Alright guys, I'm 16 and my parents bought me a fiero for my birthday. I absolutely love this car. It's a 5 speed with the 4 cylinder engine. I am trying to decide what to do to it. I want to have fast acceleration but I don't want to spend a lot. I am considering a 3800 SC ( possibly N/A ) swap or a 350 chevy. Is there anything else I can do besides a swap to make it fast?

Thanks,

Pat

No swap is inexpensive. You're looking at at least $5K to have a 3800SC swap done, or probably at least $2K if you do it yourself.
For a 3800, you'll have to have mounting brackets and accessory brackets (dogbone and alternator) at least. You'll need a specialized harness to adapt the engine and PCM to the Fiero's electrical system. And a thousand other little bits and pieces that will be required to pull it all together.

A SBC is more complex. Will require an adapter plate, and much more fabrication or welding. Unless you're good at fabricating, I wouldn't recommend it for a first attempt.

Check out mattwa's thread. He swapped a 3800 NA and an F23 tranny into a 4 cylinder coupe. Probably the nearest to a "shoestring budget" swap that you'll find.
He's good, and did most of his own fabrication, but it still wasn't cheap.

I'm not trying to discourage you. I'm more trying to encourage you to not bite off more than you can chew, and have a halfway completed swap sitting in your garage for ever.
But... this is the best forum in the world for new Fiero owners, and if you decide to go ahead, you will find help here.

Having said all that... Welcome to our obsession!
Pics of your ride are always welcome and encouraged.
(Check out the Pennock's Image Poster link at the bottom of the page.)

Again... Welcome!

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Raydar
88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550

Praise the Lowered!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 04-19-2012).]

You really cannot do anything to the "iron duke" in there that would be of any substantial gain without serious $$, and by that time you're better off just doing an engine swap anyway.

It's probably best you just drive that car as is and enjoy it. Many four cylinder Fieros with manual transmissions can get between 35-40 MPG - something to be thankful for in the current "gas economy." If you're wanting a faster Fiero, save up your funds, pick up another one later on down the road, and build that one how you want it.

Fellow MN welcome sent to your P.M. Box. Did'nt want to hy-jack thread in different direction.

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1986 Red s/e 2m6 5-sp, & 2006 Red Solstice 5-sp

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Check out mattwa's thread. He swapped a 3800 NA and an F23 tranny into a 4 cylinder coupe. Probably the nearest to a "shoestring budget" swap that you'll find.

Rydar nailed it. That is some good advice. To keep it simple, I suggest you keep the trans that comes with the 3800.

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Whodeanie built 1988 Fiero GT, loaded, 14k original miles, F23, built L67 swap, ST2 cam and matching valvetrain, PT67 bb turbo, w2a charge-cooled ----400-500whp?????? More mods when I get it back (interior, suspension, lighting etc). Stay tuned!
1987 Fiero GT Road Racer. 1st documented 3.4TDC swap- built in 1994. 5MT Isuzu, Quaife prototype LSD, HT Tubular A-arms, Fully poly & Heim jointed suspension, Custom 3 way adjustible sway bars, HT Bump Steer kit, Koin's, 320# springs, GA brakes, ZEX N20 and more! Under full restoration.
2007 Toyota Tacoma Double cab Prerunner SR5 Stock, and staying that way.
2009 KTM 250SX motocross bike. Modded and fun as hell!

Thanks for the complements Raydar! You bet that swap wasn't cheap, and it is indeed on a tight(er) budget, but I'm not going cheap when really necessary (like the HTOB spacer). But I did make all the mounts, exhaust, fuel lines, myself.

Pat, my fellow teenager (I'm 19, turning 20 in a few months), I don't want you to go though what I did. I have been though ALOT since I got my first Fiero, and while everything I did was a great learning experience, I wouldn't do what I first did ever again. I wasted so much money on my first 3.4 swap that never, ever worked correctly. And that wasn't even an engine swap technically. (half-swap?) Engine swaps are NOT cheap.

When I was 16, I said the exact same thing you are saying now. I want a 3800S/C swap, or 4.9 swap! I can do it! I was told NO, do not attempt to do such a swap when you are just starting off, and it has too much power for you. I was hurt, but I got over it and they were 100% correct. There was no way I could have done this swap at that time. and IMO it has too power for a 16 year old, and even me sometimes. I did dumb things with a 2.8 and 3-speed even back then, like pegging the speedometer on a 35mph street at 3am after work. "All I care about is going fast" just reeks of trouble. Don't throw a swap together either, it'll just be un-reliable when you need to get someplace. Your isuzu will not hold up to any abuse, you'll need another transmission as well.

There is a LARGE list of things you need to either make or buy for a swap. It really adds up. I didn't know better, and spent $1800 on just rebuilding a 3.4. That whole swap was more like $2500, and NEVER worked right. Partly my fault, partly just being 3.4s. Wasted.

If I were you, I'd keep that duke/isuzu in there, they get great gas mileage, I would have kept it in the car that now has the 3800 if it wasn't worn out and had a bad wiring harness. Save up for a nice 3800S/C swap or the like in the future when you have more money and skill.

Sorry if i was too harsh, but that's the way things need to be said sometimes.

Edit: Are you guys saying my build is bad looking? I did my best to make it look nice when you open the decklid.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-20-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Burly: Is there anything else I can do besides a swap to make it fast? Thanks, Pat

Yeah, point it down a steep hill and hope your brakes are in good working order! Seriously though, I am about as cheap as it gets while still insisting that things are done properly.
I have the same car as you with 120k miles
To date on my 4.9 swap (85% done)

2000.00 for good condition Fiero
500.00 good running engine, no rebuild required.
100.00 spray cans for tidying things up
300.00 for clutch capable of power
70.00 machined flywheel (plugged and drilled by friend)
100.00 proper fuel inj. lines to work with car and engine
170.00 reprogrammed chip
100.00 rear poly bushings
100.00 engine mounts
x00.00 misc wrecking yard parts. computer, harness, exhaust manifolds
150.00 v6 fuel pump
????? relocating batery (box and wiring)
new engine belt
idler pulley
air filter and housing

Doing all the work myself and fabrication...
and that's not to mention all the little details and options; cleaners, solvents, fire extinguisher, soldering iron, cut off wheels, tools, angle grinder, hacksaw, welder, welding wire and gas, sandblasting, powder coating, running new hoses, rewiring harness or buying premade $700, hoisting car?, engine stand, engine dolly, cleaning brushes, beer, gaskets, missing parts, fabricating engine mounts, raw steel, trips to auto wreckers (15+), air compressor and tools, drill bits, sandpaper, rags, dust masks, safety glasses, gloves, custom exhaust. etc.

Oh yeah, a 4months off and on working schedule

You really need two cars, one to work on and one to drive. That's about the only way these hobbies work for the average Joe on a budget.

[This message has been edited by Reallybig (edited 04-20-2012).]

The duke was never meant to be a performance engine, but made as an economical "commuter" car. I have an IMSA with a ZZ4 V8 and it is a very fast/quick car, but loud and noisy as a driver. I'd rather drive one or the other Fieros with a V6.. My 2 cents.

Great advice, I wish I had heard this many, many years ago when I pulled a perfect 62K 2.5 out of my 88 coupe to install a 1996 3.4 DOHC motor. That swap took me over 5 years to finish. I admitt that I lost interest in it a few times, and even bought a 2005 GTO because I was pissed that I could not get it done (great car, bad idea).

Bottom line:

Figure out how much money you have to spend on the swap - then multiply that number by 2.
Figure out how mcuh time you have to spend on the swap - then multiply that number by 3.

But, hey you have us. Keep the questions coming.

Rob

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88 Coupe, CJB T-TOP, LS376 and a GT clip
Build Thread: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/083204.html
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAH9yjw6XR0
Web Site: http://www.vafieros.com/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pag...ciation/471024735229

If your in Minnesota go to one of the Minnesota Fieros Forever club meetings. There are plenty of members who have done swaps or had them done who will provide you much information about doing swaps and where to get parts and services associated with doing a swap. See thier website for meeting info.

This is Burly, I some how lost my password and I couldn't get it back and had to make a new account. Okay Thanks for the help. I know from reading the forum that a swap is not cheap. The most I would want to be spending would be around $3000. Would a swap be possible for that or should I just stick with the iron duke? I will try and a picture up soon. Thanks, Pat

I threw together a list of what my expenses are so far and im about 60% through the swap.
Fiero-$450
Bearings and seals for tranny-$50
Gaskets from zzp-$205
Grease-$20
Coupler-$25
Trans brackets-$100
Motor 3800sc-$100
Spec 3 clutch-$140
Flywheel-$200
Vacuum re-plumbing-$60
Flywheel bolts-$15
PP Bolts-$10
TOB-$30
Cradle bracket-$50
PCM reprog-$60
Misc hose wire bolts and what not-$100
Arizona cradle with poly installed-$300


Mind you I probably should have added another $200 on for cleaner, paint rocker guard tape and all that junk.
Ill be into it for nearly 2k maybe a little over after completion.

keep it stock unless you have

1. The time and the patience

2. the MONEY

Also please consider this... The duke is a fine engine for a first car, and since your car is a manual and if you r gentle with your right foot you could easily get 40mpg

[This message has been edited by Spaxspore (edited 04-22-2012).]