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More WMD Found in Iraq by Toddster
Started on: 06-22-2006 03:08 PM
Replies: 205
Last post by: 84Bill on 06-30-2006 11:24 AM
Toddster
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Report this Post06-22-2006 07:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ToddsterClick Here to Email ToddsterSend a Private Message to ToddsterDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierogtowner:

Sure, it can be done but does Iraq have the Nuclear capability to make a nuke?


Another good questions. The answer is no. They definitely did not have the ability to produce a nuke. But they were definitley trying to get there.

Start with the UNSCOM report:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd/Iraq_Oct_2002.htm

THIS is why we went to war.
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Report this Post06-22-2006 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FirefighterClick Here to Email FirefighterSend a Private Message to FirefighterDirect Link to This Post
God Todd, give it a break. The Republicans are running for cover or going to jail. The Pentagon handed out answer booklets (fact) to all Republicans on how to answer (ho, ho) or sidestep questions this past week during the discussions on Iraq.
I believe that you are still a young man, why don't you sign up and go find those WMDs or NOT.
I certainly support our troops, they are stuck in Iraq, but the war was a giant mistake.
Ed (1st Lieutenant USAR, ret.)
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Report this Post06-22-2006 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for connecticutFIEROSend a Private Message to connecticutFIERODirect Link to This Post
I suggest you two give it up already. This is an argument that even your own president wouldn't support. But good luck. You can fool some of the people some of the time and all that right?
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Report this Post06-22-2006 07:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WolfhoundClick Here to visit Wolfhound's HomePageClick Here to Email WolfhoundSend a Private Message to WolfhoundDirect Link to This Post
It,s been funny today watching republicans dodge questions about that fake report.
Someone whos has watched fox news for ten years probably missed that.
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fierogtowner
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Report this Post06-22-2006 08:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogtownerSend a Private Message to fierogtownerDirect Link to This Post
I think I'll retire from this thread. It's been fun everyone.
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under8ted
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Report this Post06-22-2006 08:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for under8tedClick Here to Email under8tedSend a Private Message to under8tedDirect Link to This Post
AHHHHHHH...........my freaking heart bleeds.

Iraq has/had WMD...........DOESNT IT FREAKING OCCUR TO YOU..........that SOMEBODY better have goddamn WMD's and long-range attack capabilities---just to keep amerika in check ???

guerss what--you might think you are the cats ass and your **** dont stink, and about 4 billion would respect if you kept it inside your own borders,,,,,,,,,,,,,

But if americans think they can walk onto any propery on the planet and be in charge---then they got another thought comming.

I have friends in the US, and in some ways support them-----------------

BUT---if any yankee troop ever lays foot on this freaken canadian farm, you WILL be facing bullets, NO IF"S BUTS OR MAYBEES about it. You might get me in the end, but I will sure as **** take a lot of you with me.

Now, if I feel that way about about my farm, just imagine what what Iraqi farmers are feeling about the issue.

I'm not even going to MENTION sadamms history as as CIA/Amerrican puppet.

and I'll try not to mention the fact that depleated uranim is toxic for 4.5 BILLION years.


In fack, know what I think--seriously---for all the propaganda, and all the bullshit about it--there is only ONE--YES, ONE-- country in the history of this planet that has lossed nuclear weapons in anger. Not once, not twice, but 3 times now has america used nuclear techology as a weapon.

The old USSR never did--they threatened, they aimed--but they never did. Unlike america..

**** ya's is all I can say. 4.5 ****ing BILLION years and the radioactivity of the bush family's war will will still be floating around this planet.

If americans were what americans say they are, the would have strun the buchs up from the nearest tree.

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Report this Post06-22-2006 09:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GT86Click Here to Email GT86Send a Private Message to GT86Direct Link to This Post
Every time I see this debate flare up, I have to wonder if we have our priorities right. The question of WMD in Iraq, whether it was there or not, whether the administration lied or not, whether our intelligence systems were faulty or not---these are valid questions, and important ones that do need to be addressed. But it shouldn't be our primary concern at this point, IMHO.

The fact remains, the invasion happened, there's no turning back the clock. It seems to me more attention should be focoused on what we do now. We've had thousands of soldiers killed, and thousands more are in jeopardy. I've always felt if we are going to commit soldiers to a conflict, we need to give them a clear cut objective, the means and resources to do their job quickly and efficiently, and get them home. The original objective...well, that boat has already sailed. What is the objective now? Stamping out an insurgency? Awfully hard to do, given the fanaticism of the enemy. As far as resources go, we obviously commited enough to overthrow Saddam's government, but have we given the military what it needs to do what it's now being asked to do?

The biggest issue to me is exit strategy. It never seemed clear from the beginning, and has become more murky with time. Do we withdraw completely, and allow Iraq to descend into civil war? Do we withdraw slowly, and place the troops remaining at more risk? Do we increase our presence there and run the risk of another Vietnam style involvement? To me, these are far more important questions, more important than why we invaded in the first place.


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Report this Post06-22-2006 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87FieroGTxClick Here to visit 87FieroGTx's HomePageClick Here to Email 87FieroGTxSend a Private Message to 87FieroGTxDirect Link to This Post
I can make most of these "WMD" with the cleaning supplies under my sink..No Joke!

At this point I'm MUCH more worried about Bio-Tech Weapons. Something as simple as a Marburg variant mixed with a common Flu strain could wipe out hundreds of millions if the infected person travled via plane - no one would know until it was too late
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Report this Post06-22-2006 10:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84BillClick Here to visit 84Bill's HomePageSend a Private Message to 84BillDirect Link to This Post
Yeah sure todd. 400 billion, 17,000 mamed, killed or wounded. Bahhh, all that for a few cans of sarin and a few pieces of yellow cake. So whats the ancore?
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JRM-2M6
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Report this Post06-23-2006 02:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JRM-2M6Click Here to visit JRM-2M6's HomePageSend a Private Message to JRM-2M6Direct Link to This Post
Demokratz : where are the weapons eh!
Republican : we found them
Demokratz : those arn't wmd
Republican : yes they are and we found them
Demokratz : who are you gonna believe , us or your lying eyes....

Some people can't handle reality . when it doesn't fit their desired outcome.
it is funny however, that the demokratz see this "small " bit of actual intelligence and assume that it's the whole ice burg when it is merely the tip...

the amount of information that will be declassified after we leave iraq will be embarassing to the Demokratic party. they can't even get more than 14 of their own members to vote "yea" to withdraw our troops for fear of that level of embarassment... it's not because they want our troops to be safely at home. it's because they do not want to have to deal with the fact that we found wmd, terrorist , and al queada connections. Also , the fact that we may have to deal militarily with iran or north korea. many in both parties worry about any classified information reguarding iraq's wmd's and links back to russia,france,china and the UN since we would more than likly seak their participation in disarmming yet another member of the access of evil.

[This message has been edited by JRM-2M6 (edited 06-23-2006).]

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84Bill
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Report this Post06-23-2006 08:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84BillClick Here to visit 84Bill's HomePageSend a Private Message to 84BillDirect Link to This Post
"Reality" is subject to each individuals perceptions so I disagree that yours is the only one everyone must subscribe to. Most people are rational enough to be able to weigh the positives vs the negatives and make their own determinations as to whats best. I also disagree that all people who disagree with whats happening are democrats and all those in favor are republicans, It's simply not an accurate statement.

If "we the people" are not given full and accurate information then how can they make a proper determination? If the USG doesn't want the people to "know" whats going on then the people are left with one of two choices. 1. there IS no real information. 2. believe everything the USG says which is a very dangerous idea. Fact is most people really don't care about this whole pile of BS anymore because Iraq was not the "empire of evil" it was so touted to be, it's costing billions upon billions, sons and daughters are being killed maimed and injured daily. Lastly what is the ROI? What benefits do we get for all this sacrefice? How are our lives going to be so much better? A rational person will always weight the benefits vs costs and most americans agree that the margine of benefit vs the cost is slim to none.

Most people agree that we gave Iraq freedom and it's now up to them to keep and defend it.. it's time for them to stand up for what they believe in but it's becoming more and more apparent the majority of Iraqis are not willing to do so. Freedom has a price, if Iraq isn't willing to pay for it then why should we pay for it for them? They are like wefare recipients fully capable of fighting and defending their own freedom but instead sit around holding their hands out for the monthlys.

So ok lets look at it form your perspective. You got your "massive" stock piles of WMD, you removed Saddam from power, you gave Iraqis freedom, you broke the back of al-quieda in Iraq and Iraq is no longer considered an "axis of evil" so... like why do we need to be there? What? Afraid there will be a civil war and they will decide for themselves what form of government they want? No doubt our government doesn't want that to happen because the government that emerges won't be one the USG can control. And thats the problem.. our government wants to control Iraq. You may feel that is not a problem but it's a very costly venture in that there will always be an Iraqi who doesn't want to be controled. There will always be rebellion. Hell we have that here in this country!

This is the tip of the iceberg I see.
The more we make "war" on other nations <insert the governments reason here> the more enemies we make as a nation and as a consiquence the more likely we are going to suffer for it. It's like a dog chasing it's own tail.
The more we sit here and bicker about who is right and who is wrong the more our government will tromp all over the planet and bleed america of its money and people while we (the people) sink deeper into a morass of politial bullshit, war and are ultimatly are going to end up paying dearly for it.

Myself. I don't care about anyone but my own life. You can call me selfish but as far as I know this is the only life I've been given. When someone disregards my life as expendable or makes it more dificult for me to live it then I'm going to have an issue with that person or persons. Life is tough enough without some jackbag entering into it and telling me what I must do and making it more dificult for me in any way shape or form.

I've known nothing but war my entire life. I was born during the Korean war, I remember the vietnam war, I saw the "end" of the cold war, remeber seeing the war in cosovo, I remember the very well intended war against the war lords in mogadisu, saw the rise of the war on drugs, I joined the military at 20 and left it just before the first gulf war, I DO remeber when the war on terror started, I agreed initially with the Iraq war but now am questioning what the benefits of this war. Now there is talk of war with Iran and the potential for war with N. Korea.... :::sigh::: All my life I've been expose to WAR and I really beginning to question this "war like" country of ours and our propensity to go to war with anyone or anything at any time. Ya know, I just want to live out the remainder of my days in peace... is that too much to ask, is that an unreasonable request, does the goal of peace mean I have to forever be at war and never know what it feels like to be at peace? Anyone ever stop long enough to take notice how we always "talk" about how how we are a "peaceful" nation yet are constantly at war with something or someone somewhere be it in this country or somewhere else in the world? I mean WTF is REALLY going on here? I'll tell you.. WAR! Republicans vs Democrats, Left vs Right, Up vs Down, In vs Out, Good guys vs Bad guys blahh blah vs blahh blah. I don't want anything to do with war yet I'm pigon holed into it every god damn day of my life and I'm really growing weary of it.

For christ sakes is there any place on this god forsaken planet where I can live out the rest of my days in peace?? I'd skip this crappy thread if it didn't involve me but unfortunatly I don't have a choice in the matter. Particularly when someone wants me to believe that this WAR in Iraq was somehow beneficial to me because <insert reason here> when I've said time an again it was not!


:::climbs off soap box and kicks it across the floor out of frustration:::

WHAT THE **** PEOPLE!?!?!?!?


 
quote
Originally posted by JRM-2M6:
Some people can't handle reality . when it doesn't fit their desired outcome.
it is funny however, that the demokratz see this "small " bit of actual intelligence and assume that it's the whole ice burg when it is merely the tip...


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Report this Post06-23-2006 08:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for NEPTUNESend a Private Message to NEPTUNEDirect Link to This Post
From yesterdays Chicagao Tribune--(Thats a real newspaper, Toddster):

[QUOTE] The White House and the intelligence community have conceded that despite prewar assertions to the contrary, no weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq.
[Senator Rick R- PA] Santorum, in making his announcment Wedensday, was apparently referring to shells from before the Persian Gulf war whose chemical agents, sarin and mustard gas, were badly degraded. [QUOTE]

From CNN, 6/22/06:
[QUOTE] Democrats downplayed the intelligence report, saying that a lengthy 2005 report from the top U.S. weapons inspector contemplated that such munitions would be found. A defense official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the weapons were not considered likely to be dangerous because of their age. [QUOTE]

Gotta call you on again.
Apparently, you were Neo - CONNED.
Again.

More on Sen Rick Santorum, and his political opponent Bob Casey from "The National Conservative Weekly" here: http://www.bobcasey.com/news/article/view/?id=50

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 06-23-2006).]

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Report this Post06-23-2006 09:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROPHREKSend a Private Message to FIEROPHREKDirect Link to This Post
So what happens when a ship shows up 50 miles of the coast of New York city with a scud missle carring a nuclear warhead, or any city along our coast for that matter? So he doesn't have a means to launch it by land and hit us, The Earth's surface is 75% water and anyone can go playing around in it. We have a 12 mile sheild but Scud missles have a range of over 300 miles ( more probably) . Everyone tries to downplay the seriousness of this phsyco developing, or even harboring individuals that want to develop, nuclear weapons. Why ? The threat is real . Some people here just have the ostrich syndrom. . . If I bury my head in the sand it'll go away. . . . good luck with that. I wonder if they make 8gillion SPF sunblock cause i might need it, i here nuclear blasts are toasty

------------------
HARDCORE SBC CRONIE AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

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Report this Post06-23-2006 09:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogtownerSend a Private Message to fierogtownerDirect Link to This Post
But I can see where Toddster has morals and ethics. See, if we pass Iraq as a safe haven for Terrorists even despite the lies and misinformation about Bush's real reason for entering Iraq, then we might never rest assured. However, we have Iran and N. Korea that really have corrupted intentions for their Nuclear program. So, can Iraq develope a nuclear warhead or very intense letal chemical warhead? I don't think so. I think we already have sleeper cells in the US.
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Report this Post06-23-2006 10:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JRM-2M6Click Here to visit JRM-2M6's HomePageSend a Private Message to JRM-2M6Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:

"Reality" is subject to each individuals perceptions


No , thats called an opinion.
reality is based on real factors , not someones perception (opinion) of them.
you may think (opinion) someone is stupid (perception) while in fact (reality) they are a genius

[This message has been edited by JRM-2M6 (edited 06-23-2006).]

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84Bill
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Report this Post06-23-2006 11:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84BillClick Here to visit 84Bill's HomePageSend a Private Message to 84BillDirect Link to This Post
There's nothing at all wrong with being prepared for any eventuality. For example, I know most guys carry knives. Knowing simple fact that knives have the potential to kill why in the world would I have the desire to provoke him? It doesn't require rocket science to figure out that if I step up in his face and tell him to hand over the knife when he will more likely use it to defend himself against people (like me) who don't want him having a deadly weapon no matter WHO is right or wrong. Particularly when I myself have a deadly weapon and will only use it to "defend" myself. Again it's called walking softly and carrying a BIG stick as opposed to stomping all over the place threatinging everyone in my path and using that stick. It used to be called "mutual respect" (I respect you and you respect me and we get along), back in the day it was called "mutually assure distruction" or MAD for short. If your moral obligation to strip another of their weapons because of some ill concieved "moral obligation" to protect yourself or someone else from an "obvious" threat, then you are no different than the "precieved thug" you are seeking to disarm by the simple virtue of your willingness to use deadly force or threaten to use a weapon against him. You are no longer respecting the peace (or MADness) that exists between you.

Had the US NEVER gotten involved in the ME, I mean NEVER once then the issues between us and them would be rather inert. OBL would be a freedom fighter in Afghanisan fighting for what he believed in and the US would be of little consiquence to him.
For example: if your moral obligation extends beyond your own and instead of respecting the fact that women are to wear hijabs, not vote and are treated like dogs so you want the Afghanis to comply with your moral standards.. well you've made an enemy. Go ahead and go to Afghanistan and petition for womens rights.. I don't care.. hell I'm all for you doing that. But don't send my army, send my money and force me to sacrefice for YOUR moral beliefs. It aint right.

Why aint it right? Because women already have rights in this country, anyone wanting womens rights are more than welcome to come here and live free. I resent having been forced into this whole shitbag over some moral obligation to bring your morality to the rest of the globe, I never wanted it and never will. My only concerns are for me, my life and how I choose to live it. Everyone else in this country is a"legedly" free to do the same. Cept you. You think that I "should" be concerned about "blaahhh blaaahhh." Well excuse me, just because you are scared of the big bad wolf doesn't mean that I should be or that I even believe that a big bad wolf exists in the first place. How about you grow a set of balls. I got a set, I don't care about no big bad wolf. I'm gunna die some day so I'm not going to waste my time running around trying to kill every big bad wolf you or the government has identified as a potential big bad wolf who MAY or MAYNOT kill me or eat me. I mean WTF.. over eat and yer dead, smoke and yer dead, be the most healty person on the planet and boom! dead in a traffic accident.. So I don't care, I got enough bullsheit in my own life to worry about. Gimme my beer, gimme my cocane and weed, gimme some hot slutty women and no matter HOW I die some day I know I will have lived a very happy life and will have died a very happy man.

No ship off the coast of New York is going to scare me into thinking that it has any kind of power over me. Ive got thousands of nukaler warheads of my own and just as many crazy yahoos like myself who don't care and are just itching to use them. IE I'm fully prepared for any and ALL eventualities. Go ahead and build a bomb.. **** man.. bring it on biotch! I'm nucking futs! Just got done whoring, doing up a dime bag and sniffin a pound...My life is complete.. so wanna **** with me? Huh? Want some of this? You don't want me to come up off this chain biotch because I got some serious pain to bring on!


 
quote
Originally posted by FIEROPHREK:

So what happens when a ship shows up 50 miles of the coast of New York city with a scud missle carring a nuclear warhead, or any city along our coast for that matter? So he doesn't have a means to launch it by land and hit us, The Earth's surface is 75% water and anyone can go playing around in it. We have a 12 mile sheild but Scud missles have a range of over 300 miles ( more probably) . Everyone tries to downplay the seriousness of this phsyco developing, or even harboring individuals that want to develop, nuclear weapons. Why ? The threat is real . Some people here just have the ostrich syndrom. . . If I bury my head in the sand it'll go away. . . . good luck with that. I wonder if they make 8gillion SPF sunblock cause i might need it, i here nuclear blasts are toasty

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 06-23-2006).]

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84Bill
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Report this Post06-23-2006 11:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84BillClick Here to visit 84Bill's HomePageSend a Private Message to 84BillDirect Link to This Post
Your opinion view of "reality" is not mine, I never said you were stupid or even infered you were stupid. Are you calling me stupid?

I said the concept of war is stupid. I'm no genius, nor do I claim to be NOR are you a genius either. That asside one does not have to be a genius to figure out that war is not a good thing... it's bad... it's always been bad.. people dieing is bad... even wars fought for the greatest of reasons was bad. I question the "intelligence" of people (since we know war is a bad thing on a fundimental level) who feel that war is good, that the outcome of war is good when so many times in history those who have fough war have said "we hope this is the last war ever fought" yet those words are ignored time and time again.

Thats my opinion. I want peace, not war. Can you respect that?

 
quote
Originally posted by JRM-2M6:
No , thats called an opinion.
reality is based on real factors , not someones perception (opinion) of them.
you may think (opinion) someone is stupid (perception) while in fact (reality) they are a genius

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 06-23-2006).]

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Report this Post06-23-2006 11:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for connecticutFIEROSend a Private Message to connecticutFIERODirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JRM-2M6:

you may think (opinion) someone is stupid (perception) while in fact (reality) they are a genius



Well that certainly isn't you.

I think you need some of this.

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Report this Post06-23-2006 12:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ToddsterClick Here to Email ToddsterSend a Private Message to ToddsterDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Firefighter:

God Todd, give it a break. The Republicans are running for cover or going to jail. The Pentagon handed out answer booklets (fact) to all Republicans on how to answer (ho, ho) or sidestep questions this past week during the discussions on Iraq.
I believe that you are still a young man, why don't you sign up and go find those WMDs or NOT.
I certainly support our troops, they are stuck in Iraq, but the war was a giant mistake.
Ed (1st Lieutenant USAR, ret.)


You believe I am a young man? Flattered I suppose but your rationale is certainly not based on my content considering the mindless blathering comeing from Conn and his cronies. I'm 42 Ed, and it shows. A little something called experience and that is why I knwo that this war is the best thing that ever happed to this country. Mistake? Are you nuts? We have not been attacked ONCE since 9/11. Think that was an accident? For decades this country let terrorists dictate terms and get away with it. No more. We were victims of horrendous attacks every year until Bush took office. Now WE are the ones kicking ass.

Get over it. Bush outsmarted you all and it drives you liberals nuts. He is like teflon, you throw false accusations at him all day and they just slide right off. While Democrats are losing their jobs left and right for attempted murder, drunk driving, bribary and corruption, assault, tax evasion, ballot stuffing and other voter fraud, etc, Republicans are being acquitted. Karl Rove after 3 years of investigation is not even going to be CHARGED with a crime let alone tried. You have the nerve to tell me about Republicans runnig for cover? I'm laughing my ass off! Hey, we had this discussion in each of the last 3 elections and Republicans got more and more seats. No difference this time because the American people are not stupid. They see through the veil of the biased News Media and trust their own judegement.

As as a soldier perhaps you can appreciate this statistic, we have lost 2500 brave men and women in the last 3 years of war...compared to the 3200 soldiers we lost in the last 6 hours of WW1. Think WW1 was a mistake? The answer is YES. The war was effectively over before America even entered it. The Germans were already talking terms after Wilson's 14 points and yet we sent hundreds of thousands of our boys to die for a war that was already over. 2500 in 3 years? How can you even argue that that is not a dramatic demonstration of effective planning and execution?

I grieve for every lost life in Iraq, but I know for a fact that their sacrifice will lead to a more peaceful world and THAT is the bottom line...isn't it?
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Report this Post06-23-2006 12:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ToddsterClick Here to Email ToddsterSend a Private Message to ToddsterDirect Link to This Post

Toddster

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Member since May 2001
 
quote
Originally posted by under8ted:


**** ya's is all I can say. 4.5 ****ing BILLION years and the radioactivity of the bush family's war will will still be floating around this planet.





OooooKayy, someone needs to switch to decaf.
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Report this Post06-23-2006 12:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ToddsterClick Here to Email ToddsterSend a Private Message to ToddsterDirect Link to This Post

Toddster

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quote
Originally posted by NEPTUNE:

From yesterdays Chicagao Tribune--(Thats a real newspaper, Toddster):


No it's not. Neither is the New York Times, The AJC, or the SFO Chronical. Just because it is in print does nto make it true. Let's start from the beginning Uranus..

WMD were found. Period.

Now do your understand?

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Report this Post06-23-2006 12:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NEPTUNESend a Private Message to NEPTUNEDirect Link to This Post


 
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:


No it's not. Neither is the New York Times, The AJC, or the SFO Chronical. Just because it is in print does nto make it true. Let's start from the beginning Uranus..

WMD were found. Period.







Welcome to planet Toddster. Reality WILL NOT be tolerated here.
Pown3d.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 06-23-2006).]

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Report this Post06-23-2006 12:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogtownerSend a Private Message to fierogtownerDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:


No it's not. Neither is the New York Times, The AJC, or the SFO Chronical. Just because it is in print does nto make it true. Let's start from the beginning Uranus..

WMD were found. Period.

Now do your understand?


From the 90s.
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Report this Post06-23-2006 12:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for connecticutFIEROSend a Private Message to connecticutFIERODirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:


No it's not. Neither is the New York Times, The AJC, or the SFO Chronical. Just because it is in print does nto make it true. Let's start from the beginning Uranus..

WMD were found. Period.

Now do your understand?



I understand you are delusional.

Everything you disagree with is liberal propaganda.

All the Republicans being investigated, indicted, or pleading guilty like Ney, Abramoff, DeLay, and Cunningham are non existent in your world.

You only see what you want to see.

Why do you think so many members of the administration and appointed cronies have resigned? Is it all part of your big plan?

WMD has been found? If i told you there was vast stockpiles of treasure in Iraq that are still being produced as we speak, would you claim victory after you got there and found only $0.23 cents long since abandoned and nearly worthless scattered throughout the country? After sending 160,000 US soldiers costing 17,000 maimed or killed, and resulting in the deaths of at least 35,000 Iraqi civilians? No you wouldn't. But here you are claiming we found what we were looking for and you were right all along. Face it Todd, it's over, this debate has long been over. You lose, no actually WE ALL LOSE.

This is a non story Todd, and it's making you look like a non-thinker. Wise up.

[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 06-23-2006).]

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Report this Post06-23-2006 03:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for UaanaClick Here to visit Uaana's HomePageClick Here to Email UaanaSend a Private Message to UaanaDirect Link to This Post
Wow...

It doesn't fit your world view so it's a non story.
Yes, recently declassified documents show over 500 weapons found.
Hmm critical thinker might start wondering whats in the documents that are still classified? Maybe things that would upset some ppl. Naw.. that couldn't be it.

To date, we've been told about
1. Restricted weapons (longer than 300mi range)
2. Weapons sold during the UN embargo period (French, Russian, Jordan, and Syrian)
3. 50 Tons of uranium
4. Old chem/bio weapon stockpiles that were never found/reported during all of Hans Blix and the UN weapons inspectors tours (12 yrs worth).

Nope, none of this adds up to anything.

And who let the loon lose ranting about the US invading Canada? eh? WTF
A. Why would we bother
B. You can't fight back, your govt has your guns
C. We supply most of your working hardware.. or are you going to use your leaky UK subs as tanks?
D. Thanks for the 50+ yrs of protecting your ass while you let your military drop to nothing with shoddy equip.
(Nothing against the guys in your service, but even they admit their equip is junk and they can't get anywhere without our support)
E. Your wimpy lib gov't would still be at the UN looking for a resolution and drawing up a stern letter while our tanks are rolling down the streets of Ottawa and Montreal.. (We'll leave the western side alone.. they're kinda normal out there)

(Don't get all excited Canadians, just had to have a little barb back at under8ted)
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Report this Post06-23-2006 03:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84BillClick Here to visit 84Bill's HomePageSend a Private Message to 84BillDirect Link to This Post
Maybe I'm taking this out of context but.....
Trying to mitigate the "few" deaths today as opposed to how many died during the last few days of WWI or WWII?? God damn man... thats seriously farked up!

 
quote
By general R E Tard
"Ahhh whats a few thousand here and a few thousand there? Why hell just 55 years ago we lost that many in a single day huh huh huh.. we are doing way better now. Sure it bothers me but what can I do about it? I think it's great whats going on over there.. "


Brave? I thought it was their duty. Much like your grandpappy was doing his duty 55 60 years ago these guys are doing the same thing and nothing more. It's their job.

 
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:
As as a soldier perhaps you can appreciate this statistic, we have lost 2500 brave men and women in the last 3 years of war...compared to the 3200 soldiers we lost in the last 6 hours of WW1. Think WW1 was a mistake? The answer is YES. The war was effectively over before America even entered it. The Germans were already talking terms after Wilson's 14 points and yet we sent hundreds of thousands of our boys to die for a war that was already over. 2500 in 3 years? How can you even argue that that is not a dramatic demonstration of effective planning and execution?

I grieve for every lost life in Iraq, but I know for a fact that their sacrifice will lead to a more peaceful world and THAT is the bottom line...isn't it?


Do you honestly grieve?

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 06-23-2006).]

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Report this Post06-23-2006 04:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ToddsterClick Here to Email ToddsterSend a Private Message to ToddsterDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by connecticutFIERO:

I understand you are delusional.

Everything you disagree with is liberal propaganda.


This I gotta hear..OK smart guy please explain to me how a Pentagon report that says 500 weapons that are classifed as WMD have been found makes me delusional??

No doubt the answer will have something to do with Aliens

 
quote


All the Republicans being investigated, indicted, or pleading guilty like Ney, Abramoff, DeLay, and Cunningham are non existent in your world.

You only see what you want to see.


What I see is that there is a difference between being a convicted felon and just accused. Once again you continue to try to associate Abramhoff to the Republican party. I keep forgetting, which office was he elected to again. You liberals can't seem to tell me. DeLay? Still under indictment and if found guilt I'm on record as having said "throw the book at him". YOU even gave me credit for that statement...which contradicts your statement above. Were you lying then or are you lying now? Cunningham, I am also on record as having said "Good Ridence".

Now let me ask you again about another convicted criminal, Bill Clinton, convicted felon. Are YOU going to say he was a slug and "good ridence"....No, I guess not. I am just going to get an ear full of excuses and conspiracy theories and talk about "sex", etc.

Double standard laid bare!

What do ignorant kids say these days?...oh yeah, "POWN3D"

 
quote

Why do you think so many members of the administration and appointed cronies have resigned? Is it all part of your big plan?


Uh, like who?

Colin Powell? There is no secret that he and the President just had differing views. Would you like to know how many people resigned under Clinton? Let me give you a hint, it's MORE than those who have left Bush.

And if they are "cronies" then they would not have resigned by definition. So which is it? Are they cronies or did they resign.

 
quote
WMD has been found? If i told you there was vast stockpiles of treasure in Iraq that are still being produced as we speak, would you claim victory after you got there and found only $0.23 cents long since abandoned and nearly worthless scattered throughout the country? After sending 160,000 US soldiers costing 17,000 maimed or killed, and resulting in the deaths of at least 35,000 Iraqi civilians? No you wouldn't. But here you are claiming we found what we were looking for and you were right all along. Face it Todd, it's over, this debate has long been over. You lose, no actually WE ALL LOSE.

This is a non story Todd, and it's making you look like a non-thinker. Wise up.



Uh boy. 500 sarin and mustard gas shells (that are still "LETHAL" according to the report) could be denonated by extremists in a subway or baseball game in NEW YORK and kill Tens of Thousands of Innocent civilians. Are you really too stupid to see that? Didn't you hear the story just last week about an aborted plan by Al-Qaeda to use nerve agents in the New York Subway and they were just 45 days from carrying out the plan?

It amazes me that someone with the motor skills to type on a keyboard can't put those two FACTS together and interpolate the obvious.

Thanks Conn, my day was starting our so dull until you lobbed that post up there. It's a pleasure slamming you with logic.

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Toddster

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quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:

Maybe I'm taking this out of context but.....




You are.

And next time you put a statement in a quote box make sure I actually wrote it instead of making **** up you pin head.
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Report this Post06-23-2006 04:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for connecticutFIEROSend a Private Message to connecticutFIERODirect Link to This Post
The truth speaks for itself Todd. I don't need to argue with you about it. Santorum is being ridiculed around the nation for this stupid ass political stunt. You seem to be one of only a handful of trailer trash pseudo-intellectuals that actually took the bait.

You would be a great mate for Bill O'Reilly

[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 06-23-2006).]

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Report this Post06-23-2006 05:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:

Go ahead and build a bomb.. **** man.. bring it on biotch! I'm nucking futs! Just got done whoring, doing up a dime bag and sniffin a pound...My life is complete.. so wanna **** with me? Huh? Want some of this? You don't want me to come up off this chain biotch because I got some serious pain to bring on!



Good gawd, this is like Rambo and Cheech & Chong and Arnie (and maybe Dirk Diggler) all put into a blender together...
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Report this Post06-23-2006 05:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for UaanaClick Here to visit Uaana's HomePageClick Here to Email UaanaSend a Private Message to UaanaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by connecticutFIERO:

The truth speaks for itself Todd. I don't need to argue with you about it. Santorum is being ridiculed around the nation for this stupid ass political stunt. You seem to be one of only a handful of trailer trash pseudo-intellectuals that actually took the bait.

You would be a great mate for Bill O'Reilly



So rather then rebut his statement, or show how these aren't really WMD's you resort to calling him names and posting pics.

In addition, your claims of ridicule are a bit misleading as well.
" WASHINGTON -- Democrats on Thursday ridiculed comments by two leading congressional Republicans that weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0606230101jun23,1,5591207.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed

So the Dems and blogs are jumping on him for bringing this up, but the Repubs are pretty much sitting back and just watching. They know he's all but done for. My guess is he was sent out as a stalking horse to test the waters. He's got nothing to lose, and the republicans can watch the Dems machine, and work out their next strategy.

[This message has been edited by Uaana (edited 06-23-2006).]

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Report this Post06-23-2006 05:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84BillClick Here to visit 84Bill's HomePageSend a Private Message to 84BillDirect Link to This Post
Okay.. So let me circle back around so you can clairify what the context of your message was.


 
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:
You are.

And next time you put a statement in a quote box make sure I actually wrote it instead of making **** up you pin head.


 
quote

A little something called experience and that is why I knwo that this war is the best thing that ever happed to this country. Mistake? Are you nuts?


Experience? Okay, what exactly has been your experience with WAR? Why do you feel it is "the best thing" about it? Are you aware that people are dieing? Do you like death OR is it that it doesn't matter if others die in this war? Do you even care if you die? Clairify what you mean by the above statement because it's very... obscure to me.

If I were to pick say.. the war of independance.. how much better is this war than that war and why is this one better.

 
quote

As as a soldier perhaps you can appreciate this statistic, we have lost 2500 brave men and women in the last 3 years of war...compared to the 3200 soldiers we lost in the last 6 hours of WW1. Think WW1 was a mistake? The answer is YES. The war was effectively over before America even entered it. The Germans were already talking terms after Wilson's 14 points and yet we sent hundreds of thousands of our boys to die for a war that was already over. 2500 in 3 years? How can you even argue that that is not a dramatic demonstration of effective planning and execution?


First I want to state.
I'm a soldier and your "statistics" are bullshit, they mean nothing to me. Those "statistics" are my brothers and sisters in arms who are dead. THEY "were" people not some ****ing number you like to play with to prove a point and I resent you doing so.

Now the question.

1. How in your mind does the 2500 who died in the current war seem any more or less significant than the 3200 in the last 3 days of WWI?

2. You call them "brave." Tell me what in your mind makes them "brave."

3. You say you grieve. Granted each individual grieves in his or her own way but how has the death of one sildier effected your life and has cause you to grieve for his or her loss? What was their significance to you?
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84Bill

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Hehehe... Shaaaa... Don't tell anyone but I have a big letter S attached to my underoos. You should see what happens when I get into a phone booth.


 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Good gawd, this is like Rambo and Cheech & Chong and Arnie (and maybe Dirk Diggler) all put into a blender together...


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Report this Post06-23-2006 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ToddsterClick Here to Email ToddsterSend a Private Message to ToddsterDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by connecticutFIERO:

Santorum is being ridiculed around the nation for this stupid ass political stunt.



Yeah, by desparate Democrats who are scratching and clawing for ANY chance of winning an election...something they haven't done for 12 years.

How's that for "truth speaking for itself"?
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Report this Post06-23-2006 06:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ToddsterClick Here to Email ToddsterSend a Private Message to ToddsterDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:

Experience? Okay, what exactly has been your experience with WAR?


LIFE experience Bill. In other words, experience in understanding what motivates people and why they do what they do. Knowing the answer to this is why I have been successful in sales for 20 years.

 
quote
Why do you feel it is "the best thing" about it? Are you aware that people are dieing? Do you like death OR is it that it doesn't matter if others die in this war? Do you even care if you die? Clairify what you mean by the above statement because it's very... obscure to me.


2500 American soldiers have died but TENS OF THOUSANDS of American and Middle Eastern civilians are alive today because of their sacrifice. NO Bill, WAR is not useless. It is regrettable, it is painful, it is something to be avoided at all other costs, but it is NECESSARY at times and if you can't see that I understand why so much is "obscure to you". As for death, I believe I already stated in a previous post my greif for my fallen Americans. How many times shall I repeat it before you get it.

 
quote

If I were to pick say.. the war of independance.. how much better is this war than that war and why is this one better.


It's not. They are both necessary acts to resist a dictatorship and defend the idea of freedom.

 
quote

First I want to state.
I'm a soldier and your "statistics" are bullshit, they mean nothing to me. Those "statistics" are my brothers and sisters in arms who are dead. THEY "were" people not some ****ing number you like to play with to prove a point and I resent you doing so.


Fine, I want to state that the fact that you wore the uniform does not give you any special insight into the cause or justification of war. The fact that you have no education in political science and no experience in international relations makes you even LESS of an authority on the subject. I spent 6 years living overseas and working with and in all kinds of hostile environments. I worked witht he navies of the world building submarines and I built control systems for oil rigs in places the army would be afraid to go, so knock off the "I was a soldier once so I know more about everything than you" crap. It's getting tiresome.

Those dead soldiers are MY brothers and sisters too. Brothers in freedom, Sisters in courage. Your claim to have some special relationship with them is fallin on def ears. Because you DON'T. It is no different than any other freedom loving American who greives for our loved ones who died in 9/11. Get off your high horse and TRY to make a point.

 
quote

1. How in your mind does the 2500 who died in the current war seem any more or less significant than the 3200 in the last 3 days of WWI?


6 hours, not days. The World War 1 Armistice was signed at 5:00 am on November 11, 1918. But the terms of the Armistice did not call for ceasation of hostilities until 11:00 am. Hence, for 6 more hours after everyone KNEW that the war was over, fighting continued. In those 6 hours 3200 American soldiers lost their lives!

THAT is the definition of a pointless waste of life. Those men TRUELY died in vien. Yet do I hear you blathering about their loss? No, you just ***** about the 2500 we have lost over a skillfully fought 3 year campaign that is ANYTHING but pointless. Those 2500 men and women contributed to the liberation of MILLIONS, To the security in America of HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS for nearly 5 years now, and to the preservation of COUNTLESS scores of people who would be dead today if Saddam your buddy was still in power to develop his WMD. This is not rocket science Bill.

 
quote

2. You call them "brave." Tell me what in your mind makes them "brave."


The willingness to put themselves in harms way for those who can not defend themselves, like the Iraqi and Afghani people, American citizens, and world peace in general.

 
quote

3. You say you grieve. Granted each individual grieves in his or her own way but how has the death of one soldier effected your life and has cause you to grieve for his or her loss? What was their significance to you?


Since my own brother-in-law fought (an survived thank God) 2 campaigns in Afghanistan, My Wife's Cousin is in Iraq right now, my Great Uncle was a marine in the Pacific in WW2 and fought in Guadlecanal and Okinawa, and my grandfather landed on Utah Beach and was wounded 3 times and eared a bronze start in Europe, and more....I feel it very personally. Because I think that any one of those soldiers could be my brother-in-law or cousin. I think that any one of those guys could have been my grandfather and then I would never have been born, I think of the children and grandchildren who WILL never be born because of those 2500 deaths...and I STILL see value in their mission.

They die and I feel mad, sad, frustrated, helpless, and yet comforted. Comforted by the absolute knowledge that they are doing the right thing. This war is necessary, this war is nobel, this war will be long remembered as the point in history where an entire part of the world that had been enslaved since the dawn of man, finally became free!

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Report this Post06-23-2006 07:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FirefighterClick Here to Email FirefighterSend a Private Message to FirefighterDirect Link to This Post
Todd, we were not talking about WWI or WWII or Korea or Viet Nam. The Democrats were responsible for not dealing with Viet Nam correctly, that's history. the Republicans are responsible for not handling Iraq correctly. Afganistan - OK kill the bastards. But Iraq, - it's too bad that neither political party learned anything from history.
You are like the mother at a military parade who says to the person next to her -
"Look, everyone is out of step except for my Johnny". REALLY ?????????????????
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Report this Post06-24-2006 01:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TugboatSend a Private Message to TugboatDirect Link to This Post
Todd, how can you say for sure that "TENS OF THOUSANDS of American and Middle Eastern civilians" would be dead if we hadn't started a war with Iraq?

Good Luck!
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Report this Post06-24-2006 01:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for acemanSend a Private Message to acemanDirect Link to This Post
Did you all ever ponder that the WMD are hidden somewhere in remote Iraq or were shipped over to Syria or Iran BEFORE the war started? No, that probably isn't it. After all Iraq is only the SIZE OF CALIFORNIA! Saddam flew his jets to Iran before the Gulf War. Saddam still believes that he will rule again in Iraq.

Did you all ever ponder where all those artillery shells came from that are used in IEDs???? They haven't been imported in the past couple years! Approximately 40 IEDs are discovered before they detonate DAILY in Iraq. Another 20 are detonated every day in Iraq. That's about 60-120 artillery shells used by the insurgents on a daily basis. Saddam didn't care about hiding them before he went into hiding. But, you can bet that he hid every WMD or plans of WMD before the invasion.

He had nothing to hide before the war but would delay UN inspectors by hours or days or weeks before they could inspect. Now think a bit people...... You suspect your child of having something in his room and he/she tells you that you can inspect it in 2 hours or 2 days. 99% chance they're hiding something.

Do you guys understand what the buildings looked like when the U.S. military took them over for our troops??? Some of these buildings had abandoned disorderly rooms. Other rooms in those same buildings were cleaned spotless.

How many documents and "projects" are there buried in the sands and hills in that country. How many deals were made with Syria and Iran by basically saying "I'll be back for these, but if not, they're yours to enjoy."
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Report this Post06-24-2006 01:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogtownerSend a Private Message to fierogtownerDirect Link to This Post
If there is WMD's in Iraq, are they waiting for a special time to send them over? Saddam was hiding, so why didn't he just launch the "WMD's"? He was screwed anyways and was indeed one corrupted ruler, so what was he waiting for to send his "WMD's"?
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Report this Post06-24-2006 09:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ToddsterClick Here to Email ToddsterSend a Private Message to ToddsterDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tugboat:

Todd, how can you say for sure that "TENS OF THOUSANDS of American and Middle Eastern civilians" would be dead if we hadn't started a war with Iraq?

Good Luck!


I think you just answered your own question.
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