Do not ask me how I get myself into these kinds of messes please .
Ok, the wife and I ran into one of my old girlfriends. It was pretty cool. The wife just loved hearing about the "old cliffw", much to my displeasure .
It happens that things are not going well for the Ex. Got the holiday blues, happens to be sick, and her central heat is not working plus no money to get it fixed. I offered to look at it and the EX invited us over for breakfast. She is living in poor conditions.
She has a Coleman gas furnace. The pilot light will not stay lit, even after holding the pilot button for more than a minute. Would this be a faulty thermocouple ?
Also, I think in the past I have lit heaters bypassing the pilot light. By turning the gas controller to full on and using a very long match. Can you sat "SWOOOOOF". This would not work on her system either. Is it possible on some systems a bad thermocouple would not allow this desperate lighting method.
My wife wants her system fixed and either I am the fix it man or I am gonna have to pay someone to do it.
Your help would be much appreciated by me and moreso by the Ex.

Yep, sounds like a bad thermocouple. Newer furnaces (well, not new, but you know what I mean) will not allow you to bypass the pilot the way the old ones did with a bad thermocouple. At least it's a cheap fix. Is the old girlfriend still hot? You kind of skipped right over that part, I'm sure by accident.........

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Do not ask me how I get myself into these kinds of messes please . Ok, the wife and I ran into one of my old girlfriends. It was pretty cool. The wife just loved hearing about the "old cliffw", much to my displeasure . It happens that things are not going well for the Ex. Got the holiday blues, happens to be sick, and her central heat is not working plus no money to get it fixed. I offered to look at it and the EX invited us over for breakfast. She is living in poor conditions. She has a Coleman gas furnace. The pilot light will not stay lit, even after holding the pilot button for more than a minute. Would this be a faulty thermocouple ? Also, I think in the past I have lit heaters bypassing the pilot light. By turning the gas controller to full on and using a very long match. Can you sat "SWOOOOOF". This would not work on her system either. Is it possible on some systems a bad thermocouple would not allow this desperate lighting method. My wife wants her system fixed and either I am the fix it man or I am gonna have to pay someone to do it. Your help would be much appreciated by me and moreso by the Ex.

Sounds like a thermocouple. They are not that expensive and they are easy to install. I've had the same thing happen to me and that was the solution. Gas valves usually don't go bad.

Mark

Yup, I'll second the thermocouple. Make sure to pull the old one and measure it, they sell them in different lengths. It's not a big deal t o have one that's too long, you can always coil it up, but too short makes for a return trip to the store. Home Depot, Lowes, or most hardware stores will stock them.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: Is the old girlfriend still hot? You kind of skipped right over that part, I'm sure by accident.........

No, she is freezing
Time has not been good to her, it shows in her eyes. She has let herself go. Her heart is as warm and beautiful as ever though. It even enamored my wife.
Thanks John. Any other advice ? I am gonna have to drive about 80 miles one way to try to fix it. Any test procedures I can try ?

Take the old one out and measure the length of the entire thing. They are pretty much universal other than length as mentioned earlier. Get one that is longer instead of shorter if you can't get your exact size. It should bolt in fine. Clean the carbon build up off af anything in there that may look like a probe. If the flame sensor gets carboned up too much the furnace will not remain lit. (Newer furnaces)

[This message has been edited by RACE (edited 12-06-2005).]

If you have to make that long a drive to get one, take the old one out first and take it with you. There are slight variations, most of which can be worked around (unless you get one that's just too short). I've never found a good way to test one other than if the pilot won't stay lit (it does have a nice flame with the button depressed though, right??) then it needs replaced.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Ok, thermocouples are pretty much universal ? Length being the important factor ? Most have the same threads or do I need to find a Coleman dealer ?

They *do* make testers for thermocouples, but the tester is more expensive than the thermocouple itself. I have one, but that doesn't really help you out much I know.

Flame is about an inch long and all blue. It is a convertable unit (mobile home), gas or liquid propane gas. The home is supplied with city gas. The instruction plate (lighting, operation, etc) states that the flame should have a yellow tip, gas should be blue. I am gonna grab the longest one I can get providing they do not come twenty feet long. I would like to arrive with the part, fix it, and get away. No knock on the gal but, I feel uncomfortable by being better off, I feel it makes her blues sadder.
If it does not work it would have to be the controller valve, correct. I mean there is not much to these systems. Gas, control valve, pilot light. Other than a good cleaning, flue inspection.....oh yeah, I just remembered.
Her system has an air flow circulating fan and another on which aereates the burner flames ( I forget the name). She said it was making a noise and pointed out she shimmed this fan's motor to stop a rattle.
I think I got it, thanks for the help. I will leave around noon so if anyone has other insight I will check back before I go.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 12-06-2005).]

It's almost definitely the thermocouple. If you replace it and it still doesn't work, then it's the gas valve itself. That's about the only two parts that can cause those symptoms. 9 times out of 10, it's the thermocouple.

Time to pull the old one out and head to Lowes. Should be pretty cheap.

I have gotten around a new one by moving it closer to the pilot lights hotspot.

But it was only temporary.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 12-06-2005).]

WTF dude!? Call a HVAC guy...not a car forum.

Be sure and blow out the area around the thermocoupler. Sometimes dust can alter the flow of air around the coupler til it will not work properly.

A cold X and a hot wife = "Thermocouple"

New concept to me

?? You're in TX!

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2403497

Or throw on an extra blanket.. darn southern ninnys.

Give us a call when your high for the day will be 5f.

quote Originally posted by DOHC_SWAPPER: WTF dude!? Call a HVAC guy...not a car forum.

WTF dude!? Some people on car forums have lives outside of the internet. Some of these external lives come with the benefit of gaining experience with things other than cars, as all the posts preceeding yours would suggest.

If you can't handle that, I would suggest that you divest your self of any further uges to participate in TO/T threads as you'll likely find the experience somewhat miserable.

[This message has been edited by dguy (edited 12-06-2005).]

A bit late at this point, but another vote for the thermocouple.
I fixed my water heater for about $6 by replacing the thermocouple. Would do exactly the same thing as you are describing.

i'm voting on the thermocoupler also.

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: i dont know what to say to you.

Best to use words with only one or two syllables, if anything.

quote Originally posted by DOHC_SWAPPER: WTF dude!? Call a HVAC guy...not a car forum.

You know, someone on this "car forum" may be a furnace repairman by trade; and could offer some advice. Although, it looks as though there are a few members here that have fixed a furnace or two in there lifetime, and have stepped forward to help.

This may be a "car forum", but we have a lot of people who come from all walks of life; and I'll bet we have "experts" here on just about any subject that may arise. Just think...there may be a time when you need help that's not car related, and someone on this "car forum" may just have the help; or the answer to the question that you need.

[This message has been edited by Deabionni (edited 12-06-2005).]

quote Originally posted by DOHC_SWAPPER: WTF dude!? Call a HVAC guy...not a car forum.

In only 69 posts, you've proven to be an idiot in over half of them. Leave the guy alone, he's asking for help.

quote Originally posted by DOHC_SWAPPER: WTF dude!? Call a HVAC guy...not a car forum.

Hmm...OK, I'll resist the urge to "flame-on", and just share with you some insights that you probably lack due to your relative newbiness here.

You'll find, with experience here, that this is probably the most comprehensive, not to mention eclectic group of individuals you're likely to find on any single internet forum. In case you didn't notice, this place is a beehive of activity, logging hundreds of posts per day. Among this group of guys (and some gals) you'll find some of the most competent, technically savvy individuals around. It's been said more than once, that a person can post a question here about almost anything, and get an accurate, detailed answer to their inquiry. There are people of all educational backgrounds, social and economic makeup, and degrees of technical aptitude. You'll find doctors, lawyers, pilots, mechanics, pc gurus, and yes, even HVAC technicians. You'll also find that among the high level of competence represented in this forum, there is typically a great desire amongst the members to share their knowledge and experience with those in need. However, that desire does not cloud everyones objectivity. Generally, only those who truly posess the knowledge being requested will volunteer their thoughts and advise. And if someone *should* happen to pass along a piece of mis-information, that error is often put into correction in short order. And, in the off chance, that it is a topic that people here see as being high-risk, they will urge the poster to seek professional assistance, which is normally accomplished in a much more diplomatic manner than, "WTF dude....".

If you stick around for a while, and pay attention, you'll find that this forum can be an amazing source of information and knowledge.

BTW, I personally serviced HVAC equipment for about 10 years in a professional capacity, so in effect, he DID call an HVAC guy...probably more likely, he called 8 or 10 of us when he posted his question.

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: Hmm...OK, I'll resist the urge to "flame-on", and just share with you some insights...

Thanks for that post.
'Twas much more polite and useful than mine.

quote Originally posted by Deabionni: Just think...there may be a time when you need help that's not car related, and someone on this "car forum" may just have the help; or the answer to the question that you need.

Then again, maybe not...............

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: BTW, I personally serviced HVAC equipment for about 10 years in a professional capacity, so in effect, he DID call an HVAC guy...probably more likely, he called 8 or 10 of us when he posted his question.

Me too. I did HVAC for a few years before going to college to study Mechanical Engineering.
(crawling under people's houses helped make that decision )

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Me too. I did HVAC for a few years before going to college to study Mechanical Engineering. (crawling under people's houses helped make that decision )

Heh....breaking down and draggng out old oil and convection furnaces from dirty basements did it for me.

Although, some of the computers I open are dirtier inside than some of those basements!

Make sure and check the bi-metal ( small usually round, switch itself is kind of like a jar lid. i.e. pops in and out like a tamperproof lid) switch on the furnace door. I fit trips itself the furnace will not ignite. Also there SHOULD be a pressure trip switch (similar to a dome light switch in your cars door jamb) on the furnace door also, if it is not closing all the way it will not let the furnace cycle either.

[This message has been edited by lonely saints fan (edited 12-06-2005).]

Those things won't keep the pilot light form blazin' though....

quote Originally posted by RACE: Take the old one out and measure the length of the entire thing. They are pretty much universal other than length as mentioned earlier. Get one that is longer instead of shorter if you can't get your exact size. It should bolt in fine. Clean the carbon build up off af anything in there that may look like a probe. If the (old) flame ....... gets carboned up too much the furnace will not remain lit.

Are you talking about the heater or the old GF?

Well, Did you get her fired up?

I had the same problem with a gas furnace once.

Turned out the thermocouple was fine. It was, however, lying on the floor; the bracket which held it was broken.

Did anybody mention it might be the thermocouple?

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Are you talking about the heater or the old GF?

Speaking of that, be careful around old flames or your wife could get lit up. You do not want that!

Give us the update.

As I had a furnace that did the same thing, and it was the thermocouple, I'd say that was it...but I think someone may have already beaten me to it...

I'm betting it's the Thermocouple.....Am I a HVAC person...no, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last Night

[This message has been edited by DanFiero (edited 12-08-2005).]

quote Originally posted by DanFiero: I'm betting it's the Thermocouple.....Am i an HVAC person...no, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last Night

LOL!

Whats the word, did it work??? I think it's the thermocouple too.

Yep me, another guy that was a HVAC guy, it was more put of my other inclusive building maintenance job and I already agreed with the many others so I was not going to post.
They say most people have several careers over their life times and if we average us out we are about mid life so, some of us had to have been or currently are HVAC guys

It was the thermocouple but..........now I have a wiring problem. There are two wires coming from the control valve. One I assume for the thermostat setting, and the other for the circulating fan. I had to remove the whole burner assembly, control valve and all. Just uncouple the gas supply line, unhook the two wires, and unmount the unit.
One wire (blue) had a spade terminal so I know where that goes. The other wire (blue, smaller guage) was wire nutted to two other blue wires. Pretty much idiot proof so I did not mark the wires. These wires are behind an access panel, routed through a side wall protested by a hard plastic snap grommet.
I installed the thermocouple and tested without re-routing the wires as the access cover was removed. Somehow, other wires came unconnected. Guess what. The are all blue also. The pilot still stays lit but the buner will not fire nor will the circulating fan start (of course). I tried a few different wiring combinations but no luck. The access cover has a decal with the wiring schematics but most of it is missing or unreadable.

quote Originally posted by DanFiero: Am i an HVAC person...no, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last Night

I thought it wise to come home and sleep with the wife so I need some more help. Never thought this thread would bring so many laughs . Thanks. Nor did I think it would attract a troll.

quote Originally posted by DOHC_SWAPPER: WTF dude!? Call a HVAC guy...not a car forum.

WTF dude !?, Why did you even click on this topic. It is better to be presumed an A$$ than open your mouth and remove all doubt. Let me spell it out dud (no typo). I will type real slow so you can keep up. This is not a car forum. It is a Fiero owners forum or those that are interested in the Fiero. "Totally O/T"........oh, I see. You have no clue what O/T means. It stands for off topic which means..........other than Fieros.
As I said, I did not sleep at Holiday Inn Express last night.

quote Originally posted by lonely saints fan: Make sure and check the bi-metal ( small usually round, switch itself is kind of like a jar lid. i.e. pops in and out like a tamperproof lid) switch on the furnace door. I fit trips itself the furnace will not ignite. Also there SHOULD be a pressure trip switch (similar to a dome light switch in your cars door jamb) on the furnace door also, if it is not closing all the way it will not let the furnace cycle either.

I am pretty sure though, that the wires for these switches are part of the new problem. Thanks for bringing up other thoughts.
I am now needing the wiring schematics for a Coleman gas furnace, model number 8665D766. Any online sites I can check other than Colman dot com ?

Ugh. This could get ugly here. Typically, the wiring to the thermostat is pretty much standard. Most HVAC guys try to adhere to a color standard when they install a system. You are probably going to be hard pressed to find a wiring diagram, but you might be able to trace things out. First we need to know if this is JUST a furnace installed here, or does it have a/c also? Or, could it be a heat pump? If it's just a furnace, we can probably figure it out. If it's got a/c, that's a bit more complicated, b ut not impossible. If it has a heat pump, you might be better off calling an HVAC guy. (Hey, dohc_swapper, see what I did there??)