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And another N* swap! by crzyone
Started on: 03-10-2005 07:46 PM
Replies: 161
Last post by: crzyone on 08-14-2008 06:16 PM
crzyone
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Report this Post03-10-2005 07:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post

Well I just spent 2 days on the road picking up my new motor. Its an complete K frame from an 03 N*.

I hope to have it on the road this summer so I will have to get my but in gear and start tearing it down.

I will be using a chrfab computer and wiring harness, which I think is my only option with this new of a N*. I will also install a getrag 5 speed to replace the muncie 4 speed. I will mount the motor to the muncie first, just to take pictures of why it won't work. I've heard that the shifter cables will hit.

Here are pics as it sits right now.



I will be updating this as I progress, taking pictures as I go for any future installers.

------------------

Buy a fiero, become a mechanic

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Kohburn
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Report this Post03-10-2005 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post

3.4tdc just not enough eh?

I was going northstar then decided to go 3.4tdc for the quicker cheaper swap..

northstar is still my dream engine after a couple mods to let it rev happily

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crzyone
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Report this Post03-10-2005 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post

Well, my ultimate goal was always for 400hp in my fiero, with some cams, springs and retainers this motor will be right up there. 400hp from a 3.4tdc would mean turbo. I've always wanted a N* so this is the route I'm taking. A low 12 second aluminum dohc V-8 fiero is just cool

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The Aura
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Report this Post03-10-2005 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The AuraClick Here to Email The AuraSend a Private Message to The AuraDirect Link to This Post

Good luck bro! I'm sure you'll be satisfied with the results

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crzyone
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Report this Post03-10-2005 08:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post

How sweet is that. Go away for 2 days, check the mail and find these wating for you

In a few days my spec stage 3 clutch should be ariving.

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DelawareFiero
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Report this Post03-10-2005 09:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DelawareFieroClick Here to Email DelawareFieroSend a Private Message to DelawareFieroDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by crzyone:

Well, my ultimate goal was always for 400hp in my fiero, with some cams, springs and retainers this motor will be right up there. 400hp from a 3.4tdc would mean turbo. I've always wanted a N* so this is the route I'm taking. A low 12 second aluminum dohc V-8 fiero is just cool

Damn right. If youre gonna do it do it right.

ANYONE can slap some juice on a engine, or a turbo, and think they are hot sh!t.

plus you wont have to worry about filling up our bottle....or your nos fuse blowing.

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crzyone
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Report this Post03-10-2005 09:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post

I was looking at my engine and noticed that the coil arangement is unlike any N* I've seen yet. They had coil packs, coil per cylinder but this 03 engine has this

Looks nice and clean, no wires or coils visible. Also looks expensive.. Hopefully those heat sinks on the heads work well enough in a hot fiero bay. May have to install a mustang scoop on the deck for additional air movement.

[This message has been edited by crzyone (edited 03-12-2005).]

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GT
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Report this Post03-11-2005 06:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GTClick Here to Email GTSend a Private Message to GTDirect Link to This Post

I REALLY like the looks of that new N*. The ignition system looks like what they used on the quad 4s. The guys on the Grand Am list complain about what a PITA they are as far as reliability on the Quad 4. But I'm sure GM has worked the bugs out enough to feel comfortable using it on their flagship engine, ya know?

If you're concerned about heat and you've spent a small inheritance on a Northstar, maybe think about having your manifolds and possibly your whole exhaust Jet Hot coated (ceramic coating). It significantly decreases underhood temps and the manufacturer claims it can add up to 3% more HP. I was quoted $199 for them to do it to my 4.9 factory manifolds. They treat the exhaust inside and out.

-Rick

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Kohburn
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Report this Post03-11-2005 07:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by GT:
If you're concerned about heat and you've spent a small inheritance on a Northstar, maybe think about having your manifolds and possibly your whole exhaust Jet Hot coated (ceramic coating).

honestly I could have picked up a low miles northstar or a 3800SC cheaper than my 3.4TDC
but decided it wasn't quite right for me at this time..

I'd love to get a ride in one though - you ARE gonna have it up and runnign for Carlisle right? lol

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crzyone
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Report this Post03-11-2005 07:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post

I might have it running by then, but that would be one heck of a drive

Just looking in my engine bay I can see that all the mods I did for the 3.4tdc are going to work great for the N*. The fuel lines are even in about the same location. May have to trim alittle more of the passenger side deck hinge though. With the new spark plug covers this motor should look like a pretty clean install, it did not come with the caddy beauty cover but I never planned on using one anyways.

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Kohburn
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Report this Post03-11-2005 07:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by crzyone:

I might have it running by then, but that would be one heck of a drive

Just looking in my engine bay I can see that all the mods I did for the 3.4tdc are going to work great for the N*. The fuel lines are even in about the same location. May have to trim alittle more of the passenger side deck hinge though. With the new spark plug covers this motor should look like a pretty clean install, it did not come with the caddy beauty cover but I never planned on using one anyways.

good to know that it may be an easier future upgrade from the 3.4 tdc...
as for the beauty cover.. you bet.. i think it looks a lot more menacing without that covering up the untake runners. get em painted up real nice and show off that DOHC v8

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fierogurl
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Report this Post03-11-2005 12:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogurlSend a Private Message to fierogurlDirect Link to This Post

Hey, they didn't give you the cover?? If you want it, I'll see if I can nab it for you. The guy probably kept it to hang on his wall. Sounds like you're happy with your purchase so far! I'm glad it worked out for you.

B

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Report this Post03-11-2005 12:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by crzyone:

Well, my ultimate goal was always for 400hp in my fiero

...taking the long way around to get there with reguards to all the different engine swaps that you have started

4.9, LT1, DOHC, N*,...which one is next?

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 03-11-2005).]

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Report this Post03-11-2005 01:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Master Tuner AkimotoClick Here to visit Master Tuner Akimoto's HomePageSend a Private Message to Master Tuner AkimotoDirect Link to This Post

Maybe a 454 ?????

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post03-11-2005 03:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by crzyone:

I was looking at my engine and noticed that the coil arangement is unlike any N* I've seen yet. They had coil packs, coild per cylinder but this 03 engine has this

Looks nice and clean, no wires or coils visible. Also looks expensive.. Hopefully those heat sinks on the heads work well enough in a hot fiero bay. May have to install a mustang scoop on the deck for additional air movement.


This is exactly how the 3.5 Short Star has its coil packs. The S* has used that type of ingnition before the N* started using it.
i can change plugs faster now with the S* than I did with the stock 2.8.
but I did not need to cut any of the deck lid hinge and I still have the stock deck lid springs in there
I would like to do a N* in my next project.

------------------

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Report this Post03-11-2005 03:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Elenor84Click Here to visit Elenor84's HomePageClick Here to Email Elenor84Send a Private Message to Elenor84Direct Link to This Post

Very cool! Welcome to the V8 club. Can't wait to check it out this summer at one of the meetings.

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crzyone
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Report this Post03-11-2005 04:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post

Tim, hopefully this one I will stick with. I think I just have too much fun when I'm taking things apart

Brittany, don't worry about the cover. I like the looks of the intake runner as it is. Its a very clean looking motor without any covers.

Lance, if I get it up and running this summer we will have to give eachother rides, never been in a 4.9 fiero before.

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Report this Post03-11-2005 05:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Blue ShiftClick Here to Email Blue ShiftSend a Private Message to Blue ShiftDirect Link to This Post

Sweet dude! DOHC addiction huh? I dreamed of a northstar with some CHRFab valve springs and cams, but I finally wisened up and decided that as a 22 year old poor college student that it'll be miraculous if I pull my TDC project off sucessfully, much less a Northstar. Someday though...

Though it's not my place, I would ask that you take a billion pictures and document the hell out of it - I'm sure quite a few people on here really want to see how it goes in, and what's involved! I'll be watching...

------------------
Chris

Blue 1987 GT Getrag 5 speed, 1" lowering springs, 225 50R16 rims and tires, Fiero Store 9 3/4" HD clutch (Halfway through a 3.4L TDC Swap!) Silver 1986 2m4 THM 125c automatic (Current commuter)
Black 1985 2m4 SE Isuzu 5 speed (no paperwork)

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Report this Post03-11-2005 06:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cptsnoopyClick Here to Email cptsnoopySend a Private Message to cptsnoopyDirect Link to This Post

did you already talk to alan Johnson at chrfab? I am wondering what computer and wiring harness setup your going to get. be sure to look around for the "link" computer to see if one is available...

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crzyone
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Report this Post03-11-2005 07:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post

I've been exchanging e-mails with Alan and this is what he had to say

Anyway, we can run the engine with a Delphi MEFE 4 or a new computer system I will handle
shortly, the Big Stuff 3. This is from the guy that designed the Commander
950, Axcel DFI, and the FAST systems. I am not happy with the Electromotive
equipment any longer.
Alan

I e-mailed him back trying to find out what the new system is and cost. Since I won't need it for a few months anyways, it might be worth it to wait and see what they get.

Chris, I'll try my best to document this swap well, but sometimes I get on a roll and forget to take pics. I'll definitly have more information than my 3.4dohc install.

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befarrer
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Report this Post03-11-2005 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for befarrerClick Here to Email befarrerSend a Private Message to befarrerDirect Link to This Post

WOW, I was curious as to how a 3.4 TDC GT compared to my Base coupe Quad 4 Fiero on the performance, but I guess I wont find out now. I wont even bother with that engine.

And hey, we are almost neighbours, probably less than 30 miles from your place. This is something I would definately want a ride in.

Hey, how many miles were on that motor? Looks brand new.

And the ignition looks the same as my Quad, my ignition module and both coils are mounted under the IDI cover (the thing that says Quad 4), then these little plastic things clip to it and the plugs, I can see all that since I have 2 seperate cam towers.

What happened to your 3.4L? Sold it?

Good luck with that.

------------------

84 Fiero Sport Coupe #1192 :: 86 Fiero Base Coupe :: 84 Chevette CS 4 DoorDetails on my Fiero hereMember of the Edmonto Fiero Club

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crzyone
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Report this Post03-11-2005 08:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post

3.4 is currently for sale, you can check the edmonton or calgary fiero boards for my ad.

If you ever feel like taking a road trip you are more than welcome to come check it out. The motor has around 31K miles on it, just broken in. I want to get out there and work on it, but I'm at work all week... 3 days, one off, 3 nights.. hellweek!

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fierogurl
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Report this Post03-11-2005 11:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogurlSend a Private Message to fierogurlDirect Link to This Post

I'm very interested in keeping tabs on your progress. I know this wasn't my motor (sigh - what a shame that one was) but since I had a hand in you getting it, its kind of neat seeing how things go But I'm not too familiar with these forums... is there some way for me to get notified when someone posts here? Or am I stuck having to remember to come look every once in a while? On other forums I've seen a "subscribe to this thread" button but I don't see one here.

- B

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DelawareFiero
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Report this Post03-12-2005 01:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DelawareFieroClick Here to Email DelawareFieroSend a Private Message to DelawareFieroDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fierogurl:

I'm very interested in keeping tabs on your progress. I know this wasn't my motor (sigh - what a shame that one was) but since I had a hand in you getting it, its kind of neat seeing how things go But I'm not too familiar with these forums... is there some way for me to get notified when someone posts here? Or am I stuck having to remember to come look every once in a while? On other forums I've seen a "subscribe to this thread" button but I don't see one here.

- B

Once you are logged on to Pennocks, you will see a star to the left of each thread. If youre not logged on you wont see anything.
You click on the star to add the threads to your favorite posts. Your saved threads will be at the top of the page in each section (tech, mall, gfc, ot,) everytime you log on.
So you dont have to search. Kinda like a bookmark for favorite threads.

Hope That helped.

[This message has been edited by DelawareFiero (edited 03-12-2005).]

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fierogurl
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Report this Post03-12-2005 04:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogurlSend a Private Message to fierogurlDirect Link to This Post

So there is no subscription then. Seems odd, since every other forum on the planet seems to have that feature. Oh well, I've added to my favs and I'll check in from time to time. Thanks guys!

-B

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crzyone
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Report this Post03-27-2005 09:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post

Well a small update. I recieved my spec stage 3 in the mail about a week ago. Much stronger and heavier looking than the 2.8 clutch that I broke in half with the 3.4dohc. The Spec clutch I recieved is the 6 puck design, although I thought the stage 3 was a 4 puck. Their site shows the stage 4 as being a 6 puck. Anyone else's like this?

I pulled the motor from the transmission today, alot more work than it looks like. The motor/transmission are physically huge and hard to manuver around. Here is the motor off of the transmission.

I'm glad to be getting rid of this huge beast. Atleast 250lbs, and probibly another 40lbs for the flexplate and torque converter. I will be trading it for a rebuilt fiero getrag 5 speed, this motor needs a stick.

Welcome to my nightmare part 2. I will definitly be getting an aftermarket wiring harness. This one has what looks to be twice the connectors that the 3.4dohc had. A wiring nightmare. It will be nice to get rid of all the sensors and wires that I won't be needing.

In a few days I will have more days off and will continue this thread. Next up is dismantling the fiero engine cradle, cleaning it up and modifying the front crossmember so I can use the stock caddy front mount. I will be solid mounting this motor to the cradle. I will take pictures as I go.

ps. air tools are niiiiice.

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Report this Post03-27-2005 09:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJClick Here to Email PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post

Looking great! I love watching built threads with pics. Keep them coming! You did good dollar wise on your old 4T80e, mine went for $85.00 on ebay but I was still glad to get rid of the huge slug.

Pete

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crzyone
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Report this Post03-31-2005 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post

Thanks Pete, been following your thread as well.


Well I got the engine cradle taken apart today and now I will show why the 4 speed muncie will not work with a N*.

This picture is hard to see, the second one shows it better.

As you can see, the shifter cable bracket will be where the waterpump housing is on the N*. So, looks like I will definitly need a getrag 5 speed.

Does anyone have a picture of a getrag shifter cable bracket? Would like to see how it differs from the 4 speed. Thanks!

[This message has been edited by crzyone (edited 04-05-2005).]

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THE BEAST
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Report this Post04-14-2005 03:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for THE BEASTClick Here to Email THE BEASTSend a Private Message to THE BEASTDirect Link to This Post

crzyone,
Is good to see your N* swap coming together!
BTW as far as the wire-harness you should contact "Will" you can PM him and he could make you a wire-harness to work with your car.

He is pretty reasonable with his pricing!

Take care!
JG

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madcurl
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Report this Post04-14-2005 03:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlClick Here to Email madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlDirect Link to This Post

Looks good. Whats the transmission ..275 or 300? How many miles did the engine/tranny have?

Are you selling the tranny? How much?

------------------

Archie's Choptop conversion #11, #15, Redux & The Stealth

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Report this Post04-14-2005 04:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by crzyone:

Thanks Pete, been following your thread as well.


Well I got the engine cradle taken apart today and now I will show why the 4 speed muncie will not work with a N*.

This picture is hard to see, the second one shows it better.

As you can see, the shifter cable bracket will be where the waterpump housing is on the N*. So, looks like I will definitly need a getrag 5 speed.

Does anyone have a picture of a getrag shifter cable bracket? Would like to see how it differs from the 4 speed. Thanks!

I'm actually making a new shifter cable holder bracket to allow the 4speed to be used witht he stock 3.4tdc crossover - it may work with the northstar too..

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crzyone
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Report this Post04-14-2005 05:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post

Well, its comming along slowly. I have my flywheel at the machine shop which should be done any time now.

I will be using an aftermarket pcm from chrfab called The Big Stuff 3. It will cost $2500us, it comes with a wide band O2 sensor, pre-made wiring harness with all connectors and is self tuning. I figured I got such a good deal on the motor that I can spend extra on the pcm. This is what Alan had to say about the big stuff 3

"Yes, most all of the harness has connectors already installed. Just plug
them in and terminate the others into the battery, tach, fuel pump, etc.
The computer will be running on a wide band O2 sensor and it also has self
tuning capabilities. So you shouldn't need to spend money at a dyno shop,
unless you just want to!"
Alan

Madcurl, all I know is the trani is a 4T80e, and has around 30k miles on it. I will be trading it with a guy thats close by, he is rebuilding me a Getrag 5 speed.

I'd like to see how you are modifying the 4 speed Kohburn, but the shifter bracket would have to come out a long way to clear the waterlog on the northstar. It sticks out 3-4" from the block.

To be Continued...

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crzyone
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Report this Post04-15-2005 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post

Got my flywheel back today, looks pretty good. I was considering the aluminum flywheel but I figured a steel one would offer a little more drivability with the grabby spec stage 3.

Now all I need is a transmission so I can start fabbing my engine mounts.

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buds
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Report this Post04-15-2005 09:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for budsSend a Private Message to budsDirect Link to This Post

Nice job so far...Looks like your doing it right, I think I'm going 3800 SC route but man I'd love to do the northstar swap

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Report this Post04-15-2005 11:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SourmugSend a Private Message to SourmugDirect Link to This Post

Looking good. I'm sure you'll be happy with the N*

Nolan

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Report this Post04-16-2005 02:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Elenor84Click Here to visit Elenor84's HomePageClick Here to Email Elenor84Send a Private Message to Elenor84Direct Link to This Post

Hey man, Looking great! But whats the story? First the 3.4, then the Interceptor engine, now a northstar??? Which engine will this car finally end up with???

I'm very excited for you to get this in. Any chance of a ride in this car this summer? I think the next engine swap I will do is a northstar but I would love see how it feels....

Keep up the good work!

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crzyone
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Report this Post04-16-2005 02:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post

Well, there is a pretty good chance it will be done for the Calgary show, but doubtful for the Red Deer run.

I've always wanted a N*, and the other motors kind of fell into my lap. First was the 4.9 which Tim now has, the LT1 that I traded for the 3.4dohc. Then I Bought the N* for a bargain so I sold the 3.4dohc that I had out of the car due to a broken clutch.

So, the car will end up with the N*, which I think is the ultimate motor for the fiero.

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Report this Post04-17-2005 06:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post

Got some painting done today. The valve covers were different colors from factory and didn't look all that great. Here are some pictures.

This is the Intake before. I sanded down some casting marks and gave it a couple coats of Cast Iron Grey paint. Since I won't be using the beauty cover I wanted the top of the motor to look good. I picked these colors because I think it will look pretty menacing with the deck lid open.

and after

The coil packs were also different colors so I painted both to match the intake.

I painted the fuel rail silver and reassembled the motor, this is the end result.

[This message has been edited by crzyone (edited 04-17-2005).]

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Report this Post04-17-2005 07:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post

I started working on the fuel line connections to the fuel rail. I'm basically doing them the same way I did them for my 3.4dohc. On the N* fuel rail both lines are 3/8" and on the fiero the supply is 3/8" and the return line is 5/16". So I went out and bought 2 pieces of fuel line made for fuel line repair that look like this. You can get them at your local auto parts store.


I then cut fuel rail on a nice straight piece and cut the new fuel line to length and I will use a compression fitting to couple the lines together.

On the return line on the rail, after the fuel pressure regulator I will use a compression fitting reducer that goes from 3/8 on one end to 5/16 on the other so that I can use the stock fiero rubber fuel lines that I already have made up from the 3.4 conversion. I will try and get a picture of the fuel lines sometime.

So thats pretty much as in depth as I will get into the fuel system. I will be using a 94 Corvette LT1 fuel pump which is a direct replacement for the fiero fuel pump and is good for 255lph. The corvette is also 300hp so its a good match.

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Report this Post04-18-2005 09:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post

I bought the compression fittings tonight, so if anyone is wondering what they look like or how they work this picture will help. The fitting slides over both ends of the pipes and when you tighten up the nuts, it clamps its self onto the tubing. Very easy to use and convenient.

Don't mind the blurry picture, my camera sucks at focusing up close.

And here is the picture of my fuel lines how they were routed for the 3.4dohc. I think I will pull the fuel lines from my 4cyl parts car just because they look and fit alittle better than mine. This is also where the northstars fuel lines hook up.

I should be getting my rebuilt 5 speed on Friday and then I can really get into this swap. I hate waiting

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