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Temp gauge or overheating????Please help! by bk2futr
Started on: 04-10-2013 07:28 AM
Replies: 10
Last post by: bk2futr on 04-14-2013 08:21 PM
bk2futr
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Report this Post04-10-2013 07:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bk2futrSend a Private Message to bk2futrDirect Link to This Post
Hi All

I just got an 88 Fiero GT T top with 52000 Miles...I bought it in the winter and it seemed to run OK but was in need of a tune up. So I bought it and straight to the paint shop it went.
There was a few dull spots on the top so I wanted it fixed before Spring so I could do the tune up, etc once I got it home.

Well I am unsure about the temp sender going to the gauge. I replaced it because when I had the car idling for a while (1/2 hour-50 degrees outside)the red light was flickering when the temp gauge was only reading about half on the gauge. The car did not seem "hot" as I didn't smell any coolant, hear bubbling, etc. but I shut it down and let it cool for a while just to be sure.
Well I replaced the gauge sensor and now it is almost going into the red while idling only after 10 minutes! I used just a little "loctite 592" thread sealant (on the last couple outer threads) only on the sensor (after I installed once with thread tape then read on here not to do that).
I really don't think it could be really that hot unless I suddenly lost my water pump or something. Now I checked the temp at some different spots with an infrared thermometer and at the base of the temp gauge sender I am getting 180 F and at the rad cap about 130 f and about 150 f at the hose going into the thermostat housing.
all the while the temp gauge itself was reading near the red.
I am still leary of letting it run so I kept shutting it down just in case.

So my questions are

1. shouldn't the idiot light come on as well if the gauge is reading this high? I know it works because like I said earlier it was flickering a couple weeks ago and it lights up when turning the key on.

2. Shouldn't the fan be kicking on as well if the coolant temp was really this high inside the engine? I know that sensor works as well because the fan was kicking on a couple weeks ago as well.

3. shouldn't the infrared sensor be reading higher if the coolant was really this high on the other side of that sending unit?

4. Could I have gotten air into the system changing the temp sensor (twice) and the thermostat? I did have a hell of a time getting the temp sensor screwed back in for some reason...I couldn't get the right angle!

The coolant tubes going the length of the car were still cold as well as the coolant in the rad and the overflow bottle. The thermostat is new (180) and the hose was hot (150) going into the thermostat housing. The hose above the thermostat being hot made me think that maybe the waterpump is not pumping enough coolant in and there was actually hot coolant making its way backwards into the hose? Is this possibe?

I should also mention the car is really running like crap (very rich and hard to give it throttle) when it warms up and I am assuming it is the CTS sensor (already ordered one) because I checked codes and I am getting a code 15. Unless it is really the engine that is this hot but I figured it would just shut down? Or at least the fan would kick on trying to get the coolant temp down.

No white smoke and no milky oil. coolant looks good and green.

Any help would be greatly appreciated ....Thanks

[This message has been edited by bk2futr (edited 04-10-2013).]

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olejoedad
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Report this Post04-10-2013 08:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadDirect Link to This Post
The ECM gets a temp signal. Does your scan tool allow you to access that parameter?
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bk2futr
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Report this Post04-10-2013 08:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bk2futrSend a Private Message to bk2futrDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

The ECM gets a temp signal. Does your scan tool allow you to access that parameter?


I don't have a scan tool. I just used an infrared temp thermometer (laser) and shot it at those couple locations just to see if the engine itself was hot....
Thanks for the reply
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DimeMachine
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Report this Post04-10-2013 08:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DimeMachineSend a Private Message to DimeMachineDirect Link to This Post
get a food thermometer and a kettle of hot water. heat until the food thermometer reads 180. Pull the hot water to the other side of the stove. Check the temp of the side of the kettle with your temp gun. If it reads 180 +or- 10 degrees, I would trust it and blame the gauge-sending unit. If it reads 140, then you car is really overheating.

Let us know what you find.

------------------
84 Formula Clone, 3800SC, VS Cam, 3.2 Pulley, 4T65E-HD, HP Tuners, AEM Wideband, , Regal GS Gauges, S-10 Brake Booster. 12.53 at 106.5 1/4 mile

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Joseph Upson
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Report this Post04-10-2013 09:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
Make sure your cooling fan works by turning on the A/C if it's charged. I believe it unusual to have an errant hot light and temp gauge at the same time as the sensor is two in one, half of it is for the gauge and the other for the hot light. You also need to make sure your coolant is flowing and at initial startup you might be able to get by with letting it idle with the stat removed and the rear filler cap off without loosing much if any coolant. With mileage that low over 20+ years you want to make sure there is no blockage in your radiator.
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bk2futr
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Report this Post04-10-2013 09:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bk2futrSend a Private Message to bk2futrDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DimeMachine:

get a food thermometer and a kettle of hot water. heat until the food thermometer reads 180. Pull the hot water to the other side of the stove. Check the temp of the side of the kettle with your temp gun. If it reads 180 +or- 10 degrees, I would trust it and blame the gauge-sending unit. If it reads 140, then you car is really overheating.

Let us know what you find.

The gauge is already calibrated..I borrowed it from work and use it everyday....My thought was if it is runing hot at that sensor wouldn't it be hot enough where the coolant is at the fan switch sensor to kick the fan on? Or is this sensor in a place that is going to be hotter? Since it is so close to the exhaust manifolds.

Also is this an acceptable way to check temp at the base of the switch where the threads are? Or would I be geting a false reading anyhow since the sensor is actually reading the temp of the fluid itself from the other end?

I haven't been able to drive it at all yet,,,I am hoping when I get the ECT sensor that it will run good enough to get everything else going.

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bk2futr
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Report this Post04-10-2013 09:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bk2futrSend a Private Message to bk2futrDirect Link to This Post

bk2futr

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joseph Upson:

Make sure your cooling fan works by turning on the A/C if it's charged. I believe it unusual to have an errant hot light and temp gauge at the same time as the sensor is two in one, half of it is for the gauge and the other for the hot light. You also need to make sure your coolant is flowing and at initial startup you might be able to get by with letting it idle with the stat removed and the rear filler cap off without loosing much if any coolant. With mileage that low over 20+ years you want to make sure there is no blockage in your radiator.



Thanks....I know the fan works....As it came on when I turn the A/C on AND it came on last week when I had the car idling for a long time....That was all with the original temp gauge sensor.(I put a new one in since then) I think I may put it back in and see what it reads. I put the new temp gauge sensor (from advance auto) in but I wasn't thinking of it as being "2 sensors" in one....I just thought if it was making the gauge go to a certain spot then it would also make the light come on at the same "hot" spot. But the way you are putting it you are saying it could read one thing on the gauge (and be wrong) and then it could read the correct temp for the light.....Which would explain why the light isn't coming on.......Make sense?
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bk2futr
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Report this Post04-10-2013 09:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bk2futrSend a Private Message to bk2futrDirect Link to This Post

bk2futr

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Member since Apr 2002
 
quote
Originally posted by Joseph Upson:

. You also need to make sure your coolant is flowing and at initial startup you might be able to get by with letting it idle with the stat removed and the rear filler cap off without loosing much if any coolant. With mileage that low over 20+ years you want to make sure there is no blockage in your radiator.



I think it was flowing before because both tubes were hot on the bottom of the car when I had it running for an extended time last week....My only concern was if the waterpump was not pumping enough coolant inside the engine or there was an air pocket just making this sensor be affected? But I am really suspecting the sensor now...Just wasn't thinking about it at first since it was "new"...But I guess we get new parts that are bad all the time....

[This message has been edited by bk2futr (edited 04-14-2013).]

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bk2futr
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Report this Post04-14-2013 08:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bk2futrSend a Private Message to bk2futrDirect Link to This Post
UPDATE:

Well I finally had a chance to test the original gauge/light temp sensor and according to the GM chart that lists resistances for different temps it appears to be a working sensor. So after I got the car finally running good again I removed the brand new Advance Auto (BWD) sensor and put the original one back in... ANd it is reading very close to what I am getting on the laser temp gun I was using before..
Now I just have to do the wire switch for the pegging needle!
thanks all for your help and suggestions.

[This message has been edited by bk2futr (edited 04-14-2013).]

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My87gt
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Report this Post04-14-2013 08:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for My87gtClick Here to visit My87gt's HomePageSend a Private Message to My87gtDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by bk2futr:

UPDATE:

GM chart that lists resistances for different temps it appears to be a working sensor.



have a quick link to that?
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bk2futr
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Report this Post04-14-2013 08:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bk2futrSend a Private Message to bk2futrDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by My87gt:


have a quick link to that?


Its near the bottom of this......I printed it and then heated my sensor tip and watched it change....

hope it helps

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...090219-2-082030.html
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