I guess this would end up being political, so I put it under politics.

http://www.wftv.com/news/9700675/detail.html
"Sons of Confederate Veterans wants to get a confederate flag plate added to the list of specialty plates in Florida."

Here's an example of the plate:


I like the design, since it uses all of the different CSA flags, not just the battle flag that everyone immediately things about.
Opponents say it's racist, obviously. What do you think?

------------------
Got mol problems? Call Avogadro: 1.800.6.022x10²³

nevermind, my bad.

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 08-18-2006).]

Florida was in the confederacy....
http://www.floridamemory.com/OnlineClassroom/FloridaCivilWar/index.cfm

S.Williams
Is the KKK getting one too? (JOKE ONLY)
------------------
1988 Fiero Formula T-tops
CJB 143 of 1252 "factory T-top cars"

[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 08-18-2006).]

I think it is cool and no, that doesn't make me any kind of racist. Everyone has a right to their heritage. Even those damn redneck Southerners. This just happens to be my heritage, except from one state north.

My mother urged me to join the SCV, so I did some research on the organization, its members, and affiliated groups..
The more I learned, the less I felt inclined to become a member.
Some are history buffs. Some like collecting artifacts, and some enjoy dressing up and playing war on weekends. Then there are a large number with a more sinister side.
There won't be one of those plates on MY car.
I'm sure these tags will, however, be very popular in certain parts of Florida.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 08-19-2006).]

Any group has that... That is just people. The local Senior Citizens Bingo Club has people with dark sides that I probably don't see eye to eye with. That don't mean I wouldn't go play bingo. Of course that is just an example since I am not a senior and don't play bingo.

It has nothing to do with the 'group' or the heritage. Yes, I am a son of a confederate veteran but not a member of SCV. Yes, I have done reenactment. Yes, I am a history buff. And yeah, I guess I may even have a dark side from time to time. I guess we all do. But it has nothing to do with the Civil War or any races.

Bottom line is don't get caught being guilty of what the 'dark-siders' are guilty of... Judging a whole group by a few, or just because they are different.

OK, submitted for your consideration.............

My paternal grandfather immigrated from Russia where his family were immigrants from Germany. My paternal grandmother's heritage is similar, but she was born in the US, her parents were immigrants. I learned to speak "low German" at my grandparent's knee when I was young as they spoke it at home (while insisting that their kids learn English and, in fact, my grandfather taught himself English with the help of an old, worn, Webster's dictionary). During WWII my grandparents and their parents went through a lot of prejudice and bigotry towards them when you remember they spoke German at home and had a heavy German accent.

Germany under Hitler was not known for doing nice things. Russia, my grandparent's adopted homeland, was not known for doing nice things under Stalin. Huge anti-German sentiment was prevalent even into the 60's in this country.

So, am I supposed to deny my German-Russian heritage? I'm I supposed to pretend that my ancestors weren't from that part of the world? Heck, I can remember the stories told of the Volga region of Russia and the purge.

My point is, our heritage in a large way make us what we are, even the bad things. We need not deny these things ever existed and by recognizing them it doesn't necessarily mean we hav to agree with everything that has been done to form that heritage.

The same is quite true of the southern confederacy. While slavery was an abomination, that was just one part of the civil war and, arguably, a great deal more than slavery was destroyed and lost in the war between the states. some of those other things that were lost are wll worth remembering.

John Stricker

The Civil War ended in 1865, 141 years ago.

Are there any sons of confederate veterans left alive?

I realize that I may be taking this a bit too literally, but c'mon......its time to move on.

Maybe Northerners should have "Underground Railroad" plates, perhaps??

Or "Sherman's March" plates?

[This message has been edited by cccharlie (edited 08-19-2006).]

<Simpsons Quote>
Immigration Officer - "Okay, what was the cause of the Civil War?"
Apu - "Well there were many factors, including abolitionists and anti-abolitionists-"
Immigration Officer - "Uh..just say 'Slavery.'"
Apu - "Slavery it is, Sir."
</Simpsons Quote>


jstricker made my point already, so I thought I'd add a quote.

Edit for spelling
------------------

[This message has been edited by Flamberge (edited 08-19-2006).]

We lived in Tennessee for 4 years in the 90’s. (went down after my plant closed in Mass. to work for Saturn)

It amazed me how the southern mentality was so,

“The south will rise again”

Lets face it boys, you lost.

Yet has anyone else ever noticed what compass direction every cannon in front of every court house in the south is still pointing?

North

I don’t want to start a flame war just stating a few facts.

I met a lot of good people down there, even made some real good friends. Some still had there whites in the attic, and were dam proud of it.

Hell we have lobsters on our plates here in Maine, let them have what they want on theirs.

Like John said not everything from the south was bad, and a lot of the good got destroyed during that war.

History is destined to repeat itself if we don’t remember it and learn from it.

------------------
technology is great when it works
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

Well, lets see:
A) I am actually the descendant of a Confederate veteran.
B) I actually live in Florida.
C) I actually did the research on the SCV, and have made an INFORMED choice.
You are, of course, free to do the same.


------------------
Kerry, who ran against Bush, was supported by homosexuals and nudists. But it was Bush who won [the elections], because he is Christian, right-wing, tenacious, and unyielding. In other words, the religious overcame the perverted. So we cannot blame all Americans and Westerners.
- Muslim Scholars leader Sheikh Yousuf Al-Qaradhawi

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 08-19-2006).]

Steve,

I've taken your quotations out of order below to illustrate a point. Like you, I'm not interested in a flame war. I did find some of the apparent flippancy of your comments offensive:

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: History is destined to repeat itself if we don’t remember it and learn from it.

quote Lets face it boys, you lost.

Sorry, "Boy," but "we" didn't lose. As someone else pointed out, that war ended 141 years ago, and I don't think any of us were around. Nor were you, and you have no right to puff your chest and claim "victory!" You are right about lessons from history, although it's perplexing to me that you should ignore historical lessons in favor of braggadocio.

Speaking of lessons from history, the outcome of the Civil War was largely driven by economics. Cotton and tobacco didn't make for great offensive weapons against steel products. The South hoped for foreign support which it did not receive in abundance. Today, the steel mills of the north suffer heavily from foreign competition, and the coin of the day is oil. There's a lot more oil production in the Gulf of Mexico than there is off of Teddy Kennedy's Massachusetts. Economies have changed. If our forefathers had their way, you would need a passport to get here. And lawd, can you think of what the tarrifs on the oil would be?

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Yet has anyone else ever noticed what compass direction every cannon in front of every court house in the south is still pointing? North

Care to document that "fact"?

Didn't think so.

Not that it's a bad idea, so long as the cannon remain functional. It's just not a fact. Besides, for most of us, the direction would be 'northeast.'

[rant]
[sarcasm]
Texas alone has 254 counties, thus 254 county courthouses. I'm sure from the authoritative tone of your pronouncement that you've already been to all of them, as well as every other county in the South, but you're still welcome to come down and take pictures. Please bring your money, as we have many fine hotels, some of which has got indoor plumbing and even running water in each room. And we're always so beholden to our fine, fine Northern masters, who conquered us so totally that the sons of their sons of their sons feel entitled to look down on us, and treat us poor, poor people as the subhumans we really are.
[/sarcasm]
[/rant]

I understood all of that from your post, Neptune... Except that you still sounded like you didn't want to join because they might want you to throw on a bedsheet. You're still judging a whole group of people by some bad apples. Or am I missing the reason your put INFORMED in capitals?

cccharlie... What is your family's heritage? I'm just wondering if you would want to be told to forget it. And to answer your question about sons of Confederate veterans left alive.. There very well could be. The last living widow of a Confederate veteran just died two years ago. Remember that a lot of kids fought in the war and then went home and lived to be very old. My great great grandfather lived to be 83 and died in 1903, and he was 46 when he enlisted. Younger guys would have been in their 50s at the turn of the century. So... What about WWI, WWII or any of the others. Should their offspring forget about it too? It is part of my family and my heritage. No, I won't forget the Confederacy, but again, that doesn't make me a racist or any kind of hater. No one should forget the Confederacy, or the Union army, or anything.. It is part of all of our history.

And 84Fiero123.. If you really want to state a few facts, let's not just post the northern slanted ones. 'Northerners' need to own up to a little bit of the blame for our southern pride. Too many carpetbagger attitudes still around. Still acting like Southerners are second rate citizens and using slavery as the excuse. It has just as little to do with it now as it did then but it sure does make the history books a neat little read.

Yeah, I've done my reading too and made myself very INFORMED. Too bad the history books are always written by the victors and rarely contain the truth...

But I doubt that all of this is what the original poster had in mind for this thread. This stuff has been talked to death on the forum. Yet it is always the Southerners saying the South will rise again that get called out. It is never the other side egging it on that gets called.

And in case anyone missed, the South did rise again. Not as a separate country but as an economic power in this country as it should be.

quote Originally posted by Songman: That's funny, Shyster, that you called him on the cannons! haha... Honestly though, I would say that a number of them would point north. . . .We didn't fight Cuba in the Civil War so why would they point south.

One does what one can.

Texas did fight Mexico, so south isn't that odd a direction, here. So far as I know, the Twin Sisters (which were buried to keep them from falling into the hands of the Mexicans) have never been recovered, so we're still somewhat cannon-poor from that era.

quote Originally posted by Songman: I understood all of that from your post, Neptune... Except that you still sounded like you didn't want to join because they might want you to throw on a bedsheet. You're still judging a whole group of people by some bad apples. Or am I missing the reason your put INFORMED in capitals?

Songman, please don't take my comments as an attack. If I came across that way, it was certainly not my intention.
I know a couple of SCV members who are also re enactors. They are great guys, hence my original interest in the group.
And as far as it goes, the STATED purpose of the SCV seems to be a good one. Preserving and honoring history and heritage. I proudly share that heritage.
The organization claims to be nonpolitical, but appears to be very (perhaps unoficially) political.
Anyway, after clicking through the links from the SCV website (and doing some other research) I came upon items such as the Walter Kennedy books, Southern Mercury magazine, The Free Republic, and links to other extreme right wing, and sometimes downright wacko reactionary groups and publications that made me feel uneasy and gave me pause to think:
Should we as a free people be seeking to return to a past that never really existed, or would the common good be better served by looking ahead to build a brighter future for all Americans?
I have chosen the latter.
And thats my opinion, because I was asked for it.
These results may not be typical, and your results may vary.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 08-19-2006).]

Well, the Harris county courthouse here in Houston has NO cannons....pointing anywhere..
S.Williams

------------------
1988 Fiero Formula T-tops
CJB 143 of 1252 "factory T-top cars"

quote Originally posted by Shyster: Care to document that "fact"? Didn't think so. Not that it's a bad idea, so long as the cannon remain functional. It's just not a fact. Besides, for most of us, the direction would be 'northeast.' [/sarcasm] [/rant]

Just a personal observation from trips to and from Tennessee north, I noticed it when passing court houses everywhere south of the Mason Dixon line.

quote Originally posted by Shyster: Texas alone has 254 counties, thus 254 county courthouses. I'm sure from the authoritative tone of your pronouncement that you've already been to all of them, as well as every other county in the South, but you're still welcome to come down and take pictures. Please bring your money, as we have many fine hotels, some of which has got indoor plumbing and even running water in each room. And we're always so beholden to our fine, fine Northern masters, who conquered us so totally that the sons of their sons of their sons feel entitled to look down on us, and treat us poor, poor people as the subhumans we really are. [/sarcasm] [/rant]

Here is a prime example of how you always feel that we put you down.

I never said you were sub human, or anything even close to that, I even said I met some fine people down in Tennessee. You my friend are the one who has a chip on his shoulder, not me.

When working on a new water line for the house we owned down their in the middle of August I commented to the local, who was and still is a good friend,(the one who still has his bed sheets as you call them, and by the way they are not “bed sheets” They are silk.)

I Said to Westly (SP) “How the hell do you work in this heat?”

He replied “ If you hadn’t taken away our slaves we wouldn’t have to work in this heat.”

“The south will rise again”

Sounds like there is a lot of hatred there.

quote Originally posted by Songman: And 84Fiero123.. If you really want to state a few facts, let's not just post the northern slanted ones. 'Northerners' need to own up to a little bit of the blame for our southern pride. Too many carpetbagger attitudes still around. Still acting like Southerners are second rate citizens and using slavery as the excuse. It has just as little to do with it now as it did then but it sure does make the history books a neat little read.

In no way did I ever rate any one as a second class citizen, ever.

If a man or woman works hard and does what is needed to me they are just as good as me in any respect.

I will and have worked right along side, “Black, White, Red, Yellow, Northerner, Southerner, and every other color in the rainbow.

I have nothing but respect for anyone who tows the line and does a hard day work. Northern, Southerner, Black, White, Red, Yellow, Hell I have even worked with some men just after 9/11. Of Arabian extraction. With no animosity, or prejudice.

I on the other hand was always looked down on when I lived in the South.

People would always treat me like a second class citizen. I wasn’t able to fit in because of my accent. I was the person that they felt was imposing on them. Even tho I never tried to make them feel that way.

If I made anyone feel I was putting them down in this post, I am truly sorry, it was not meant that way.

quote Originally posted by Songman: That's funny, Shyster, that you called him on the cannons! haha... Honestly though, I would say that a number of them would point north. But I wonder which way he would have them point? We didn't fight Cuba in the Civil War so why would they point south. Apparently it is a bad thing to have memorials to your past. Apparently he has never been to Gettysburg, Antietam, even Arlington... Yeah, but I guess only the winners get to have memorials. If the other side does it, it is because they are still trying to fight the war...

Yes I have been to Gettysburg, Thought it was one of the biggest wastes of human potential in the history of this country. For all those men to have died for so little was a great tragedy for both sides.

Brother against brother was just plain STUPID !

If they want a license plate with the rebel flag on it let them have, that I agree with.

Hell Westly said He wanted to get me one when I lived down there, only he wanted it to have the rebel flag on one side and the regular flag on the other.
We are one country now and hopefully always will be, lets work together to keep it that way.

Sorry if I offended anyone, really. Just was stating my observations while living in Tennessee.

------------------
technology is great when it works
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

Honestly, fighting the Civil War again is not on my list of things to do. I have no issue with the heritage of anyone and quite frankly find it kind of silly that anyone wants to argue over something that happened a century and a half ago. My priority is to win the current battle not one settled long ago.

------------------
Ron
Freedom isn't Free, it's paid for with the blood and dreams of those that have gone before us.
My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Well, there is that money issue.

Contrary to popular belief, most of those who fought in the Civil War had no slaves. They were fighting for home and family. This can be seen in the short list of the slave schedules compared to the Census. The wealthy plantation owners generally hired someone to fight in their place.
As far as who won or lost, all you have to do is look at the casualty figures for the major battles to see that there were no winners. Many battles had the stated winner lose more than the stated loser. The numbers were astronomical on both sides.
Nation wide there was almost no family that didn't have casualties from the war, from either battle or disease. It was not a pretty chapter in our history as a nation. Total casualties exceed the total from all other wars we have ever fought.

The Klan it's self was initially organised as a militia to fight roving bands of criminals after the war who were a product of the war and from the North and South. It only later became the racist evil that it's associated with now. The Confederate Battle Flag does not belong to them. I might point out that the nuts that are in the Klan now use the Stars and Stripes, Should it be banded also? They also use the cross, should that be outlawed?

The "Sons of Confederate Veterans" have done a lot to preserve the history of the war and that aspect is a good thing.
Surely something we don't need to revisit in reality. Here in Alabama you usually see "The south will rise again " associated with Yosemite Sam, and quite tongue in cheek. My Southern heritage, I consider something to be proud of.
Most southerners were true pioneers, farmers, millers, blacksmiths wheel wrights and such moving into new land and forging what this country is today. Most were not wealthy enough to own slaves, they depended on large families, eight ,ten, twelve or more children were common.

I have quit a few ancestors who fought for the South and have a good bit of there service information. Some found and documented by SCV. "old letters and such." The only known photo of my GGGrand father Lewis L. Shaw was found by a SCV member, John M. Burton and published in his book. Gracie's Alabama Volunteers (59th Alabama)
But I feel little need to join that or any other organization. I'm pretty much with Neptune on that issue.
As for as the tag or the flag goes, I see no problem personally with it, but I also realise many do. Overall I consider it a non-issue and not worthy of someones life cause one way or the other.

I know Alabama Georgia and Tennessee already have an SVC Tag probably others.

[This message has been edited by Wolfhound (edited 08-19-2006).]

quote Originally posted by cccharlie: The Civil War ended in 1865, 141 years ago. Are there any sons of confederate veterans left alive? I realize that I may be taking this a bit too literally, but c'mon......its time to move on. Maybe Northerners should have "Underground Railroad" plates, perhaps?? Or "Sherman's March" plates?

Ohio does have Underground Railroad plates

You have to pay extra for them though.

[This message has been edited by tutnkmn (edited 08-19-2006).]

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Songman, please don't take my comments as an attack. If I came across that way, it was certainly not my intention. I know a couple of SCV members who are also re enactors. They are great guys, hence my original interest in the group. And as far as it goes, the STATED purpose of the SCV seems to be a good one. Preserving and honoring history and heritage. I proudly share that heritage. The organization claims to be nonpolitical, but appears to be very (perhaps unoficially) political. Anyway, after clicking through the links from the SCV website (and doing some other research) I came upon items such as the Walter Kennedy books, Southern Mercury magazine, The Free Republic, and links to other extreme right wing, and sometimes downright wacko reactionary groups and publications that made me feel uneasy and gave me pause to think: Should we as a free people be seeking to return to a past that never really existed, or would the common good be better served by looking ahead to build a brighter future for all Americans? I have chosen the latter. And thats my opinion, because I was asked for it. These results may not be typical, and your results may vary.

Thanks for the clarification. And I will close with two comments...

About the site links... I am not a member of SCV and haven't looked at their site in a long while, I do make at least part of my living on the web. I know that getting people to a site is how the site thrives and an organization builds. From all of the people who I have met in my years as an amatuer Civil War historian, I can tell you that MOST are interested in finding their culture and showing respect for a heritage that is being erased. Web site links do not always reflect the beliefs of the site owner. Sometimes it is just a link to get traffic. I don't know this to be the case at SCV since I have not checked into it, but just a thought.

quote Should we as a free people be seeking to return to a past that never really existed, or would the common good be better served by looking ahead to build a brighter future for all Americans?

This is the only statement that I don't agree with.... Let me assure you... that past did exist. I have too much family history documented for it not to have existed. And yes, bright future for all Americans is a great goal.. But forgetting the past is the biggest mistake that men can make. As far as I can tell, no one wants to return to the past. We just want to be able to remember it and celebrate it as every other culture in this country is allowed to do. I won't go through all of the examples of how other cultures and races nationally recognize their heritage, even if it is not of this country, but when that is tried for the Confederacy it is shot down. We all know them all too well.

Again.. Thanks for your clarification.

quote Originally posted by Shyster: Driven by Economics

True. In the end money and power are behind most conflicts. However, slavery, as an industry, was a MASSIVE economic factor for the south. So, in a sense, it was about slavery afterall.

quote Originally posted by cccharlie: The Civil War ended in 1865, 141 years ago.

Good point.
Maybe we should get rid of all remembrances of times, places, and people from history. It was, afterall, in the past.

As long as no African-American ever plays the race card again or mentions slavery as a means to generate sympathy or support for their cause, then it might be ok to forget the Civil War. If you're going to "get over" part of it, get over ALL of it.

Personally, I think it needs to be remembered. For one thing, a lot of people are only remembering slavery. There was more to the South than plantations and cotton fields, but to hear some of you there were nothing but slaves and slave owners. Remember all of the history, not just the bad parts. Remember the bad so you don't repeat the mistakes of the past, and remember the good so you don't forget the good things about your past.

I am reminded of something Shelby Foote said one time on the Ken Burns series, The Civil War.

"We still fight the Civil War today. Only with words and not guns."

May be true. Anytime you bring up the Civil War feelings on both sides still run hot.

You're right, they do. And there are extremists on both sides of the issue. It would be nice if you could remember your Southern heritage without being called a racist or likened to the KKK. Not all Christians are Branch Davidians. Not all Muslims are terrorists. Not all Italians are mobsters. And not all Southerners are Klansmen.

If a person is black, is it wrong to immediately assume they are an ignorant, sub-human criminal? Of course it is.
Yet, so many people will look at a Southerner and immediately assume they are a brain dead redneck Klansman.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Yet, so many people will look at a Southerner and immediately assume they are a brain dead redneck Klansman.

And I am NOT a Klansman! haha

I like it, really like it........LOL, it would be cause for arrest up here in loonie-land, but its damn well time somebody started standing up to the non-offensive politically-correct types. If its your heritage, be proud of it--and the hell with anybody that gets offended by that

quote Originally posted by Songman: I.

Good post, but no one ever listens, The civil war was about states rights, the end. One can go on and on about moral crapola but that aint it! federalism vs. state freedom that's the ticket.
Something to remember is that like most government actions most of the people were not behind the war in the north but the government did it anyways. In fact if you care to do some digging you will find that the revolutionary war did not have wide support at the time either.

I find nothing offensive about the plate. People that start crying about the confederate flag only show their ignorance.

History is written by the winners.

David B a northerner.

quote Originally posted by Songman: cccharlie... What is your family's heritage? I'm just wondering if you would want to be told to forget it. And to answer your question about sons of Confederate veterans left alive..

My grandparents (three out of four, anyway) were from Canada. They spoke French. I don't speak French, because I am an American. And I don't have a Canadian or French Flag displayed on my car, house, or anywhere else.

If a confederate soldier were 18 in 1865 at the end of the Civil War, and he had a son at 60 years old in the year 1907, that son would now be 99 years old. So it may be possible that there are sons of Confederate veterans alive, but its a stretch.

[This message has been edited by cccharlie (edited 08-19-2006).]

quote Originally posted by cccharlie: If a confederate soldier were 18 in 1865 at the end of the Civil War, and he had a son at 60 years old in the year 1907, that son would now be 99 years old. So it may be possible that there are sons of Confederate veterans alive, but its a stretch.

So, we should limit history to 1 generation?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: So, we should limit history to 1 generation?

I didn't say that.
I didn't imply that.

I don't have a problem with people painting confederate flags etc. on their cars. Thats free speech.
I have a problem with them looking for government approval / sponsorship.

Should we also have religions and sexual orientations on license plates?
Should Japanese internment camp survivors get a license plate?

The group is called "Sons of Confederate Veterans." I didn't name them.

[This message has been edited by cccharlie (edited 08-19-2006).]

quote Originally posted by cccharlie: I didn't say that. I didn't imply that. I don't have a problem with people painting confederate flags etc. on their cars. Thats free speech. I have a problem with them looking for government approval / sponsorship. Should we also have religions and sexual orientations on license plates? Should Japanese internment camp survivors get a license plate? The group is called "Sons of Confederate Veterans." I didn't name them.

In MD any group can get a plate made if there is enough demand for it and more importantly PAY for it. This issue of issueing the plate isn't about racism or heritage its about cash money. The states only see it as extra income.

quote Originally posted by cccharlie: I didn't say that. I didn't imply that. I don't have a problem with people painting confederate flags etc. on their cars. Thats free speech. I have a problem with them looking for government approval / sponsorship. Should we also have religions and sexual orientations on license plates? Should Japanese internment camp survivors get a license plate? The group is called "Sons of Confederate Veterans." I didn't name them.

Do you know the government doesn't sponsor personalized plates? You are charged a fee to pay for the plate. The government actually makes money off them.

Do you know that there are these things call "grandsons?" Sometimes even they have sons of their own. And *gasp* sometimes it goes on for more than 2 generations.

If you were actually interested you could have checked out their website, where you would have found this bit of information:
"Membership in the Sons of Confederate Veterans is open to all male descendents of any veteran who served honorably in the Confederate armed forces."
http://www.scv.org/

But I guess that might not be as easy to dismiss or make fun of.

quote Originally posted by cccharlie: My grandparents (three out of four, anyway) were from Canada. They spoke French. I don't speak French, because I am an American. And I don't have a Canadian or French Flag displayed on my car, house, or anywhere else. If a confederate soldier were 18 in 1865 at the end of the Civil War, and he had a son at 60 years old in the year 1907, that son would now be 99 years old. So it may be possible that there are sons of Confederate veterans alive, but its a stretch.

Hey, I'm IN canda and I dont speak french--and I dont allow french in my house. Simply because there aint no damn government or freaken law going to tell ME what language I can and cant speak. Its about telling the feds go to hell, which is exactly what the US civil war was about.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Do you know that there are these things call "grandsons?" Sometimes even they have sons of their own. And *gasp* sometimes it goes on for more than 2 generations.

quote Originally posted by cccharlie: I realize that I may be taking this a bit too literally, but c'mon......its time to move on.

I stand by everything I said.

A license plate is a symbol of government sponsorship / approval. Otherwise, they wouldn't be pursuing it. They could just print t shirts or bumper stickers.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: My mother urged me to join the SCV, so I did some research on the organization, its members, and affiliated groups.. The more I learned, the less I felt inclined to become a member. Some are history buffs. Some like collecting artifacts, and some enjoy dressing up and playing war on weekends. Then there are a large number with a more sinister side. There won't be one of those plates on MY car. I'm sure these tags will, however, be very popular in certain parts of Florida.

[This message has been edited by cccharlie (edited 08-19-2006).]

quote Originally posted by cccharlie: I stand by everything I said. A license plate is a symbol of government sponsorship / approval. Otherwise, they wouldn't be pursuing it. They could just print t shirts or bumper stickers.

BUt its not sponcership. If some old retired guys wanted "Sons of the North" the state would print 'em up. Prolife and prochioce can both get plates so what side is the state taking? The state is neutral in this. In MD you can get a Penn. State Aumni plate is MD spouncering Penn. State?

quote Originally posted by Phranc: BUt its not sponcership. If some old retired guys wanted "Sons of the North" the state would print 'em up. Prolife and prochioce can both get plates so what side is the state taking? The state is neutral in this. In MD you can get a Penn. State Aumni plate is MD spouncering Penn. State?

We're not talking about MD. In FL, it requires the support of the legislature and the governor:

quote From original article: Once the group shows necessary support, the state legislature takes up the issue. If it passes, the governor would have to sign the bill allowing it to become one of Florida's symbols to the world.

[This message has been edited by cccharlie (edited 08-19-2006).]

quote Originally posted by cccharlie: We're not talking about MD. In FL, it requires the support of the legislature and the governor:

Damn I missed that part.

Still if an opposing side was allowed to get plates would that be ok? If so would it still be ok for the cofederates to keep thiers? Or would you allow the opposition and only discriminate against the confederates? Or should the state allow no special plates?