With the 5 speed Getrag you can be putting down 600 HP but you are only going to be able to use about 250 of that cause of the transmisson you are using. If you want big HP that you can use without haveing to worry about your trans then you better get the 65e-HD. But besides the trans being an issue if you want 300 HP then:
XP Cam Springs IC 2.8 Pulley Upgraded TB P/P Blower
or
Stock motor w/ 150 shot of juice
or
Snatch off the SC or use block off plate and go Turbo.
With the 5 speed Getrag you can be putting down 600 HP but you are only going to be able to use about 250 of that cause of the transmisson you are using. If you want big HP that you can use without haveing to worry about your trans then you better get the 65e-HD. But besides the trans being an issue if you want 300 HP then:
XP Cam Springs IC 2.8 Pulley Upgraded TB P/P Blower
or
Stock motor w/ 150 shot of juice
or
Snatch off the SC or use block off plate and go Turbo.
He's gunna get around 20?whp more with just the top swap
That list is a bit excessive. You can get 300whp with a 3.0 and xp with no ic on a SC block
Port heads, Colder plugs, colder stat, big intake, big exhaust, and a 3.4 or a bit smaller is my guess
[This message has been edited by RideZiLightning (edited 12-10-2008).]
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12:52 PM
mrjohnishome Member
Posts: 925 From: Charleston, West Virginia Registered: Jun 2005
i151, I live in huntington, so if you need any help, you can hit me up. I would be glad to help you out with your swap. I go to school, but my grandparents live in Ashland. PM me if you wanna get together. I would love to check out your car! Nick
He's gunna get around 20?whp more with just the top swap
That list is a bit excessive. You can get 300whp with a 3.0 and xp with no ic on a SC block
Port heads, Colder plugs, colder stat, big intake, big exhaust, and a 3.4 or a bit smaller is my guess
That is if you have a tuner and know how to tune. There are many that can't run a 3.0 pulley with XP cam with no IC. It all dedpends on tune, where you live, ect. Plus you also have to take it how you want when people claim 300HP with little MODs--Are they full of it, have they even been to the dyno, ect. He is asking for advice and I gave him my opinion on the subject.
Ohio86se has a series II with a 3.4 pulley and stock exhaust. He posted his dyno here on the forum from his run at summit racing. It was 232 whp. Thats some of the only real proof I've seen on here. Its going to take some good mods to get 300whp.
Stock GTPs get about 190whp, so with Ohio's swap exhaust, intake, and 3.4 he gained about 40whp
This is about where he'll be with a 3.8 pully
Colder plugs and tstat, free flowing everything, maybe rockers, less loss through the getrag, drop 3.8 to 3.4 and a fairly good tune and he'll be around 300whp
[This message has been edited by RideZiLightning (edited 12-10-2008).]
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05:50 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
I expected my 3.2 pulley 1.9 rockers, stock everything else 5speed to be putting down 300ish. it went 12.5's@109 driving the living hell out of it (the run before the diff jumped out of the trans) 1.71 60'. Manual transmissions boost WHP TONS.
11's? good luck. Get a decent valvetrain, 1 of the 2-3 decent manual trans tuners in the world (I dont usually tune people, zzp hasnt every tuned a manual trans setup before but I think they could manage some power out of one given enough time and money, PRJ and some cavi guys in canada are the only people that have made power out of manual trans setups), and pulley down with a whole ton of nitrous, pray and launch a 1.8 60' without the trans exploding, and you can go 11's.
You need at least 400whp to go 11's, but luckily its easy to make on a 3800 and that manual trans is a dream to tune for someone that knows what they are doing.
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06:36 PM
PURPLE REIGN Member
Posts: 4080 From: Minnesnowta ------------------ Land of White Gold Registered: Sep 2002
hey i have a 3800 with a gtp intake a supercharger on it aka top swap i assume.
my goal is about 300 rwhp..im new to these engines, i come from the world of imports..
could this be done on factory internals? and what is good mod list idea
oh and it also has a getrag 5spd...whats your guys' thoughts on that with the hp range im lookin for.
Keep in mind if that is a 3800 N/A your going to need to swap the heads to, cause the injection is different.
Your going to need what's in the signature below to achieve 11's which is an extensive mod list.
------------------ MINNESOTA MAFIA Real men get blown If you're going to run your mouth make sure the proof isn't all over the net that you're full of sh!t. 87 GT MP-112 powered, 3800 Supercharged on 19's 372 rwhp & tuning____88 GT T-top 1 of very few, 000,138.4 miles 87 GT custom______90 Grand prix STE Turbo_____2000 R-1 Race prepped Nitrous is like a hot chick with an STD, Ya want to hit it, but are afraid of the consequences. IF YOU AIN'T BREAKING STUFF..................IT AIN'T MODDED ENOUGH If your'e not living on the edge..........you're taking up too much room. Best Fiero mounts available
I just went and tried to see what you would run with 300 whp but to run in the 11s it looks like 350 whp would get you there that is a 2900 lb car and driver with perfect gearing set up for drag racing used this site http://robrobinette.com/et.htm
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07:48 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
i151, I live in huntington, so if you need any help, you can hit me up. I would be glad to help you out with your swap. I go to school, but my grandparents live in Ashland. PM me if you wanna get together. I would love to check out your car! Nick
yea man that'd be cool. the car was built (swapped) in barboursville, so u may even know the guy who did it.
as far as tuning goes theres a guy around here thats an AAA++ tuner when it comes to GM..probably one of the best ever, ive seen him get amazing numbers out of cars. its what he does for a living.
maybe i should look for a gtp motor and sit it on a stand and start a project build?....
but for this motor im thinking cam valvetrain pulley ( no idea on size) p/p blower and some sort of exhaust, not real sure about that yet. and the i/c u guys are talkin about. u talking about the heat exhanger that goes under the blower?? or what?. and where would the cooler for the heat exchanger go..
oh and whats the deal on the getrag. from what im learnin it either cant hold the power or makes a big power loss to the wheels. and if i did convert to a auto HD tranny how much more of a power loss would that b?
and im gona have to hand it to u guys. u all respond fast and come buy the hand fulls....thanks alot! when i had my eclipse there were specail forums for it and no one would even give u the time of day hardly. so my props to u guys. u all are gona make this soo much easier. and probably make me end up spending more money lol
yea man that'd be cool. the car was built (swapped) in barboursville, so u may even know the guy who did it.
as far as tuning goes theres a guy around here thats an AAA++ tuner when it comes to GM..probably one of the best ever, ive seen him get amazing numbers out of cars. its what he does for a living.
maybe i should look for a gtp motor and sit it on a stand and start a project build?....
but for this motor im thinking cam valvetrain pulley ( no idea on size) p/p blower and some sort of exhaust, not real sure about that yet. and the i/c u guys are talkin about. u talking about the heat exhanger that goes under the blower?? or what?. and where would the cooler for the heat exchanger go..
oh and whats the deal on the getrag. from what im learnin it either cant hold the power or makes a big power loss to the wheels. and if i did convert to a auto HD tranny how much more of a power loss would that b?
and im gona have to hand it to u guys. u all respond fast and come buy the hand fulls....thanks alot! when i had my eclipse there were specail forums for it and no one would even give u the time of day hardly. so my props to u guys. u all are gona make this soo much easier. and probably make me end up spending more money lol
Dsmtalk.com is fantastic along with dsmtuners.com
On the cam, just go big and forget the valvetrain if you do it
Smaller pulley = more boost
You don't really need to port the blower before IC but it does help a bit, perhaps a bit more with your motors CR
Ya, the intercooler goes between the blower and the intake manifold. The heat exchanger goes up front behind the front fascia, it is water cooled so it doesn't matter how far it travels, it'll stay cool(er)
The getrag has a low parasitic loss, around 10% compared to the 25ish with the 4t65e-hd or gtp auto. But it won't hold for very long at the power or times you are shooting for
Here's some things to consider: Cold air intake with high flow filter usually frees up 5-10hp compared to the restrictive stock setup Most swaps include new headers to replace the old, restrictive headers... 5-10hp Fieros don't have power steering compared to the car that engine came off of... P/S delete should be 10-20hp A smaller supercharger pulley should increase the boost... Intercooler will decrease boost temperature A good tune... MSD ignition and good spark plugs...
If you have the series 3 motor, you're probably at 300... series 2... maybe
[This message has been edited by Rolling Thunder (edited 12-10-2008).]
Here's some things to consider: Cold air intake with high flow filter usually frees up 5-10hp compared to the restrictive stock setup Most swaps include new headers to replace the old, restrictive headers... 5-10hp Fieros don't have power steering compared to the car that engine came off of... P/S delete should be 10-20hp A smaller supercharger pulley should increase the boost... Intercooler will decrease boost temperature A good tune... MSD ignition and good spark plugs...
If you have the series 3 motor, you're probably at 300... series 2... maybe
Noone would use msd over stock ignition and you repeated info that was already said but with less substance and accuracy lol
Replacement exhaust manifolds and whosajiggawha?
Just poking fun
[This message has been edited by RideZiLightning (edited 12-10-2008).]
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10:01 PM
Rolling Thunder Member
Posts: 1244 From: College Station, TX Registered: Aug 2008
i shoulda been more specific..the car already has no ac and no powersteering, other than that. all stock.
k maybe to make it easier we can go like money ranges..
1st time around i'd like to spend about 500-1000$. 2nd time will probably be just the heatexhanger since those are a fortune (unless im lookin in the wrong place) 3rd would be a spare motor build (internals for sure maybe headwork) and then swap the go-fast-parts on it. and put this "topswapped" motor on the stand as a back up.
and then probably sometype of trans swap or upgrade wheneever this one decides its done
maybe i should look for a gtp motor and sit it on a stand and start a project build?....
but for this motor im thinking cam valvetrain pulley ( no idea on size) p/p blower and some sort of exhaust, not real sure about that yet. and the i/c u guys are talkin about. u talking about the heat exhanger that goes under the blower?? or what?. and where would the cooler for the heat exchanger go..
oh and whats the deal on the getrag. from what im learnin it either cant hold the power or makes a big power loss to the wheels. and if i did convert to a auto HD tranny how much more of a power loss would that b?
The idea of getting another motor to build up is a good idea and with that motor put it on a 65E.
For the motor you have now and what you are looking to get out of it:
XP Cam 105 Springs P/P Blower 3 inch Mandrel exhaust 4 inch Intake Full size IC Pulley--Depends on what MODs you go with-- Good scanner--This will help determine what pulley you can run Good Tune
If you swapped to the 65E you might loose a little HP to the ground but will be able to use all the HP that the MODs put out.
i shoulda been more specific..the car already has no ac and no powersteering, other than that. all stock.
k maybe to make it easier we can go like money ranges..
1st time around i'd like to spend about 500-1000$. 2nd time will probably be just the heatexhanger since those are a fortune (unless im lookin in the wrong place) 3rd would be a spare motor build (internals for sure maybe headwork) and then swap the go-fast-parts on it. and put this "topswapped" motor on the stand as a back up.
and then probably sometype of trans swap or upgrade wheneever this one decides its done
Spend money the first go around on 3 inch mandrel exhuast, 4 inch intake, 1.9 rockers, Full size IC, P/P SC case--The 1.9 rockers, P/P SC case and IC can be had for cheaper over on CGP. Have money on hand and watch for deals to pop up on what you need.
When you get another motor--Get a low mileage motor and you will not have to worry with it except doing the head work like you mentioned.
i shoulda been more specific..the car already has no ac and no powersteering, other than that. all stock.
k maybe to make it easier we can go like money ranges..
1st time around i'd like to spend about 500-1000$. 2nd time will probably be just the heatexhanger since those are a fortune (unless im lookin in the wrong place) 3rd would be a spare motor build (internals for sure maybe headwork) and then swap the go-fast-parts on it. and put this "topswapped" motor on the stand as a back up.
and then probably sometype of trans swap or upgrade wheneever this one decides its done
If your goal is 300rwhp, you got it very easily. No A/C or P/S should free up 20-40hp. The intake and exhaust work you should do should supply another 10 or so hp. A tune should get you a few more... you don't need to do heads and intercooler to make 300rwhp. If you end up short of 300, get a smaller sc pulley.
for some reason i think it posted that twice...lol i def didnt make the same post after he said that. you guys are really helpfull. and i know that everyone probably wishes that i would just search all this instead of posting. but i get on here at work, ( my pcs done-for) and i just have about enough time to post and reply. so thanks everyone.
and on the heat exchangers, can anyone give me advice or insite on runnin the lines since they are going to be so long?..and will the pump work efficent enough?..
for some reason i think it posted that twice...lol i def didnt make the same post after he said that. you guys are really helpfull. and i know that everyone probably wishes that i would just search all this instead of posting. but i get on here at work, ( my pcs done-for) and i just have about enough time to post and reply. so thanks everyone.
and on the heat exchangers, can anyone give me advice or insite on runnin the lines since they are going to be so long?..and will the pump work efficent enough?..
It's cool, just more threads to find when people do search lol
Just run the lines along the coolant tubes underneath the car
The pump will be just fine, they have been used over and over by many different people, no worries yo
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03:38 AM
JumpStart Member
Posts: 1412 From: Central Florida Registered: Sep 2006
With the 5 speed Getrag you can be putting down 600 HP but you are only going to be able to use about 250 of that cause of the transmisson you are using. If you want big HP that you can use without haveing to worry about your trans then you better get the 65e-HD.
I totally agree with this but everyone keeps referring to too much HP for the 5spd. I know that horsepower and torque go hand in hand but I would think that the Torque is what you would need to worry more about. I could be wrong.
Stock GTPs get about 190whp, so with Ohio's swap exhaust, intake, and 3.4 he gained about 40whp
This is about where he'll be with a 3.8 pully
Colder plugs and tstat, free flowing everything, maybe rockers, less loss through the getrag, drop 3.8 to 3.4 and a fairly good tune and he'll be around 300whp
A 3.8 and 3.3 is a 90 degree motor like a 5.7. the 2.8, 3.4 is a 60 or 70 degree design.
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11:29 AM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
You are right, the more horsepower you have, the faster you can go with a manual without breaking it. It just takes 800whp to go 10's with a manual, and the same car with a auto could go 8's.
IMO the only way to make use of a manual anymore is with a turbo... Your reliability goes up decently due to the fact that it takes more effort to produce violent torque than a SC.
I personally think that blower porting and IC's and all that is a waste of time anymore... I would go un intercooled gen5 if I was to ever do anything with a m90.... Intercooling is the biggest waste of time for newbie 3800 people, 9/10 times I have only seen it decrease horsepower.
If your goal is 300rwhp, you got it very easily. No A/C or P/S should free up 20-40hp. The intake and exhaust work you should do should supply another 10 or so hp. A tune should get you a few more... you don't need to do heads and intercooler to make 300rwhp. If you end up short of 300, get a smaller sc pulley.
Please do alot more reading on here and CGP before giving any more advice on the 3800SC.
It's cool, just more threads to find when people do search lol
Just run the lines along the coolant tubes underneath the car
The pump will be just fine, they have been used over and over by many different people, no worries yo
What he said--I run the VW radiator that ZZP used to offer with there full size IC kit. When you start buying parts for your IC kit, spend the extra and get the GM/Lightning pump.
