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one wheel spins by hand other doesnt budge at all by pontiacfierokid1985
Started on: 03-05-2010 02:12 AM
Replies: 43
Last post by: Boostdreamer on 03-08-2010 11:32 PM
pontiacfierokid1985
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Report this Post03-05-2010 02:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiacfierokid1985Click Here to visit pontiacfierokid1985's HomePageSend a Private Message to pontiacfierokid1985Direct Link to This Post
hey everyone i kinda got a prob when i had the back end lifted up and when we went to see if we had the axles in all the way the mucie me and my bro spun the tires now the left rear side spins fine with no force and goes perfectly but when i thied to spin the right side nothing the tire doesnt even budge what could the problem be i know i have the axle all the way in cause i heard the pop noise when sliding it into the muncie four speed also when i am driving it u can here something scraping from the back tires but it doesnt do it at a stop only when the car is going forward or reverse really confused about this ?????
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jmex
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Report this Post03-05-2010 04:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jmexSend a Private Message to jmexDirect Link to This Post
Sounds like you have a brake caliper froze up. Happened to one of my fronts once. Remove the brake caliper and see if it spins.
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Archie
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Report this Post03-05-2010 08:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageSend a Private Message to ArchieDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pontiacfierokid1985:

hey everyone i kinda got a prob when i had the back end lifted up and when we went to see if we had the axles in all the way the mucie me and my bro spun the tires now the left rear side spins fine with no force and goes perfectly but when i thied to spin the right side nothing the tire doesnt even budge what could the problem be i know i have the axle all the way in cause i heard the pop noise when sliding it into the muncie four speed also when i am driving it u can here something scraping from the back tires but it doesnt do it at a stop only when the car is going forward or reverse really confused about this ?????


You're not supposed to rotate the left rear axle assembly with the suspension at full rebound. When the car is up in the air with the wheels & suspension hanging the left side inboard tri-pot is out of it's proper operating angle.

Archie
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post03-05-2010 10:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Archie:


You're not supposed to rotate the left rear axle assembly with the suspension at full rebound. When the car is up in the air with the wheels & suspension hanging the left side inboard tri-pot is out of it's proper operating angle.

Archie


So if i go over a bump that gets the suspension at full rebound the tri-pot is outside of its operational angle? Sounds hard to believe GM designed something that way. I must have missed that paragraph in the user's manual that says to quickly hit the brakes while doing the "Dukes of Hazzard" jumps.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 03-05-2010).]

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phonedawgz
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Report this Post03-05-2010 10:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post

phonedawgz

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Let me guess, this is the side of the car that also sits high. Your tri-pot came apart when you were installing the engine to the cradle and is all messed up inside and not meshing correctly.
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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post03-05-2010 11:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Archie:


You're not supposed to rotate the left rear axle assembly with the suspension at full rebound. When the car is up in the air with the wheels & suspension hanging the left side inboard tri-pot is out of it's proper operating angle.

Archie


Isn't there a video or commercial from GM showing a Fiero going fast enough over a crest in the road to launch the car off the ground? That Fiero had 100% unloaded suspension for MANY revolutions at what could be 100mph.
I think GM set the car up so that the drive train is totally compliant as long as it stays within the factory limits of suspension travel from total compression to total extension of the struts.
I know that MANY people have put the Fiero up on jack stands and run the engine in gear. Safe or not I know it happens. I have done it with the wheels off at well over 100 mph (in top gear the rpm is actually pretty low with no load at 100mph) so I know it can be done.
Infact I set up my custom axles at full extension without the boots on and no springs, then check them at full compression while spinning the tire. I check for binding this way.

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darkhorizon
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Report this Post03-05-2010 12:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
x2 on my custom axles being just fine at full suspension unload.
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Indiana87GT
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Report this Post03-05-2010 01:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Indiana87GTSend a Private Message to Indiana87GTDirect Link to This Post
Frozen caliper, my #1 bet.

#2 bet: When you installed the knuckle assembly, if you bent the brake shields OR if you bought new ones (say, from TFS) they may be rubbing on the rotor. My new brake shields had to be massaged a little to get proper clearance all around. Also, could be you do not have the 3 bolts holding the bearing assembly to the knuckle tight or tight enough (and I'm thinking of the rubbing noise when you're driving, especially cornering, again recent experience speaking) and the bearing is shifting and causing rotor rubbing on the shield or knuckle itself. Take off the wheel, look for rub marks. If it rotates freely with wheel off, put lug nuts on and tighten to rotor, if it siezes up remove rotor and find rub marks. You just have something a little off in the assembly.
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Archie
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Report this Post03-05-2010 01:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageSend a Private Message to ArchieDirect Link to This Post
Believe it or not.

Back in the day when the Fiero was still being built, GM had issued a service bulletin to it's service tech's that stated the same thing I said earlier. It didn't say that it was a problem all the time. It said that rotating the left wheel assembly was not recommended

If the OP wants to take the advice I gave him & raise the drivers side suspension to a more operable range, his "problem" will go away.

Another thing from back in the day....... I remember a place in Anahiem, CA in 1987 Pacific Motorsports, that at the time was doing a lot of performance Fieros for people. I was at their shop doing an L88 swap for them. Tom, the owner, showed me the service notice when I asked him why he had limiting straps on all of the Fieros he had modified.

So, if you experts want to believe me or not, I couldn't care.

Thanks

Archie
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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post03-05-2010 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Archie:

Believe it or not.

Back in the day when the Fiero was still being built, GM had issued a service bulletin to it's service tech's that stated the same thing I said earlier. It didn't say that it was a problem all the time. It said that rotating the left wheel assembly was not recommended

If the OP wants to take the advice I gave him & raise the drivers side suspension to a more operable range, his "problem" will go away.

Another thing from back in the day....... I remember a place in Anahiem, CA in 1987 Pacific Motorsports, that at the time was doing a lot of performance Fieros for people. I was at their shop doing an L88 swap for them. Tom, the owner, showed me the service notice when I asked him why he had limiting straps on all of the Fieros he had modified.

So, if you experts want to believe me or not, I couldn't care.

Thanks

Archie


I am by no means an expert on anything and cant remember ever claiming to be. I assume you are referring, in part to me?
Can you produce the memo? Does not surprise me that a modified car has suspension changes, ie. limiting straps.
If a bit of suspension limiting solves his "problem" he has bigger problems to solve in respect to a wheel locking up at full suspension droop. IF this is causing the wheel to lock up, something is seriously wrong and NOT setup that way from the factory. IF the axle assembly is locking up the rear wheel some one installed the wrong axle or mounted the engine wrong, worn out or broken mounts ex.

please don't take this as an attack on you, I have nothing against you. I don't have a reason to try to prove you wrong. I just disagree with your statement. If I am wrong please show me the memo and I too will tell people about the risks of the flawed GM drivetrain in our Fiero's.

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Indiana87GT
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Report this Post03-05-2010 04:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Indiana87GTSend a Private Message to Indiana87GTDirect Link to This Post
He states that when he is driving it he hears a scraping sound. He has a problem with either the brakes or the assembly of the knuckle, if the tri pot had popped out he would hear lots more than a scrape.

Diagnosis of his problem as stated rules out seperation of the axle as the root cause since driving the car would be impossible in that condition. Something in the assembly of the knuckle is not right, or the brakes or locked up, however you typically wouldn't hear scraping sounds with a dragging caliper so I'm leaning more towards assembly problem.
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Report this Post03-05-2010 04:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Archie:

Believe it or not.

Back in the day when the Fiero was still being built, GM had issued a service bulletin to it's service tech's that stated the same thing I said earlier. It didn't say that it was a problem all the time. It said that rotating the left wheel assembly was not recommended

If the OP wants to take the advice I gave him & raise the drivers side suspension to a more operable range, his "problem" will go away.

Another thing from back in the day....... I remember a place in Anahiem, CA in 1987 Pacific Motorsports, that at the time was doing a lot of performance Fieros for people. I was at their shop doing an L88 swap for them. Tom, the owner, showed me the service notice when I asked him why he had limiting straps on all of the Fieros he had modified.

So, if you experts want to believe me or not, I couldn't care.

Thanks

Archie


This is a good way to destroy a good CV boot also

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Report this Post03-05-2010 06:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by josef644:


This is a good way to destroy a good CV boot also


I might misunderstand you here? Drooping the suspension all the way by lifting the car up, then turning the rear wheels will destroy a "good" boot? If so I might as well get rid of this piece of crap Fiero because of GM's incompetence?

Are you just defending Archie? If so I understand but come on.

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phonedawgz
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Report this Post03-05-2010 06:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
Well I'd get rid of the car also if I in anyway believed that one of my rear wheels would lock up if I went over a bump large enough to cause a full unload condition.
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Report this Post03-05-2010 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post

phonedawgz

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Here is the pre-thread post from Fierokid

"het everyone i finished the flwheel and erveything is back together but now the cars on a slant like the front stays straight and the back end is crooked what could this be im guessing alignment problem if so what do i have to do to fix this asap"
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Report this Post03-05-2010 08:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageSend a Private Message to ArchieDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

Can you produce the memo? Does not surprise me that a modified car has suspension changes, ie. limiting straps.
If a bit of suspension limiting solves his "problem" he has bigger problems to solve in respect to a wheel locking up at full suspension droop. IF this is causing the wheel to lock up, something is seriously wrong and NOT setup that way from the factory. IF the axle assembly is locking up the rear wheel some one installed the wrong axle or mounted the engine wrong, worn out or broken mounts ex.

please don't take this as an attack on you, I have nothing against you. I don't have a reason to try to prove you wrong. I just disagree with your statement. If I am wrong please show me the memo and I too will tell people about the risks of the flawed GM drivetrain in our Fiero's.


I couldn't care if you believe me or not & I was just trying to help the OP.

Did I make a copy of the document? No I didn't, i was at his shop to do a job. If I had known that I was going to have to produce the document for someone on the Internet 23 years later, maybe I'd have made a copy. But then, if I'd have known about the Internet 23 years ago, I'd have just bought a $1000.00 worth of Microsoft stock & we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

If you have a stock Fiero around, put it up in the air, in neutral & rotate the left rear wheel. You'll feel the inboard Tri-pot binding.

I think what josef644 was talking about was that if you rotate the left rear wheel at that extreme angle long enough, it will eventually pull the boot off of the Tri-Pot.

As for your insults of Pacific Motorsports, I wish you could have seen the operation there. They did high dollar custom work on hot rods, street rods etc. Tom had won awards for his custom paint jobs. That's the place where I met Carroll Shelby for the 1st time. Tom had 3 of his cars in there for work when I was there. It's really not nice to defame people you don't know

I'll take the old days, when people didn't throw insults around without knowing who they were insulting.

Archie
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Report this Post03-06-2010 12:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Archie:

As for your insults of Pacific Motorsports, I wish you could have seen the operation there. They did high dollar custom work on hot rods, street rods etc. Tom had won awards for his custom paint jobs. That's the place where I met Carroll Shelby for the 1st time. Tom had 3 of his cars in there for work when I was there. It's really not nice to defame people you don't know

I'll take the old days, when people didn't throw insults around without knowing who they were insulting.

Archie


We can agree to disagree on this. I understand you were helping, that is good. I asked for a clarification and I just got a grumpy shop talk kind of answer. I guess if that is just your personality then so be it.

BUT, I never "insulted" the shop you were talking about. Please reread my post. I am very familiar with limiting straps and have a basic understanding of suspensions






I meant exactly what I said "Does not surprise me that a modified car has suspension changes, ie limiting straps". So where is the insult? Modified cars can have an infinite number of modifications including limiting straps. I did not say they are bad, wrong or any other form of incompetence.
I can easily see why a modified Fiero would need straps. If the left axle were shortened enough, this would cause the drive shaft angle to be steeper. IF that steeper angle is extreme enough it could cause CV binding or pull it out of the trypot. Stap one side then you need to strap the other. Easy enough. BUT a stock car, no I don't think so.

Now I WILL say that if GM felt that the stock Fiero needs limiting straps then THAT would be incompetence o the part of GM for offering a potentially dangerous condition to the public.

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Report this Post03-06-2010 12:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for katore8105Click Here to visit katore8105's HomePageSend a Private Message to katore8105Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Archie:


I couldn't care if you believe me or not & I was just trying to help the OP.

Did I make a copy of the document? No I didn't, i was at his shop to do a job. If I had known that I was going to have to produce the document for someone on the Internet 23 years later, maybe I'd have made a copy. But then, if I'd have known about the Internet 23 years ago, I'd have just bought a $1000.00 worth of Microsoft stock & we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

Archie


lol
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MstangsBware
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Report this Post03-06-2010 02:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Archie:

Believe it or not.

Back in the day when the Fiero was still being built, GM had issued a service bulletin to it's service tech's that stated the same thing I said earlier. It didn't say that it was a problem all the time. It said that rotating the left wheel assembly was not recommended

If the OP wants to take the advice I gave him & raise the drivers side suspension to a more operable range, his "problem" will go away.

Another thing from back in the day....... I remember a place in Anahiem, CA in 1987 Pacific Motorsports, that at the time was doing a lot of performance Fieros for people. I was at their shop doing an L88 swap for them. Tom, the owner, showed me the service notice when I asked him why he had limiting straps on all of the Fieros he had modified.

So, if you experts want to believe me or not, I couldn't care.

Thanks

Archie


The "Fiero Expert" has spoken all others are wrong.....
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Report this Post03-06-2010 08:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for steve308Send a Private Message to steve308Direct Link to This Post
"why can't we just all get along" Rodney King I think
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Report this Post03-06-2010 09:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
So back to the topic - KID did you take a look at it and figure out what's happening? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Report this Post03-06-2010 09:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Indiana87GTSend a Private Message to Indiana87GTDirect Link to This Post
Amen, if you guys want to continue your debate either start a new thread, start sending PM's, e-mails or meet in a dark alley somewhere. Quit junking up this guys thread.
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Report this Post03-06-2010 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Indiana87GT:

Amen, if you guys want to continue your debate either start a new thread, start sending PM's, e-mails or meet in a dark alley somewhere. Quit junking up this guys thread.


IF we want to continue this "debate" in this thread we will because it does pertain to the topic. A seriously damaged or "bungled" drive shaft installation could cause this problem. AND IF Archie is right and I am wrong it could be a potentially dangerous condition that we should all keep in mind.
Why would you imply that I even want to harm Archie?


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Report this Post03-06-2010 01:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for joshh44Send a Private Message to joshh44Direct Link to This Post
both you fellows do good work with fieros and other cars.
quite talented actually.
i dont know who is right and who is wrong.
i would go and test out my fiero right now and see if my tri binds at all when i jack up the car.
buttttt.... i cant. due to the rear end all taken apart. (the back end is up in the air) and the axles are out of the car at the moment.
i could try and spin the axle and tilt the CV joint and spin it that way to see if anything is binding. actually... im going to do that right now!

if what archie is saying is true. not saying he right or wrong.
shouldnt we be installing limiting straps? and wouldnt this info already be out with one of the problems that fiero has. kinda like the EGR tubing pron to cracking and other stuff like that.
anyways. im going to go and try out the axle and spin it and see what happens. ill post what i find out in about 5 - 10 mins.
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Report this Post03-06-2010 01:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Indiana87GTSend a Private Message to Indiana87GTDirect Link to This Post
Good grief,

The only debate going on is whether or not you believe Archie's statement. What you believe is irrelevant to solving this guys problem. If you don't believe Archie then send him a PM instead of publically challenging him. For the record I'll take his word for it.

You just like to argue, go start a thread and call it "come argue with me", put whatever you want in it, post more pictures of jeeps, throw in a picture of a Yugo, whatever.

The dark alley statement was humor, get a grip.

PontiacFieroKid, sorry to continue this in your thread, this will be my last post in it. PM me if you have any more questions and I'll do what I can for you.
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post03-06-2010 01:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
Agreed Indiana. PFK, there is no way your wheel will lock up to the degree that you can't turn it just because your car is on jackstands. Tell us what you found when you looked at it.
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Report this Post03-06-2010 01:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for joshh44Send a Private Message to joshh44Direct Link to This Post
ok so i went out and tryed it.
i did tilt it to the point where it couldnt turn anymore. it was over 50* angle. i dont know what angle its at when the suspension is unloaded at full.
i did tilt the joint up closest to the knuckle on the passanger side axle. it started to bind and got harder to turn as i increased the angle. mine could be worn out to making it easyer to turn on an angle.
did i test it on the wrong joint?
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Report this Post03-06-2010 02:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tjm4funSend a Private Message to tjm4funDirect Link to This Post
The issue here is the right side, which is the passenger side, unless he is backwards of the rest of the world.
The right side axle is the long axle and does not present this type of problem.
As to the driver side issue, mine spins fine with car elevated. BUT if I unhook the strut, it will drop further and bind. Possibly that is the whole issue with that tsb.
In this case I would first pull the caliper off, and see if that clears the problem. if he is distorting the ebrake cable, he could be engaging the ebrake when elevated, tho that would mean the cable is not routed correctly.Look at the ebrake arm, if it is not sitting on the stop, then it is paritally engaged.

if that is still not the issue, use a jack to rais that a arm up a few inches and see if the bind goes away.
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Report this Post03-06-2010 02:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3084meSend a Private Message to 3084meDirect Link to This Post
I caught this thread kind of late but I just wanted to chime in a pretty much agree with Archie - while maintaining that others make a good point. (Boy... how's that for playing it safe!)

Not that it happens all the time but I too believe there was a bulletin from GM. My Friend Ed still works for GM and Started with them in 1985 when he got out of college. in 1987 he switched over to being a claims adjuster just "at the end of the Fiero". I just emailed him to see if he still may have some doc's. I'd be more than happy to post if he does. (Actually the word TSB / Tech Service Bulletin may not even be correct, but he does also believe there was some sort of notice. - not only for the Fiero but some other FWD cars as well.

Not sure if this is correct (Either is he) but he seems to remember that from conversations with engineering that the design of the Tripot was such that FORWARD rotation at full suspension travel (as in "getting airborne" ... which obviously is not advised but can happen under certain circumstances) posed only a very small threat of axle failure or bind. Mainly because of circumstances like a situatiion where mounting locations for the trans have varied a bit due to worn mounts, damage etc). He also seems to remember that under full suspension travel going FORWARD that the tripot design along with technical things like gravity, G force, friction in the Tripot etc, would keep the Tripot from "over extending / binding in MOST (but not all) of the cases" due to the forward rotation of the wheel at the time it was airborne.. (He's not a scientist with his G-force comment he's trying to give an idea that "other crap is involved". My education and early career was as an an engineer but that's not my area really either).

He does also seem to remember that under the same scenario while going BACKWARDS for example (That would be a fun ride wouldn't it!) that the Tripot / Axle would/ could bind/come apart/ have a catastrophic failure at a greater rate due to the same design of the inner surface of the tripot. (who the hell knows what crazy newbie on his 1st day on the job in engineering they put into a car to figure that one out! :-)

He even agreed that it's a whole lot to remember after all of this time and it was not a significant problem. He does also mention to keep in mind that most of the Fieros today are NOT (obviously using) ) OEM Axles and I'm sure we all can agree that we've seen many "funky" axle lengths" when replacing our parts. Because of this, someone could have no problems / binding at all at full suspension travel when jacked up and someone else could bind (pretty severe in some cases).

Not looking to argue either and I actually thought of just not posting all together but I thought I would post another opinion. (And I'm not saying that just because he works for GM, his opinion is any better that anyone elses. He mentioned the same thing.) His point was:

After all these years, tolerances are greater, transaxles have been in and out, aftermarket parts like tranny mounts, axles, CV joints etc have been used and it's very possible that binding / damage could occur and a higher rate that they had seen in the past (which was very minimal from what he remembers).

Ps. I'm also not commenting on the Op's original questions as I'm sure other things can be causing his "locked up / tight" wheel.

Just wanted to pass that along.

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I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm flying too low.

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 03-06-2010).]

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Nebiros88
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Report this Post03-06-2010 04:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Nebiros88Click Here to visit Nebiros88's HomePageSend a Private Message to Nebiros88Direct Link to This Post
Good luck chasing the noise.

The only axle related bulletin ever posted by GM was

#84-7-44: LEFT HAND REAR DRIVE AXLE CV JOINT BOOT SPLITTING - (Nov 13, 1984)


CONDITION:

SPLIT DRIVE AXLE BOOT. LOSS OF CV JOINT LUBRICATION AND/OR A CLUNKING SOUND EMITTING FROM LEFT HAND REAR AXLE AREA. CAUSE: LEFT HAND RUBBER SPLASH SHIELD MAY BE CONTACTING OUTER DRIVE AXLE CV JOINT BOOT. CORRECTION: USING TEMPLATE SUPPLIED, TRIM EXCESS MATERIAL FROM SPLASH SHIELD AND INSTALL NEW DRIVE AXLE BOOT. NOTICE: IF CV JOINT HAS BEEN DAMAGED BECAUSE LOSS OF LUBE, ENTIRE JOINT MUST BE REPLACED. PROCEDURE: A. HOIST VEHICLE. B. REMOVE LEFT REAR WHEEL. C. POSITION TEMPLATE ON SPLASH SHIELD AND TRIM ACCORDING TO TEMPLATE. WARRANTY INFORMATION LABOR OPERATION T-3138 TIME ALLOWANCE .4 HOURS TROUBLE CODE 62 FOR REPLACEMENT OF CV JOINT BOOK, USE APPLICABLE LABOR TIME.

There is no TSBs for suspension unloading

Working for GM has its perks

[This message has been edited by Nebiros88 (edited 03-06-2010).]

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Report this Post03-07-2010 12:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Nebiros88:

Good luck chasing the noise.

The only axle related bulletin ever posted by GM was

#84-7-44: LEFT HAND REAR DRIVE AXLE CV JOINT BOOT SPLITTING - (Nov 13, 1984)


CONDITION:

SPLIT DRIVE AXLE BOOT. LOSS OF CV JOINT LUBRICATION AND/OR A CLUNKING SOUND EMITTING FROM LEFT HAND REAR AXLE AREA. CAUSE: LEFT HAND RUBBER SPLASH SHIELD MAY BE CONTACTING OUTER DRIVE AXLE CV JOINT BOOT. CORRECTION: USING TEMPLATE SUPPLIED, TRIM EXCESS MATERIAL FROM SPLASH SHIELD AND INSTALL NEW DRIVE AXLE BOOT. NOTICE: IF CV JOINT HAS BEEN DAMAGED BECAUSE LOSS OF LUBE, ENTIRE JOINT MUST BE REPLACED. PROCEDURE: A. HOIST VEHICLE. B. REMOVE LEFT REAR WHEEL. C. POSITION TEMPLATE ON SPLASH SHIELD AND TRIM ACCORDING TO TEMPLATE. WARRANTY INFORMATION LABOR OPERATION T-3138 TIME ALLOWANCE .4 HOURS TROUBLE CODE 62 FOR REPLACEMENT OF CV JOINT BOOK, USE APPLICABLE LABOR TIME.

There is no TSBs for suspension unloading

Working for GM has its perks


Thanks Nebiros88 for the info.

I don't blame people for siding with Archie, and I don't hold it against them. Just help him produce the TSB (memo) he needs it

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Report this Post03-07-2010 03:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

Rickady88GT

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For the record, I don't think the problem is the axle or it's joints. I side with others who have said that the caliper is the first place to look.
I have seen a few 88's with sticking or seized caliper sliders. Thou I am sure it could happen on any year Fiero.

BUT since I "like to argue" AND I happen to have an 88 up on jack stands with a complete suspension drooping to full rebound I measured the axle angle. This is a 4 speed auto 4T60 so the driver side is a little shorter than stock and should be a slightly steeper angle than stock.
Driver side is about 20* and the passenger side is about 15*.

While I am waiting for Archie and his fans to find the "memo" I decided I would do a little research of my own and I actually found a "memo" describing the typical Tripod joint.
For the rest of us that are not experts please disregard all the technical mumbo jumbo and just look for the operating angle of the tripod joint. Then compare that to the angle on the "modified" example I provided. Keep in mind that a stock Fiero "should/could" very to a slightly lesser angle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...stant-velocity_joint

OH, hang on one more thing. I don't have a Yugo but I do have a GTO. So just to stay true to my critics I have to post irrelevant pics of it


I don't have pics of the suspension to tie it in to this thread but at least one "expert" has put its engine into a Fiero or two.



Now should my arguing thread be in Off Topic, or general arguing? Hmm, and what to call it?
------------------

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 03-07-2010).]

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Report this Post03-07-2010 08:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
The precursor to this is that PFK replaced his clutch, so yes he dropped the cradle, and had removed the axle shafts from the tranny. Surely during this time it would have been easy to over extend the tripot. After reassembling and lowering the car to the ground, he noticed one side of the rear was higher than the other. When looking at that, is when he found that one wheel would spin but not the other.
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Report this Post03-07-2010 04:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Indiana87GTSend a Private Message to Indiana87GTDirect Link to This Post
Gotta love the GTO.

Look Rickaday, I've seen your posts and build threads, you've done some incredible stuff, I'm sure you know your **** . Likewise Archie most definately knows his **** . You guys are going back and forth over some "memo" produced 20 years ago, honestly it's beneath both of you to hold this argument in public, and it's not doing much to help poor old PFK out, that was all I was saying. I appreciate the jeep, been rock crawling myself a few times in my basically stock wrangler, nothing that extreme though!

Now that we're back on topic (kind of) I'm still having a similar problem as PFK, I have a rubbing coming from the inside edge of the rotor rubbing on the dust shield, still can't get it to quit. Both rotor and dust shield are new TFS parts, I'm still trying to get the "adjustment" right to stop the rubbing. When I first put it together it was rubbing hard enough it was siezed up, at least when trying to turn it by hand. At this point I'm wondering if the chamfer on the inside edge of the rotor needs to be cut a little bigger. If PFK has put new parts on he may be having the same issue. Incidentally, the TFS rear bearings have an OD that is larger than the stock bearing which would not allow me to get a socket on the 3 nuts holding it to the knuckle. I could only tighten them with an open end wrench, I hope they are tight enough. Little deviations in dimensions on new parts are killing me.

Reading PFK's post about one side of the car being higher than the other when he sat it on the ground was probably the tri-pot, but in this post he said he's driving it and hearing scraping noises, so I think your on track with brakes or something rubbing. I'm wondering how he got the tri pot seated, jump in and drive off? Bet that made some noise.

Anyway, since PFK has not come back to this thread I guess he got it fixed or is busy with other things. Maybe if we keep the thread up top he'll let us know what he found.

A friend of mine had a Yugo back when we were in HS, If I can dig up an old pic I'll post it . She even had a fully loaded one, with carpet, reverse gear and all.
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Report this Post03-07-2010 05:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
I think the grinding is the tripot innards being crushed and eaten by the tripot action. I think it fell apart and but got stuffed back together. It think the fact that the innards now prevent the tripot from fully going back together are what's making that side hang high. And I think all that tension/grinding/innard eating is what is making it not turn by hand.

I realize all we are doing is guessing at what might be the problem so PFK can actually look and find the problem. I very much know know I might be totally off. It's just a guess

Still waiting for PFK

KID - qhere are you?!

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 03-08-2010).]

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Report this Post03-08-2010 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Indiana87GT:

Gotta love the GTO.

Look Rickaday, I've seen your posts and build threads, you've done some incredible stuff, I'm sure you know your **** . Likewise Archie most definately knows his **** . You guys are going back and forth over some "memo" produced 20 years ago, honestly it's beneath both of you to hold this argument in public, and it's not doing much to help poor old PFK out, that was all I was saying. I appreciate the jeep, been rock crawling myself a few times in my basically stock wrangler, nothing that extreme though!

Now that we're back on topic (kind of) I'm still having a similar problem as PFK, I have a rubbing coming from the inside edge of the rotor rubbing on the dust shield, still can't get it to quit. Both rotor and dust shield are new TFS parts, I'm still trying to get the "adjustment" right to stop the rubbing. When I first put it together it was rubbing hard enough it was siezed up, at least when trying to turn it by hand. At this point I'm wondering if the chamfer on the inside edge of the rotor needs to be cut a little bigger. If PFK has put new parts on he may be having the same issue. Incidentally, the TFS rear bearings have an OD that is larger than the stock bearing which would not allow me to get a socket on the 3 nuts holding it to the knuckle. I could only tighten them with an open end wrench, I hope they are tight enough. Little deviations in dimensions on new parts are killing me.

Reading PFK's post about one side of the car being higher than the other when he sat it on the ground was probably the tri-pot, but in this post he said he's driving it and hearing scraping noises, so I think your on track with brakes or something rubbing. I'm wondering how he got the tri pot seated, jump in and drive off? Bet that made some noise.

Anyway, since PFK has not come back to this thread I guess he got it fixed or is busy with other things. Maybe if we keep the thread up top he'll let us know what he found.

A friend of mine had a Yugo back when we were in HS, If I can dig up an old pic I'll post it . She even had a fully loaded one, with carpet, reverse gear and all.


Cool, I think I ran out of sarcastic remarks anyway
I have just bent the shield back, but if you have a pre-88 the fronts are a little harder to get the shape you need. The rear "should" be about the same.
------------------

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 03-08-2010).]

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Report this Post03-08-2010 10:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

Rickady88GT

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Member since Dec 2002
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

I think the grinding is the tripot innards being crushed and eaten by the tripot action. I think it fell apart and but got stuffed back together. It think the fact that the innards now prevent the tripot from fully going back together are what's making that side hang high. And I think all that tension/grinding/innard eating is what is making it not turn by hand.

I realize all we are doing is guessing at what might be the problem so PFK can actually look and find the problem. I very much know know I might be totally off. It's just a guess

Still waiting for PFK

KID - qhere are you?!



You are probably not far off. I have had a roller fall off the bearing race before. If you let the axle droop to far without the outer CV held in place the trip pot could slip out of the tulip and the rollers can get knocked off. I got lucky, in that I could tell right away that something was wrong and all I had to do was peel back the boot and reset the roller. None of the needles came out of the roller, they all "cooperated"
I can only imagine the mess that would have caused?

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Report this Post03-08-2010 11:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerDirect Link to This Post
I just read in another thread that GM recommended that the Fiero be put in drive while checking and adjusting the timing. The reason behind this was to slow the engine RPM. So either GM wanted you to run behind the car while timing it OR they expected you to put it on jack stands while running the engine OR they thought everyone had access to a dyno. I'm guessing that they just wanted the car on stands.

By the way, I just finished my Duke to V6 swap and I have a similar problem. I do think it is the brake caliper though. With the car raised and the wheels off, the hub will turn just fine. Put the wheels on and it "locks up" both in the air and on the ground. It feels like the e-brake is on. I had to compress this piston to get it on so I know that it will move.

What is the cure for this?

------------------
Jonathan
1987 Notchie - undergoing surgery
I'm not a mechanic but I play one in my garage - me
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton
Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not. - Thomas Jefferson

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Report this Post03-08-2010 12:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerDirect Link to This Post

Boostdreamer

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I suppose that they could have wanted the car in drive with the e-brake on too. I don't know these things!

Anyway, I took my lug nuts loose and the wheel spins fine. Took the wheel off and the rotor spins fine. Put the lug nuts back on without the wheel and tightened them down to the brake rotor. Now it is frozen again. It seems to me that the clamping pressure of the lug nuts is pressing the rotor against the brake piston. I'm going to loosen the caliper bolts, re-tighten the lug nuts, then tighten the caliper bolts again to see if there is any relief. If not, I will probably have to compress that piston again, possibly both to make them work correctly. I bled them with no lug nuts in place so I can see how the bleeding process could have allowed the pistons to move too far with nothing holding the rotors in place.

Jonathan
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Report this Post03-08-2010 02:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tjm4funSend a Private Message to tjm4funDirect Link to This Post
Boost, read my post above. You can get exact specs on setting the ebrake in the ogre's cave (link at the bottom of the page).
If you did not rotate the piston back in with new pads, you will bind the brake. that discussion on how to set the brake has already been beaten to death a thousand times, use whatever method you see fit.
Another thing is the holes on the face rotated slightly off the pins on the pad, that will bind it nicely and can be nasty to find.
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