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HOW BIG CAN I GO..?? by SMTHGT
Started on: 05-18-2010 06:21 AM
Replies: 17
Last post by: Australian on 05-19-2010 04:25 AM
SMTHGT
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Report this Post05-18-2010 06:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SMTHGTSend a Private Message to SMTHGTDirect Link to This Post
Ok, I am doing some research and would like your semi/professional opinion.... As far as wheel spacers are concerned... How BIG can I go and it still be safe..?? I know that I will be using a 1" spacer on the front. So, I guess the question is for the rear... NOW, Before you answer, remember that I have 4.9L w/ lots of torque... Now, answer... Thanks for joining this discussion.

[This message has been edited by SMTHGT (edited 05-18-2010).]

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Hockaday
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Report this Post05-18-2010 08:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HockadaySend a Private Message to HockadayDirect Link to This Post
imho wheel spacers always = bad idea.
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SMTHGT
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Report this Post05-18-2010 08:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SMTHGTSend a Private Message to SMTHGTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hockaday:

imho wheel spacers always = bad idea.


Oh, I totally agree.. This is really going to be temporary anyway... I dont want to hold my whole project up and just keep it parked due to lack of the MADCURL rims I am looking at. But......
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Frizlefrak
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Report this Post05-18-2010 09:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FrizlefrakClick Here to Email FrizlefrakSend a Private Message to FrizlefrakDirect Link to This Post
Katatak is using them on the XTC.....big ones. The car looks much better now that the tires sit flush with the body work. Hopefully he will chime in soon, or just drop him a PM.
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Fieroseverywhere
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Report this Post05-18-2010 09:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereDirect Link to This Post
Spacers suck! Adapters on the other hand are not a bad thing. The difference being one is bolt on the other is not. Just make sure to get a good quality set. Eibach used to make some that carried a 1 million mile warrenty in a 5x100, though I can't seem to find them anymore. Don't buy ebay specials if you want your car to stay together. Adapters are not nearly as bad as some people would have you believe.

I thought these might be a good way to go...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRD-3604/
5x100 to 5x4.5 adapter (also known as 5x114.3). Finding wheel offsets that work is not easier then 5x100 though... unless you have a very wide body. He he. I mean your car of course!

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 05-18-2010).]

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dratts
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Report this Post05-18-2010 10:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsDirect Link to This Post
I guess that I have adapters on mine since they stay on when I remove the wheels. I have 2" in front and 4" in the back. I drove from new jersey to idaho a year ago and haven't had any problems. I broke the isuzu that's behind my 350 vortec and no adapter problems. That being said, I'm going to install my held suspension with 13" rotors. I did apply full torque a few times and some fairly hard cornering.
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pontiackid86
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Report this Post05-18-2010 11:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Click Here to Email pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hockaday:

imho wheel spacers always = bad idea.



Not always. i had them on my 1st 86 (i dident put them there) but i never had any drive problems with them.they wernt huge spacers though.
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katatak
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Report this Post05-18-2010 03:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
Here's my 2 cents worth on wheel adapters/spacers. I did a lot of searching and reading on wheel adapters because I was weary of them. What I found is that many off road race teams use the adapters on thier race vehicles - up to and including the 800 HP 4 wheel drive super trucks - they run them at the Baja 1000 and never have issues with them. They use them to compensate for different wheel/tire combo's that they use for different race conditions - rocky terrain requires different tires than those used on a closed track course - all designed to keep the tires within the wheel wells and / or a specific center line for wheel track width, etc. etc. - I have no idea about offroad racing - just relaying what several teams talked about during my search.

Another thing to keep in mind is how they are made. Some of the ones - really most of the ones on EBay are of poor quality. They use a standard length stud and recess them into the adapter. You want the ones that use the appropriate length stud that allows the head of the stud to sit flush with the rotor side of the adapter. When the adapter is torqued to the hub, this "captures" the stud and eliminates the potential of the stud "wobbling" and failing. I have 1.5 in the front and 2.5 in the back - could probably go to 3 or 3.5 in the back but I can fill what's left simply by going with a wider tire. That's the other consideration - use the thinest adapter and the widest tire combo to achieve the fit you are looking for.

One caution is how you torque the lug nut holding the wheel to the adapter. If you over torque, you run the risk of "spinning" the stud in the aluminum adapter. Getting the tire off at a later date will prove disasterous - resulting in the destruction of the wheel to get it off the car. A quality spacer will come with torque specs for the lug nut to wheel. Follow them!

Once in awhile, a quality manufacturere will come up on E Bay. Search with Google or your favorite search engine. WHen you find them, call the company and ask questions. PISA Corp in Phoenix makes quality adapters. Just call them and talk to them about what it is you want. One more important thing to remember is to make sure the adapters you are using are set up for concentric to concentric. You want the adapter to fit snuggly on the concentric ring on the hub and the adapter needs the concenrtic ring machined into it for the wheel. This distributes the load and centers the wheel, adapter and hub.

I ran adapters on the XTC for over 10k miles. I kept a close eye on them - meaning I would periodically remove the wheels and check/recheck the torque on the lug nuts holding the adapter to the hub. Not once did I find a loose one. Not one issue with them so far. Now keep in mind that it was running a Duke - not a lot of torque and HP. We just completed a 4.9 swap on the XTC and will have to "wait and see" how the adapters hold up to a little more torque and HP. Time will tell. If a 4000 lb super truck with 800 hp flying through the air fr 40 plus feet does not break them, I seriously doubt my 200hp Fiero will hurt them.

Bottom line for me is that if I did not have to use them, I would not. Unfortunatley, if you are running a wide body, it's the only way other than paying a lot of money for custom built-lengthened suspension parts or having custom deep dish wheels made specifically for your car. I simply can't afford that kind of money so I just keep my eye on the adapters. 1st sign of trouble and I'll have to rethink it. Some will argue about changing the center of the load on wheel bearings and suspension, etc. My take on all of that is if I were racing at Indy or Limerock I may be concerned - for my daily driver - I am not too worried.

Spacers - those things that just sit over the existing studs - even if you have to install longer studs in the hub are a bad idea. I have used these in the past on a drag car in the front and was constantly having problems - mostly the lugs would loosen off and then the spacer would "float" around and eat up the studs, wheel wobbles, studs break, etc. Never use a spacer.

That was more like 2 dollars worth!

Pat

[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 05-18-2010).]

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revin
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Report this Post05-18-2010 03:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinDirect Link to This Post
pat,
careful, you don't know who you are dealing with!!
Smooth will ask you all kinds of questions!! RUN, RUN for the hills!!

Steve, we know you will never have a road worthy Fiero...give it up
Pimping it out huh? I hear the neon lights under the car are still cool. when will it be smooth II?
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Isolde
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Report this Post05-18-2010 03:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IsoldeSend a Private Message to IsoldeDirect Link to This Post
I've seen broken cast aluminum adapters, but forged billet versions seem to survive most anything.
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gtxbullet
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Report this Post05-18-2010 04:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gtxbulletSend a Private Message to gtxbulletDirect Link to This Post
honestly if you're dead set on wheel spacers...8mm
dont get the aluminum stack style (bolt to studs, then have their own studs)
just my $0.02
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Tony Kania
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Report this Post05-18-2010 04:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaDirect Link to This Post
I always heard not to install spacers/adapters. But, Katatak did his homework, and I remember following his information. Many race teams use adapters in their applications. If a quality unit can withstand the forces applied during racing, I feel that street use is not out of the question.
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nosaint
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Report this Post05-18-2010 04:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosaintSend a Private Message to nosaintDirect Link to This Post
i have 2.5" wheel spacers on my Trans am, I have spacers on my Mercedes, my Ford truck, my Nissan Leopard and my Blazer. NEVER had one incident.

Always hear bad stories but none specific. Unless your gonna run tons of HP, my opinion is you will be ok.

[This message has been edited by nosaint (edited 05-18-2010).]

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SMTHGT
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Report this Post05-18-2010 06:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SMTHGTSend a Private Message to SMTHGTDirect Link to This Post
Okie Dokie... If I choose to go this add on route, then it will be adapters. Thanks everyone for their input. Kevin... Thats ok Mister, take your jabs at me w/ your glass sword... WHY..?? Because it is I that will have the last laugh this time...

[This message has been edited by SMTHGT (edited 05-18-2010).]

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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post05-18-2010 07:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonDirect Link to This Post
I have adapters on my Vette to let me run C6 wheels on my C4. They bolt to the car then the wheel bolts to them. I have a lot of torque and haven't had any problems with them.

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 05-18-2010).]

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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post05-18-2010 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleDirect Link to This Post
If you're worried about the knurling slipping, you could also go with lug bolts, à la VW/Audi style...

Aren't these adapters mostly made to order anyway?

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 05-18-2010).]

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billpapps
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Report this Post05-19-2010 01:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for billpappsSend a Private Message to billpappsDirect Link to This Post
The only time I seen good adapters fail was at the drag strip.
A few Musrat guys was trying to use them a few years ago.
Great fun watching the rear tires out run the car

What I notice then. The adapter would stay on the hub.
But the studs would pull out of the adapters.

Sticky tires and track with lots hp = bad idea with adapters.

I have run them on my corvair. They where harder on front bearings.

[This message has been edited by billpapps (edited 05-19-2010).]

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Australian
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Report this Post05-19-2010 04:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianDirect Link to This Post
It isnt about the spacers they actually allow you to go any offset any size it is about the right tyres to match to the wheels and getting the diameter as close to stock.

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html this is the best tool for the job.

If you compare stock measurements you will see that the diameter can be made up Eg 215/60/15 has the same diameter as 295/25/19 and 225/35/19 or very close only making the speedo 1km out.

As far as width goes it is how far can you afford. You can put a 345 on an 11 inch wheel just costs 1k+ per tyre.
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