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Back-Up light mod by 88GTFormula
Started on: 12-30-2007 10:17 PM
Replies: 28
Last post by: 88GTFormula on 01-06-2008 11:22 PM
88GTFormula
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Report this Post12-30-2007 10:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88GTFormulaClick Here to Email 88GTFormulaSend a Private Message to 88GTFormulaDirect Link to This Post
I've been kicking around the idea of adding back up lights on my GT (i'd be taking out the 2 red reflectors and putting retangular fog lights in their place)

Would this be legal first of all, if not then I'll have too keep working on the idea. If it is, then how would I go about wiring them? Could I hook them up to the taillights somehow? (Im assumiong that'd be the easiest way) what gauge wire should I use etc.

I've never done much with wiring etc. before but I've been tring to get the idea together in my head as of late...

~Tim

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Ken_86gt
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Report this Post12-30-2007 10:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Ken_86gtClick Here to Email Ken_86gtSend a Private Message to Ken_86gtDirect Link to This Post
Actually, I saw a picture of this very mod somewhere on the forum in the last several days (I could have been in the archives though). I don't see how there would be any legal issues with this. Just tap into the existing backup light wires with 16 or 18 wire and you should be fine.

Not the one I was thinking of, but it may give you some ideas:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087656.html

[This message has been edited by Ken_86gt (edited 12-30-2007).]

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DIY_Stu
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Report this Post12-30-2007 11:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DIY_StuClick Here to visit DIY_Stu's HomePageSend a Private Message to DIY_StuDirect Link to This Post
What makes the idea illegal is that you'd be removing the 4+ square inches of red reflecting material per side from the rear of the vehicle. The sweet thing about the fiero is that they use the reflectors for that reason and not having the reflector as part of the tail lights. This allows endless tail light modifications to be made but removing the reflectors would mean you'd have to add this somewhere else on the rear of the vehicle. That's the only downfall of removing them. As far as what lights to use for reverse lighting I guess you can use anything never heard of any laws about it.
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Ken_86gt
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Report this Post12-31-2007 12:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Ken_86gtClick Here to Email Ken_86gtSend a Private Message to Ken_86gtDirect Link to This Post
Yes, you are right about the requirement for reflectors, I wasn't even thinking about that- just the reverse lights. Its all here:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ca...picuity/TBMpstr.html
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Fastback 86
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Report this Post12-31-2007 01:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback 86Send a Private Message to Fastback 86Direct Link to This Post
Gotta find a cop who cares first. I replaced my reflectors with back up lights years ago and no one's said anything to me about it, cops included.
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Formula88
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Report this Post12-31-2007 01:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fastback 86:

Gotta find a cop who cares first. I replaced my reflectors with back up lights years ago and no one's said anything to me about it, cops included.


I hope you never park on the street at night. Those reflectors might keep someone from ramming into your car.
Of course, if someone did wreck your car becasue they couldn't see it at night, I doubt the cops would care about that either. Although you would be liable for any damages or injury to the person who hit your car, since your removal of a federally mandated safety device was the direct cause of the accident.

Some laws are there for a reason. Just becasue you don't get a ticket for it doesn't make it a good idea.
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Zac88GT
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Report this Post12-31-2007 02:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTDirect Link to This Post
These are mine.


My tail lights act as reflectors aswell so i think i'm in the clear.
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gem1138
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Report this Post12-31-2007 02:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gem1138Click Here to Email gem1138Send a Private Message to gem1138Direct Link to This Post
My 88GT has backup lights that are almost useless except to warn anyone behind you that you are indeed backing up.
I have been thinking about installing an array of white LEDs in their place in the hopes that they'd be brighter yet draw no more current than the incandescent bulbs.
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Xanth
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Report this Post12-31-2007 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for XanthClick Here to visit Xanth's HomePageSend a Private Message to XanthDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

I hope you never park on the street at night. Those reflectors might keep someone from ramming into your car.


Good point, I had been thinking of what the purpose of those reflectors is and that makes sense. Good reason to do mixed lights/reflectors.

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88GTFormula
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Report this Post12-31-2007 07:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88GTFormulaClick Here to Email 88GTFormulaSend a Private Message to 88GTFormulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:


I hope you never park on the street at night. Those reflectors might keep someone from ramming into your car.
Of course, if someone did wreck your car becasue they couldn't see it at night, I doubt the cops would care about that either. Although you would be liable for any damages or injury to the person who hit your car, since your removal of a federally mandated safety device was the direct cause of the accident.

Some laws are there for a reason. Just becasue you don't get a ticket for it doesn't make it a good idea.


Good point, And that I do. I live in town now... Might there be some sorta reflective material I could put on the taillight lenses (inside the clear covers) that is also translucent so the break light area wouldn't be also getting smaller?

just brainstorming and sharing my ideas
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88GTFormula
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Report this Post12-31-2007 07:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88GTFormulaClick Here to Email 88GTFormulaSend a Private Message to 88GTFormulaDirect Link to This Post

88GTFormula

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quote
Originally posted by Zac88GT:

These are mine.


My tail lights act as reflectors aswell so i think i'm in the clear.


Exactly what i've been contemplating... mind going through the process of the installation? the wiring experience...?

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frankenfiero1
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Report this Post12-31-2007 07:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for frankenfiero1Click Here to Email frankenfiero1Send a Private Message to frankenfiero1Direct Link to This Post
DOT regs do not apply to our fiero's. I do DOT's on our cranes and trucks and reflectors apply there. Look at a brand new pick-up (ford, chevy, etc). they have NO reflectors. As long as turn signals and brake lights are functional, that's all you need.

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Zac88GT
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Report this Post12-31-2007 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTDirect Link to This Post
The install procedure if very straight forward. Just remove the old reflector, cut the back out of the hole, drill a hole in either side for the mounting screws and wire them up. Since they're 55watt driving lights i had to wire them up through a relay using the original reverse light wiring as the trigger.

I'm pretty sure these are the ones i used. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...dZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

[This message has been edited by Zac88GT (edited 12-31-2007).]

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carnut122
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Report this Post12-31-2007 09:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carnut122Send a Private Message to carnut122Direct Link to This Post
Zac88GT,

Thanks for posting this. It's what I was looking for on mine too!
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Ken_86gt
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Report this Post01-01-2008 12:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Ken_86gtClick Here to Email Ken_86gtSend a Private Message to Ken_86gtDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by frankenfiero1:

DOT regs do not apply to our fiero's. I do DOT's on our cranes and trucks and reflectors apply there. Look at a brand new pick-up (ford, chevy, etc). they have NO reflectors. As long as turn signals and brake lights are functional, that's all you need.



How could Fiero's be exempt from the rules? Many cars have reflectors as part of the tail light lens, so its not obvious that there is one.
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fierosound
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Report this Post01-01-2008 12:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DIY_Stu:

What makes the idea illegal is that you'd be removing the 4+ square inches of red reflecting material per side from the rear of the vehicle.



Most cars don't have any reflectors on the rear as far as I can see. Guess I'll have to look again at other cars in traffic tonight. - by the way - Happy New Year!

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Fastback 86
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Report this Post01-01-2008 01:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback 86Send a Private Message to Fastback 86Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:


I hope you never park on the street at night. Those reflectors might keep someone from ramming into your car.
Of course, if someone did wreck your car becasue they couldn't see it at night, I doubt the cops would care about that either. Although you would be liable for any damages or injury to the person who hit your car, since your removal of a federally mandated safety device was the direct cause of the accident.

Some laws are there for a reason. Just becasue you don't get a ticket for it doesn't make it a good idea.


If someone manages to take my car out while its parked on the side of the street at night, it won't be because it didn't have reflectors. I can't even imagine a case in which a sober, awake, alert person could veer enough out of their lane to hit a parked car. Besides that, I very much doubt any cop on the scene or otherwise is going to know that there were supposed to be reflectors there. On top of it all, my tail lights have built in reflectors that work perfectly fine. So I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
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Report this Post01-01-2008 04:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Cancer ResearcherSend a Private Message to Cancer ResearcherDirect Link to This Post
88gtneverfinished did this. looks great

[This message has been edited by Cancer Researcher (edited 01-01-2008).]

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88GTFormula
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Report this Post01-01-2008 07:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88GTFormulaClick Here to Email 88GTFormulaSend a Private Message to 88GTFormulaDirect Link to This Post
If I may, I also found a thread where this mod. has been done, and even found a how-to tech section '88gtneverfinished website'

http://www.parlow.org/fiero/ - Stevens Fiero is also for sale BTW
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...010116-1-002562.html

There's alot of good info. for me to do the install now as well as some of you that are interested in it. Read up
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bonzo
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Report this Post01-01-2008 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bonzoClick Here to Email bonzoSend a Private Message to bonzoDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by frankenfiero1:

DOT regs do not apply to our fiero's. I do DOT's on our cranes and trucks and reflectors apply there. Look at a brand new pick-up (ford, chevy, etc). they have NO reflectors. As long as turn signals and brake lights are functional, that's all you need.



That is not true. The reflectors on newer vehicles are integrated into the lights. Take a high candlepower flashlight and hit some of the cars in your neighborhood. You'll see what I mean. How do you do DOT's? Department Of Transportation. The reflectors are for disabled or parked vehicles. Functioning lights are useles on a parked car with the lights off.
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Report this Post01-01-2008 10:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fastback 86:


If someone manages to take my car out while its parked on the side of the street at night, it won't be because it didn't have reflectors. I can't even imagine a case in which a sober, awake, alert person could veer enough out of their lane to hit a parked car. Besides that, I very much doubt any cop on the scene or otherwise is going to know that there were supposed to be reflectors there. On top of it all, my tail lights have built in reflectors that work perfectly fine. So I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.


I think reflectors in some form are a good idea. I wouldn't want someone to remove them without even considering the risk.
At least you made an informed decision.
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Report this Post01-04-2008 04:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for gryphon025Send a Private Message to gryphon025Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Ken_86gt:

Yes, you are right about the requirement for reflectors, I wasn't even thinking about that- just the reverse lights. Its all here:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ca...picuity/TBMpstr.html


These regulations do not apply to regular passenger vehichles. When they say Truck, Bus, and MPV they are talking about Semi's, Busses, and Motor Homes.

 
quote
Originally posted by bonzo:


That is not true. The reflectors on newer vehicles are integrated into the lights. Take a high candlepower flashlight and hit some of the cars in your neighborhood. You'll see what I mean. How do you do DOT's? Department Of Transportation. The reflectors are for disabled or parked vehicles. Functioning lights are useles on a parked car with the lights off.


You are right. I don't remember the exact year that this went into effect, but any DOT approved tail light made in the last few years at least will also serve as a reflector. The good news is that if you are doing this in conjuction with a tail light mod such as using the round LED's commonly found on Semi's it will have a reflective property. If you are still running your factory tail lights then you are technically not legal.

Update:
There is a spray-on clearcoat in a rattle can available at most parts stores called Nite Lites (spelled correctly) that is similar to the coating on streat signs which may be reflective enough for the factory lights to be safe, but it would still not be legal.

[This message has been edited by gryphon025 (edited 01-04-2008).]

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Kuta
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Report this Post01-04-2008 09:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KutaClick Here to visit Kuta's HomePageSend a Private Message to KutaDirect Link to This Post
Cool site,

here is a direct link to the mod w/o spdt relay: http://www.parlow.org/fiero/back_up.htm
& another tail-light mod which looks spiffy: http://www.parlow.org/fiero/tailights.htm
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Kuta
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Report this Post01-04-2008 09:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KutaClick Here to visit Kuta's HomePageSend a Private Message to KutaDirect Link to This Post
dbl post

[This message has been edited by Kuta (edited 01-04-2008).]

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Hank is Here
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Report this Post01-04-2008 10:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Hank is HereClick Here to Email Hank is HereSend a Private Message to Hank is HereDirect Link to This Post
I would not replace the reflectors with lights not beacuse of removing the reflectors but because folks would not be able to tell you are pulling out of a space in a parking lot. Since the reflectors are receesed into the bumper cover the lights could only be seen from directly behind the car and not from the sides where other cars whill be going up and down the isles.

Just a thought.
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gt88norm
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Report this Post01-05-2008 03:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for gt88normSend a Private Message to gt88normDirect Link to This Post
I think those are bright enough that that's a non issue, 55W haogens!

Norm
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Report this Post01-05-2008 07:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tvelardeClick Here to visit tvelarde's HomePageSend a Private Message to tvelardeDirect Link to This Post
I am a self-confessed light nut and I did a driving light addition to a 88 Formula/GT a few years ago. I also wired a switch in place that allows me to turn the lights on anytime. The lights are one of the standard driving light kits that are readily available virtually anywhere.

A link to this install and some of my electrical incantations is located at http://www.v8-fiero.us/fier...cal_and_lighting.htm

The site is dedicated to my Fieros and various V8 installations and other modifications I ome up with or find here.
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Zac88GT
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Report this Post01-05-2008 10:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hank is Here:

I would not replace the reflectors with lights not beacuse of removing the reflectors but because folks would not be able to tell you are pulling out of a space in a parking lot. Since the reflectors are receesed into the bumper cover the lights could only be seen from directly behind the car and not from the sides where other cars whill be going up and down the isles.
Just a thought.


The lights are not recessed into the bumper very much, infact they are almost perfectly flush. Trust me, turning on these puppies is like haveing another set of headlights in the back. It makes it wonderful to reverse at night and there is no possible way someone would not see them if you were backing up.
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88GTFormula
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Report this Post01-06-2008 11:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88GTFormulaClick Here to Email 88GTFormulaSend a Private Message to 88GTFormulaDirect Link to This Post
maybe i could cover the lowest red strip on each of the fastback taillight lenses to still have reflectors... just not as visable

reflective red tape...
http://www.3mestore.com/hig...ted-tape-9088fl.html

thoughts / comments on the tape?

i can do an illustration if the way i explained it doesn't make sence... lemmie know
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