I need help everyone. Kids around here are arguing that the MR2 is better then the Fiero. I know that this isnt true, but i want to prove it. I have a stock 87 GT thats in the process of a V8 conversion. I races this guy with an MR2 that has a bunch of mods(turbo, intercooler, cams, pulleys, heads, exhaust, cool air). What can i say to defend myself? i dont want to tell anyone about the V8. i want them to find out for themselves when i let loose on them after i get it back. i dont want them to know what hit em. so till then, what do i say? ive already tried the "hes got more s*it under his decklid then i do" route, and they dont care. we dont have classes here, its car vs car, period. what do i do?

thanks
chris

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There's no replacement for displacement

arguing with ppl is stupid. stupid ppl never change their mind.

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Ray - rturner@fierosite.com - http://www.fierosite.com/
1988 Stage 2 Aero Coupe - 1985 Mustang 3.8 Convertable

Use the search button at the top of the screen, this subject has been beaten to death. Early MR2s are comparable to fieros, but later generation MR2s are much faster and handle better than a stock fiero. A V-8 will give you better acceleration but around a track I'd have to go with the MR2, there stupid fast on a track.

My $0.02

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86 GT 4 speed 125,000Km

You might be in for a surprise! If he's high tech and has programmable engine/turbo management (ie laptop with link) , then you could be in a lot of trouble. You better do some research on anyone you plan to run, if you don't want to eat crow!

Am MR2 can be made faster with much less money than a V8 swap. The 1st gen ones were very light and if supercharged, they can be made really quick. 2nd gen ones, if done up right can put a V8 fiero in its place. But this is still a Fiero forum so I'm thinking other opinions will prevail.

chi chi.. weren't you the guy who was on the mr2 forum bashing fieros?

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Ray - rturner@fierosite.com - http://www.fierosite.com/
1988 Stage 2 Aero Coupe - 1985 Mustang 3.8 Convertable

Bashing Fieros?
I was on that forum and I asked about the good points of MR2's, I said I had owned two Fieros so I know their weaknesses and I listed them. I doubt I would be on PFF much if I liked to bash Fieros.

Well, i know he doest have engine management. This guy has a real nice MR2. the only rice thing he has on it is a new front facia, and i respect him for that. this other guy that goes to my school has the typical rice mods (euro lights, loud muffler, cold air, 17" wheels and z tires). im sure a carbed 383 V8 can handle the second. and with a little work, handle the first.

Maybe I'm too old and totally "out of it" but I don't see what the big deal is.

When someone says "My car is faster than your car is!", Smile at him as if he has grown a second set of ears, shrug and say "if you say so" and walk away.

HIS ego will drive him crazy trying to figure out why you are so calm and unconcerned about it.

When he says "yeah! Race me!"

say "Why is it worth my gas? I've already agreed that you believe your car is faster." ... Make sure you smile with a superior attitude.

He may not show it, but this is GUARANTEED to drive him nuts!!!

And everyone else will think that you have him SO FAR OUTCLASSED that you "know" it "is not worth your gas to prove it".

Why? Because it really doesn't matter and do you really want to abuse your car by racing it?

Just call them sensible little cars and agree. I agree with Tryxalon. I just go with it and smile. If they press it I just look perplexed.

Silence is golden....

However, I do like the second gen MR2's but I don't fit. Not much to argue with there.

the cars are more alike then different
however the thing that makes the MR2 great is the lotus designed suspension
the thing that makes the fiero kinda crappy is the chevette suspension
some of the MR2 blocks also featured some special type of alloy,(the name slipped my mind) whick allowed for some good boost
however, i feel there is no replacement for displacement; a well tuned v8 fiero should be able to smoke a tiny 1.6 MR2 any day
but i'm an american car fan, so maybe i'm being a little biased

quote Originally posted by Don_Chi_Chi: Bashing Fieros? I was on that forum and I asked about the good points of MR2's, I said I had owned two Fieros so I know their weaknesses and I listed them. I doubt I would be on PFF much if I liked to bash Fieros.

This is one annoying mufuka.

quote Originally posted by Hairy_Fiero: This is one annoying mufuka.

If you say so, Jerky

Man, I love the second gen. MR2! I think they're gorgeous and move pretty nicely too. I would love to have seen how the next gen. Fiero stacked up against them.

Incidentally, anybody know how the '88 Fiero handles in comparison to the MR2?

Second gen? Cause if so, then it might beat you even with a v8..

quote Originally posted by Don_Chi_Chi: If you say so, Jerky

you wannabe

quote Originally posted by l_bilyk: ... the thing that makes the fiero kinda crappy is the chevette suspension ...

Why? Because it is a suspension that uses the same parts as the Chevette or because there is a serious problem with the front suspension on a Fiero?

Perhaps because the listener thinks "Lotus" sounds better than "Chevy"?

I have driven Lotus. Nice cars.
I am told that the Elise front suspension is based on the Vauxhall Astra front suspension which is the same as the one used on the 1971 through 1979 Opel Manta (or 1900) suspension which is the design used as the source for the design of the Chevette front suspension.

But then, I can't remember the source and whether I trusted them to be telling me the truth. AND that is a very long chain and is neither verifable or of any serious regard.

Has your Fiero failed to negotiate turns because of design flaws in the front suspension?

Would you define what "crappy" means in this usage and why?

Does anybody realize that the MR2 suspension was designed from the left over Toyota parts bin? The MR2 has a Tercel suspension...

As far as performance, I have driven a 2nd gen MR2 on several occasions. It feels tighter than my GT and doesn't seem to lose it's stance over bumps. Now mind you, this MR2 only had half the mileage as my fiero.
As far as excelleration, my GT is far faster. In fact, I've posted much quicker times than the first gen supercharged MR2 and my GT was completely stock at the time. This may be attributed to the more confident shifting feel of the fiero. The 2nd gen turbos "might" be a little quicker.

Would love to pull up beside one at a set of lights...

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Silver 86 GT
no truck, no trailer, no spray!

The VERY BEST MODIFICATION you can make for a car is getting a good driver.

Now if you want to have fun, take a modded MR2 and put it upagainst an 88GT with an Archie LS1/6 kit, and Held Suspension. That would be a contest.

quote Originally posted by banditbalz: As far as performance, I have driven a 2nd gen MR2 on several occasions. It feels tighter than my GT and doesn't seem to lose it's stance over bumps. Now mind you, this MR2 only had half the mileage as my fiero. As far as excelleration, my GT is far faster. In fact, I've posted much quicker times than the first gen supercharged MR2 and my GT was completely stock at the time. This may be attributed to the more confident shifting feel of the fiero. The 2nd gen turbos "might" be a little quicker. Would love to pull up beside one at a set of lights...

Well, i do consider myself a very good driver, but nothing like banditbalz. he is amazing when it comes to fieros, he shut down a late model integra R. that was very impressive. if he can handle a blown MR2 with a stock GT, im sure a V8 powered GT can tear up a TT 2nd gen MR2. At least i hope so. But this fool at my school (hmm... kinda catchy) has a non-turbo 2nd gen MR2. I could probably handle him if my engine was running. Ah *if*. oh well. the V8 will only finish where my old V8 left off. I also like the approach of just keeping quiet. i gotta try that.

thanks guys, this is some funny stuff, keep it comming.

thanks
chris

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There's no replacement for displacement

quote Originally posted by LT1Fiero04: Well, i do consider myself a very good driver, but nothing like banditbalz. he is amazing when it comes to fieros, he shut down a late model integra R. that was very impressive. if he can handle a blown MR2 with a stock GT, im sure a V8 powered GT can tear up a TT 2nd gen MR2. At least i hope so. But this fool at my school (hmm... kinda catchy) has a non-turbo 2nd gen MR2. I could probably handle him if my engine was running. Ah *if*. oh well. the V8 will only finish where my old V8 left off. I also like the approach of just keeping quiet. i gotta try that. thanks guys, this is some funny stuff, keep it comming. thanks chris

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.....did you say he had a NON-turbo......HAHAHAHAHAHA, thats a joke!!!

Just laugh in his face, and tell him that if hes so sure, he wouldnt mind throwin a $100 on it. HAHAHAHA....NON-turbo....no competition!

Personally, I DO like the 2gen MR2s, but they are UGLY!!! Thier all bubbly looking, the ass end looks disgusting, defenatly NOT my style.I must say though, my friend HAD a 91MR2 turbo with twin entry, exhaust, boost controller and Konig Tantrums.....that thing WAS pretty quick....

Sorry, but I have to say this...People say, "Well the MR2(turbo) has 200hp and the Fiero only has 140hp...and its a V6"...I just hate it when they say that. Little do they realize that thier car is TURBOCHARGED and mine isnt. So if mine WAS turbo'ed, thats a different story.
I usually end up telling them that and say "Plus, for a turbocharged engine and only having 200hp, I would say that YOUR engine has the lack of HP"....they dont know what to say!

[This message has been edited by FieroGTTurbo (edited 05-13-2002).]

quote Originally posted by FieroGTTurbo: ...twin entry...

Huh, huuuuhhhh.... you said...

Best!
Ben

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

I cant wait to go into school tommorow (well, today since its 1:50 am). This is gonna be so funny. i really cant wait to see the looks on all their faces when i leave them behind at the races when i get my V8. now all i need to do is save up for a blower. oh well, i have 5 hrs of sleep left...

later
chris

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There's no replacement for displacement

quote Originally posted by artherd: Huh, huuuuhhhh.... you said... Best! Ben

Yep, twin entry....for the turbo. He has an aftermarket scoop, it comes up and curves over the roof. So he has that AND the factory inlet going into the turbo so it breathes better, hence the name "twin entry". Its pretty cool.

[This message has been edited by FieroGTTurbo (edited 05-13-2002).]

I still don't understand why people insist on comparing a Fiero to a car that has had 15 years extra to develop.

Of course the current MR2s are better than a stock Fiero. Any car built today is (in many ways) better than a Fiero. But that's not the point. We drive Fieros because it was a marvel in its time. Because it still looks great for a 15 year old car. Because the fun-factor is very high. And because the Fiero has character.

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: I still don't understand why people insist on comparing a Fiero to a car that has had 15 years extra to develop. Of course the current MR2s are better than a stock Fiero. [b]Any car built today is (in many ways) better than a Fiero. But that's not the point. We drive Fieros because it was a marvel in its time. Because it still looks great for a 15 year old car. Because the fun-factor is very high. And because the Fiero has character.[/B]

Woohoo right on!

if you want to find out just go ahead and do it.. when I first got the car I had doubts a lot of time, but it has surprised me many times too.

Yeah I could go get a firebird w/ an SC and be happy w/ speed, but I like the fiero to much no one has them like firebirds or I would imagine MR2's? makes it more fun knowing your about the only one in your city w/ a nice fiero

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-KC

LoW Key's Red Bullet
1988 Formula, 5spd, 3.4 75 NX
Ported exhaust manifolds, tb, plenum, underdrive pulley and adjustable fuel regulator

Yeah it may be a fifteen year old car but when you put a v8 in it, well it tends to do a lot of catching up in the acceleration department!

I wish I could get my hands on some pictures or drawings of the plans for like 1992 fieros or something, im not really sure which direction they could move in as far as the body design goes.

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GheTTo

Boy you people must really have issues, your comparing a N/A 5.7 L V-fu*king-8 to a turbo charged 2.0 L 4 cylinder???

You want an even match... why not compare a Iron Puke turbo charged. Granted there are hard to find turbo charged dukes but they exist none the less.

And the Duke should have the advantage... .5 more liters than the MR2 engine.

<sarcasm>Push-Rod forever..!!!11!!!1 </sarcasm>

[This message has been edited by Jaei Sun (edited 05-15-2002).]

Well let's just take a minute and use GM's history and see what the Fiero could have become.

Odds are in the 89-94 years it would have gotten the 3.1L engine. Possibly the GT or a special edition like the 10th anniversary Fiero in 1994, would have received the 3.4DOHC engine. I would bet if the 3.4DOHC was installed, it would have blown away the MR2 turbo (more HP and torque in a car that weighs close to the same) If the Fiero was still made today, (2002) The engine would most likely be the 3.4L with the "ram air" version being the top. I really don't think GM would have put in a 3800SC or a V-8 given GM's past history. They tend to keep the cars with mid-scale performance except for their "flagship" cars. (the Trans Am, Camaro, Vette, Etc) I don't think the Fiero would have ever made it to "flagship" status.
Given the improvements to the Sunfire's and Grand Am's it is likely the suspension would have improved and the brakes would have improved.

The above is just my opinion but it's probably very close to what could have happened.

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Happiness isn't around the corner...
Happiness IS the corner.

MR2's had a better parts bin to borrow from. Better suspension designs.

Albeit the Mk1's were ugly ducklings , but anyone who has driven one knows it's a very well balanced car. The Mk2 Turbo's are a different breeed , they still dominate SCCA autocrosses , they are a bit heavier I believe , but a very capable car.

2 different concepts in Car designs. Cars have been and always will be sold on the basis of Visual Passion in North America. The Mk1-2 Mr2's may handle better than a Fiero , But they don't have the sound or looks of a Fiero GT.

A good example of this concept is the PT Crusier , using mostly parts bin components , lack lustre suspension and engine it still sells like hotcakes.

Japanese cars sell based on Technology , North American cars sell on looks. How else could you justify a Viper , Horrible technology. 8 ltrs and 450 HP in the present version equates to 56hp per litre. In comparison a Fiero produces 50hp per litre (v6)

The Fiero lends itself far better to Hotrodding. You can't even get poly bushings for a MK1 Mr2.

M.

You can't just extrapolate what a car would be in a few years! Thats like saying my 67 mustang had a 289 to begin with, but then they got 390, and a 429, so by now they would have had at least 10 litres...

fieros are way the mr 2's!!!!!!!! fieros were way better the mr 2's when the fieros were still being made. mr 2 back then were nice but it didnt stand a chance against fieros!!!! I would have to go with fieros!!!! FIEROS ARE NUMBER 1!!

johnnyK, now now...Oreif made several scenarios about a car that is no longer in production. You on the other hand compared it to a car that is currenly in production. Therefore, we know the outcome of the Mustang. I do not see the point you are making here.

This is called "Bench Racing", and has been around for decades, it's a no win issue. The only way to settle a dispute like this is for both parties to race and see what happens. Unfortunately, your car is not completed, and until it is you will have to put up with it. Say nothing, and continue to focus your energy on completing your car. Take your car to the track, collect your timeslip, and the next time someone dogs your car present your timeslip and ask them where there is.

My roommate has a 1st gen MR2, I can bike faster than it. I think it's fun to drive, but its really slow. A asian guy I work with has a 2nd gen and he thinks my fiero might be faster just cause it has a 6cyl. But That 2nd gen MR2 is a lot lighter and that 4 cyl he has is a lot more advanced than my old V6.
I bet that a stock 2nd gen MR2 is a little quicker. Put a turbo in it, a V8 pull him off the line but once that turbo spools up, damn, it'd be damn close.

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Rick D

86GT
84COUP

http://home.attbi.com/~dslize

Another MR2 thread

Line up the cars and race. If you are faster shake his hand afterwards and say nice race. Then you can talk shop with him about your engine swap, and maybe pick up a thing or two from his turbo mods. If he wins, shake his hand and say congrats. Again see what he's got and get back to work trying to get more performance out of your car.

Talk is cheap... just line up and race.

ok for the record, the MR2 used corolla parts not tercel parts... and yes, there is a HUGE difference
The old 4A-GE corollas are an amazing car, even by todays standards
and speaking of the 4A-GE... it was a million times better than the iron duke! (No offense duke owners) but that is among one of the worst engines GM ever made, way down there with ford's HSC
At the time the 4A was revolutionary! A high-revving, smooth, dual overhead cam engine is something you find in a 2000 model car, and toyota had it in the early 80s. That same engine was the first engine to recieve 5 valves a cylinder back in 91... don't even get me started on the twincharged 1.8s..
Anyways, coming from someone who has driven both cars (albeit both 4 bangers), i would pick an MR2 over a duke fiero any day, not sure whether i would pick the GT or the MR2 SC, and i don't think a second generation MR2 vs. a Fiero is a fair math. However, in a drag race, i would put my money on a V8 fiero (as long as the V8 isn't one of those crumby lead impregnated V8 smog engines GM made in the 80s)

...just my $0.02.. which is like 10 bux candian

ALright alright.. Lets examine this scenario then. DeLorean (best car ever) came witha 2.8.. 130 horsepower.. nothing special, but then there was the twin turbo option (no, it never got produced).. So we can only "assume" that it would have got a v8, and so on and so on..