yup - I've done my share of holes. until one day - hit a stud. broke my hand. I was a draftsman at the time. (showing age...its CAD these days) obviously, I could not work with a broken hand. and, for about 4 years - the hand was sensitive to cold & sharp jarrings. even a firm handshake hurt. the bones in your hand are small & never heal the same way. if it happens again - use your left hand (of whatever isnt your primary)
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03:15 PM
jaskispyder Member
Posts: 21510 From: Northern MI Registered: Jun 2002
Not worth it, IMHO. You could go to counseling, or look at being single again. If issues like this are popping up already, time for some deep thought and discussion on the "issues".
J.
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03:21 PM
The Funkmaster Member
Posts: 1541 From: Chilliwack, B.C., Canada Registered: Oct 2004
I'd like the option. She's pregnant, and I'm not the type to take off on that... We're gonna have to work it out, or there's gonna be more holes lol!
If she's perusing personals ads, the obvious question begs to be asked: are you sure you're the father-to-be? I know you want to give her the benefit of the doubt, or even worse, your ego won't permit you to believe she would actually cheat on you, but I know women like this, and trust me, they will go to any lengths to feel better about themselves. Including fooling around. A word to the wise, get a paternity test. Don't let your denial, ego, or false sense of obligation cause you to ignore a possiblity that could cost you dearly for the next 18 years. It would suck azz to support some other guys kid just because you didn't want to believe it was possible. I don't mean to sound callous, but you have a situation there that just won't get resolved with sunshine and puppies. I wouldn't trade places with you for anything in the world- women (and guys) like that have problems that most are just not equipped to deal with. You sincerely have my deepest sympathy, I know all too well how you feel.
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03:55 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
Hitting stuff is a sign of not being in control of yourself. And when you hit something, what you are really doing, in your mind, is hitting the person, not the wall. Or at the very least, you are saying, "This is what I could do to you!". And those kind of substitutions are to closely connected for my comfort. I learned early-on that me not being in control of myself & my emotions, was unacceptable. It turned all my power over to others. I could not have that.
When someone makes you angry, you need to reconize the signs instantly. What happens is, when they say something about you, your head instantly repeats it to you, in your own voice! And since you always listen to you, it hits HARD.
Boondawg's Solution To Avoiding Inner & Outer Conflict: Dissarment
Dissarm your opponent with a calming, logical voice. Talk it out from every angle. Do not judge or condem. Explore. Look at everything as opinion. Mentally dissect your opponets view. Wear them shoes. Work backwards to the source (root) of the conflict, then work verbally from there.
In your case, it's 2 fold. First, you need to get her to realize that you are not the men before you. You have to help her heal her past wounds. "I know you have been betrayed in the past, but not all people are like that, and I want to be the first to NOT betray you."
Second, if she is doing something you disprove of, you must calmly express that, how it makes you feel, and explore if these actions are benifical to growing & building a relationship of compassion & trust. Calmly. A woman will respond more productivly to the calm expressions of emotions then she will to violent expressions & actions. You can not control & hold (at least not for very long) a woman through fear & intimidation. You must be open with your feelings, and allow her the same. It really is the only way to feed a loving, growing relationship. You just got to let go of what you THINK a powerfull Man is SUPPOSED to be.
After all, when it comes to love, it's not what YOU think about you, it's what SHE thinks about you!
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 12-14-2006).]
I dated a woman once who, because of past relationships, told me that I was not to be trusted because I was a man. After we broke up, she later admitted to me that I gave her nothing to mistrust about me. Unfortunately, by that time, it was too late for us. I don't think she's had much of a stable relationship since. Very difficult to deal with someone who's been hurt in the past by others. I feel your pain man.
------------------ Whade' "The Duck Formerly Known As Wade" Duck '87 GT Auto '88 Ferrario '84 Indy (8/26/06)
Is it possible to discuss why she has been looking at personals? is she actively trying to seek something additional to what she has already, or is it mindless surfing? It might be like a woman readin' a romance novel...(fantasy) as long as she doesn't CHAT with them (make CONTACT).
I would REALLY try to avoid hitting things. And THROWING things. I can understand why you would be upset, and it can be very frustrating...maybe go to the basement and lift some weights to get rid of the stress...find another outlet.
She's pregnant, so remember that she might get emotional/have "moods".
There is no way you can really ease her paranoia, but if you do things like hit stuff, get all angry, etc, it won't do much to help your relationship...
You aren't her father, but she may have her head wired that your relationship is destined to end badly. And when people think things like that, they often come true.
I would try to talk with her and find out deep down, what she thinks will happen in the future. Some people kinda "get off" a little on fantasizing about suffering, or worrying. Not saying that's HER, but perhaps she feels "safer" when she worries. I honestly would just NOT continue the conversation with her if she keeps brings up the "cheating" stuff...
As for the Beer, if you have one beer a week, enjoy it, and ignore her. Sorry if I sound harsh, but if you aren't getting sh!tfaced, tell her you like to have about one beer a week. one beer is NOT getting drunk. You just like it, it tastes good, and it relaxes you. For whatever reason. Don't just IGNORE her, try to explain it to her.
I enjoy a beer (or a few) from time to time. I don't try to get 'faced, I just like 'em sometimes. maybe a Hard Cider or Guiness, or a Corona with a lime. But, I don't drive, and I don't get 'faced. I just like the way they taste, and sure, It relaxes me a bit. My wife doesn't drink ,and doesn't like the small of beer. So I make sure I brush my teeth before I smooch her...
Definitely not drinking today. No worries there... I turn into a giggly puppy when I drink, anyways.
Thanks for all the advice, guys, I really really appreciate it!
I hope I can be in better control in the future. I've tried talking/reasoning and everything I can possibly think of, it just got to be too much. Hmm... Gotta find something for when I'm mad. I can't afford to fix walls all the time, now can I? lol...
All you guys are too great, you have no idea how much you are helping me out. Honestly. You're the only support I have right now, and I appreciate it!
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09:08 PM
Dec 15th, 2006
FriendGregory Member
Posts: 4833 From: Palo Alto, CA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
My eyes are welled up in tears, this is a very bad place to be and I know, I have issues I am dealing with right now. 1st fix the hole, it would be better if it was not there to point to. If one day someone calls the cops because they hear yelling then the cops see the hole and declare domestic violence and then you end up spending a year going to classes. 2nd If she does "poo" then is mean, stupid, or cruel, smile and think to yourself how much better a person you are than her. 3rd Be that better person.
good luck, Gregory
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01:27 AM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
My eyes are welled up in tears, this is a very bad place to be and I know, I have issues I am dealing with right now. 1st fix the hole, it would be better if it was not there to point to. If one day someone calls the cops because they hear yelling then the cops see the hole and declare domestic violence and then you end up spending a year going to classes. 2nd If she does "poo" then is mean, stupid, or cruel, smile and think to yourself how much better a person you are than her. 3rd Be that better person.
As much as it may not be a good idea to bash the wall, for obvious reasons, trust me, ultimately, it makes zero difference as far as she's concerned. Let me give you some insight into battered women. First, let me qualify myself a little. I have been with more than one battered women in my life. Like most guys, I want to "fix" things, and damaged women were common projects. It took me a LONG time to realize what an exercise in futility that was. I've been through counseling with some of those women, been through programs, consulted various resources and did a lot of research. In the end, this is basically what I learned. First and foremeost, battered women have very llittle, if any self esteem. They may not have started out that way, abuse, either physical or emotional is a process, where the woman is basically stripped of her self worth over a period of time. She usually doesn't even realize it's happening until it's too late and she's become completely dependent on the abuser, or fears for her life, and can see no immediate escape from the abuser. When they do get out, it's only the very beginning. Most think that once they are free of the abuser, that it's all over. Unfortunately, nothing cvould be further form the truth. The residual emotional damage can be as bad or worse than the actual abuse, and only a very strong woman will actually combat her demons, and move past the abuse. The key there in that sentence is that she has to be the one to do the hard work and get past her issues. I'm sure that you (or most guys, including me) want to do whatever we can to fix the problem. Bottom line, we can't do SQUAT to fix her problems, the only thing we can do is be supportive and encouraging as she goes through the process. We can try to be a tiny bit more patient while they work things out, we can try to be careful to not aggrevate a situation, those sort of things, but what I've learned is that we (guys) have to be careful because it can quickly turn around to where WE are the ones allowing ourselves to be abused. Just because a woman has been abused and has faced adversity does NOT mean that she should have license to treat her man like crap and use the abuse as an excuse. We have to remember that she's not some fragile piece of crystal that will shatter at the slightest sign of hostility or anger. In fact, just the opposite. It becomes our responsibilty (if we assume the role) to teach her how to handle confilct in a healthy manner. That she can be angry, and that we can be angry, and it doesn't have to lead to violence. When we can engage her in a confrontation and not become abusive, it reenforces what's "normal". You have to keep in mind that a woman who has been abused has a very different concept of what love is. Consider this: a woman is in an abusive relationship for ten years. It's pretty much a weekly thing maybe (that's 520 weeks)where a fight breaks out, the man beats on her, then feels remorse. Afterwards he holds her and tells her how much he loves her and then they have make-up sex. To an abused woman, THAT has become "normal". She begins to associate the abuse with love, and if she's not being abused, (even though consciously she doesn't want that) she doesn't feel loved. Quite a contradiction isn't it? One of my past relationships with a woman with an abusive backgroundwould provoke arguments with me to try and MAKE me hit her. She would scream at me and dare me to. I NEVER raised my hand to her (or ANY woman) in anger, and this aggrevated her to the point where SHE would try to escalate things to a physical level. She would try to strike me or kick at me. On some level she WANTED me to hit her, because that was what she associated with "love". I often would have to gently restrain her and try to talk to her in a calm voice. I had to step outside of myself and let my ego go and try to explain that I wasn't going to fistfight with her, that that was NOT love, and that we needed to learn a different way. Another night we had some friends over for a couple of beers and a movie. When they left, she curled up into a little ball in the corner and started to tremble and cry. As I approached her, she got worse. I sat across the room and just waited. After a moment she seemed to calm a little and I asked if I could move closer. Eventually I ended up a few feet from her, sitting on my hands so she wouldn't feel threatened. I finally got her to tell me that whenever she and her ex would have friends over, when they left he would beat her senseless for not being a "good hostess", no matter how hard she tried. Her husband was a real piece of work. He actually paid his friends to beat on her sometimes just for his amusement. Anyway, the big thing is, if you're going to be with a woman with an abusive history, try to keep in mind that she doesn't associate love with kindness and a gentle touch. Her entire idea of love and communication has been completely turned upside down by the abuser. You'll have to be patient, but don't become a victim yourself. As much as you may love her, no woman is worth sacrificing your own well being and mental stability. And trust me, a woman like that CAN drive you crazy. They are master manipulators, (having learned form the best) and will provoke and antagonize until you pop. I emphasize the paternity just to be safe, because I also found out that women like that with low self esteem will seek out approval in any way possible. Best of luck to you (and her) whatever happens.
(Disclaimer: I know as sure as I'm sitting here that someone, possibly an abused woman may try to tell me I'm full of crap. That's fine, so you (or your mate) doesn't fit the mold. Good for you, you have no idea what a bullet you dodged. But it won't take much research to realize that what I'm saying is pretty typical for a woman who has experienced a lot of abuse.)
[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 12-15-2006).]
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09:42 AM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
As much as it may not be a good idea to bash the wall, for obvious reasons, trust me, ultimately, it makes zero difference as far as she's concerned. Let me give you some insight into battered women. First, let me qualify myself a little. I have been with more than one battered women in my life. Like most guys, I want to "fix" things, and damaged women were common projects. It took me a LONG time to realize what an exercise in futility that was. I've been through counseling with some of those women, been through programs, consulted various resources and did a lot of research. In the end, this is basically what I learned. First and foremeost, battered women have very llittle, if any self esteem. They may not have started out that way, abuse, either physical or emotional is a process, where the woman is basically stripped of her self worth over a period of time. She usually doesn't even realize it's happening until it's too late and she's become completely dependent on the abuser, or fears for her life, and can see no immediate escape from the abuser. When they do get out, it's only the very beginning. Most think that once they are free of the abuser, that it's all over. Unfortunately, nothing cvould be further form the truth. The residual emotional damage can be as bad or worse than the actual abuse, and only a very strong woman will actually combat her demons, and move past the abuse. The key there in that sentence is that she has to be the one to do the hard work and get past her issues. I'm sure that you (or most guys, including me) want to do whatever we can to fix the problem. Bottom line, we can't do SQUAT to fix her problems, the only thing we can do is be supportive and encouraging as she goes through the process. We can try to be a tiny bit more patient while they work things out, we can try to be careful to not aggrevate a situation, those sort of things, but what I've learned is that we (guys) have to be careful because it can quickly turn around to where WE are the ones allowing ourselves to be abused. Just because a woman has been abused and has faced adversity does NOT mean that she should have license to treat her man like crap and use the abuse as an excuse. We have to remember that she's not some fragile piece of crystal that will shatter at the slightest sign of hostility or anger. In fact, just the opposite. It becomes our responsibilty (if we assume the role) to teach her how to handle confilct in a healthy manner. That she can be angry, and that we can be angry, and it doesn't have to lead to violence. When we can engage her in a confrontation and not become abusive, it reenforces what's "normal". You have to keep in mind that a woman who has been abused has a very different concept of what love is. Consider this: a woman is in an abusive relationship for ten years. It's pretty much a weekly thing maybe (that's 520 weeks)where a fight breaks out, the man beats on her, then feels remorse. Afterwards he holds her and tells her how much he loves her and then they have make-up sex. To an abused woman, THAT has become "normal". She begins to associate the abuse with love, and if she's not being abused, (even though consciously she doesn't want that) she doesn't feel loved. Quite a contradiction isn't it? One of my past relationships with a woman with an abusive backgroundwould provoke arguments with me to try and MAKE me hit her. She would scream at me and dare me to. I NEVER raised my hand to her (or ANY woman) in anger, and this aggrevated her to the point where SHE would try to escalate things to a physical level. She would try to strike me or kick at me. On some level she WANTED me to hit her, because that was what she associated with "love". I often would have to gently restrain her and try to talk to her in a calm voice. I had to step outside of myself and let my ego go and try to explain that I wasn't going to fistfight with her, that that was NOT love, and that we needed to learn a different way. Another night we had some friends over for a couple of beers and a movie. When they left, she curled up into a little ball in the corner and started to tremble and cry. As I approached her, she got worse. I sat across the room and just waited. After a moment she seemed to calm a little and I asked if I could move closer. Eventually I ended up a few feet from her, sitting on my hands so she wouldn't feel threatened. I finally got her to tell me that whenever she and her ex would have friends over, when they left he would beat her senseless for not being a "good hostess", no matter how hard she tried. Her husband was a real piece of work. He actually paid his friends to beat on her sometimes just for his amusement. Anyway, the big thing is, if you're going to be with a woman with an abusive history, try to keep in mind that she doesn't associate love with kindness and a gentle touch. Her entire idea of love and communication has been completely turned upside down by the abuser. You'll have to be patient, but don't become a victim yourself. As much as you may love her, no woman is worth sacrificing your own well being and mental stability. And trust me, a woman like that CAN drive you crazy. They are master manipulators, (having learned form the best) and will provoke and antagonize until you pop. I emphasize the paternity just to be safe, because I also found out that women like that with low self esteem will seek out approval in any way possible. Best of luck to you (and her) whatever happens.
(Disclaimer: I know as sure as I'm sitting here that someone, possibly an abused woman may try to tell me I'm full of crap. That's fine, so you (or your mate) doesn't fit the mold. Good for you, you have no idea what a bullet you dodged. But it won't take much research to realize that what I'm saying is pretty typical for a woman who has experienced a lot of abuse.)
Every word of the above is true. Been there also.
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12:35 PM
Dec 16th, 2006
The Funkmaster Member
Posts: 1541 From: Chilliwack, B.C., Canada Registered: Oct 2004
Taijiguy, thanks for sharing that... I hope that I can get things working right again. What you experienced may well help me out a whole lot... Thank you.
I hope things went well for you?
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12:24 AM
PFF
System Bot
sostock Member
Posts: 5907 From: Grain Valley, MO Registered: May 2005
Taijiguy, her name wasn't Michelle was it? i lived with a girl just like that.
Funk, i assume you are a young man, well younger than me. i've knocked some holes in walls, doors, and a mirror (had glass coming our of my knuckles for yrs). anyway, if you love her, try to seek some counceling of some sort. maybe a church, some gov't program or a private psych. many times an objective 3rd party can look at things in a way the two of you can't.
i'm not the kind of person to say just because she is pregnant that your should [i]make[/] it work. but you should at least try. i wish you the best. relationships take a LOT of work. its kinda like a Fiero, its never done, never the way you want it to be, and never perfect...but its yours and yours alone.
Taijiguy, thanks for sharing that... I hope that I can get things working right again. What you experienced may well help me out a whole lot... Thank you.
I hope things went well for you?
I hope it does help. Maybe if you let her read it she'll see a little of herself in there and it'll open the door a little. Maybe, maybe not, obviously that's your call. As for things going well, I can only say that the woman I'm with now has an ex who wasn't physically abusive, but he was detatched and emotionally distant. He's a pretty weird guy. But he never hit her or anything, but I do still pay the price for some of his sins, of which there were a great many. Fortunately the small price I do occasionally pay is well worth the overall package. I've told the story here before about my dad and his saying "just the price of an omlette". //www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000003/HTML/20060206-6-033729.html So there are times when being cool is just completley worth the effort it takes. Ultimately, yes, things worked out wonderfully. My current g/f is broken just to make her interesting, and not psychopathic. Sort of like me. We've been together for going on three years. She's my best friend, I can't think of anyone I enjoy spending time with more than her. Our life together isn't perfect, but it's almost effortless in that we don't have to constantly be "fixing" things or analyzing our problems. We just are who we are, and that's perfectly fine with us. (Most of the time.
