what did it cost you to do this swap and to what engine .I have seen many threads from do it your selfers but dont remember one that tells how much they spent on the whole install.

No one kept track of how much they spent on this swap

dude, it's been two hours since you posted that, chill out, and come check your thread tomorrow.

------------------
The List;
1) 84 Rabbit diesel 4spd (55+ MPG of daily driving fun) 2) 95 BMW 325i 5 spd (Wife's car)
3) 98 Jetta TDI (to replace the rabbit) 4) 87 Fiero 3800 S1 S/C 5spd (almost road ready)
5) 87 Fiero coupe 5spd FOR SALE
6) 85 S10 diesel 5spd (engine donor) 7) 84 S10 (reveiver)
8) 84 S10 2.5 5spd FOR SALE 9) 87 GMC S15 2.8 5spd parts truck
10) 91 Mercedes 190E (diesel 5spd swap) 11) 84 Mercedes 190D (donor)
12) 87 GT (7730 ecm, 3500, izusu 5spd swap soon) 13) 88 Fiero coupe (Parts car)

Archie sells the complete kit with and with out the tranny , it would be less hassle than trying to make your own kit.

Ya i get over Excited about thing and just like to know things and like to know things fast.
Ok I am Chilling

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 10-23-2009).]

good air in -bad air out - slowly- do it again then do it again.......lol just messin with ya ,i get that way sometimes especially when i know a bunch of people are doing it and i dont get a response

quote Originally posted by Boogaloo: Archie sells the complete kit with and with out the tranny , it would be less hassle than trying to make your own kit.

Yeah for the V8's, I don't know if the kit would be compatible with say a 3800. His kit is fairly pricey from what I remember too.

*edited typos*

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 10-23-2009).]

quote Originally posted by mptighe: Yeah for the V8's, I don't know if the kit would be compatible with say a 3800.

I'm sure he could do a 3800 kit if someone wanted one from him.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: I'm sure he could do a 3800 kit if someone wanted one from him.

I don't know him that well, but I called him a while back (in February I think), and was asking about his conversion kit. When I said 3800 he replied with "I really don't focus on V6's just V8's." That was basically the end of the conversation. Maybe I didn't push enough but I got a distinct feeling he thought it wasn't worth his time. Maybe someone who knows him better might have better luck. I'm looking to do a F40 with a 3800 SC.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: Yeah for the V8's, I don't know if the kit would be compatible with say a 3800. His kit is fairly pricey from what I remember too. *edited typos*

Any thing to do with custom machine work is pricey that is why so many cars remain stock and their owners just dream.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: I don't know him that well, but I called him a while back (in February I think), and was asking about his conversion kit. When I said 3800 he replied with "I really don't focus on V6's just V8's." That was basically the end of the conversation. Maybe I didn't push enough but I got a distinct feeling he thought it wasn't worth his time. Maybe someone who knows him better might have better luck. I'm looking to do a F40 with a 3800 SC.

Yeah that's Archie. He has built his business and reputation on small block Chevy V8s. But the economy being what it is, I imagine he could be convinced to work on a V6. He converted my car even though it's powered by a Caddy 4.9, (gave me a hard time about it though )

I was trying to see if it is worth the swap from 4 speed or 5 speed to the 6 speed is it much more durable so it can handle lik 600 hp or is it just a little bit stronger and not worth the work and money.

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 10-23-2009).]

The F40 is pretty much the only game in town if you want a manual transaxle.

It's rated at more torque than the 4 or 5 speed ever were when they were new (400 N-m or 295 ft-lbs). So a brand new one has to hold more power than a 20+ year old 4 or 5 speed.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the F40 is a FWD transaxle that will bolt to the Fiero bolt pattern? If this is so, than all a person would need is Archie's basic kit as one would only need the axles, mounts and brackets.

In any case, if there is a kit that will fit the 4.9, it will fit the 3800/etc.

I have been mulling over this swap myself, but my main concern is if it is better than the 5 speed in terms of 1st gear - that is to say, is the gain worth the cost. I just need someone with the 4.9/6 speed swap to give me some actual numbers of speed vs rpm (say 3000, 4000 & 5000) in 1st and 2nd gears.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 10-23-2009).]

ok 295 ft lbs vs what and at what cost i havent even seen a price for Archies basic kit is it $1000 or $2000 just trying to get an idea but still no prices

quote Originally posted by engine man: Ok i thought about this and this is what i realy want to know is how much is it to change from a SBC V8 Getrag to the SBC V8 F40 is it just buying archies basic kt or is it more and how much

Archie lists the prices on his web page and the differences between the economy and master kits so you can probably figure from there what parts you will have to buy locally from the master kit to make it all work. http://www.v8archie.com/v8Archie/home.htm

Looks like you will need to source these parts locally if you go with the economy kit:

Intermediate Shaft for 6 Speed G6 Transmission
Left Side G6 Axle Assembly
Right Side G6 Axle Assembly
G6 Hyd. Clutch Line Fitting Check Valve
Dakota Digital SGI-5

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: I have been mulling over this swap myself, but my main concern is if it is better than the 5 speed in terms of 1st gear - that is to say, is the gain worth the cost. I just need someone with the 4.9/6 speed swap to give me some actual numbers of speed vs rpm (say 3000, 4000 & 5000) in 1st and 2nd gears.

I owe you that one of these days... if I can figure out how to log data with my scanner it would be a piece of cake, because I don't trust my speedometer or tachometer...but my buttometer tells me it's probably better than the 5 speed.

Tim, you also forgot to mention the shifter and cables. Archie uses 2 getrag select cables all modified. What those modifications consist of I have no idea, all those little bits start to add up, which is why I paid Archie to do it.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 10-23-2009).]

Hmm went to Archies but dont see the price may be i just not hit the right button but it looks to me he is not listing the price

quote Originally posted by engine man: Hmm went to Archies but dont see the price may be i just not hit the right button but it looks to me he is not listing the price

The prices or on the site.....after you go to transmissions then click on either economy or master to see what each includes and price....

I have 300 bucks in the new F40. Flywheel came off my Firebird 3.4 so it was free. I have new pressure plate and clutch but will have to buy a new 1999 ford Ranger clutch to fit the shaft. I will use factory fiero rubber mounts and make brackets to fit them. Cobalt SS axels with the outer seal machined down to fit fiero seal. Grand am slave plug to snap into transmission and fit fiero clutch line.
I have most parts just trying to get a new place from having to move a few months ago then I will start my F40 swap and have more details then but I do not know when. The 3800 has a flywheel like the 3.4 that is the thickness you need. I am also working with a six speed shifter.

Here's a good DIY thread https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/078656.html

There are only a handful of guys who have completed a DIY F40 6 speed install: Joseph Upson and Zac88GT are two that quickly come to mind. They would be your best bet for info, or just check their respective threads for what all they did.

Remember that while this tranny came in a pontiac, it was designed by SAAB. Yes they are/were part of GM, but you might as well be installing a tranny from a different manufacturer... because that is exactly what you will be doing. The issue with the F40 is that damb near everything is different so you need solutions for everything.

Shifter, Shifter Cables, Shifter Brackets, HTOB connection, new tranny mounts, thicker flywheel for the increased bellhousing depth, non-fiero clutch (different splines), then you get to axles.... the F40 diff is offset 1" to the driver side, so your axles need to be 1" shorter on the DS and 1" longer on the PS than stock fiero. The tripod splines in the F40 are different than any of the Fiero trannys and then you have to mount the support bearing for the intermediate shaft. The Cobalt SS axles have the proper splines and proper length for some fiero swaps depending on engine, but not all. The PS 1999 9-5 axle is very close to 1" longer than the PS fiero and has the proper splines, but the DS is too long. There there is the whole VSS interface issue... that currently requires a dakota digital interface.

I am still in the R&D stages of my F40/SBC install and I am hoping the F40 swap will only add about $1500 in parts... but we will see.

An industrious sole should take this opportunity to standardize the mounting position of the F40 across the entire spectrum of engine swaps (all V6's and V8's) so a single set of mounts & axles would work universally. This would not be an easy task and would require redefining mounting methods on many engine combos... but think of the possibilities.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 10-23-2009).]

This was posted by Cowspatoot here : https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/077838.html for those wondering the differences in ratios.

code:

---

                First         Second         Third          Fourth          Fifth           Sixth
F40          33.3           61.6             95.2          132.3           165.4          202.7
NSX         35.8           56.1             76.9            97.6           120.2          153.2
Getrag      35.3          60.3              89.6          131.5           171.7

---

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 10-23-2009).]

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: An industrious sole should take this opportunity to standardize the mounting position of the F40 across the entire spectrum of engine swaps (all V6's and V8's) so a single set of mounts & axles would work universally. This would not be an easy task and would require redefining mounting methods on many engine combos... but think of the possibilities.

I've done that. My axles are made so that the face of the transmission needs to be 7.00" to the left of the centerline of the cradle.

Archie

ok i found the price and it is not realy cheap in my eyes. I am not saying that it should not cost that much just saying it is more than i would like to spend. now what is the weak point of the getrag the case it self or the gears and shafts?

quote Originally posted by engine man: ok i found the price and it is not realy cheap in my eyes. I am not saying that it should not cost that much just saying it is more than i would like to spend. now what is the weak point of the getrag the case it self or the gears and shafts?

Yeah the price is way out in left field for something that really only cost about $800 to do total. You can get a flywheel/clutch set from SPEC that is a deirect bolt on for the 3800/6 speed. That leaves the axles which was talked about up a few post then also info from the other two that have done it. The shifter is a 4 speed shifter that is re-worked then uses 2 select cables(from what I remember) for the cables. The mounts area just some one off pieces that can be made from flat steel. Also going this route does not have you using a rather large spacer between the clutch/flywheel that is just asking for failure.


The only up side to using a 6 speed is they are new with 0 miles and cheap. The gearing isn't much better than the Getrag and the durability of them really haven't been tested to it's full potentional. I want to do another manuel 3800SC swap and thought about using the 6 speed but that will not be for some time.

[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 10-23-2009).]

I think my swap ended up costing around $3000-3500. The trans was $1000. Spec clutch and flywheel, and aluminum for the adapter was about $1000. And then the axles, intermediate shaft, shifter, new shift cables, clutch line, vss signal converter and machining of the splines was another $1000-1500 or so. The cost would be quite a bit less for someone from the US since shipping would be significantly less and there would be no duty or brokerage fees.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Yeah the price is way out in left field for something that really only cost about $800 to do total.

*IF* you can do it for $800 I am sure everyone else would like to know how - so until you 'actually' do it and have it running you can then sell a kit for $1600 (that is a $800 profit) instead of the "out in left field" one.

One also has to remember that Archie's kit uses all brand new parts and custom built axles, so that will add to the cost vs going to the scrap yard and buying used parts, hence the higher price. Also any machining that needs to be done, not everyone has a machine shop at thier disposal, so they have to pay to have parts machined/made which adds to the cost.

...there are always a few in every crowd that says it can be done cheaper. Doing it when no one else has done it is what costs the money. How do you think all these "Made in China" parts are so cheap? Not only is it cheaper materials, but they have spent no money on research, it costs nothing to take something apart and copy it.

quote Originally posted by Archie: I've done that. My axles are made so that the face of the transmission needs to be 7.00" to the left of the centerline of the cradle. Archie

Ok Archie, so will your kit work with a 3800 without modification? I would be willing to buy one if they did. bmwguru told me at one point that you might be willing to fab a kit for the 3800 for his swaps, so I figured your current kit wasn't really for that application. Again, I'm willing to buy one if you do. I'd much rather do a 3800 than a V8 at this point.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 10-24-2009).]

If you want a 6 speed right now the ONLY way to go is with Archie's kit. I paid $3K+ for my V8 kit and except for welding the mounts it is a true bolt on. No figuring anything out, no BS. It is well engineered. I'm still waiting for those that say it can be done for $1k to show up. That is why there are so "many" out there that did it themselves. In the meantime I am enjoying my new trany

------------------

Red: TPI V8 + 6-Speed Yellow: Nitrous 3.4 + 4 speed Auto
304rwHP/366rwTQ

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: If you want a 6 speed right now the ONLY way to go is with Archie's kit. I paid $3K+ for my V8 kit and except for welding the mounts it is a true bolt on. No figuring anything out, no BS. It is well engineered. I'm still waiting for those that say it can be done for $1k to show up. That is why there are so "many" out there that did it themselves. In the meantime I am enjoying my new trany

What engine do you have it bolted to?

quote Originally posted by mptighe: What engine do you have it bolted to?

I'm no expert but I would guess it's bolted to a TPI V8 making around 304 rwHP/366 rwTQ

Or I read his signature...

-Brandon

quote Originally posted by cooguyfish: I'm no expert but I would guess it's bolted to a TPI V8 making around 304 rwHP/366 rwTQ Or I read his signature... -Brandon

Sure, if you want to take the HARD way.... I didn't learn wreeding and rhythmatik in skool....

quote Originally posted by cooguyfish: I'm no expert but I would guess it's bolted to a TPI V8 making around 304 rwHP/366 rwTQ Or I read his signature... -Brandon

Correct.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


*IF* you can do it for $800 I am sure everyone else would like to know how - so until you 'actually' do it and have it running you can then sell a kit for $1600 (that is a $800 profit) instead of the "out in left field" one.

[QUOTE]

Like I stated I just might but this will not be until after the new year and once my LS4 is finally done. F355 has pretty much got the parts worked out that are needed so it will be pretty simple. The good thing about using it on a 3800 is not having to use the large spacer in between the flywheel/clutch and the longgg bolts to hold it together. With Spec making a clutch/flwheel that is a direct bolt one it will make things easier.

[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 10-24-2009).]

I am told that F35 Cobalt axle work

quote Originally posted by F355spider: Grand am slave plug to snap into transmission and fit Fiero clutch line.

Can someone tell me what this "slave plug" is?

~Neil

------------------
1988 GT, 5-speed, white, beechwood leather, 3.4 DOHC 6-speed installation in process. Really. I am working on it.

quote The good thing about using it on a 3800 is not having to use the large spacer in between the flywheel/clutch and the longgg bolts to hold it together. With Spec making a clutch/flwheel that is a direct bolt one it will make things easier.

What's this about a large spacer and longgg bolts? Are you telling me that I have longggg bolts and a spacer?

I have a brand new F40 trans for sale in the mall.....L