Had this posted in General - makes more sense to have it here. (Some people never look in General Forum)

Sounds like a rant - but isn't. Generally the first thing I do whenever I get a new vehicle is GET A SERVICE MANUAL.

Every week, we're constantly answering questions to many simple questions like...

- where is the oil filter?
- how do I set the timing?
- how do I change a bulb? etc

STUFF people would be able to do IF the took the time to get a manual that HAS ALL that information for general servicing of their car!!!!
The real basic stuff is on the Owner's Manual in the glovebox. Someone who can't even find the fuse panel definitely needs one.

Then they'd have somewhere to look if I can't find a fuse, signal flasher or can't start the engine. It's so much faster than coming in the house, posting a question on a forum somewhere, and surfing the Internet while waiting for answer from somebody, then sometimes trying to figure out what the person is saying if they're not clear. The Service Manual has pictures, diagrams, and step by step diagnostics to help fix ALL your car's problems.

I realize printed Helms manuals aren't cheap, and Fiero owners are but manuals can be downloaded these days.
Having a manual on your computer can save you a load of grief, provided you're not too lazy to look up the information you need.

Fiero Thomas has manuals can be downloaded here. http://www.fieronews.net/fusion/downloads.php

FULL Service Manuals for 86 (good for 84-86) and for the 87 and 88 model years.
Haynes manual (for those who want it) is under Tech.

Happy reading

------------------


World of Wheels Winners
My 3.4L S/C 87 GT
& Super Duty 4 Indy #163

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 08-30-2010).]

I'm with you on this Fierosound! Some people ask many questions before they do any research for themselves. Call it human nature.... I guess I love manuals. I read them all the time.

quote Originally posted by Sidecar 2M6 SE: ... Some people ask many questions before they do any research for themselves. Call it human nature.... I guess

... too polite to say some people are lazy and want to be spoonfed???

quote Originally posted by fierosound: ... too polite to say some people are lazy and want to be spoonfed???

True that, but also, there are many easier ways to do a specific job than stated in the fsm/haynes/chilton manuals, all of which detail specific gm tool pn j100-3-4000-xxxxx to perform this or that function. Posts on that don't bother me, but like you, the how do I set timing/change oil/replace starter
do get rather annoying.

One thing don't want to do is push new members away.
If you don't care to answer the silly questions, just move on.

quote Originally posted by tjm4fun: True that, but also, there are many easier ways to do a specific job than stated in the fsm/haynes/chilton manuals, all of which detail specific gm tool pn j100-3-4000-xxxxx to perform this or that function. Posts on that don't bother me, ....

I agree, if they've already looked in the manual and don't understand it, or their problem doesn't match anything "normal" that's another matter.
But I don't remember seeing many posts that say "The manual says to use this specific tool, which I don't have. Is there another way?"

It's just easier to automatically post their question without doing anything first on their part, and have people like you and me Search the forum,
post a link, type in the information from a Service Manual, or take and post pictures for them - answering the SAME questions every month.

I'm just saying LOOK IN YOUR MANUAL FIRST.... Guess that may be too much to ask of some people...

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-27-2010).]

Very helpful.


Are you complaining about having to be helpful?

No, I think he is getting tired of posting the same info over and over and over and over and over and over.
He has 2x my posts and I am already getting short with people, asking for well documented fixes.
I don't mind explaining things so all can learn, but the same thing over and over is just rough.
search and read first, then ask if you don't understand is what he is trying to get across.

Again.... you don't have to reply to the newb post's. I see no reason to get fired up over them. If I don't have the time to explain the Coolant Burp Process for the umpteenth time I just pass and I know there will be 15 other guys that have the time and don't mind to explain it for the 30th time this year.

Theres always going to be goofy questions asked over and over and over again even if you preach about using the search button.


The thing I have found on the multiple forums I visit is that you don't want to Lambaste your new members and turn them off to their New found hobby.

I must Say... this forum has a pretty good search feature unlike some of the forums I am on.

In defense of newbies, I understand their situation but on the other hand, I search the archives for past solutions to my questions. My experience with cars isn't really long compared to some but I do know 350 SBCs and Mopar small blocks fairly well.

When I bought my Fiero, it was a completely new world for me and my first impulse was to install a 350 but when I saw the necessary surgery required and the complexity of having to mill a flywheel, a manual tranny, etc, etc, I decided to look at a 4.6 Northstar but again, the problems with BCMs, no support for the later model engines, etc just convinced me that a V8 wasn't in my future. Then I met Mike Gonzalez and one ride convinced me that I had to--no I NEEDED--to get a 3800SC.

Despite my lack of automotive experience (my degree is in Radio-TV-Film), I caught on to the nuances of rebuilds, brakes, etc but I find that many of the things on a Fiero are unique to this particular car and my past experience helps but doesn't answer all questions. Luckily Mike is patient despite my ignorance and is helpful far beyond most people I have met. The only questions I have here about the Fiero are opinions (what spoiler is best, what kind of radio is best, etc)because Mike is there and doens't seem to mind me asking. If Mike wasn't there, I might be one of the newbies who asks silly questions but only after not finidng the answer in the search feature.

Incidentally, I used to edit video and I hated it when people who would ask me time and time again if they had to import a project or open it. I put a sign on the wall that said, "Import Projects, Open Files." So I do know what you're talking about.

Where is P44 - parts diagrams?

So this thread is hijacked now...

The POINT of the thread was, there's Manuals available for FREE download and people should USE THEM.
There's no reason for "I can't afford to buy a Manual for $20" excuses now...

But of course, I realize some people live by the adage "after you break it while trying to fix it, THEN check the manual."

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-28-2010).]

BUMP - for the guys who still don't have one.

How the heck do you think the technicians at dealerships fix your car??? By LOOKING at a Service Manual

I totally agree that a lot of people could - make that should have looked at the service manuals first. I will also say I see the other side of the story too. For the guy who can't locate the distributor or oil filter, I think the service manual isn't much of a help. There is no "one size fits all". Especially when I see some kid who is working on his first car and has no idea. I still remember how fustrating that can be.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: For the guy who can't locate the distributor or oil filter, I think the service manual isn't much of a help.

These are from the Haynes Manual about the Duke engine as an example. If the writeup and the accompanying pictures in the manual don't help, about the only thing that may help that person is you standing there in person and pointing it out for him - and you'd only need to do that if they can't read.

I agree some manuals describe some procedures better than others. I usually look in the Factory manual AND the Haynes manual too. BOTH can be downloaded.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 04-10-2010).]

Whenever I look at the cover of my Chilton manual it speaks loudly of their attention to details.



How many things are right on this cover? 60% - That is not passing in many High Schools.

Actually I think there shoud be extra points off for the "World's most trusted manuals" corner banner.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: Whenever I look at the cover of my Chilton manual it speaks loudly of their attention to details.

Yup. It does look hilarious. Luckily we don't use the cover for actual work or buying parts.

So the "cover art guy" likely used the same cover on all the books and just changed the car in the picture. What's in the book was likely copied directly from the factory manual with their own pictures added during their teardown of a car in preparing their book. I know that Haynes has whole chapters that look identical. Both Hayne's and Chilton's have pictures you won't see in the factory manual - they seem to like drawn pictures and diagrams.

You know the saying "where there's a will, there's a way"?

The opposite of that is "where there isn't a will, there's always a handy excuse".

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 04-10-2010).]

<bump> for newbies who have no idea they can download manuals...

Another bump - judging by the questions this week, looks like some people NEED a manual.

I'm posting links wherever I can!!!!!!

Is there any way to get these things into Ogre's Cave or something similar? I had to run through a few threads to find the links.

Just a thought.

Mark

I'm just throwing in a link to my own server and the Fiero doc's on it.
The Haynes manual showing up just about everywhere now was actually bought, dissected, scanned and indexed by me.

http://www.tjeena.se/?page_id=190
Password: freebee


------------------

J. Larsson, Supporting Member, www.tjeena.se

[This message has been edited by Intel (edited 05-29-2010).]

Okay so we have had a terrible weather over here for the last couple of days and since I don't drive my Fiero in rain I decided to do something useful this weekend...

I scanned the complete Chilton's Fiero manual into a searchable and indexed PDF and put it on my website.

Be aware the download is 143 Mb... (it's at the bottom of the page)

http://www.tjeena.se/?page_id=190
Password: freebee

Have fun!

Sorry but my internet connection didn't like having 20 simultaneous downloads...
I fixed the problem by putting the Haynes and Chilton's on a dropbox-server. Now it won't take you 20 hours to download

I love manuals!
I now have all of the downloadable ones and also have one orderd so I can keep it on hand instead of on my pc.

I will admit I have had a lot of questions as I have never had or worked on a mid engine car before. I have felt silly and sort of foolish for asking questions because I dont want to sound stupid or like I didnt do my research.
I have asked questions to get the opinions of those who know my car better than I do and to make sure that how I think something is or should go, is really accurate.
I have only encountered one person that thought I was asking stupid questions and that I didnt know anything. Other than that everyone here has been really helpful, forthcoming and actually interested in helping me and my progress.

The manuals help a LOT but when I have never ever worked on a car like this, its always helpful to have a little help from someone that isnt a book

<bump>

...another bump...

We should direct NEW Fiero owners to the link where they can download these manuals.

It will save them from "stumbling around in the dark" trying to fix their "new" car....

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-22-2010).]

I now have the 88 manual can shiltons there as well.

------------------
1985 Fiero GT 4speed 1986 Fiero GT
1994 BMW 530 V8 2005 Cobalt with a twist

FieroNews~Boots~Bag's~Walle ts~Headliner~Spare Cover~
Visors~Sunshads and T-Top Sunshades~Download the Fieronews Catalog HERE~

free Chilton manuals for most cars

click here

When it asks for the login just type any letter and any 12 digits
ex. a123456789123 (Michigan state drivers license number)

Some of us do read the manuals first but are not experienced enough to feel confident in following a list of step by step instructions without pictures.
I appreciate everyone who helps even though they are answering the same question over and over again that much more.
Just stickin up for noobs!

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: Some of us do read the manuals first but are not experienced enough to feel confident in following a list of step by step instructions without pictures.

That's what mosts posts are. And sometimes you're getting incomplete/incorrect advice - how would you even know?

If you need "hand holding" because you don't "get" the instructions in the manual, that's another thing.
At least we'll already be on the same page if you need additional explanation on how to do something.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-22-2010).]

Time for another bump. Lots of question about things people could do if they had a manual.

Guess some still don't know where to get the downloads....

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 10-11-2010).]

TTT... it's clear people don't know where to look up information...

I've split the Body Service section out from the 1986 Factory Service Manual and made it available separately for download.
This is a small 113 page, 7 MB PDF file for quick download Click here to start it now.

It's handy to print this out and put in a 3-ring binder. You don't need this file is you've already have downloaded a complete Factory Service Manual

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 01-23-2011).]

i am one of the people that is always asking questions. i didnt even know that the service manual was available for download. why not put it where it is obvious to people coming to pennocks fiero forum the first time?????
jon