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C5 brakes all around on a 86 by procarnut
Started on: 12-21-2007 02:20 PM
Replies: 81
Last post by: msweldon on 11-25-2009 03:49 PM
procarnut
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Report this Post12-21-2007 02:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
I just baught a set of Calipers, brackets and rotors (Front and Rear) off of a 97 Corvette for $150.00. I also have a set of parking brake backing plates and hardware off the same type of car. In my state you have to have a seperate parking brake system that will work even if the service brakes fail. So I have to have a mechanical parking brake in order to be legal. So I decided to pick up the parking brake assy. off of another corvette an make it work on my car. The off set is exactly the same. But the bolt patern I believe is a little different. So I will have to mod to make it work. So i am asking this.....

1. Has anyone installed the c5 parking bake assy on a 84-87 fiero yet?

2. What has to be done to mod the rear knuckle to clear the rotors?

3. Are ther any alternative to the e-bake assy i'm using?

I have already made the centric rings, drilled all my rotors, shaved a set of hubs for the fronts, and made a template for the front brackets. I will mill out soon.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob
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Report this Post12-21-2007 04:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TD37Click Here to visit TD37's HomePageSend a Private Message to TD37Direct Link to This Post
Sweet, very good deal. My other thought to doing this was to use C5 calipers up front and C4's in the back and just grind and smooth up the C4 calipers to make them look better. Let me know what you come up with. Just curious, is that bracket blueprint going to be available or are you looking to make some money. Also, do you have to do any machining to the C5 front calipers? If you want to keep this on the DL we could talk via PM's or email.

-Tim
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procarnut
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Report this Post12-21-2007 04:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
I'm not looking to make Money on this....If I get a template mesured i'll post it.... However i think there is one on line already. I'll let you know. I got the specs on the centric rings from Bubba's thread. You can buy the brackets from West Coast Fieros and DS1. I'm just doing my own because I'm broke/cheap and i have the equipement to do it. I'm not trying to cut into their business but it seems cheaper to buy if you're time is worth anything. Again I'm always broke so it's a no brainer for me.
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Report this Post12-21-2007 06:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blakeinspaceSend a Private Message to blakeinspaceDirect Link to This Post
sweet Bob!

I may be giving you a jingle so I can drill my 12" vette rotors.
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Report this Post12-22-2007 03:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostedSeries1Send a Private Message to BoostedSeries1Direct Link to This Post
don't suppose you could wipp me up a set the centric rings? I my self am doing some fun brake conversion stuff of my own. I would be willing to pay you for them.

Hey blake... you still ain't got thems brakes done yet? I had to ask... lol.

[This message has been edited by BoostedSeries1 (edited 12-22-2007).]

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Report this Post12-22-2007 04:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blakeinspaceSend a Private Message to blakeinspaceDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BoostedSeries1:

Hey blake... you still ain't got thems brakes done yet? I had to ask... lol.



Said the man who has yet to drive a Fiero to a club meeting...
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procarnut
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Report this Post12-22-2007 06:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
just a quick update....I took the knuckle apart and set the parking brake backing plate on the hub. Looks like I have to remove the tab off the backing plate to make it work. I also noticed I have to remove the tang on the knuckle in order for the rotor to fit. I'm thinking about welding the backing plate to the knuckle but still hesitant about it. The flange on the backing plate is larger than the fiero's flange. I would either weld a blank sheet to the plate and drill to fit or notch what I ha ve and tack weld it into place...not sure yet what I'm going to do...

More to come later..

Bob
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procarnut
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Report this Post12-31-2007 07:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
Boosted...no problem. Are you hav'n problems with the rings hanging before bottoming on the face of the hub? I did at first but milled a square notch out on the inside and they fit perfect now and the out side is flush with the rotor face. Let me know what you need.

So far I have made a basic mounting plate for the parking brake, but I will have to weld the original backing plate to it to get the correct off set. The e-brake shoes are actually suppose to set 3-4 mm off from the face of the backing plate mounting flange. So it's faster,easier and more accurate to just stack it. The flange is diff between the vette andfiero so I have to remount on the plate I made. The plate is only 5/16th thick so reinforcement will be needed. I plan on adding an additional plate (wellded and milled) to make more reliable. However I will have to mill the caliper bracket flanges down for the correct off set.

All in all, considering the time and what would normally cost an arm and a leg to do this the 88-96 rear brake swap would be better as far as ease and cost.

I'll try to post pics as soonas i find my camera.

Bob
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procarnut
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Report this Post01-01-2008 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
ok another update......

I ended up bolting the e-brake backing plate on against the plate I made and it works so far. Now I realized i have a set of heavier caliper brackets so i will use them. now the trick......... Do I make heavier brackets and weld then directly to the knuckle or reinforce the plate that the e-brake mounts too and hope I have enough threads to hold the caliper...

Still can't find my camera but will post as soon as i can.

bob
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procarnut
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Report this Post01-03-2008 09:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
Ok mounted tabs on the plate and it seems good. I think I may set up a format for cutting out brackets. That will unitize a kit with just the backing plate and a spacer for the cv axle. I still have to make the spacers for the axle and a plate for the parking brake cable. I'll just found my camera when I got home so i'll try to have pics. soon.

Bob
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Report this Post01-03-2008 10:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierociousGTSend a Private Message to FierociousGTDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post01-04-2008 05:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TD37Click Here to visit TD37's HomePageSend a Private Message to TD37Direct Link to This Post
How far have you gotten on the front calipers? I'm getting a front set of calipers and brackets soon and I wanted to see how you were doing. If you had a bracket done already that would be great. Are you using the Z06 13" rotor in front or the standard C5 12" rotor? I guess I really don't have a preference and it might come down to price of the rotor and clearance between the caliper and the shock. If you have it done, did you enounter any problems in that area? I noticed on the West Coast Fiero brake kits you have to remount the shock inboard more to allow some clearance. Let me know what you've got and look forward to seeing some pics.


-Tim
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procarnut
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Report this Post01-04-2008 10:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
Sorry no pics yet but i will have some posed by Monday. As far as the front goes...I am running the 13" front rotor that came off od a c5 vette. The rear is the stock 12" brakes. I already have the brackets made but I dont have them on the car yet. I have a extra set of spendles and knuckles to mock up on. According to all my mesurements, should work. I did start out with another set of brackets I made but realized i would have the same problem as WCF with the shock mount and the length of the brake hose. So I reclocked the caliper up to avoid the shock mount and shorten the hose length needed too. I actually got that idea from the DS1 pics.

I have had people ask me what they were made from and i tell them aluminum. Now I know everyone is nervous about aluminum brackets but I did not thread them. I still use the original threading in the knuckle and the caliper bracket to bolt too. So esentually, I'm only using the bracket as a spacer, for the front.

The rear is a steel plate. My original plan was to weld flanges to the knuckle, but realized I was milling off CAST IRON. I know cast iron can be welded but not very dependible for the torque loads that will be exerted. So I made a plate that everything can mount to and it bolts between the hub bearing and the knuckle. This helps to center everything (if pre-cut) and space outwards. The other advantage would be adding a more offset wheel up to 10mm more. So if you are looking for wider wheel/tire combinations that's another option inclusive to the brake upgrade. Also, a wider track adds more stability to the rear, although may not be very noticeable at 20mm gain. If you add the tire/wheel to fill in the additional space it should help.

I am also looking to set up a CAD program to duplicate the adaptors. I want to ensure I have all the bugs worked out. If it works good for me, i have a shop in mind that could lazer cut the plates and maybe sell a few sets. I'm not looking to make alot of money but I never realized how much work this would be. Hine side i would have gone with the 88-96 rear set up just for the simlification. I know others (like myself) can get the complete take off sets cheaper and still buy the parking brake sets more easily.

So wouldn't a simple one piece adaptor that centers everything and adds a wider track in the rear be appealing? I want to make this an easy setup and hopefully fool proof. However some machine work would be needed. Milling the ears off the rear knuckles, caliper brackets (rear) and milling the rotors off the hubs (front) and drilling the rotors to fit. Price? I really dont know yet but I will try to keep it reasonable. If I had known how much time it took to set everything up I wouldn't be so put out about the prices that's being asked for a complete set up. But I still am put out about the prices but not as much now. Again I will post pics soon. Sorry for the delay.

Bob
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procarnut
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Report this Post01-07-2008 09:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
here they are....pictures..

















Sorry for so long to post pics. But I wanted to show a working set up first. Although they are not on my car yet.
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Report this Post01-07-2008 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroXSend a Private Message to fieroXDirect Link to This Post
has anyone thought of making custom spindles, that will fit corvette brakes without needing brackets and spacers? Just a bolt in spindle that bolts the brakes straight on? Lets work on that. and how about with a 2" drop already built in.
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procarnut
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Report this Post01-07-2008 06:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
More pictures...comparison
Here is a before shot.





Here is after for the front...





More to come later....

[This message has been edited by procarnut (edited 01-07-2008).]

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Report this Post01-07-2008 09:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for avengador1Send a Private Message to avengador1Direct Link to This Post
Is that rotor on the right wheel? Normally the crossdrill patern spirals out from the center in the direction of rotation to vent the gases out from the center out to the edge of the rotor. That one is backwards. It probably doesn't matter anyway.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 01-07-2008).]

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procarnut
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Report this Post01-07-2008 09:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
That's a good question but i found out that you go by the vains on the inside. They should pull air from the center to the outside, much like a turbo spools air. I researched that same point and found out that some do and some dont. Brembo has theirs cut the same way so i figured if that is how they did it then i would too. It wouldmake sense to point them the other way but I didn't want to comprimise the heat exchange and crack the rotors. So I did what the experts do. Why? I really couldn't tell you. Next time I'm buying the rotors crossed drilled and not drill them myself. Oh even though the drill patter leans to the left the vains lear to the right. If that helps.

[This message has been edited by procarnut (edited 01-07-2008).]

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Report this Post01-07-2008 09:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by avengador1:

Is that rotor on the right wheel? Normally the crossdrill patern spirals out from the center in the direction of rotation to vent the gases out from the center out to the edge of the rotor. That one is backwards. It probably doesn't matter anyway.



Only one side is for backing up real fast. Haha

Kidding aside, that looks like real good work you are doing there. How many Fiero's ya got in that garage?
Joe Crawford
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procarnut
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Report this Post01-07-2008 09:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
Thanks..Josef.

That silver one in the back belong to a friend of mine. We're putting in a 3800sc motor in it.
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Report this Post01-07-2008 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Direct Link to This Post
There is a guy about 20 miles from me I'm trying to get a hold of , supposed to have a 1995 3800SC out of a Riviera with all the fixin's for $500.00


Dusty, but sealed up good

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 01-07-2008).]

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Report this Post01-08-2008 12:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TD37Click Here to visit TD37's HomePageSend a Private Message to TD37Direct Link to This Post
Very nice!!! All the calipers that I thought I was going to get from Corvette guys have fallen through. It sounded like a good deal until they sent me pics. I've never seen calipers in such sad shape that came off a 2002 Corvette. They could be used as cores thats it. Any word on what you want to do with the bracket patterns you have made up? If you give me the patterns for free I'll promise to keep my mouth shut!

-Tim
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procarnut
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Report this Post01-09-2008 10:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
I may redo the brackets again. I think I could come up with something better....But these do work without any issue. Now I am thinking about painting or powder coating the rotors since I drilled them after I had already painted them.

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procarnut
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Report this Post01-11-2008 09:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
Ok got the front's done and the rears done (except e-brake cables). I drove the car and touchy..touchy...touchy.. I think I will have to put a proportioning valve on it and master cylinder. It does stop very quick but will lock up the rear tires easy. Seems like the fronts dont get enough volume to even out so I'll do some more checking.

Bob
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Report this Post01-11-2008 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CTFieroGT87Send a Private Message to CTFieroGT87Direct Link to This Post
Looks awesome! I'm really interested in how the rear e-brake setup looks as well as what proportioning valve you end up with. I feel the same about the brake distribution. Did you upgrade the master?

------------------
Christian
87 Pontiac Fiero GT Burgandy/Silver 5.7L ZZ4 5spd, 88 suspension, C6 polished wheels, C5 Z06 brakes, Konis, poly'd, Spec Stg 3
301rwhp/345rwtq
Stovebolt Powered!!!!!
06 Cobalt SS/SC w/ LSD (the slow DD)

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Report this Post01-11-2008 10:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Custom84cpSend a Private Message to Custom84cpDirect Link to This Post
Bob, when i looked into doing this setup I found out that because of the size of the caliper I would lose turn radias, the caliper would hit the upper control arm before i could get full lock to lock.
know if you mount the caliper almost at the top of the rotor, you will get full turn lock to lock, but that does not look to good to me, and i'm sure there is some bad brake sheer force geometry in that setup.
JMT..
Steve
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procarnut
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Report this Post01-11-2008 11:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
Hey Guys, I have not replaced the MC yet but I'm looking at it.

Steve, good to hear from you. I'm interested in those injectors if you still have them. Are you talking about the C5 brakes? I checked the turn and I have full turn loc to loc. The c5 rotors set farther out than the C4 rotors. The rotors are actually less than an inch fom the back of the wheel. I was looking into the c4 brakes but I ran across these dirt cheap so I couldn't pass them up. Anyway I have more adjustments to do and will see what turns up.

take it easy.

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Report this Post01-12-2008 02:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierociousGTSend a Private Message to FierociousGTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by procarnut:
Hey Guys, I have not replaced the MC yet but I'm looking at it.


If I'm not mistaken with the C5 calipers you use the stock Fiero MC.

[This message has been edited by FierociousGT (edited 01-12-2008).]

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Report this Post01-12-2008 04:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TD37Click Here to visit TD37's HomePageSend a Private Message to TD37Direct Link to This Post
I've got a set of C5 calipers coming my way and I was planning on replacing the stock distribution block with this handy little unit from Jegs. Not sure what mods you need to do to the lines but I think this would be pretty easy. It is also 2 front 1 rear outlet with a built in proportioning valve. Seems like the hot setup to me.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/...0002_762853_-1_10165

-Tim
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Report this Post01-12-2008 11:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroWannaBeSend a Private Message to FieroWannaBeDirect Link to This Post
I 'm pretty shure people using larger brakes are using a c3 vette master cylinder.

[This message has been edited by FieroWannaBe (edited 01-12-2008).]

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procarnut
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Report this Post01-12-2008 08:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
Just a correction...I said eearlier that the "rotor" was less than an inch from the backof the wheel....I mean caliper was less than an inch from the back of the wheel. I'll post picture of the rear's soon.

Bob
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Report this Post01-13-2008 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Custom84cpSend a Private Message to Custom84cpDirect Link to This Post
[QUOTE]Originally posted by procarnut:

Steve, good to hear from you. I'm interested in those injectors if you still have them. Are you talking about the C5 brakes? I checked the turn and I have full turn loc to loc.

Hum, maybe because I have an 84, with Suspen Tec,
lowering springs it did not seem to work with me.
Glad they work for you, looks great!
Yup, I still have those injectors , they got your name on them.
I'll bring them to the next meeting. My car is still down due to a bad Alt, but i'll be there in my new 400HP Tundra if I dont find time to rebuild the Alt.
Steve
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procarnut
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Report this Post01-13-2008 11:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
Thanks Steve,

I'm thinking about swapping springs and shocks/struts but have to wait for $. I'm also thinking about building a set of upper control arms that will allow camber and caster settings to be changed more easily. All these ideas and no time to do them all. Anyway the block pitched the caliper up for clearance. Again Thanks.

Bob
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Report this Post01-14-2008 03:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroWannaBeSend a Private Message to FieroWannaBeDirect Link to This Post
there are balljoints that allow for camber adjustments.
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procarnut
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Report this Post01-14-2008 06:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
????? Really? I know the stock one will turn 180* with a slight offset. I notched my a arms in order to slide camber +/- but I wanted to get or make something that will allow for caster too. Also something I can adjust with the wheel on. I have enough clearance through the wheel (or at lease i did). I wanted to build a slider on two plates that is moved by a set screw. Once the specs are what you want all you have to do is lock it down. But that is another thread soon to come.

But please elaborate on the ball joint?

Thanks,
Bob
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Report this Post01-14-2008 07:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TD37Click Here to visit TD37's HomePageSend a Private Message to TD37Direct Link to This Post
Rodney Dickman sells the upper adjustable ball joint. I put them on mine when I lowered it and my alignment guy thanked me. Also, I put "camber bolts" in the rear shock mounts to make camber adjustments there a breeze. They work like a cam or eccentric and as you turn it you get more or less camber. Also a big service to the alignment man.

http://www.rodneydickman.com/retail_new.html

I got the camber bolts from SPC performance. Here is the link with all the info

http://www.spcperformance.c...Cam&cmd2=82110&cmd3=


Hope this helps
-Tim
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Report this Post01-14-2008 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the links, Tim. I've used SPC before on other alignments I've done. Good products and really a life saver when you make the adjustments. I was looking at RD's balljoint, cheap enough. I have notched the upper control are so I can adjust the ball joint. I made a plate for the bj bolts and welded the bolts to it so I only have to turn the wrench to tighten them. Thats' a little hard to do and physically hold the degree you need. I'm looking to make a mechanically adjusted ball joint or plate that a turn of a screw or bolt will make it easier.
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Report this Post01-14-2008 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero_silvaSend a Private Message to fiero_silvaDirect Link to This Post
Any other pics of the rear adapter brackets? They look welded???
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procarnut
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Report this Post01-14-2008 09:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutDirect Link to This Post
I'll have to tear it down again to take a picture. There is two ears welded to the plate to ensure there were enough treads to hold the caliper bracket. Next set I make will be 3/8th thick. Just for added peace of mind.
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fiero_silva
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Report this Post01-14-2008 11:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero_silvaSend a Private Message to fiero_silvaDirect Link to This Post
Cool. What are you using for brake lines?
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