I was mating up my 3.4 and my 4T60, and there was a gap that i couldn't fix, i think because the mounts are not right. So i tried putting in a bolt and tighten it and see if that would fix it. Bad idea. Very bad idea. Can I weld this or use JB weld, or am I screwed?
I wouldn't use JB Weld on that but you're not screwed. FedEx managed to crack my transaxle during shipping. I took it to a place that repairs boilers and commercial A/C units. $50 and 2 days later they had it repaired.
It won't win any car shows but it's held up fine, no problems.
Your mount may not be off. I've seen this a few times on other cars where they didn't have the converter all the way dropped in. Therefore not letting the motor & trans mate flush. I dont think jb weld gonna get it done nor would i trust it. Go see someone who can weld aluminum or get a new trans.
Sine it is broken right by the doll pin, my guess would be you didn't have it lined up, or it was too tight a fit.
Like everyone else has said. Find some one who can weld aluminum decent. It is not something you can do if you have no idea how to do it. JB weld would not be strong enough, it would only be good if you wanted it to look complete.
[This message has been edited by LitebulbwithaFiero (edited 12-23-2009).]
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02:27 PM
Mike Gonzalez Member
Posts: 5093 From: Colorado Springs, CO. USA Registered: Jul 2001
Ok, dumb question, but how do you seat it all the way?
Wiggle it and rotate it while pushing it on till it drops in that extra half an inch ! Took me half an hour to get the last one i did seated. You will know when it drops !
[This message has been edited by Mike Gonzalez (edited 12-23-2009).]
Your issue will be that the broken off piece is what precisely locates the engine and tranny centerlines (1 of the 2 locating dowel pins). When you repair it, you could easily cause a mis-alignment that could lead to premature wear in the torque converter, flexplate, input seal or crankshaft bearings. Since it is an auto tranny, you might be able to get by with a repair, but on a manual tranny, I would junk the case.
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04:35 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 22714 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
If you plan on fixing it yourself, then you need to buy yourself a welder with a kit that allows you to weld aluminum. I suggest against getting a straight flux core (because of the thickness of the metal) and go with one that uses gas.
This is a VERY critical piece in the transmission to ensure it's lined up. I don't want to be a jerk, but the only RIGHT way to do this is to have it welded. And unless you plan on buying all the welding equipment and teaching yourself to weld (you won't learn in a weekend, or a month for that matter), then you're just going to ruin all the hard work you've put into this.
This is one of those moments where you have to make the correct decision, or kick yourself (a lot) later on when you realize that you've trashed the transmission, and the crank bearings because the motor was being torqued in a weird direction.
Don't be cheap. You can have a shop do this for under $100 bucks...
Properly done, brazing can be stronger than welding. Racing bicycles (such as Lance Armstrong would use) are brazed, not welded. That's because they're made of thin wall high tempered tubing, and the heat of welding would destroy the temper. I repaired some side rails to my grandkids' bunkbeds with brazing. From the factory, the cross braces on the tubes were welded, and the welds broke from the kids leaning on the rails. I repaired them with nickel-sliver brazing rods (tensile strength 85000 psi), and it has held against the kids' abuse. Edit: If you do decide to braze, do it with this, not Durafix.
[This message has been edited by TopNotch (edited 12-23-2009).]
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05:01 PM
ltlfrari Member
Posts: 5356 From: Wake Forest,NC,USA Registered: Jan 2002
The last (OK, only) time I mated the duke to the th125 tranny it took me about three hours and several attempts to get them to mate. In the end I put a wrench on the engine pulley and used it to turn the crank/torque converter back and forth to help the splines align. Slipped right in.
We have all been here before. Its something you will learn from. But as stated you cannot cuts corners here. You will need to have that piece welded by someone who can weld aluminum. Welding aluminum takes a lot of skill and is not something you will be able to pick up in a day or so.
On the bright side I have had things like this fixed many times before. You would not believe how often I will get a car in with light front end damage and the transmission mount broke off the case, or the motor mount broke off the block. Most of time I can have them fixed in the car.
Seriously, take it to a professional. Welding steel, and welding Aluminum are different. I know from experience. this is not an area you want to "practice" on.
I can weld aluminum, and I have "professional" training on it, however I would not weld that myself, I would instead take it to someone that does it professionally.
If done right this stuff would probably work, but I don't think I'd do it. I used a similar product to put a new trigger guard on a trigger frame and it worked great. Just pay someone to do some real welding for you.
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09:56 PM
eph_kay Member
Posts: 933 From: Independence, MO Registered: Apr 2006
I had problems with this too doing my 3800 swap, didn't get it close enough to try tightening it down though... The trick I used, which you can't do with a clutch which is just as hard, is you put the torque converter in the transmission and get it set, then put it on the engine "aim" one bolt hole so it lines up, then crank the engine over by hand and get the other two bolts.
Unless you are an expert at welding aluminum, I would think twice about that... Or are you being sarcastic…
There are just some things that are better off left to the professionals... As others have mentioned, this part of your trans is not something you want to mucky-mouse to work (temporarily)...
I know professional welders who weld all sorts of intricate steel parts of various sizes who would not attempt to weld a critical aluminum piece. Welding aluminum takes years of practice to master. Sure, there are allot of welders that would weld up a small bracket of some sort. But when it comes to certified (or whatever you want to call a precision weld) aluminum weld, there are not many that can/will do it...
Unless you are an expert at welding aluminum, I would think twice about that... Or are you being sarcastic…
There are just some things that are better off left to the professionals... As others have mentioned, this part of your trans is not something you want to mucky-mouse to work (temporarily)...
I know professional welders who weld all sorts of intricate steel parts of various sizes who would not attempt to weld a critical aluminum piece. Welding aluminum takes years of practice to master. Sure, there are allot of welders that would weld up a small bracket of some sort. But when it comes to certified (or whatever you want to call a precision weld) aluminum weld, there are not many that can/will do it...
Just my 2 cents...
So I guess if I can't find someone, I'm screwed, time for a new case. Which is just GREAT. I hate cars.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 12-24-2009).]
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03:08 AM
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Erik Member
Posts: 5625 From: Des Moines, Iowa Registered: Jul 2002
So I guess if I can't find someone, I'm screwed, time for a new case. Which is just GREAT. I hate cars.
look up welding in the yellow pages in your area ..there should be at least several that can tig that back together ..its really no big deal to have it tigged. I have had cracked trans before several times and was able to weld it up, no sweat. You could even have one come and do it on site but it will most likely cost you about $150.00 possibly cheaper
[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 12-24-2009).]
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04:02 AM
Erik Member
Posts: 5625 From: Des Moines, Iowa Registered: Jul 2002
I wouldn't use JB Weld on that but you're not screwed. FedEx managed to crack my transaxle during shipping. I took it to a place that repairs boilers and commercial A/C units. $50 and 2 days later they had it repaired. It won't win any car shows but it's held up fine, no problems.
Mike
Yep a boilerworks is a good choice, they are professional and can weld up about anything
[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 12-24-2009).]
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04:10 AM
Erik Member
Posts: 5625 From: Des Moines, Iowa Registered: Jul 2002
I was mating up my 3.4 and my 4T60, and there was a gap that i couldn't fix, i think because the mounts are not right. So i tried putting in a bolt and tighten it and see if that would fix it. Bad idea. Very bad idea.
Can I weld this or use JB weld, or am I screwed?
I would take the piece put it back in place with the trans snugged up to the engine, tack weld the broken piece to the trans, then run a bead of weld along the crack. That way it will not warp and will be sure to fit.
[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 12-24-2009).]
I would take the piece put it back in place with the trans snugged up to the engine, tack weld the broken piece to the trans, then run a bead of weld along the crack. That way it will not warp and will be sure to fit.
This ^^^^
That's really your best bet if you can find a way for someone to repair it while it's bolted to the engine. That's exactly what I would do if it was mine. Aluminum is tricky to repair, it takes experience and the proper equipment. I see you live in Cleveland, there should be lots of boiler repair places that you can take it to. Call around, I bet you can find someone that can repair it for you.
That's really your best bet if you can find a way for someone to repair it while it's bolted to the engine. That's exactly what I would do if it was mine. Aluminum is tricky to repair, it takes experience and the proper equipment. I see you live in Cleveland, there should be lots of boiler repair places that you can take it to. Call around, I bet you can find someone that can repair it for you.
Mike
Will do after the holidays!
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01:21 PM
pro street dave Member
Posts: 288 From: ravenna ohio Registered: Dec 2006
Did you rebuild that trans or do any internal work to it for your swap? I bet its a minimum $75 to weld it up. Theres an older gentlemen that runs a trans repair shop up the road from me who doesn't think what he has is worth a million bucks. I bought a 4t60 for $75. I can see if he may have another one. Chris
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02:09 PM
Tony Kania Member
Posts: 20794 From: The Inland Northwest Registered: Dec 2008
First off...sorry to see what happened. We have all broken something important before.
Everyone has some great advice here. It would be very wise to take it to a pro. Two things that I want to add/ask. 1. Did you tighten the engine and transmission down on the mounts before mating the two pieces together? 2. Is that dowel pin really that rusty, or is it just the pic? It looks like there are witness marks where it may be binding while trying to go in. You should go back and mic the hole and the pin. You can use a bit of emery clothe to clean the pin and the hole up. Just don't take too much off. That is a structural area.
Make sure that the engine / trans fits together before trying to force it in :P, should come together fairly nicely, Otherwise you have a problem with the converter not being installed all the way, or the shaft not being fully seated / aligned.
Did you rebuild that trans or do any internal work to it for your swap? I bet its a minimum $75 to weld it up. Theres an older gentlemen that runs a trans repair shop up the road from me who doesn't think what he has is worth a million bucks. I bought a 4t60 for $75. I can see if he may have another one. Chris
Yes, I rebuilt that trans, its nearly brand new inside now.
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:
First off...sorry to see what happened. We have all broken something important before.
Everyone has some great advice here. It would be very wise to take it to a pro. Two things that I want to add/ask. 1. Did you tighten the engine and transmission down on the mounts before mating the two pieces together? 2. Is that dowel pin really that rusty, or is it just the pic? It looks like there are witness marks where it may be binding while trying to go in. You should go back and mic the hole and the pin. You can use a bit of emery clothe to clean the pin and the hole up. Just don't take too much off. That is a structural area.
Merry Christmas!
Tony
1.No I did not it was free to move. 2.No its not rusty, it just has old oil/grease on it. Merry Christmas too all!
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05:25 PM
PFF
System Bot
cliffw Member
Posts: 35864 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: This is a VERY critical piece in the transmission to ensure it's lined up.
I don't know that I agree. Yes, the dowel pins do line it up but me thinks it just lines up the bolt holes. Once all the bolts are tight it should be aligned plenty good. Heck, I'd say he could forget about it, it should still be fine. There are what(?), five other bolts securing the tranny to the engine. No different if he forgot to put one in. I do agree it would be better to get 'er fixed right.
I don't know that I agree. Yes, the dowel pins do line it up but me thinks it just lines up the bolt holes. Once all the bolts are tight it should be aligned plenty good. Heck, I'd say he could forget about it, it should still be fine. There are what(?), five other bolts securing the tranny to the engine. No different if he forgot to put one in. I do agree it would be better to get 'er fixed right.
That's what I was wondering but i was afraid to ask because it would look like I was cutting corners. Yes there are five other bolts that hold it in. I mean, besides looking bad, why do I need that piece anyway (still going to fix it, just curious. Don't hurt me. )
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05:57 PM
LitebulbwithaFiero Member
Posts: 3378 From: LaSalle, Michigan Registered: Jun 2008
Ok, I just finished talking to the guy who helped me rebuild my trans (worked at a trans shop for 13 years), and he says he will take a look at it this week, but is doubtful the case can be saved because it broke at one of the locating dowel pins (like fieroguru said). *sighs* Guess I'm hunting for a new case.
but is doubtful the case can be saved because it broke at one of the locating dowel pins (like fieroguru said). *sighs* Guess I'm hunting for a new case.
Never question a Guru!
Honestly it is in your best interest to find a new case. If you were to ever get your hands on blueprints for an engine or transmission you would see that the holes for the dowel pins are a tighter tolerance than any of the other holes becase they are what dictate the alignment. The bolt holes are of lesser tolerance because the just have to be close enough for the bolts to pass through.
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05:17 PM
Dec 28th, 2009
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Just based on a few of your posts I've seen in the past, you look pretty mechanically inclined (at least more than me) and I was able to try my hand at TIG welding last year and after a few months of practicing every few days I got the hang of it. Its not as easy as just using an aluminum spool gun on a regular Miller MIG welder, but if you really want to fix it yourself maybe look into a aluminum spool gun, or a TIG. Aluminum welding is a great skill to have. Or if you can find a new case, use that, practice your aluminum welding until you're confident, then fix the broken one and you'll have a spare.
BTW, I'm only 18 and yes, I understand that aluminum welding is tricky, but like everything else it just takes practice. After putting together an aluminum frame for a high school supermileage vehicle contest, I would trust my aluminum welding skills, if you're like me, I love having another skill that will help cut down on repair costs in the future. Just my two cents.
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We have all broken something important before. 
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