As it says... I would like your opinion on an idea I have. I did not set out to build a knock off of the Ferrari 308(I just like the body design), so I am thinking of changing a few things around. I am not pleased with the vents on the rear deck lid. If I happen to get caught in the rain, my whole engine will get soaked and cause who knows what kind of problems. Below is an attempt at trying to convey my image of what I would like to do. Instead of having the grill work, I would mold functional scoops over the openings, which would prevent water from entering my engine compartment. Please look at the pictures and tell me what you think. By the way the car is going to be painted black on black. Thank you for your time . BEFORE AFTER
Ya that photoshopped one looks much nicer than the regular vents. I know you wanted to put the scoops at the sides in place of the vents, but wonder if it'd look nice just one scoop in the middle like Tina's.
Look sweet! Give them a try. Don't forget the pics when you're done. I agree with Jstricker, maybe a little longer or beveled towards the front of the car.
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[This message has been edited by 1MohrFiero (edited 03-06-2004).]
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08:28 AM
Wholf Member
Posts: 379 From: Cleburne, Texas Registered: Mar 2003
Thanks guys.. I used Corel Photo Paint to do it(I haven't learned PhotoShop yet), and everyone of you were right. I do want them a bit taller, and little further back. Maybe with about an inch up before the opening actually occurs. If you notice the grill and the way it is shaped, I thought it would be neat to put a third brake light in the middle. Ponitac Boi, I had thought about a single scoop, but I don't think it would flow as good with the body lines. If I could PS worth a crap, I would try to convey the idea I have for the side louvers. Instead of the louvers I was thinking some scoops there also. Sort of like scoops on a GT40, but not as protruding, and following the flow of the car. As soon as I get her back from the upholstery shop I am going to get some foam and start shaping some scoops to see how it would actually look. I will take plenty of photos and do a post out here with the progress. Thanks again...
Third brake light......................nah, put it in the rear window kind of like the factory did it. I think if you try to blend it in there it's going to lose some of it's sex appeal. Bulges running fore and aft on the car = POWER to the mind's eye.
"Maybe with about an inch up before the opening actually occurs. " Bigger Bulge = MORE POWER! (Up to a point, you can go to far pretty easily)
I still really like it. Make your changes subtle enough that nobody can figure out exactly what you did but bold enough that they all come up and ask exactly what you did.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by Wholf:
Thanks guys.. I used Corel Photo Paint to do it(I haven't learned PhotoShop yet), and everyone of you were right. I do want them a bit taller, and little further back. Maybe with about an inch up before the opening actually occurs. If you notice the grill and the way it is shaped, I thought it would be neat to put a third brake light in the middle. Ponitac Boi, I had thought about a single scoop, but I don't think it would flow as good with the body lines. If I could PS worth a crap, I would try to convey the idea I have for the side louvers. Instead of the louvers I was thinking some scoops there also. Sort of like scoops on a GT40, but not as protruding, and following the flow of the car. As soon as I get her back from the upholstery shop I am going to get some foam and start shaping some scoops to see how it would actually look. I will take plenty of photos and do a post out here with the progress. Thanks again...
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09:37 AM
PFF
System Bot
Wholf Member
Posts: 379 From: Cleburne, Texas Registered: Mar 2003
Granted that it's 0630, but after taking a quick look at the rear decklid < original > , and looking at the new scoops, I thought that you already had it available, and had just installed it onto the car asking for opinions!
Corel Photo Paint Skills = New Vents on the car =
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10:00 AM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
I'm not crazy about it personally. I removed the lower baffles on the vents of my GT and have never had a problem. But then again, those vents were not directly over the engine so I can see your concerns. On my Indy, after a rain, the engine "steams" for a couple of minutes. Have you considered water baffles underneath as an option?
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10:33 AM
ca_xtreme Member
Posts: 536 From: vacaville, ca Registered: Aug 2003
i somewhat have the same problem since i have a 84decklid on my v6....when it rains i just have a piece of cardboard i put on top of the engine wipe the engine bay off then take the cardboard off actually when driving even if its pouring the back decklid stays dry since there is a low pressure area there....granted your moving......
------------------ no, i dont race anything that has more cubic inches in the exhaust tip then the engine!
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12:27 PM
Tina Member
Posts: 2858 From: At an elevation of 8564 feet. Registered: Nov 2000
Those vents + a pair of 5-6" fans would be awesome. I vote yay.
Fans would be good, and I also have about a 1 1/2" gap between the hood and rear window. I figure the openings on the scoops would be at least 8-10" across on each side, and at least 2-3" wide for the opening.
Just use the Fiero Stores deck vent. Cut it in-half and mold a side piece for each opposite side. Copy the original side scoops that you have, and try to shape to look all the same and also elongate the tips to copy the body lines where the roof top slopes down towards the rear clip.
This is what I had done to my car, but I use the Firebird vent incerts.
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08:18 PM
Wholf Member
Posts: 379 From: Cleburne, Texas Registered: Mar 2003
Just use the Fiero Stores deck vent. Cut it in-half and mold a side piece for each opposite side. Copy the original side scoops that you have, and try to shape to look all the same and also elongate the tips to copy the body lines where the roof top slopes down towards the rear clip.
This is what I had done to my car, but I use the Firebird vent incerts.
Madcurl, are you talking about the side louvers on my car, and making a mold off of them? If so, that is what I intended to do so I could switch back if I needed too. I can't exactly picture the rest though. Do you have any pictures of these inserts on your car??
I like the vents but I also think it's a good idea to keep the engine dry. How about a compromise? There are vents from a 3rd generation Camero Iroc that look pretty good.
I'm not sure, but I think they may be flat enough to bond onto the top of the scoops. That would give you the look of the vents and the function of the vents. Just an idea.
John
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10:49 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
I removed the underside of the vents on my coupe and I can tell you what happens in a heavy rain...your belt will start slipping and you will lose power. I am going back to standard vents, I don't like the look of the open vents anyway.
PS Wholf, are you coming to Round-up VIII in San Antonio?
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11:07 PM
GTFiero1 Member
Posts: 6508 From: Camden County NJ Registered: Sep 2001
i somewhat have the same problem since i have a 84decklid on my v6....when it rains i just have a piece of cardboard i put on top of the engine wipe the engine bay off then take the cardboard off actually when driving even if its pouring the back decklid stays dry since there is a low pressure area there....granted your moving......
then i think your declid is missing something. an 84 ive seen at a used car dealer and one at a junk yard had a plate under the grill that blocked water from getting on the engine and only left about a 2 inch opening across the back of the vent over the exhaust manifold to release heat
------------------ + a silver 85 2M4 *RIP gold 87 2M4* --Adam-- IM AOL: FieroGT5speed
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11:17 PM
Mar 7th, 2004
Wholf Member
Posts: 379 From: Cleburne, Texas Registered: Mar 2003
Hey John, What happened to your other user name?? I was thinking about changing mine, but decided against it. I will have to give your idea some thought.
Jscott, I am hopeing to try and make it down there... I guess it all depends on how progress on my car goes. I take it you are going
Originally posted by Wholf: Jscott, I... I take it you are going
I have every intention of going but none of my Fieros are currently on the road. I'm trying to finish up my GT, ( I swore it wouldn't leave the garage until the firebird interior was 100% done) and then I wrecked my coupe. It's taking all my time and energy to get my daily driver back on the road. It's always something I tell you.
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12:32 AM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
Madcurl, are you talking about the side louvers on my car, and making a mold off of them? If so, that is what I intended to do so I could switch back if I needed too. I can't exactly picture the rest though. Do you have any pictures of these inserts on your car??
Yeah, thats what I'm talking about. It will look different...but nice IMO. My only pics are posted on N* thread and Fiero redux.
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12:39 AM
Wholf Member
Posts: 379 From: Cleburne, Texas Registered: Mar 2003
I have every intention of going but none of my Fieros are currently on the road. I'm trying to finish up my GT, ( I swore it wouldn't leave the garage until the firebird interior was 100% done) and then I wrecked my coupe. It's taking all my time and energy to get my daily driver back on the road. It's always something I tell you.
Sorry to hear you wrecked one of your cars, and I hope everything works out for you. You are still planning on WheatStock aren't you? My car has been in the upholstery shop for the last two weeks, and God only knows when I will get it back. When he finishes the door panels, I have some other work I want him to do. I will post pictures when I get her back.
Luckily the wreck of my coupe was a low speed crash, but still the whole front end sustained heavy damage. Not content to simply rebuilt it I am incorporating upgrades which is taking longer than it should.
And my GT door panels are taking a lot of work to get them decent looking, although to look perfect I think they would need to be upholstered. If I ever get the car on the road I'll take it to some custom shops in the area and see if they are interested in covering them. I talked to a guy locally who upholsters dashes and door panels for Lambo conversions. He's supposed to be really good but without seeing my car he wouldn't make any promises. I'm really anxious to see how yours turned out, that will give me motivation to turn my car over to a professional to get the professional look.
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01:22 AM
Wholf Member
Posts: 379 From: Cleburne, Texas Registered: Mar 2003
Yeah, thats what I'm talking about. It will look different...but nice IMO. My only pics are posted on N* thread and Fiero redux.
Ok, after looking at your threads I am really going to have to do something. I just want to make sure it doesn't look gawdy. If I can make it flow as good as you did yours, it will look sweeeet! On another note.... Dude you really need to get a real camera ,and use the phone as a phone . Thanks for the pointers...
And my GT door panels are taking a lot of work to get them decent looking, although to look perfect I think they would need to be upholstered. If I ever get the car on the road I'll take it to some custom shops in the area and see if they are interested in covering them. I talked to a guy locally who upholsters dashes and door panels for Lambo conversions. He's supposed to be really good but without seeing my car he wouldn't make any promises. I'm really anxious to see how yours turned out, that will give me motivation to turn my car over to a professional to get the professional look.
Ditto... I am keeping my fingers crossed that they turn out as good as he said they will. Sounds like you have found a place to get them done. If he can do Lambo doors then he should be able to do yours. I am having my door panels completely covered, to include all of the plastic. I am hopeing for that nice comfy feeling when it is done. I need to get the interior finished so I can finish the rest of the body work done, and the engine detail work done. It will be interesting when we finally get to hook up and check each others interiors out... Keep me posted on your progress.
Actually, are those gonna be able to get rid of enough heat from the engine compartment? I mean, they look GREAT, but it's all gonna be for naught if your engine overheats... I'd personally rather have a wet engine than a seized one.
And as far as these 'vents' go, , I believe they weren't actually vents, but molded plastic inserts that just resembled vents... no openings. (I could be remembering incorrectly, though.)
------------------ Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com -- 1988 Red Fiero Formula - 1st Place - Stock Coupe - FOCOSEVA 2000 - 3rd Place - Stock Formula - FOCOA Nat'l 2001 - Class Winner - 1982 to Present - Tarheel Tigers All-Pontiac Show 2001 - Class Winner - Fiero: All Years - Tarheel Tigers All-Pontiac Show 2002 - Class Winner - Fiero: All Years - Tarheel Tigers All-Pontiac Show 2003 (working on an Automoda convertible conversion...)
[This message has been edited by LZeitgeist (edited 03-07-2004).]
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07:52 AM
YellowArtero Member
Posts: 256 From: Belle River, Ontario Canada Registered: Mar 2004
I ment that the fake louvers could be bonded on top of the open scoops. The cooling would come from the scoops and the fake louvers give more of the original louvered style look.
Harold: Nobody could remember the last one. For my new thread about the 3.4TDC swap, I decided to change.
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09:56 AM
Wholf Member
Posts: 379 From: Cleburne, Texas Registered: Mar 2003
I ment that the fake louvers could be bonded on top of the open scoops. The cooling would come from the scoops and the fake louvers give more of the original louvered style look.
Harold: Nobody could remember the last one. For my new thread about the 3.4TDC swap, I decided to change.
LZeitgeist, I know that there is a lot of heat put out by the 3800SC under the hood. But there is also quite a bit of room between the engine and the top of the deck lid. I would hope with the opening between the rear of the deck lid, and with the scoop openings, that there would be enough breathing room. Once I get it back from the shop I am really going to have to look at it closely.
John, I knew what you meant about using the louvers. The only problem is I don't have a whole lot of rear window as it is(you know what I am talking about). So any additional height would have to be used as operational room only. I could also put some vents/openings on the outside edge of the scoops. That should be more then adequate for venting heat.
Just a silly question (maybe) ... but will scoops actually increase the air flow or stop it? I was playing around with the flows of vents and scoops. I attached some paper strips to the vents of my old '84. They indicated that the air flow was coming up through the vents at idle. When driving, the paper was sucked in indicating that the air flow underneath was sucking air down through the vents to cool the engine compartment. Reverse scoops use backpressure to force air into the engine. This effect changes depending on the location of the scoop to the windshield. With our cars, the design of the back end changes the flow of air. Question ... will the turbulence at the back of the car (and the shape of the scoop) create a negative pressure zone and try to pull air out the top of the engine compartment while the air flow underneath is trying to pull it out the bottom? Wouldn't that cause a cancelling of the flow and actually increase the engine temperature? I know when I played around with the vents and scoops on the Artero (they have a lot) more air flow wasn't really an advantage. I believe I had two different forces acting on the air flow. I'm not an expert but it is something to think about.
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12:35 PM
Wholf Member
Posts: 379 From: Cleburne, Texas Registered: Mar 2003
John, If the test you did showed air venting out of the scoops at idle, then that is what I am looking for. I am sure everyone here relizes that when you are stuck in traffic at idle, is when you have the most concern about heat building up in the engine compartment. I am figuring the cooling system and just going down the road will take care of everything else. I am also thinking about doing something to my side louvers that would make them functional(more scoops). They vent straight into the engine compartment, and if I opened these up, they should lay all concerns to rest. There was also the mention of mounting fans under the scoops to force air out, which is very possible with the room I have.
I am using 6 small computer fans ( controled by toggle switch) that I placed inside my "stang" scoop on the rear. Works very well, yet nobody knows there are there See ya in San Antonio!!
Oh and is that smoke coming from the car!!!! ha ha
Oh and is that smoke coming from the car!!!! ha ha
Nope... As you know, it will actually get cold sometimes here in Texas. I think It was like 34 degrees when I rolled her out of the garage that day to take the picture. Still hopeing for the SA round up, but she will still be primer colored............
I am also thinking about doing something to my side louvers that would make them functional(more scoops). They vent straight into the engine compartment, and if I opened these up, they should lay all concerns to rest.
Just a little food for thought. I have been contemplating something simular, the hurdle for me with this is, venting unfiltered (dirty) air into the engine compartment. (So, ..I am a clean freak) Yes you could somehow manage to get a filter to cover the area of the side scoops where the air enters, but how much would said filter reduce the air flow?
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ha ha 
