I will soon start an LS4 swap but the dash will go in too. My question is, can I use the Malibu dash instead of the Mote Carlo dash. Will the Malibu gages work even if the engine for the original Malibu is a 4 or 6? Do the modern electronics used by GM care what new dash is used? I like the Malibu dash over the Monti Carlo dash and would like to swap an ENTIRE Malibu interior in less the seats.
Also, can I add the steering wheel tap shift option to the system?
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09:13 PM
PFF
System Bot
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
Hmmmmm......This is one for gm engineers, I don't think that a gm tech would be able to answer, unless they've actully tried it. So, you're swapping in the entire wiring harness? The instrument pod should be able to talk to the BCM ( at least I think that in the newer cars, the instrument pod is connected to the BCM ) on the CAN network. Let's hear it.
In the worst case scenario, you might be able to adapt the SS intruments to the Malibu pod.
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10:37 PM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
Hmmmmm......This is one for gm engineers, I don't think that a gm tech would be able to answer, unless they've actully tried it. So, you're swapping in the entire wiring harness? The instrument pod should be able to talk to the BCM ( at least I think that in the newer cars, the instrument pod is connected to the BCM ) on the CAN network. Let's hear it.
In the worst case scenario, you might be able to adapt the SS intruments to the Malibu pod.
Yes I will use the ENTIRE wire harness. I got the harness from bumper to bumper out of the Monti Carlo and plan to use it ALL in the Fiero. The only thing that is missing is the sunroof harness and windshield wiper harness (they were damaged). I will have most of the stuff from the donor car. IF??? I can just plug the ECM, BCM, TCM and all the rest into the Malibu dash I will be in good shape
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10:55 PM
Mar 28th, 2008
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Yes I will use the ENTIRE wire harness. I got the harness from bumper to bumper out of the Monti Carlo and plan to use it ALL in the Fiero.
Why not just put a Fiero Body kit on the Monte Carlo? Just kidding, but it looks the the future of swaps is getting to the point that you have to transplant the entire vehicle, (minus the steel unibody) over to the Fiero to get it to work.
We need the electronic gurus to come through with some new harnesses that emulate all those missing BCMs and CAN Networks and make engine and dash swaps easy again.
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03:23 PM
kennn Member
Posts: 272 From: Green Valley, AZ USA Registered: Apr 2006
I did not get the dash with the LS4 drive train but I am trying to get any and all complonents as I can from the donor car. The search for a Malibu dash will start soon. I "have a plan"??? I want to avoid doing any computer changes for now. That is why the entire wire harness from the Monte Carlo from bumper to bumper is going in the Fiero. IF the after market has a good program for the LS4 to help performance, I may do that after the conversion?
GM badge ingineering is cool, sometimes. If you look close you will notice that the head light switch, gear shifter (diferent cover, color) radio and heater/AC head unit is the same on the two dashes. They just have a black face or brushed stainless face option to choose from. Even the syeering wheels are used across the GM line. The Malibu uses the same steering wheel as the Corvette and Solstice. The Monte Carlo shares the steering wheel with other cars. So I could use a steering wheel from the Solstice for the "PONTIAC" emblem in the center.
Vette steeing wheel. Notice that it also has the exact same "TAP SHIFT" butons as the Malibu.
Notice the "TAP SHIFT" option on the Malibu steering wheel. I would like to make full use of it on the swap. ------------------
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 03-29-2008).]
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11:19 AM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
Impala The only diferance between the two cauge clusters are the color overlays and plastic surounds that are for looks only.
Now the Malibu on the other hand is a bit harder to tell. I want to see if I can use the Malibu gauge cluster with the swap, or if I have to use the LS4 cluster I would try to take apart he Malibu gauge pod. Take out the gauge cluster and insert the Montecarlo cluster behind the plastic gauge suround and cover. That way I will have the same color lights as the rest of the dash lights.
This is a diferent view of the Malibu hybrid gauge cluster, the charge gauge would be the temp on standard gauges
Keep in mind that what you see around the gauge cluster is a Badge ingineering smoke screen so GM can use the off the shelf parts for many of the cars they sell and keep the "brands" with a look to set them apart from each other. I just plan to take advantage of this by using the gauge cluster that will work on my swap AND have the look I want.
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[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 03-29-2008).]
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11:36 AM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Holy crap that blue malibu gauge looks pretty sweet. I like the blue one on the top. If only it goes over 140.. not that I'll be going over 100 on the highway if I ever do get a fiero anyways but it's always cool to see high numbers on the gauge. But yea get the blue malibu gauge, it' should go really well w/ your fiero, w/ it being blue and white..ish..
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12:02 AM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
I went to a yard today and got a Montecarlo dash. It is basically for experiment and a few components because it is busted pretty good
My guess about the gauge pod seems to be partially confirmed. It brakes down into bite size pieces very easily.
You can see that the pod around the gauge cluster can take MANY different shapes. The gauge cluster is only an inch thick. It has a front and back cover and a few surrounds to complete the package. It also has a mini display screen for a variety of info. The gauge cluster also has a plastic overlay that gives it it's graphics and color. I did not take this overlay off. I believe that the gauge cluster in the Monte, Impala and Malibu is the same unit. Just the plastic overlay witch gives it it's distinct blue and white face and the plastic surrounds make it look so different. (just a guess at this time)
My plan at this time is to use the Montecarlo gauge cluster in a Malibu dash, if the Malibu gauges are not compatible with the LS4 BCM.
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01:13 AM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
The engine came in today, looks to be in great condition. Most parts are shiny and the paint is not even worn off the belt pulleys. All wires and hoses have been properly disconnected except the ac lines which has been cut beyond the connector. This will give me some ac line to work with for the conversion.
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03:59 PM
mcaanda Member
Posts: 3652 From: Grand Junction Colorado Registered: Mar 2003
Yeps--Looks like a LS4 to me. Looks good and will be following your Thread. I test fitted mine for the first time this past weekend. Had to do a little metal reworking but think I got it worked out.
Cool another LS4 in the works. I actually got out in the garage today and started to trial fit the eng/trans on the cradle. Keep us posted and the more pics the merrier
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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK
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08:34 PM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
I'm so impressed that you know how to do this... I wouldn't even know where to start. Maybe if I had an illustrated by the numbers instruction manual just maybe. But you guys that make this stuff up as you go along impress the heck out of me.
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10:24 PM
Apr 4th, 2008
Austrian Import Member
Posts: 3919 From: Monterey, CA Registered: Feb 2007
Yea, GM figured out that crappy/design agnostic interiors won't sell.
Besides the cool new design works great with their current strategy of bringing old European cars over hear and rebadging them. Maybe they got jealous of recent Renault, Audi, and BMW interiors. Either way it's good for us here.
They even figured out how to make cars "tuned at the Nuerburg ring" an advertising catch phrase. Yes it's a great and demanding track. But it's also one of the cheapest proving grounds a manufacturer could have in Europe, since it's essentially just a public toll road.
Definitely do the Malibu interior. I think it would look great. Maybe somebody could Photo-chop it into a Fiero for you. I unfortunately don't have the skill set, but I'm always in awe of great photochops.
[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 04-04-2008).]
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02:09 AM
Austrian Import Member
Posts: 3919 From: Monterey, CA Registered: Feb 2007
Originally posted by jscott1: Why not just put a Fiero Body kit on the Monte Carlo? Just kidding, but it looks the the future of swaps is getting to the point that you have to transplant the entire vehicle, (minus the steel unibody) over to the Fiero to get it to work.
We need the electronic gurus to come through with some new harnesses that emulate all those missing BCMs and CAN Networks and make engine and dash swaps easy again.
That is the sad part unfortunately Especially if you live in C.A.R.B. land Kalefornia.
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02:12 AM
Austrian Import Member
Posts: 3919 From: Monterey, CA Registered: Feb 2007
Now the Malibu on the other hand is a bit harder to tell. I want to see if I can use the Malibu gauge cluster with the swap, or if I have to use the LS4 cluster I would try to take apart he Malibu gauge pod. Take out the gauge cluster and insert the Montecarlo cluster behind the plastic gauge suround and cover. That way I will have the same color lights as the rest of the dash lights.
This is a diferent view of the Malibu hybrid gauge cluster, the charge gauge would be the temp on standard gauges
Keep in mind that what you see around the gauge cluster is a Badge ingineering smoke screen so GM can use the off the shelf parts for many of the cars they sell and keep the "brands" with a look to set them apart from each other. I just plan to take advantage of this by using the gauge cluster that will work on my swap AND have the look I want.
Good eyes Rick. I think that's exactly what's going on. I wish I still worked for Hertz. I could see all these cars side by side and tell you exactly. The "tubes" seem to be merely cosmetic. and go on top of the cluster. See if you can get a copy of the parts manual from the respective GM dealers. I did that when I owned my Mazda 626 and found out that it's a reskinned Ford Probe (or vice versa), and found out just how many parts swap over between these cars. btw. sometimes the part numbers will be different, even though the pictures will match. It seems that car companies don't want us to know.
I did notice GM is doing this aggressively as a cost saving measure. It's even more obvious on the SUV line. Tahoe,Yukon, Escalade - exact same cars, down to the interior. Just with different materials and colors used. GM's "baby SUV's" are a bit better disguised, but I could still tell. *
I think Chrysler has been using this "cost cutting" measure even more aggressively.
____ * I don't know about the cars, but I can tell you that the SUV parts cleanly swap over. Even the plugs (connectors) work. I came across it during my crazy research sessions. (the story in that article went that a braindead dealership destroyed a Yukon dash in the process of wiring in a "stealth"/hidden Radar detector/Laser Jammer. Instead of telling their customer about the blunder. The dealership "upgraded" the customer to the Escalade gauges and charged him $2000 more for the cost of that dash. (which they took off another vehicle off the lot, while ordering a replacement cluster for the Escalade they took it out of.) )
[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 04-04-2008).]
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02:27 AM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
NICE. Although I didn't see the MAF sensor in the pictures of the engine you got, did they include that with your purchase?
-ryan
Good catch, the forum member I got the drive train from still has many of the components. They are not ready for shipping yet. The last wire harness I had shipped weighed 40# or so. But In with the harness are going to be several other "vital" components needed to complete the swap.
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12:20 PM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
Yeps--Looks like a LS4 to me. Looks good and will be following your Thread. I test fitted mine for the first time this past weekend. Had to do a little metal reworking but think I got it worked out.
I will be a wile before I actually get to the swap. But off the bat the alt will need to be moved and I think I want to move it to the stock Fiero location or run it backwards in the stock battery location. I have seen it mounted both ways in other swaps. I know the cooling fins are directional but not sure if that will matter or if I will alter the alt?
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12:26 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Won't the alternator make negative 12V if you run it backwards? (I'm only half joking)
It would involve some tricky mounting AND make belt replacement harder. So this would be a last choice to mount the alt backwards but it should still function properly.
I will be a wile before I actually get to the swap. But off the bat the alt will need to be moved and I think I want to move it to the stock Fiero location or run it backwards in the stock battery location. I have seen it mounted both ways in other swaps. I know the cooling fins are directional but not sure if that will matter or if I will alter the alt?
It can be mounted in the low postion right above the axle as Darth did on his install. I am 90% done with my low mount in that postion and it uses the stock Alt mounted but flipped and trimmed a little. I should have the mount completed this weekend but will see once I figure out what I am going to do this weekend.
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03:11 PM
Apr 10th, 2008
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
I took a 3.6 6 speed auto Tap Shift Malibu for a test drive. The Tap Shift is cool and may work in place of a manual for CA emissions purposes. But is is NOT as good as a manual.
I think I was wrong about the Gauges from the Montecarlo being compatible with the Malibu? IF they are compatible GM did a VERY good job of discising the of the self parts (badge engineering) But maybe I could just take the Malibu gauges out of the dash and instal the Montecarlo gauges (plan B)?
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07:40 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
You also would need to run a reverse rotation fan on the alternator. Should be able to get one from a boating supplier.
Archie
A rule of thumb is, if it has groves, it runs the same direction as the crank and if it is smooth it runs opposite as the crank. So that in mind, if I do run the alt in the battery location I will try to use an idler pulley location and run the alt from there. That way it will run the correct direction.
EDIT Never mind, did not think far enough ahead to consider changing out the grove pulley for a smooth pulley on the alt, wont work.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 04-10-2008).]
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08:59 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
A rule of thumb is, if it has groves, it runs the same direction as the crank and if it is smooth it runs opposite as the crank. So that in mind, if I do run the alt in the battery location I will try to use an idler pulley location and run the alt from there. That way it will run the correct direction.
EDIT Never mind, did not think far enough ahead to consider changing out the grove pulley for a smooth pulley on the alt, wont work.
Several years ago (well actually it was 1989) I went out to CA to put a V-8 in for a place called Pacific Motorsports. It was a new crate 'Vette engine at the time TPI L98. They wanted a smog pump mounted on it & I mounted the smog pump backwards (pointed towards the engine) & after making a flat pulley drove it off of the back side of the belt, using the Smog pump as an idler pulley. BTW, in that position the Smog pump was still turning clockwise.
Archie
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09:20 PM
Apr 11th, 2008
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
Several years ago (well actually it was 1989) I went out to CA to put a V-8 in for a place called Pacific Motorsports. It was a new crate 'Vette engine at the time TPI L98. They wanted a smog pump mounted on it & I mounted the smog pump backwards (pointed towards the engine) & after making a flat pulley drove it off of the back side of the belt, using the Smog pump as an idler pulley. BTW, in that position the Smog pump was still turning clockwise.
Archie
I can see how the smog pump will work that way because of the relatively low drag on the belt. But the alt with the smaller pulley and higher drag on the belt wont like running on the flat side of the belt.
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12:50 AM
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12132 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
A rule of thumb is, if it has groves, it runs the same direction as the crank and if it is smooth it runs opposite as the crank. So that in mind, if I do run the alt in the battery location I will try to use an idler pulley location and run the alt from there. That way it will run the correct direction.
EDIT Never mind, did not think far enough ahead to consider changing out the grove pulley for a smooth pulley on the alt, wont work.
Check around but I have seen sepentine belts with grooves on both sides... just can not remember where right now.
The UPS man is suposed to drop off more parts tomarrorw. I "hope" I can see it run outside the car. With all the wire harnesses reunited, it "should" fire up?
I have the wire harness laid out and the dash about ready to go. I need to get a serp belt ( the original shreded in the boo boo" and drop the fuel pump sending unit in some gas and run a fuel line up to the fuel rail. One of the key components I need is the Key. That should come in the UPS box.
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Its sporty and straight forward. The SS looks plain.
Just kidding, but it looks the the future of swaps is getting to the point that you have to transplant the entire vehicle, (minus the steel unibody) over to the Fiero to get it to work. 
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) and it still fits VERY well..JPG)
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