Oh, No Bil, Don't expose "Peanut Butter Gate" and the thousands of malnurished children because of lack of "Skippy" Oh, the horror of the great peanut butter famine.
The nerve of Carter trying to blame that on the drought.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Good. We are making progress. War is regrettable but some ties necessary. And in some cases it can be a good thing at the same time as a regrettable thing.

Some ties necessary? I don't know what progress you are talking about but uhh.. ok.. You agree that war is an option of last resort to preserve the freedom of this country. However, you still have not addressed the restrictions of freedom and the disregard of privacy (violation of rights) of US citizens since your highly touted, "noble" war has begun. If the idea of war is for freedom I have not yet realized it, if anything I've realized the opposite. How do you explain all this?

quote Let's move on to the next thought experiment... The Revolutionary war was not unanimous either.

Yes it was.

quote Surely you have heard of the vast numbers of "Loyalists" and "Federalists"? In fact, American revolutionaries used a subtle trick at dinner parties to identify themsleves by picking up their fork with their left hand and transfering it to their right hand to eat. The British adheared religiously to the dogma of good table manners by eating with the left. This mannerism has become a commonplace event for Americans today and many Americans don't even know why they do it.

This has nothing at all to do with the fact that the continental congress voted unanimously for independence from the crown.

quote I digress. War is NEVER unanimous. WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Spanish American, etc. ALL had their detractors. Some were arguablly necessary but if we waited for a unanimous vote, we'd be speaking some other language today.

No need to digress.

The subject is about congress voting unanimously FOR war. Not how the people voted. The people voted for their representitives and their representitives voted accordingly. IE not all the peoples representitives voted for war so the votes since have not been unanimous.

quote I do not know who the "king" is and what profits he has supposedly reaped but the fact is that this war has protected Amercian lives from another 9/11 and has planted the seed of democracy in a tyrannical part of the world where it WILL take off and spread, hence bringing long term peace to the region and the entire world. If it makes sense to fight to CREATE America why aren't you willing to fight to PRESERVE it?

1. Create America? Uhhhh... Do you mean the "United States" of America?
2. Protect American lives? .... Uhhh with 2500 dead citizens strewn about I'd hardly call it "protection" more like an abomination or LIE.
3. Democracy ??? Uhhh... are you a farking idiot? Democaracy is the most vile form of government ever concieved. This country is a "CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC"

No, it doesn't make sense to "fight" because even though you make all these crazy half brained assertions I have absolutly NO CLUE what you are fighting for. To me it's senseless.

quote I love Freedom of speech, it allows me to tell little tyrannts to shut up.

Uhhhh.. No it doesn't. You can say anything you want but you are not permitted to mute me. You can refute, cry, stomp your feet, pound your fist but never... never mute me. To do so would make you a TYRANT of freedom.

quote I see, is that the fuel that we went to war over? Yep, that sure worked out well didn't it. Go to war for oil and see prices go up by 150%. Hmm a little logic error there Bill. The patriot act is streamlining legal investigations and has not deprived one American of due process. Name one of 300 million of us...if you can. If Saddam and Osama etc are "Boagymen" then good, be afraid, be very afraid. Or you can be like Ellis in "Die Hard" and walk into the terrorists faces and say "Hey, Sprechenzi Talk?" BANG! Ooops, bad idea. The bad guys REALLY were bad. Whoda thought? Oh yeah that's right, I did.

The reason we went to war was NOT to make fuel cheaper.. it was to get control of it and to make it more expensive. To increase profits. If the oil companies claimed billions in proffits can you imagine what those profits would be if you didn't include the writeoffs?

Saddam was not a threat to my freedom, OBL is not a threat to my freedom. Manuel Norriaga was not a threat to my freedom.
The patriot act IS a threat to my freedom.

quote So the Revolutionary war was a clean sweep?? No negatives? How about the thousands of lost lives? American AND British. How about the economic upheaval? How about the fact that we now have a nation of people (mostly young) who take their rights for granted and feel no responsibility to the preservation of them?

Uhh nope. No negatives at all. The brits were the enemy.. ****em! The heros that died for me.. I give my thanks.. my everlasing gratitude. I Will remember them all this July 4th and raise a toast to them and their bravery.

quote IRAQ and Afghanistan? No Positives? how many times do you need to hear about the fact that Osama Bin Laden was behind the 9/11 attacks? I mean you DO know that....right? Now he is on the run and incapable of launching a similar attack which he has VOWED to do again if capable. No benefit...at all? I can think of hundreds of benefits but I'll be satisfied if you can acknowledge just one.

Nope, no benefit to me at all. What do I care about missiles? I have thousands! Bring it on BIOTCH!

quote You're strange Bill. You think Bush is a profiteer, you think Cheney really runs the government because the President of the United States has an IQ of a potato (as if any man could rise to that position in government and not be smarter than average), you think the war in Afghanistan and Iraq is about oil even though prices have gone up not down, you think it is NOT about national security even though we were victims of a MAJOR attack every year from 1993 to 2001 and when we took the fight to them the attacks stopped, etc.

Heheh.. Thanks.
No I don't believe the war in afghanistan was about oil. It was about preserving the multitude of oil pipelines running through it and a stepping stone to waging war in other countries in the ME. Thats what the invasion of Afghanistan was all about.

quote You REALLY believe this stuff?

dddidd I stt stuuu stttutter?

quote You spend too much time reading comic books.

And you spend too much time with you head up your ass.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: No Todd.. Actually I don't believe any of it. I know it as fact.

You mean that's all I have to do? Declare that what I know/believe is FACT, and I'd win an argument? Wow, I had no idea it was that simple.

If my goal was to argue then I suppose that logic would apply. However, that is not the case. What I am doing is voicing an opinion, that opinion being subject to interpritation does not make the facts as I see them right or wrong. Thats up to you to decide yourself. IF you want to waste your time arguing how my fact or opinions are "wrong" then feel free but I'm not going to just give up and "say you are right" just because you feel you that you are.

Again, my objective is not to argue or "win" an argument. The validity of the facts as I see them are just that.. Thats how I see them. Thats how I feel. If you don't that's fine with me. I mean what the **** I don't care if you don't agree. You can disagree till the cows come home (which is what you do quite often) I don't care in the least.... Lets dance the night away. If you don't like what I have to say then bugger off, remain silent but don't refute what I say by making some wild observations about me personally, question my abilities or question why I have the opinions that I do. I just DO. What? That's not good enough for you? Well tough noogies! Don't bring "me" into it next time.

To me it's a waste of your time to constanly question how I feel then pass a judgement on how I feel the way I do. But hey.. I can help you waste your time. If you want to know WHYI feel XXX way.. then I will tell you but again don't ask me to explain myself then turn around and call me a "nut job" or question my character. It then becomes an argument about my character and that WILL be an argument I will win.

You got what you wanted then say I'm crazy for giving you what you asked for? Heh.. silly people.

Stick to the topic 84Bill brings up and leave the man 84Bill out of it. I'm not arguing to win because I'm not looking to win the argument. Just voicing my opinion and not weather or not you feel it's wrong. IF you do feel it is wrong then STATE WHY your opinion is better than mine and lets debate it... all day.. till the sun comes up. I don't care! Apparently many of you do because you simply must WIN at any cost. Sore loosers!
The other day Formula88 said, "The carzier this world becomes, the more Bill makes sense."

That was a slam against me but it was a very big compliment. Call me anything you want but don't call me late for dinner. Formula88 served up my favorite dish.. I owe him one.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: You mean that's all I have to do? Declare that what I know/believe is FACT, and I'd win an argument? Wow, I had no idea it was that simple.