Hello all,

Well, we have it. We've added Cadillac Seville rear calipers to the Grand Am rotors and have a working ebrake. The ebrake is especially good given that it is intended to hold a 2 ton car. The handle pulls up about 4" until the rears are locked. It releases completely.

The balance is good. On a hard stop going down hill, the front would just barely lock before standstill and the car stopped fast and straight.

DPWood fabbed the brackets to make it happen. He helped me along with PBJ and the setup looks very good.



Snazzy red (a true Fiero colour )



The Brackets slide over the caliper and everything clears nicely. The unit will fit all the Fiero 14" and 15" wheels. (sorry 13"s)

The bleeders are on top, but access is pretty tight. We used a length of surgical tube. On the passenger side, we actually unhooked the top mounting bolt and tilted the caliper forward a bit to get a socket on the bleeder to loosen it up (should 'a loosened it before install) However, it is all correct, clears, and works great.



If anybody wants to do the install, you order the loaded 1985 Cadillac Seville caliper set from Rock Auto, and the bracket from DPWood.

Enjoy

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Price (for adapters)? Or ask DPWood?

This looks like a VERY affordable upgrade. I LIKE it. Looks like it uses the Fiero parking brake cables also?

[This message has been edited by squisher86SE (edited 06-05-2007).]

Yes, it uses the stock Fiero cables. Ask DPWood about the price but I do not expect it to be very expensive. This is a modest upgrade.

Arn

It looks like a great idea, but I wanted to point out 2 things.

#1, it is nearly identical to the LeBaron larger brake rotor upgrade, except you can keep the Vented GrandAm rotors with the 14" stock wheels, and the LeBaron mod will not allow that.

#2. The EBrake cable goes over the top of the axle and the CV Boot, and could be a potential issue with clearances and gravity/whatnot.

Have you considered swapping the calipers from one side to the other to move the E-Brake cable down below the axle?

You may still have a clearance issue, but that can be easily rectified by rotating the adapter bracket down a hair.

That would require a small modification to the design of the bracket, but that can be done easily.

[This message has been edited by Synthesis (edited 06-05-2007).]

Is this a rear brake upgrade for the 84-87 or the 88's. And what is the price for the brackets???

Thank you for your help

Synthesis,

#1 Your point is? By my read, there are a whole lot of Grand Am/Beretta equipped Fiero's out there with no ebrakes and not wanting to put out $1,000+ for bigger wheels and tires just to do the upgrade.

#2 The OE Fiero cable goes over the axle and CV Boot and do we have catastrophic failures of the stock setup due to gravity/whatnot? No. The brake cable is so stiff and bent into position it just doesn't happen.

The clearance is better above the boot. Bleeding with the bleeder on top is much more desirable than having to remove the caliper to bleed. The current configuration places the brake pad perfectly on the rotor. We did not consider dropping the ebrake cable or rotating the adapter bracket. However, you can make one if you like. Maybe you'll come up with the better mousetrap

Arn

Arn, you're the man! I was starting to look for ways to get parking brake functionality with my Grand Am brakes, since I'll be doing an auto-to-manual tranny swap soon.

Can you tell us which year Seville to look for? Thanks!

Great job guys!!! I'm planning a Grand Am swap sometime soon and this'll be just what the doctor ordered

1985, however I think the same holds true for '84 thru '86.

Arn

Are the grand am rotors a direct replacement to the rear or is there more mods done there too? What year Grand-Am rotors do we get?

So you need Grand-Am rotors
Caddy loaded calipers
Bracket from DPWood

Anything else???

Thanks I'm looking forward to better brages on my '86 GT

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: Synthesis, #1 Your point is? By my read, there are a whole lot of Grand Am/Beretta equipped Fiero's out there with no ebrakes and not wanting to put out $1,000+ for bigger wheels and tires just to do the upgrade. #2 The OE Fiero cable goes over the axle and CV Boot and do we have catastrophic failures of the stock setup due to gravity/whatnot? No. The brake cable is so stiff and bent into position it just doesn't happen. The clearance is better above the boot. Bleeding with the bleeder on top is much more desirable than having to remove the caliper to bleed. The current configuration places the brake pad perfectly on the rotor. We did not consider dropping the ebrake cable or rotating the adapter bracket. However, you can make one if you like. Maybe you'll come up with the better mousetrap Arn

Arn, I was only making a statement on what I saw. And I was not putting this down in any way, shape or form. This is a great idea, and I support it fully if it means keeping the safety functionality of the ebrake.

#1. That is very true. My statement was simply that this is similar to the LeBaron upgrade, except that you can use the smaller Grand Am rotors with the stock 14 and 15" wheels and add the vented rotors. It was not an insult to either conversion. Just a statement.

#2. From the view in one of the photos, it looks like the cable is practically resting on the CV boot/axle end. I realize that photos do not give proper depth to a view of items in layers like this. My concern was that it would rub. If there is plenty of clearance, then more power to you.
The pad DOES sit perfectly on the rotor, and it looks like you will get even pressure all the way across.

I realize this thread is about the brake upgrade, but where do you sit with the front brakes now? Which calipers are you using, and have you considered using the Cadillac front caliper from the 85 Seville to match it up on the front?

It was good to see these on the car and working today. As Arn pointed out thare are a couple awkward things about installation. Access to the bleeders is tight but manageable. We found from experience that losening the bleeder screw with a socket before putting the caliper into position will make things much easier. It is just an awkward position with a short 10mm wrench. Can't really apply enough torque if the bleeder is really tight.

This setup actually uses the Caddy right caliper on the left side and the left caliper on the right side. It does put the e-brake cable on the top but The e-brake cable is an armoured cable encased in hard plastic so it isn't likely to droop down and rub the cv boot. It was preferable to do it this way because the bleeder screw is also at the top which makes it a heck of a lot easier to get the air out.

I have had this assembly inside a 14" tech style rim. It fills the space quite nicely and has about 0.100" between the braket and the inside of the rim . I'd have to have a 13" rim to check if there was any possible way to gain the necessary clearance. The steel rims might have an different inside taper. If someone local has one they could loan me for a weekend I can give it a shot to make it fit.

These brackets will work for '84-'87 years with stock rims. I'd need to have access to an '88 to see if a similar adaptation could be made. Again, if anyone wanted to volunteer it would be appreciated.

The anti-rattle clips have been a bugger to find in Canada. No one could find a listing at the parts stores I went to. I found them as part of a hardware kit in the Rockauto website (Raybestos H5522), pics of the loaded calipers they offer appear to have the anti-rattle clips included.

For those interested in purchasing brakets I was just going to charge 50.00 cdn (about 45.00 US) for a pair.

Kudo's go out to Arn for the initial design work and Rubyredfiero for the actual drawings I worked from.

David

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His Fiero: 1984 2M4 Coupe

Her Fiero: 1984 2M4 Convertible

Outstanding work Arns, Rubyredfiero and DPWood

[This message has been edited by jetman (edited 06-05-2007).]

quote Arns85GT said: 1985, however I think the same holds true for '84 thru '86.

I just noticed you specified '85 Seville in your original post... DOH!

YAY! I've been hearing this might be coming - and been quietly waiting. is there a "official" way to get a hold of these? the Mall maybe? what was this piston size of these Cadillac Calipers? same as the Grand Am's? hope so - that would be perfect.

good thing I saved the spring from my prop valve - sounds like it'll be going back in.

in fact - I even have someone who will buy my old calipers

The Caddy piston is 1/8" smaller than the Grand Am piston. This is pretty well perfect because it leaves the front bias without too much bias. My driveway is a long downhill piece. I tried a stop from 60km downhill on the street near me, and no lockup and stopped well. On my driveway, which is alot steeper, I managed to lock up the right front just before it stopped, however, the surface of the driveway also drops off on the right, so I thought that was ok. I have yet to try a high speed stop. All in good time. A hard stop from 60km is a pretty good indicator as it stands.

BTW, the stock GM cables are a bit too tight and I'm working on the aftermarket cables. I'll post what I find. I too want a bit more clearance from the boot, just for comfort. The brackets are concentric so the calipers can be placed upside down if needed. My preference is to have the bleeder up.

Arn

Pyrthian... If you pm me your address I can get a set out to you. I don't have paypal so's we'll have to do the payment thing the old fasioned way.

Arn... It may be possible to alter the e-brake bracket to change the entry angle of the cable. That would raise the position of the cable relative to the cv boot. I could drop by before work tonight or tomorrow and have a look.

David

Does it take a change in the MC or are you able to use the OEM ?
What model of MC would it be?

I have the stock MC and it works well. This is a good discussion thread https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...041015-2-052062.html

If you run a search there are all sorts of discussions on this topic.

What you will want, however, is the Blazer brake booster instead of the Fiero one.

Arn

quote Originally posted by CAB: Does it take a change in the MC or are you able to use the OEM ? What model of MC would it be?

I would think it'll be OK. I have just the Grand Ams up front right now, and I still have plenty of pedal.
tho, I have heard having Grand Ams all around makes for a pretty low pedal - for some - to low, for some - ok. and, the caddy caliper having a slightly smaller piston, should be a little better pedal than Grand Ams all around

Having Grand Ams all way round gives you a very good and firm pedal. I've driven a car with just the Grand Ams up front and I found it a little scary. Of course that car did not have the Blazer booster either.

Pyrthian, you are right, with the Caddy caliper on the back the pedal is very firm.

BTW I'm still working on getting the cable clearance issue fully resolved. I'll keep you posted.

Arn

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: BTW, the stock GM cables are a bit too tight and I'm working on the aftermarket cables. I'll post what I find. I too want a bit more clearance from the boot, just for comfort. The brackets are concentric so the calipers can be placed upside down if needed. My preference is to have the bleeder up. Arn

Arn, try looking at Pontiac 6000 rear cables (1986).(I think thats what I used, it's been a while now & my memory lasts about 15 minutes) I believe they give you about 4>5" more length. I use them on my Koenig! I could see if I can find the part #'s
Sandy

Is the ebrake mechanism like the original Fiero mechanism (where you have to use it regularly to keep the brakes adjusted and to keep it from siezing up)?

I have grand ams on the rear so I'm clearly interested in this. Problem for me is I think my ebrake was cut (not just removed) by the previous owner.. Have to look.

I'm having issues with my brakes at the moment and I can't seem to lock em up when I want to, and as a result things are a little scary

Would putting the blazer brake booster in solve this issue?

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Alex

Back in action

William, we are using Fiero cables and the Fiero adjuster with the Caddy caliper.

FieroMunk, the booster is a huge issue. Do it.

I've been working most of the day on this project and this is where we are at. The aftermarket cables I have seen are SHORTER than the Gm cables.

Cowan the Pontiac 6000 cables sounds like a great idea if they work. Please let me know the part #s if you can

I tried looking at re-routing the cables, the hockey stick bracket, and some other possibilities, but, bottom line is that the stock cables will work but the only issue is the potential for contacting the CV Boot when the suspension compresses.

The Pontiac 6OOO cables may be a help on this.

In the meanwhile, you will notice on the strut (mine are Munroe) there is a tab for attaching whatever. After consulting with PBJ, I went at doing a very rough prototype hanger for the cable. The pic looks yellow due to the sun. I didn't photoshop it out. No rust



You'll notice there is lots of clearance with the boot, and it ain't goin' nowhere.



Of course this isn't the final design, but, it is clear that a hanger can be used to ensure the cable clears the CV Boot and the system works well.

The thought of switching the calipers so the bleeder is at the bottom and the cable at the bottom is something I just don't want to do. Adding a hanger which will cost $2-$3 is pretty much a no-brainer to me. When the guys are through we'll have this thing plug 'n play with no problems and looking way kool.

We'll keep you posted.

Arn

typo

[This message has been edited by Arns85GT (edited 06-09-2007).]

Forgot about checking for part #'s for the 6000 cables, and I'll be away for the W/E. I'll see what I can do... As my rear is 4" per side wider, I DO remember having to cut the cable 'joiner' clip(Fiero's cable joiner clip) in half, then brazing each half clip to a 4 or 5" strip of metal... to elongate things (my car is just under 8 feet in the rear) so I needed even more cable length. I used the standard Fiero front cable with all the Fiero adjustment bracket, it has worked fine for an Ebrake. Side caliper cables still go through the Cradle ends.
Sandy

Elongating the adjuster was one option we looked at to use the hockey stick bracket to use the shorter cable and gain overall length.

As it stands, the OEM cable is working and working well. However, if the Pontiac 6000 cables are better it would be a no brainer to use them. I looked at some aftermarket cables that were actually shorter by 1.75". We can still get factory OE cables from www.Fierodave.com at a reasonable price.

I had some heavy wire on hand so I fabbed up a set of wire braces. I think they look better and they are plenty strong. When you get your parts from RockAuto and DPWood, you'll want to fabricate a couple of braces IMHO.

Here's what I did.



Notice the brace is at an angle and pulls the cable away from the grease boot. If not for the brace it pretty much rests against the grease fitting.



Notice the bleeder nipple in this shot. Like Dave said, it is tight, but manageable, and you don't have to remove the caliper to bleed them



I'm pretty pleased all told. I have good responding brakes, and ebrake to pass safety and park on hills, and it is pretty much a low cost upgrade.

My thanks to Oscar for his expertise, Dave for his fine and creative machining abilities, and as always, PBJ our mentor.

Arn

typo

[This message has been edited by Arns85GT (edited 06-08-2007).]

I like the braket Arn...keeps it simple and functional without additional cost.

David

What I meant when I asked if you have to keep using the ebrake every day to keep the brakes adjusted is: does this caliper have the same internal mechanism as the oem fiero rear brake - the one-way adjustment that moves the piston out toward the rotar when you pull on the ebrake handle? Are mechanisms are the same, or is the caddy mechanism is different, just using the lever from the fiero ebrake for convenience to work some other mechanism.

Thanks.

[This message has been edited by William Federle (edited 06-09-2007).]

The lever moves the piston out toward the disc. If your brakes aren't bled properly the ebrake won't be great either.

The idea to use your ebrake regularly is to keep the cables from seizing up with accumulated rust etc.

The Caddy caliper uses the Fiero cable and functions much the same way.

As I mentioned above, the OE cable is just long enough to do the job. A shorter cable will have a problem. IMHO.

I am still interested in finding another cable just to give the system some slack. Any news on the Pontiac 6000 cable?

Arn

When will you be able to start taking orders for the adapters to make this mod work. Dan

You simply send a PM to DPWood. He is making them and he'll set it up. The brake adapters can be ordered any time. The wire brackets are something guys can make up on their own without much cost. If you need new OEM rear cables, they are available at www.Fierodave.com

We're recommending Rockauto as the most economical source for the calipers. Also, you'll want to order them fully loaded.

Hope this helps.

Arn

This sounds awesome. Will this work real good with Grand Am calipers and rotors on front? Not sure if the Caddy rear calipers are bigger then the Grand Am fronts. But since they are rear calipers they should be smaller I would think.

-Frank

Frank, the Grand Am rotors on the front use Grand Am calipers with a 2" piston

The Caddy Calipers fit the Grand Am rotor like a glove and they have a 1&7/8" piston. That ain't bad. On my car the balance front to back is good with the new setup.

Hope this helps

Arn

Thank you Arns85GT. That is the answer I was looking for. I was planning on doing the Grand Am conversion in the front. But wasen't gonna do the backs because I need a e-brake here in NY to pass inspection. I will definently be picking up I set of these brackets in the near future. Thank you.

-Frank

For the guys who don't have an ebrake, it's kind of funny, now that I have one I actually use it. It's kind of handy for parking. Go fig...

DPWood was over to the house last night and he has the gigs [jigs] made up to produce the brackets quickly. He's filling orders. You can expect something in the Mall in due course.

Cheers,

Arn

[This message has been edited by Arns85GT (edited 06-12-2007).]

Those would be jigs.......Bands and computer guys have gigs....J/K

The bracket is first laser cut to the outside shape. I can then weld in the caliper mounting bosses and use the mill to locate the threaded holes very precisely and, most importantly, square to the slider bolts.....so the caliper doesn't bind.

I'll drop by tonight with a spare e-brake cable to see if we can sort out an alternative.

David

ROCK ON !!!

When you start production, let me know where to send the money!