This is long. It's probably not worth reading for most people. For the ones that get through it all, thanks.
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The Fiero community has been kind to me over the years with very rare exceptions. The people in this community have shown appreciation for my contributions over those years, and I've enjoyed giving back what I can, particularly to those here on the Forum. More so than anywhere else in my life I have a real sense of family when I'm able to participate here in PFF. During the last few months of my life it's been a really dark time for me, the worst it's ever been. Two members of the Forum sent me unsolicited items during those months, gifts that really gave me much treasured bright moments in an otherwise endless string of pointless days. I owe a tremendous debt of gratitude for those relatively small gifts, they meant a lot to me.

As I begin the long, slow slog out of darkness I feel like I owe somewhat of an explanation to those on the Forum and in the Fiero community who seemed to care. Though I'm taking a big risk here, exposing my thoughts and feelings in such a way that will make it easy for those so inclined to attack me, I still feel like I have to do this. I will bear whatever bad comes out of this because I have to, I don't feel like I have a choice. This is part of the healing process and has to be done.

I'd like to spend a few moments describing the kind of person I've always striven to be. I've always liked doing nice things for others, that is one of my core principles, a key aspect of who I am. It speaks to why I've spent thousands of hours contributing to the Forum, why I've never hesitated to help out friends in need both here and in person, why I rarely ever ask anything in return. The responsibility of being relied on is one I bear without complaint as it brings honor to me to help others, to give something back to their lives. I don't remember when in my life I developed this principle, though it was clarified when I was in the Boy Scouts as a child.

Honor is another of my core principles, probably one of the most important. It drives my honesty, guides me through difficult times, and though sometimes I may weaken in my resolve my honor always brings me back to my center. Doing good deeds strengthens my honor, which in turn drives me to always seek to do the right things. Truth and directness are part of this principle too, as a great man I admire once said, "The truth shall set you free." Honor also makes me a man of my word. To me, a man's word is binding because without it he has no honor, and without honor he has nothing and can be nothing.

The third of my triad of core principles is that I'm inherently non-violent. As a child I was seriously and regularly beaten by one of my parents and was physically and mentally tormented continuously by bullies in the first eight years of school. I've been knocked unconscious, bruised, cut, and bloodied so many times I couldn't keep track. The few times I tried fighting back only made it worse. I've been mugged as a child, I've had guns held on me as an adult. I've had a friend shot down dead in his driveway, a good man with a good family. These experiences give me an inside view on violence and I abhor it as a matter of principle. Yes, there are times when force is necessary, and after years of serious introspection and thought I long ago decided that the only time I'll ever commit an act of violence is in defense of my country, my life or property, or in defense of another's life, and only as an absolute last resort after all other options have been exhausted. I've come to believe that committing acts of violence damages the mind of the perpetrator, making them less human with each act, that is a price I am not willing to pay except under the most dire of circumstances.

These three principles make up who I am, what I have been, and always will be, and it's a upon these that I've sought and worked to build the person that I am now.

However, there are aspects of myself that I've never been happy with, the biggest one of those being that I seem to have an inability to intuitively negotiate the complexities of social dynamics. Even the way I state this points out the difficulties I have in that regard. I've studied the subject for many years to try and overcome the social isolation that results from this inability, but ultimately it's like trying to teach sound to a person born deaf or color to a person born blind. With diligent work someone missing one of these key senses can learn to understand the physics of sounds and acoustic patterns, the mathematics of light frequencies and contrasts, but in the end they miss the complexities of feeling that music evokes, that interplay of colors and shadows that makes a painting so profound to look at. I've spent decades trying to learn the intricacies of social interaction and have failed utterly to gain more than the most rudimentary sense of how it works, and as it turns out as I discovered recently, this inability to perceive social cues is an actual wiring problem. The result of this is that I've never had very many friends at any given time and have rarely had truly close friends, the kind you can talk to about anything. In retrospect, this social deafness is probably what made me a target of bullying the first fifteen years of my life. Being different, especially being different in an inferior manner, is sure to make one a target of the bullies in any social group.

Over the years I've had some really nasty things knock me down, things I almost couldn't get up from. The death of my parents, the failure of my marriage, the death of friends. However, these last 18 months I've experienced a sort of perfect storm of events that really took me down past anything I've experienced before. A major part of that is the house I bought in May 2005. What I thought needed relatively minor work, work that was well within my knowledge and financial abilities to perform, turned out to have major electrical and structural problems. I envisioned making this house, my first home, into a social hub, with parties every month or more often, a place for my friends from the North Texas Fiero Club, ORAC and the Joshua (both Sci-Fi clubs) and others to hang out and be, well, friends. Instead the problems have drained my retirement funds (what little I had) and to date the house is still not livable. I've spent most all of my free time working there alone trying to fix the various problems, so to date I've only had one social gathering there, my ersatz one year anniversary of buying the house celebration. Though it was terrific, I've wanted much more social activities, needed much more social interaction.

In conjunction with the house problems my lack of real wage increases (it's actually declined significantly over the last three years) forced me to give up my internet access, that was in February, and in part was one of the main factors in my decision to give up my telephone in early July. I never made enough to afford a cell phone. In October last year I had to close my shop because it was costing me more than a third of my day job income and not generating enough revenue to even pay rent there which had just gone up from $375 to $500 with another increase to follow shortly. On top of all this I wound up paying over $2000 more than I planned for over the last 12 months alone in increased energy costs, mainly gasoline, that resulted in me being forced to cancel my annual trip to Ed Parks' Fiero Factory Swap Meet where I meet many of my Fiero friends, and my A-KON convention experience. The net result of all this was that I was, and am, fairly financially damaged, but worse, I lost essentially all of the means I had to keep in contact with friends other than rare and exceedingly inconvenient trips to use public internet access at the library and the occasional letter, yes, physical mailed letter.

By the summer of this year I was complaining so much that nobody wanted to be around me. I wasn't depressed yet, but it was coming like a freight train. Friends had long since stopped answering the phone when I called, rarely or never returned any messages, didn't respond to emails, and generally avoided being around me at club meetings and Fiero events. I can't say that I blame them, looking back on it. Then I had a significant health scare this summer and found myself with nobody to turn to, nobody to talk to, nobody to rely on. I was alone in every way that matters. The rest I could cope with, but abandonment by essentially all of my friends hit me hard. I tried everything I could to salvage what I could of my friendships, but not understanding why I was losing them only meant that my efforts had opposite results, horrible results. How bad? The friend that I felt the closest to, that meant the most to me, not only seems to have disgust and contempt for me now but is actually afraid of me. In fear of me. How can I feel about that? It completely undermines one of my three core principles, my very existence. I feel horror and absolute humiliation. That someone I called friend could feel fear of me brings me nothing but shame and complete dishonor. It was during this time that I finally tipped over into real depression, started that long slide to blackness, to fight the black alone.

During this slow trip to hell I started thinking about withdrawing, from society, from everything. I have no friends at work, few if any friends left anywhere else, it would be so easy to do. All I had to do was just stop trying, just stop beating my head pointlessly against society's wall. After all, my attempts to save my friends were only making matters worse; I reasoned that if nothing else, withdrawing would at least stop making things go even more wrong than they already had. I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong anyway so I felt I had nothing to lose. Besides, by this summer I was down to an hour or two once or twice a month in friendly social interaction. The remaining weeks and days I was alone, completely isolated. Because of the rarity of social contact another problem was post-event depression. It seemed that after every social event the whiplash of blackness just got worse and worse. It got to where for every hour of social interaction with friends I spent a day or more at home locked up in the desperate blackness of depression, crying empty tears of despair for hours at a time.

The final straw so to speak was the Roundup this last June. I had a tremendous amount of fun the first two-thirds of it, but during the tubing trip down the Guadalupe river I had a lot of time to think, and to observe the hundreds of friends and couples around me on the river that day. It dawned on me just how isolated I really was, and how alone I was always going to be. It's like Herbert's Little Mouse that drank the Water of Life and saw his future laid out before him, only what I saw was bleak and empty of the things that matter the most to me: friends, love, social life.

Sunday, June 25, 2006, my personal day of infamy, the day my life changed forever.

I remember the moment well. It was below the dam and the rapids. Lightning was starting to arc across the gray sky. I had fallen back from the group. It felt to me that I wasn't connected with them, that even among them I was isolated, alone. They all gripped each other's tubes, talking, laughing, having fun with each other. I couldn't seem to get close enough to join in, the feeling of rejection was overwhelming. Looking around me at the others on the crowded river that day, all the couples and friends experiencing the joy of life together, only served to hammer home to me the futility of even trying.

That's when I made the conscious decision to stop. Simply stop. Stopped leaving unanswered messages on once-friends' voice mails. Stopped calling people, I knew they wouldn't answer anyway. Stopped sending emails, they never responded. Stopped trying to fit in where it seemed I was not wanted. Just stopped. The morning after I got back I called up the phone company to have the phone disconnected. After all, about the only people using it for the last few weeks were telemarketers. There were still some commitments that I had such as being staff on a local literary Sci-Fi convention, etc, that I needed to wrap up. I'm a man of my word, and when I say I'll do something I do it. Once I was done with my commitments I left.

Problem was that being alone, really alone, with nobody to relate or talk to, to spend time with, sent me to a place that started to take its toll on me rapidly. I was losing weight, eating just didn't seem all that important anymore. Dropped 30 pounds in less than two months. My hair started falling out even faster, much of my beard and the hair that hadn't fallen out yet turned gray. I developed serious abdominal pains and other problems that sent me to the doctor, results were inconclusive, the doctor didn't seem interested in helping me. I tried to go to a couple of events, the NTFC swim party for one and one day of the Ruckus for another, but the isolation and the blackness of my despair only got worse. I've never felt more alone than when I was in the middle of a group of people that once called me friend at those two events. They were disasters. I think I would have been better off if I hadn't gone. I feel like I even managed to alienate what few friends I might have had left at both events without even attempting to figure out why.

One stupid thing I did at the Ruckus was to return a really nice Fiero-related gift to someone who was once a good friend of mine, telling them that I "...didn't want it to be lost to the Fiero community". Looking back on that it was obviously a cry for help, at the time I was having serious doubts of being alive by the end of the year. The look on that friend's face was appalling, you could literally see the doors shut behind their eyes, and for the rest of the event that friend wouldn't talk to me at all, and pretty much ever since. I later sent a letter to that friend trying to apologize for the gift debacle but that letter was also a cry for help, poorly written and emotionally mangled, inspiring nothing but disgust and maybe even contempt. It elicited a response that could only be classified as brutal, harsh.

What I was feeling was worse than grieving over my parents, both of whom died during the 1998 holiday season. Worse than when my wife left me in 2000. Worse than when I buried a friend of mine who was murdered in 1996. Continuous waves of the black ichor of grief would crawl their way up the inside of my spine and explode behind my eyes, non-stop, for hours or days at a time. Sleep escaped me often, transforming me into something I've never been, a morning person. That started the day after the Roundup. I now spontaneously awake at 5:30, 6:00 am, sometimes earlier, where it used to be a major struggle to get up before 10 or 11 am. I saw only one destination at the end of this road. It should have scared me but it didn't, and I actually started feeling at peace with that final end to my pain, my suffering, a way to stop hurting those around me and inspiring fear in the people I once called Friend, to stop being alone.

Then just after Halloween I received a letter from a friend I lost early on this journey, a letter that was in response to one I had sent that in retrospect was a last desperate cry for help. This friend was one of my more favorite friends (and the most painful to lose, in fact). It was harsh, even brutal. But it was honest. The letter helped though I doubt if the sender intended it to. It helped me understand why I lost almost all of my friends, how I was driving them away from me. I realized that as I told people about my various travails with the house and my life in general I was shifting a burden to them, unfairly forcing them to bear a load that was mine alone to carry. My complaining about my difficulties was one of the many factors that made me unpleasant to be around. That letter forced me to understand that it was my responsibility, mine alone, for driving away my friends. The letter came just in time, because through all of this I still had one friend. One person who put up with my crap (who knows why, I never will).

This friend made the extra attempts to get past my lack of phone and internet service just to see how I was doing, just to stay in contact. The pull of that lone friendly contact combined with the gut-kick of the letter pushed me slightly out of the center of my personal black hell. Now the horizon seems slightly less black in one direction, so that's the direction I'm striking out on. I will probably still lose that one friend, the damage I've done is so severe, but as long as I keep moving then I'll have a little hope. The fact that I might still have a friend motivates me to try and start over as best as I can despite my inability to understand society's secret emotional language.

The underlying problems still remain, some of which can't be fixed. The inability to comprehend social dynamics appears to be structural not learned, no amount of book reading or study will gain me much natural ability in the social dance. Whatever functionality I do gain will be awkward and coarse. Financial restrictions will prevent me from getting a phone or internet for the indefinite future, that in turn will continue to limit my opportunities for friendly social interaction, plus there are few people left anyway that I think would invite me into their lives. I haven't been able to design goals that can produce a good long-term financial future so I've decided to not worry about it simply because the more I think about it the worse I feel. I'm still battling cycles of depression brought on by being socially isolated most of the time but I'll have to bear them best as I can. At least now they're not as bad as they were even two weeks ago and there are moments of respite between the waves.

What changes can I do, am I doing? For one, I'm working on learning how to like myself again, because at least I can when nobody else does. One way is to try to improving my physical appearance, maybe if I like the way I look I can like myself a little bit. I've taken up something I never tried before, weight lifting. Like breast implants are for a woman I guess muscles are for a male, but since there's no such thing as muscle implants I'm doing them the old fashioned way. I'll never be handsome or attractive in any way, but at least I'll be better if only a little bit. I've committed myself to becoming more physically fit, though how much will be limited at my age. I can leverage the 30 pounds I lost, that gives me a head start. Somewhere along the way I seem to have lost my underlying optimism, I will redouble my efforts to find it again. Being more pleasant to be around is one key, honey and flies and all that, so I will make a conscious effort to be just that regardless of how I might be feeling on any given day. As part of being nicer I will strive to listen more and talk less. I've found that I like the sound of my own voice a bit too much anyway, so this fits in nicely.

How has this changed me? Well, aside from the aforementioned physical changes I have a greater appreciate of the value of friendships. I have to take them far more seriously than I have in the past. Since the death of my parents and the failure of my marriage those friendships are the only thing I have, or had, left. I've been writing a lot, much more than I ever have in my life. This post is the longest thing I've ever written, and I find that writing to explore my feelings and thoughts is actually helping a little.

I'm not seeking absolution or forgiveness with this post, nor do I expect to be able to save any of the friendships I destroyed though I will try, have to try. To tell the truth, other than attempting to start healing myself I'm not exactly sure what I will accomplish in doing this. I'm a very private person, so this very public post represents a complete departure for me into uncharted territory. What I've done in my life and to my life and friends is my responsibility and mine alone. Maybe by deconstructing myself so publically I can get a clean break, enough to start over with. If you managed to get this far you're a very dedicated reader, that's for sure. And to the two people here that sent me those items, again, thank you very much.

James

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 02-15-2007).]

taken from the other thread... (while correcting a typo)

Wow James, I know that took a while to type. But putting thoughts on paper (or bbs) can be VERY therapuetic, and a way to deal with many problems, see things from different perspectives (things in printed word 'sound' different than when spoken), and can provide for a cooling down period if needed.

glad to see you back on the forum.

Godspeed, Jazzman.Wish I was nearer.I would love to help you in any way I can.
Nick

Hate to sound like an AA meeting, but admitting you had the problem was the first step. You saw there was a problem and now you're doing what you can to fix it. Sounds like you have a good friend there. Despite you trying to pull away and withdraw, he wouldn't let you because he was your friend. Your true friend. Only a true friend would shoot from the hip like that in the letter to try and keep something from happening to you. If you haven't tried it yet and have a place you can do it, try jogging. It's free and can really clear the mind sometimes. Maybe you'll meet a jogging buddy while you're out there. Keep up the good work. Glad to have ya back.

------------------
Whade' "The Duck Formerly Known As Wade" Duck
'87 GT Auto
'88 Ferrario
'84 Indy (8/26/06)

Nice to hear from you, and yes I did read the entire post. Maybe the house is part of the isolation problem? Ever consider selling it and moving to a more socially connected environment, like a city?

Just wanted to say thanks for your postings here, I've benefitted from your help.

Jazzman, James. I read almost all of that. I did speed read a bunch, there is a bunch there. It is painfull seeing you describe me. In many aspects.
I also was bullied. It was started at a very early age by someone who was supposed to prtoect and nurture me. My father . It has not stopped to this day...even though he is a good pretender. I was never good enough. I was never gonna amount to anything. I was worthless.
Until I liked myself. Which was hard to do. Not expecting to be anything, I would shoot myself in the foot all the time. When I wasn't shooting myself in the foot, I was shooting myself in the other foot. Really. God had no control over my life because I would not let Him. (This is not a religious diatribe). In all my sorrow and self loathing, I knew one thing. It was "right". Compassion, fairness, honesty, working instead of handouts, ..........just doing "right". I really was not very good at it. At first. I am still perfecting it.
The only way I could like myself was doing the best I could. It did not matter if it was good enough, it was my best. I have been in many a suck a$$ situation where I could feel good. I could feel proud of my travails. Because they did not intimidate me any more (read 'I quit feeling sorry for myself') I realized that I could overcome them. James, I am still trying. But I like myself.
It is good to see ya post Jazz. Life is many faceted. There is no one answer.
Let me reflect on your post some more.

Its not the quantity of friends its the quality.
I know where you have been. I have struggled with substance abuse in one form or another. I have always been able to quit when I needed to. Until I started drinking, it took almost killing myself before I quit. I didn’t even know I had a problem. But after being forced to look at my life I saw just how bad it was and wanted to change.

When you're looking at the end of your life and it looks good to you things have to change.
I’m glad you are finding your path back, it takes great internal strength to not choose the easy path.
I have always found you to be a very helpful person and do miss your input on some of the new threads that have popped up after you stopped posting.
God bless and good luck.

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 11-14-2006).]

Read the whole thing, just like I do EVERY post.
I am the kind, that if you took the time to write it, the least I can do is read it.
It was well written, honest, and something most of us can relate to.
Thank you.

I too used to "drown" in socail situations.
So I had to drink to survive it.
But I soon found a better way.
Be funny!
Goof off!

Walk into a room, trip yourself, then jump up and yell, "My finger smells like asparigus!"
You'll have them ROLLING!
Let people laugh at you.
Laugh at yourself.

Same with your problems.
Instead of saying, "I got screwed on this house!", say "This house knows a good screwing when it sees it!"
Flip the script on your outlook.
Tell everyone, "I'm your good luck charm! Bad sheet will fly right by you to get to me!"

Raise your head up.
Get up every morning and yell, "Good morning, Day, you rotten bastard! Bring your best, you won't beat me, NOT TODAY! I got ONE more in me! In your face, beeatch!"

If you feel like complaining, don't.
Just mentally put one finger up in the air, and wave it like you just don't care.
"Fugg you, I'm still here, and i'll be here tommorrow, right back at it. You can't beat me!"
Just keep chipping away, a little at a time, and before you know it, a rock is a pebble.

I know you got the strength to do these things.
Fuggit, it is what it is.
Just keep getting up in it's face.
It'll get tired and cut you a break!

Good luck, and stay in touch.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: JazzMan

No need to save friendships that were destroyed because true friendships cant be. You got friends here bub.
We do miss you round here.... Kloddster probably misses ya too...

It can be tough but its those who are there for you that make it seem just alittle better when you need it most. In any case have a good cry and let it go... it gets better.

ultimately, we are all alone. this is neither inherently good nor bad. the social aspect can make us cattle, and the solitary aspect can make us wolves. as usual, the middle ground is best.

people are not that mysterious. we operate on selfish motives, at worst, sheer greed and immediate gratification, at best "enlightened self-interest". those who make efforts, even sacrifices, for others do so to gratify some inner need of their own. if you are willing to recognize those inner needs you can make them work for yourself and for others.

keep doing what you're doing, but remember two key points:
take care of # 1. if you dont help yourself, you cant help anyone else.
invest your efforts in the worthy. you cannot save someone who doesnt want to be saved.

Glad you survived this recent ordeal.

FIgure out what will make you feel
"happy" and don't try to bend yourself to fit into some alien social dynamic...It's like trying to realize "The American Dream" (talk about gettin' all depressed)


Ever notice every hero myth has the hero undergoing at least one "death" period? From the ancient warriors to Luke Skywaker...

You come crawling out of the dark cave, you leave behind pieces of yourself, sloughing them like a snake would their old skin.

It's a painful release of things unwanted. Then, you rebuild your strength, and continue on in the journey...

The worst thing to do is to "end it". Life can REALLY suck. Life is suffering, but life can be friggin' wonderful too...Just start off enjoying small aspects of life.

I've had several "BAD" periods of my life. I am still around. (Don't REALLY wanna discuss it here.)
I have my scars and I understand what you say when you just wanted to "STOP"...

I'm very glad you had someone to help you through this rough time. Wish I could say it will be the last one you will experience...

but perhaps the next time, you will see it coming, and it won't be so severe.

Be well.

-FieroRumor


Edit: heh, take a look at the Aavatar choices of the people replying to your original post...

[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 11-14-2006).]

Jazz good to hear from you!

have you ever thought about seeking psychiatric therapy? if you have a chemical imbalance you are not going to be able to "think" your way out of it. its not a matter of just keeping yourself busy or having a better attitude.

its like a person in the middle of having a heart attack who decides to eat better and exercise. at that point there is nothing you can do and you need to get help.

the problems you wrote about, lack of money, the problems with the house, lack of social contact, are things that may get you down from time to time but shouldn't send you into a major depression.

i wish you well my friend and hope to see you post more often.

Jeremy

Hey JazzMan,
I'm pretty sure what i'm about to type here wont help in any way but i feel like i need to put my 2 cents in. I have been told by a shink that i'm socialaphobic and borderline agoraphobic. Honestly man it sucks. I'll probably never be over it. I panic every thursday when i force myself out of my house to go talk to other car nuts at the local dunkin donuts. Why, you might ask. Because i know if i don't i'll go back to a place i never want to be again. (hanging from a rope) You see i once too had the wonderful experience of having a friend help me out of my bad spot. (cutting the rope when he found me) At that exact moment i realized that people aren't as bad i deemed them to be in my mind. Some people out there do have the same "core" as you. I too help people (even ones i don't know) till they give me a reason not to. All i can say is a true friend will be there at your lowest of points and not judge you. Sometimes that friend may slap you in the face when your acting a little crazy, but sometimes we need that as people. You see i've been through hell and back with almost no friends to show for it... but then i realized after reading your entire post that the reason they are still my friends is because they care. I care about them as well. Ok... maybe this is more like $5.00 instead of 2 cents but i hope things go good for you man. From what i gather being new to this forum and so far not being really accepted here as of yet... you have a large backing of people at least here that like you as a person with good insight. So next time you go to a fiero (for lack of a better word right now) "meeting" remember this thread and all the people who have responded, and those who will respond after me. You are wanted and needed here with all the fiero nuts. Myself included. If you need to vent as everybody does. Find a new ear to listen to what you have to say that doesn't know what is going on with you. I have an inmate pen pal for such a reason. Weird i know but it helps. On a different note. If your ever near my way PM me first and we'll sit down an B.S... i know my wife wont mind. Food and drinks on me. Well my post is getting just about as long as yours so i'll shut up now and give somebody else a chance to show thier support.

~Dave~

And I just LOVE the title of this thread!
Sometimes you just gotta tear 'er down to the foundation before you can rebuild.
In some cases, repair is just a patch.
You want new, you gotta build new!

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-14-2006).]

I always liked this one: "All journeys leave marks on us"

It's good to remember where you came from, and it's good to enjoy your life, however you choose to live it. Don't focus on what ya DON'T do well, ESPECIALLY when it comes to other people...Most of them are pretty Effed up in the head, or are secretly miserable...They just know how to either: ut on a "Mask", lie to themselves Drink themselves numb, or not let it bother them...etc...

Gonna get some shut-eye.

Drugs help.
Do you have medical insurance?

You, my friend, are depressed. You described almost the exact same symptoms I had over 25 years ago (weight loss, withdrawal, isolation). There are medications that can and do work to eliminate this disease. Yes it is a disease, or specifically a chemical imbalance in the brain.

You cannot fix this condition by a logical assesment of your life or a plan. You need a doctor to prescribe an anti-depressant that will increase a specfic chemical within the brain.

When I was depressed, I also sought out the help of friends (just to talk), but they did not understand and did not help. It was not their fault.

I went to a doctor in 1981 and described my problem, he was taking notes and listening intently, finally he said " you are suffering from depression and we are going to fix that" I was so relieved, finally someone to help, someone that understood.

The medication worked wonders for me. Today there are far more effective medications on the market.

See a doctor, start taking an antidepressent, in 6 months or less you will look back at what you wrote and smile, with 10 new friends sitting next to you......Paul

[This message has been edited by Paul Prince (edited 11-15-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Paul Prince: You, my friend, are depressed... The Doc said :"you are suffering from depression and we are going to fix that"

That's AWESOME! It is so vitally important to find a doctor that is willing to help you "get back on your feet", and not just start prescribing multiple meds for long periods...

Sometimes, a person has an imbalance, and needs to take meds for life, but very often, they DON'T need meds for life, they just need them for a short time, or not at all...

You are so right when you say that if you are REALLY depressed, it is unlikely you will "think yerself better"...

I had a BAD SPELL about a decade ago. I basically was fallin' apart during my final semester in school. Pressure and stress were KILLIN' me. had a friend swallow a shotgun. Had a few other bad things all happening at one time. and I was a mess. Job market was lookin' BAD, life was just a dark, dark hole. I was FREAKIN' out. I'd be in class, or a lab, and I would feel like I needed to get the hell out of there THAT instant. (like there was a bear in there... typical "panic attack" type of stuff.) Doc gave me some Clonopin, and for me, that was akin to breathing in nitrious oxide... I was able to get through that month, I was able to sit there, and even though I was feeling all these 'ARGGGGHHHH!" feelings, at the same time, I was able to sit there and realize, yeah, my adrenaline is shooting through the roof...but there IS NO BEAR! It's like jonesin' for a ciggarette... It comes, and then, it passes. Haven't had anything like that happen again. Every now and then, I'll hear the bear knocking, but instead of freakin', I'd let him in.

When you are able to ,

Realize what the root of your suffering is.

Realize some of it will NEVER be resolved, so it's pointless to keep focusing on it.

See if there is any way you can remove any of the causes of your suffering.

If there is a project, break it into teeny pieces. (like you were doing with yer house.)
If you NEED stuff, maybe we can help you. maybe we can't build your house for you, but If you set up a way we can send you crap (like nails, computer outlets, etc) it might help...

It helps to have someone in your life that can not only keep you on the recovery path, but can introduce you to new stuff...
And find some simple stuff that can bring some sort of happiness to you. It doesn't hafta be something amazing or expensive. And if the thing fails/dies/doesn't work, it's no biggie...


I did this with the mantis egg cases. And some apps. most of the projects I have done (and sometimes even FINISHED)

Small stuff that won't be mentally taxing to you.


And also, you must , MUST, MUST eventually get outta that job, if you don't like it. But don't try to focus on too much at one... or change too much.

Baby steps, like Bob does in "what about Bob"...


Sometimes, you help someone out, and you don't realize how much it affects them. Could be a minor thing to you, and you could have been paid for it, and just think "it's just another 'job' done", but man, EVERY time I get behind the wheel of my car, I say "Thanks, Jazzman!!!"

EVERY time.

I couldn't get that darn universal joint back on, and it was soooooooooooo frustrating. You fixed my column, and relieved my suffering.

You have posted so many helpful pics, and helped many people with their Fiero woes...

You're 'good people".


Shine on, you crazy diamond.


-FieroRumor

quote Originally posted by FieroRumor: Sometimes, a person has an imbalance, and needs to take meds for life, but very often, they DON'T need meds for life, they just need them for a short time, or not at all... -FieroRumor

Absolutely true. It can be caused from a divorce, loss of parents, health condition etc. You may only take it for 6 months or 3 months. Trust me that depression is nothing to take lightly. I also found that excercise helped me a great deal.........Paul

quote Originally posted by Paul Prince: Absolutely true. It can be caused from a divorce, loss of parents, health condition etc. You may only take it for 6 months or 3 months. Trust me that depression is nothing to take lightly. I also found that excercise helped me a great deal.........Paul

Yeah, exercise releases all sorts of happy chemicals. Also makes ya sexier to all the ladies. (I'm married now, and thus, I now look less like my old "greek god" days... )

Diet also helps... Feed the machine GOOD fuel. The brain will thank you.

I had a friend that had a BAD doc, he basically gave him cocktails of drugs, and made matters worse. (5 or 6 drugs that do opposite things, and don't play nicely together) But my friend trusted this guy, and he only really improved after he moved up north, and got a new doc.

Jazz, do me a favor. Look in the mirror and say I am a badass. Say it. Be it. You can’t expect other people to respect/care for you when you barely respect/care for yourself. If need be, see a doctor about depression, but realize you’re awesome. You reminded me of a Red vs. Blue episode “Why would I want to meet new people? I mean, I’m Jazz. Knowing other people just waters down the experience.” I’m younger, and have less experience than you, but my life has kicked me hard too. Parents have kicked me out. I’ve been negative broke. Girl went crazy. But chin up. You have a pulse and you DO have people that care about you, I promise. My cell is 757.503.1249. Call it if you just want someone to talk to, I promise I’ll answer. Out of curiousity, where are you working now and whats your specialty? If I could give you a friendly, non-gay hug I would. But seeing how sexy you are and how hot and bothered that makes me, the hug would quickly escalate into me wanting more. Eventually I would declare my love to you which you would reject me and I would go cry myself to sleep for weeks. So I’ll leave it as a pat on the back. Cheer up bud!

Oh and as rumor said, if you need any outlets or anything lemme know, I have about 20394782389749 extra you can have

[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 11-15-2006).]

James,

I read every word of your post, and have read most all of the responses.
First... I'm glad you're here. I'm happy to see you posting again.
I also noticed your absence at the swap meet. Figured it was for financial reasons, but still...
I had gotten used to seeing you there.

Anyway, I see lots of good advice in this thread.
I have had a tendency toward anxiety attacks and depression with a touch of agoraphobia thrown in. I frequently feel like "the square peg in the social circle" (I forget where I heard that, but it sounded profound at the time), so I can sympathize.

The only caution I'll offer regarding antidepressants is that there are quite a few different types and formulations. They're definitely not "once size fits all". The first ones they try may not have the desired effect, and may have quite the opposite.
If that happens, just recognize that it's the meds. Tell your doctor.
My "bad experience" was with Xanax. I thought I was an odd exception, but I spoke with someone else whose wife also had a bad experience with them.

Having said all that...
I feel like you don't give yourself enough credit.
You're a good man. Even though you are many hours away, I consider you a friend.
I actually entertained thoughts about showing up at one of the events y'all held a while back. (I don't think it was the ruckus. Just a small get-together that you posted about.) Unfortunately, my schedule prevented it.

In any event, I am happy to see you back.
You are an "institution" here, on the Forum.
Take care, my friend.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 11-15-2006).]

Get a grip on it then--

Lets get alone together!

quote Originally posted by Raydar: I feel like you don't give yourself enough credit.

Hear hear !
James, a lot of good advice here. All worthy of thought. Umm, medical depression is a real possibility. Of course, I understand that just seeing a doctors bill can itself cause depression.
Someone mentioned exercise. Good idea. Diet is also important. I tend to believe you have covered these bases. Circumspection is good though.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Let me reflect on your post some more.

I have been thinking. not always a good thing . Thinking about my own demons. I see that with me, I can actually cause my own depression. Often because of my perception of the happiness of others. More likely, my perception of that happiness. Or success. Or luck. Many times we see just a facade. It is also dis-satisfaction with myself. I also used to not give myself enough credit. And also at other times give myself too much. I, no one, gets it right all the time.
Members are insinuating that you are clinically depressed. Very possible. With many of us also being so. Do not confuse depression with discouragement. You have had some hard hits in life recently. Things really do not seem that far out of tilt, considering. Give yourself some time. Acknowledge that is ok to feel bummed out. It is a healthy emotion.
I am actually a little depressed with some things in my life.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: I am in good health. Physicals every year. Full head of hair, don't wear glasses, never miss work because I am sick. Mentally....a whole different animal.

from here
I will change one thing at a time. It does not even have to be the things I am unhappy with. I will try different things. Do different stuff. There is a whole other world out there. I just have to find it.
Medical solutions can help. Consider them. Psychological ones also. One being that you are not giving yourself enough credit. Do not base your opinion of yourself on what you think others think about you. Another.....explore other interests. Get involved with a different life. Theater? Museums? Art? Change is good. Volunteer work (many choices there) is very rewarding and self satifying.
I had/have poor interaction skills. Have being the operative word. This occurs in certain circles though. Where are the cliche's? "one man's trash........", "a rose by any....", "diamond in the rough".
Ya know, I am gonna have to scold ya. Many people have worse problems. Maybe many of us. I think you are doing good. More so probably than a lot of us.
.
.
.
.
ehhh...I am rambling.
One foot in front of the other James. Hut two.

Just to clarify, Xanax and Klonipin are of a class of drugs called benzodiazepines (sp) as is Valuim. These are anti-anxiety drugs and used also for siezures. They are also used for insomnia. Valium at one time was the most widely prescribed drug ever. They act the same as alcohol, 5mg of Valium = 1 beer. They can be addictive and are not prescribed near as much as they once were.

Anti-depressants such as Paxil work on the serotonin (sp) level in the brain. This brain chemical gives one a sense of well-being. All these drugs have side effects.

Paxil for example is given by urologists to some men to delay ejaculation (the premature type ). Finding a good Dr. is the first step as well as asking him/her a lot of questions.

I have seen anti-depressants work wonders on people, a person I know is taking one and his behavior has changed 180*, for the better.......Paul

quote Originally posted by Paul Prince: Just to clarify, Xanax and Klonipin are of a class of drugs called benzodiazepines (sp) as is Valuim. These are anti-anxiety drugs and used also for siezures.... Anti-depressants such as Paxil work on the serotonin (sp) level in the brain. This brain chemical gives one a sense of well-being...

Thank you for the clarification.

Xanax was 'sold' to me as an antidepressant. Had quite the opposite effect.
Probably at least partially due to the fact that I was washing them down with a beer or two.
It wasn't a good time.

James
I`m sorry we didn`t get to talk more at the Ruckus. I didn`t really know everyone vey well and I just sort of floated around. I`m sorry you didn`t feel more like a part of the event and hopefully we will get to talk more at one of the future events. I know that from the stuff I have read and from what I have heard you are a big plus in the Fiero owners group.
Mike

Wow, James- I never got the impression you were unlikable or anything like that. I knew you were having problems with the house, I just now after 10 years have been able to start putting mine into the shape I wanted it in... but there is always more to do. Getting it livable... well, that is the most important.
I have always thought your posts were intelligent, any argument you put out there defensible whether I agreed or not, but I never got the impression you were that depressed... I mean, any more than people normally get. I believe a certain amount of depression is normal, dare I say even healthy? My wife went through a bout some time ago and a doctor put her on Prozac. It was good for a while, then I thought I had one of them Stepford wives. She weaned herself off the stuff. Straight up told the doc she was quitting. He didn't seem super concerned. She's cranky at times, and we've certainly had some really stressful things come up since then, but she has not considered going back on the stuff.
Anyway, two things about your post stand out to me... you''ve had some type of personal resolution in order to write the above post so eloquently, and you're doing something. Working out. Making a public statement. Reflecting on the past. Just seems to me to be a turning point.
The house, money, the past... those things are less important than you think - seriously. It probably doesn't seem true, but every day you force yourself to move in the direction you've seen as the right way to go, it is a successful day.
Your post was obviously hard for you to put out there, I don't know you personally, but in a weird way I feel I know many of those on PFF. I like to see people succeed, and something in your tone sounds like someone who has made up his mind to do so.
Good Luck, you know we (the anonymous crowd of strange user names) are pulling for you.

Jazzman,

The suggestions people have had seem to be pretty good. excercise helps the body and mind feel much better. Eating good healthy foods is very beneficial too. I personally would not recommend drugs, of any kind, but if you see a doctor and they feel it necessary, you could go that rought. I seem to see one aspect that is missing here, and I feel I should point it out. You said that

quote a great man I admire once said, "The truth shall set you free."

I think that there is a good reason for that. John 8:32 It looks like to me that you are missing God in your life. Try opening up a Bible and read. I think you will find a lot of help there. If you are missing social interaction, try out some of the churches around you on Sundays. You will always have a freind in Jesus. Good luck to you and I pray things get better for you.

Jazz, you and I do not always agree, but you are always fair, honorable, and reasonable. I would miss your lack of input, and I have forgotten how often your posts have helped me, not because the help was insignificant, but because it was so frequent. And as someone else mentioned above, I have never found you to be unlikable in any respect.

I think maybe there are some of us who cannot relate to others as well as most because those few are perhaps somewhat more cerebral; akin to, perhaps, someone who doesn't follow, say, professional sports, because they realize that it doesn't matter a tinker's damn in the larger scheme of things, who won or lost the Super Bowl.

They think and care about weightier things, and are unable, I think, to relate to many people on a more casual level. The loss is ours, not theirs, and yet, they feel the void caused by the lack of human contact, as though it were something they inadvertently caused, and should feel remorse for. Perhaps they are actually the first fitful starts in "next year's model" of Homo Sapiens, and feel as isolated as the first members of the current incarnation of Homo Sapiens felt when born to members of the last genus. Can you imagine it?

In any event, James, I am definitely better for having known you, even if only through this venue.

Thanks

Tony

Jazzman - By the look of all these responses, you have more friends than I do. I am actually jealous. As already stated, all good advice. Do it all, plus one more thing. Do one thing positive for yourself or someone else every day; just one little thing. You will start to feel better about yourself immediately. Here's an example and please think about it, it is not as peculiar as it may first appear. Several years ago I watched the movie "Seven Years In Tibet", with Brad Pitt. He was building a movie theater for the Dali Lama and was asked to be careful as he dug into the ground -"You are hurting the worms" was the concern. To this day, whenever I dig a hole in my yard to plant something or to dig something out, I first dig another small hole. Any worms I come across in doing the digging I place individually in the small hole and cover each with a little dirt. When I finish the project I cover the new home for the worms I saved with more dirt.
The worms never hurt me so I do not hurt them.
Just the thought process of what's involved with the worm example can be extended into everyday life. It doesn't necessarily make you a better person; but it simply starts to remove the
artifical covering from the good person you are in the first place. Since this is a Fiero Forum, it's llike cleaning the winter grime off of your Fiero on first day of Spring; wash it, use the clay bar, use the good polish and wax. WOW - do you look and feel great. Best regards, Ed

------------------

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Nice to hear from you, and yes I did read the entire post. Maybe the house is part of the isolation problem? Ever consider selling it and moving to a more socially connected environment, like a city?

I'm on a busy street in a city of almost 400,000 people in a metropolitan area of almost 6,000,000. The social isolation and inability to connect isn't due to my environment, it's built into me. Because of the problems with the house I'm actually upside down on it now despite having put 20% down in cash on it. Besides, it has nice trees and I like trees.

I think I'll start signing my actual name from now on.

James

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I want to thank everyone for their support and meaningful replies to this thread. To be honest, I wasn't expecting this kind of response, or at least not on this scale, and it helps tremendously. Damn, I'm in a public library surrounded by people on computers while I type this and I have to choke back tears in silence. The only clue they might have is my running nose, let them think it's allergies. Anyway, thanks again for the kind words of support, they mean a lot to me. James

Keep yer' head up, Boss!

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I'm on a busy street in a city of almost 400,000 people in a metropolitan area of almost 6,000,000. The social isolation and inability to connect isn't due to my environment, it's built into me.

I think I see your problem. You’re delusional. kidding about the delusional part, but your quote deserves some thought.
James, I was brought up as a 'military brat'. I have always had people around me yet I also felt isolation. Being in an area with 400,000 in a metropolitan area of 6,000,000 is not a plus when it comes to developing a social circle. Heck, people simply do not have the time to meet all 6,000,000. Fact is, they are probably tired of meeting people. People in the 'big city' usually do not give you the time of day. Life is fast in the big city. Busy busy busy. Many people are there for just a fleeting moment in the grand scheme of things.
I grew up in San Antonio, from the fifth grade on. A population, which used to rival Dallas/Fort Worth. I grew up knocking myself down. I did not have what they had. A social circle. Seemed like I would always transfer schools and any friend I might make belonged to a click. Really, it was not a click; it was just time-developed relationships. They had roots. They had family. They had friends.
Being the 'new guy on the block' I tried to fit in. I wanted what they had. I...most people who try and don't understand, try too hard. So, I ended up a loner. No big deal, I was used to it. Always moving and transferring. You know what? I got damn good at it. It is a strength of mine. One I value. I cannot convey how much.
I learned to live with myself. To accept myself. To like myself. I learned to become my own friend. It has served me well. Back to your delusional thought. Back in 94, I moved to Medina Lake, outside of Bandera (population 800). Small town country living. I also work the oil fields. All work locations in the middle of nowhere. I found it easier to meet people, and developed relationships, in that kind of environment. People have more time, more time to be real.
On the subject of friends. One could say their value is over rated. The word friend has become a generic term. Especially in today’s disposable society. I had a neighbor, which used to say, "you can trust your enemies but you can not trust your friends". His reasoning was that you knew where your enemies stood. True friends are like the 'right' woman. It takes time, sometimes allot of time, to find them.
A recent thread on friends.
Again, many have a perception problem. We think other people are rich. We think other people are happy. We think other people are successful. Many times this is far from reality. Because of these thoughts, we think we don't measure up. Again, far from reality. But we depress ourselves to some degree. Depression is one thing that does snowball.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 11-19-2006).]

I have readevery word in this topic and think it can help me with all my problems too. The forum is a great place to vent and get help with life. I have only met about 6 to 10 people from this place in person but consider many upon many of these people here to be great friends. Thanks for posting this James I think you are helping more people than you know by what you have started in this topic. Thanks
G.

Oh yeah, when I was having bad problems last someone sent me this!!!
It really helps if you try it, don't ask why it just does

James,

Are you by any chance using any foods with artificial sweeteners, espescially sucralose (Splenda)?

Your first post pretty much describes my attitude exactly for the last year or so. I was to the point last week of considering seeking medical attention for depression. I just didn't feel right in so many ways, physical as well as mental.

For completely unrelated reasons, I stopped drinking my usual 2 or 3 artificially sweetened sodas per day over the course of this past weekend. I have always had a weight problem, and I hate Nutra-Sweet, but I was OK with the Sucralose (I thought).

I put 2 and 2 together on Sunday, and started looking up the possible side effects of Sucralose. This is me!

Joint pain (especially in the knees)
Depression
Irritability
Clouded thinking
Agoraphobia
Shaking / Jitters

These are just the highlights of a long list of things that have been making my life generally miserable. Nothing works out right for me, and I just didn't feel like doing anything. (Not suicidal, just apathetic toward everything.)

I feel so much better after just 2 days of dumping this crap that I can't begin to describe it. I had no idea that something as simple as a food additive could basically ruin my life.

Maybe this will be helpful to you, or somebody else reading this post. Best wishes in any case, and I hope things start looking up for you.

Gary

quote Originally posted by Firefighter:

Well said.