quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: Revelations 20:12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

so, going by this, the Eskimo's & Aztecs have a chance! yay Eskimo's!
live a good clean Eskimo life, and you get to go to Eskimo heavan. good for them.
and in fact, this means all good people, chruchy or not, are fine.
and all bad people, churchy or not, are not so fine.
and, the best part of all - you cant buy your way in, no matter what the church says.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: so, going by this, the Eskimo's & Aztecs have a chance! yay Eskimo's! live a good clean Eskimo life, and you get to go to Eskimo heavan. good for them. and in fact, this means all good people, chruchy or not, are fine. and all bad people, churchy or not, are not so fine. and, the best part of all - you cant buy your way in, no matter what the church says.

Well, you are right about the "churchy" part. That doesn't enter into the equation.

Unfortunately, there is this verse:

Revelations 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Somewhere in that list, everyone would fall. One or more categories. Doesn't really matter after you fall into one, whether it is just that one or all.

Also:

Romans 3:9What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Eskimos and Aztecs fall into the Gentile category. Plus they almost certainly fall into the unbeliever and idolater category, and liar category.

The context in these verses, and repeated throughout the Bible over and over, is that no one is "good", as in "good-enough-to-qualify-for-heaven-based-on-their-works". It isn't saying some people aren't "good-er" than others. That is obvious. Just saying that the very nicest person that you can think of right now, when they are being judged according to their works, isn't going to qualify based on the good things they have done.

But you are right when you say you can't buy your way in, no matter what the church says. The Bible does say that you can be GIVEN your way in, though. That is why the Messiah came. To buy your way in for you, and then give it to you, IF you will give him permission to do that.

So, again, very interesting thread. But the Eskimos and Aztecs--well, they still are right where you wondered at the beginning of the thread.

There have been some very interesting questions and good viewpoints brought up by many in this thread. Yet again I will say that I am not TELLING anyone whether or not to believe the Bible. What I am pointing out is that the Bible is a large book that takes a long time to read through. But it is important to read through (assuming someone cares what it says) because if there is possible ambiguity in one isolated section about what it means, that ambiguity goes away completely when you read the whole thing and take it in its entire context.

damn....
me being a sorcerer is bad?
well, crap....
or do they just mean the bad kind that does bad stuff?
I always thought healing the sick and turning water into wine was a good thing....
guess its all in who your parents are......

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pyrthian:


me being a sorcerer is bad?

QUOTE]

I used the King James Version, which is translated into the english language of 1610.

pharmakeus is the actual greek word. It is one of the root words that winds up being translated to pharmacy, pharmacists, pharmaceuticals, etc.

It is the idea of using drugs to obtain a certain non-medicinal effect. The context and translation isn't someone that is trying to be helpful and legitimately provide healing benefit. It would be like people giving lsd, narcotics, pcp, crystal meth. etc. etc. to alter someone's mental capacity. Which I guess back in those days, people would use that in idol worship, etc.

I don't know if there is a single word in 2006 U.S. english that really fits that original greek word. But anyway, that is what the idea is.

ah, all the Rite-Aid & CVS dudes are doomed....lol - no, I know whatcha mean

good, I will continue my sorcerering
Rocky - watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!

"Look at Paul. Beaten. Look at Stephen. Stoned. Look at Joseph. Sold into slavery by his brothers. Etc."
These guys were all sainted, right? If they were, then my "God Premises" still holds up; as it would be better for someone to be a saint then not to be. It doesn't hold up when talking about examples of more modern people. Everyday people.

quote Originally posted by AV8DAY: "Look at Paul. Beaten. Look at Stephen. Stoned. Look at Joseph. Sold into slavery by his brothers. Etc." These guys were all sainted, right? If they were, then my "God Premises" still holds up; as it would be better for someone to be a saint then not to be. It doesn't hold up when talking about examples of more modern people. Everyday people.

Good point. Actually, the Bible definition of a saint is that every believer is one. The "sainting" thing is a catholic thing and not a Biblical thing.

Regardless, yes, it was the best thing that could happen for them to have those "bad" or "evil" things happen to them. The real issue, though, is that NOW, in retrospect, it is obvious it was the best thing. At the moment things are happening to people, though, it may not FEEL like the best thing, and you don't have the advantage of being able to retrospectively look at it at that time.

So I would contend that you make an excellent point. And that, even if we aren't sainted by the catholic church, your point still stands that some things that seem to be evil and bad for us at the time, it ultimately is for our best even if it doesn't seem like it at the moment it occurs.