voted in favor anyways as he was told it was for the best of the country. What a bunch of cowards.
Urrr, this is a republic down here, if government did what the majority wanted all the time we would be in socialism far deeper than we are. I have to commend somebody that votes for what he thinks is best at the cost of re election. That is the way it should be.
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02:23 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
* $223M for Alaskan fisherman * $192M for rum producers in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands * $128M for auto racing * $33M for companies operating in American Samoa * $10M for film & TV production * $6M for producers of wooden arrows
I've been thinking of starting an auto race track in American Samoa. We would be serving Rum and fish at the concession stands. We could do a documentary on it.
Truly the land of opportunity.
What? No wooden arrows?
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02:23 PM
pokeyfiero Member
Posts: 16233 From: Free America! Registered: Dec 2003
