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LS2 Dyno run by Doc John
Started on: 11-22-2007 08:53 AM
Replies: 111
Last post by: Will on 12-03-2007 10:39 AM
Archie
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Report this Post11-25-2007 01:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageClick Here to Email ArchieSend a Private Message to ArchieDirect Link to This Post








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darkhorizon
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Report this Post11-25-2007 03:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
all I have to say, is it is fairly impossible to say that a RWD manual transmission, and a giant independent rear end, complete with CV axles and giant tires (compared to a fiero sized tire) creates similar loss as a FWD GM transmission. In a FWD trans, you have 3 shafts, each of which are quite light and small, that directly transfer power to the CV axles, while in a RWD setup, you have a heavy driveshaft, and a rear end gear that does converting, along with a direction converter in the RWD trans bolted to the motor.

The power changes directions many times in a RWD setup, while it in essence does not in a FWD trans. (dont flame the details here guys, I might be a bit off so just correct me if I am wrong in my thinking)
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Alex4mula
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Report this Post11-25-2007 09:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:
...correct me if I am wrong in my thinking)


In V8 threads you are always wrong dude. Because you are the V8 threads troll king Re-read the thread again and find hints. But instead of asking to prove you wrong why don't you prove yourself right instead of so much blaah blah blah theories? You are the one who needs the prove. Most here have it already
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Doc John
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Report this Post11-25-2007 09:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

all I have to say, is it is fairly impossible to say that a RWD manual transmission, and a giant independent rear end, complete with CV axles and giant tires (compared to a fiero sized tire) creates similar loss as a FWD GM transmission. In a FWD trans, you have 3 shafts, each of which are quite light and small, that directly transfer power to the CV axles, while in a RWD setup, you have a heavy driveshaft, and a rear end gear that does converting, along with a direction converter in the RWD trans bolted to the motor.

The power changes directions many times in a RWD setup, while it in essence does not in a FWD trans. (dont flame the details here guys, I might be a bit off so just correct me if I am wrong in my thinking)



On the contrary: the owners of HP works (who look to have about 50 years of hot rodding experience between them) commented that a transaxle will experience greater parasitic drivetrain loss than a conventional longitudinal transmission setup.

I am inclined to believe them - I have a lot of respect for professionals with real-world experience.

[This message has been edited by Doc John (edited 11-25-2007).]

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Billybo455
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Report this Post11-25-2007 10:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Billybo455Click Here to Email Billybo455Send a Private Message to Billybo455Direct Link to This Post
looks good so far. let's see some outside pics.

here's how the power thing breaks down. starting with the most power robbing.

complete rwd>complete fwd>rwd only tranny

reason being

the rwd tranny is pretty damn efficient all by itself. but you can't just use the tranny to get power to the ground. once you start adding in all of the parasitic loss of the driveshaft and rear end is what makes it lose most of it's efficiency. rear ends are a whole new beast all together. i'm sure everyone here has heard of the "ford 9 inch" rear end. say you have a car that makes 500rwhp with the ford 9" rear end. swap into a 8.8" rear end and that same car would put down 540-560 rwhp with no other mods....

i had a reason thought out to why i was explaining that, but ive been side tracked and forgot. hoped that helps someone

[This message has been edited by Billybo455 (edited 11-25-2007).]

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aaronrus
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Report this Post11-25-2007 10:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronrusClick Here to Email aaronrusSend a Private Message to aaronrusDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Doc John:
On the contrary: the owners of HP works (who look to have about 50 years of hot rodding experience between them) commented that a transaxle will experience greater parasitic drivetrain loss than a conventional longitudinal transmission setup.

I am inclined to believe them - I have a lot of respect for professionals with real-world experience.



actually, i am going to completely back up DH here even though i think he's a complete A$$. whereever you read that longitudinal transaxles transfer more power to the wheels than transverse transaxles is COMPLETELY wrong. the physics of that are impossible. now, MAYBE those guys said that because in a longitudinal setup, more power is transfered to the ground because theload on the wheels is transfered to the rear of the vehicle when a car accelerates forward. Since MOST transverse mounted setups are FWD, this makes sense. much more power is lost between the wheels and the ground in a transverse setup than is in a longitudinal RWD setup.

[This message has been edited by aaronrus (edited 11-25-2007).]

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Formula88
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Report this Post11-25-2007 11:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
Well, this has certainly been educational. I've learned that horsepower is apparently a fluid and flows better in a straight line, because each time it changes direction, you lose flow. I've learned that people who've never done anything with a V8 Fiero are apparently more experienced with them than people who've built them for 20 years. And of course, it's just reiterated the already well known fact that anytime Archie builds a car or a SBC owner makes any post, a gaggle of baggers will show up to talk smack and act like they know more than they do. It must be piston envy. You don't see V8 owners trashing V6 threads on a regular basis because the typical V8 owner doesn't give a crap what you run in your car, but it appears many V6 owners are so insecure about their equipment that they have to try and talk trash about any V8 they find to make them feel better about themselves.

So, does RFT give out "I trolled a V8 thread" merit badges now? You guys must be so proud.
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Archie
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Report this Post11-25-2007 11:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageClick Here to Email ArchieSend a Private Message to ArchieDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Billybo455:











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Billybo455
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Report this Post11-25-2007 11:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Billybo455Click Here to Email Billybo455Send a Private Message to Billybo455Direct Link to This Post
car looks great. i bet it's a beast to drive around with the LS2. ever think of taking it to the strip? i would imagine with the power you put down the car should be a low 12 high 11 car if you could hook up.

hey archie, i really like the targo top setup on that car. i have a t top car now, how hard would it be for you to do something of that sort to my car?

sorry for the hyjacking.
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Zac88GT
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Report this Post11-25-2007 01:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTDirect Link to This Post
What fuel pump are you running?
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Doc John
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Report this Post11-25-2007 03:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Billybo455:

car looks great. i bet it's a beast to drive around with the LS2. ever think of taking it to the strip? i would imagine with the power you put down the car should be a low 12 high 11 car if you could hook up.

hey archie, i really like the targo top setup on that car. i have a t top car now, how hard would it be for you to do something of that sort to my car?

sorry for the hyjacking.


The targa was made by Randy Corson. He used to make Fiero based replicas of the Ferrari Boxer Berlinetta. He introduced his Targa kit late in his production run, he's been out of business for about 10 years. One thing to remember about a Targa or a convertible is that you really take a lot of the strength out of the car when you cut the top off, and need to restore it somehow. There are "C" clips welded in around the doors on my car (all hidden by the body, thankfully). Randy also supplied an "X" frame which bolted on underneath the car. This piece really wasn't stong enough, and the car began to sag in the middle. About 5 years ago I tossed the X frame and had Fiero Bob from Twin Lakes (also now out of business) weld in one of Archie's convertible support frames. This piece pulls the front and rear subframes together. No more sagging.

T-tops are pretty much immune from this whole issue - if I could have found a T top kit when I was looking at the Targa kit, I would have gone for the T top in a heartbeat and saved some grief.
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Doc John
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Report this Post11-25-2007 03:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnDirect Link to This Post

Doc John

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quote
Originally posted by Zac88GT:

What fuel pump are you running?


AC Delco EP 242, Buick Grand National pump.
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Billybo455
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Report this Post11-25-2007 04:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Billybo455Click Here to Email Billybo455Send a Private Message to Billybo455Direct Link to This Post
that's not what i wanted to hear oh well. cool ride still!!!
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Archie
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Report this Post11-26-2007 09:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageClick Here to Email ArchieSend a Private Message to ArchieDirect Link to This Post
What do ya know John.

Looks like you got your thread back.

The haters moved on.

You can show the rest of your pics, if you want.

Archie
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Doc John
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Report this Post11-26-2007 09:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnDirect Link to This Post
They must have gotten bored.
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Formula88
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Report this Post11-26-2007 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
Yay! More pics, please!!
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Doc John
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Report this Post11-26-2007 09:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnDirect Link to This Post
I'll have to look through my hard drive for them - I have a whole file that I can't seem to find.
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Report this Post11-26-2007 09:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Direct Link to This Post
That is a sweet setup!! Love the rebody and the motor is the icing on the cake. I will do an LSx motor one of these days...when the wallet can recover a bit.
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crazyd
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Report this Post11-26-2007 09:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crazydClick Here to visit crazyd's HomePageSend a Private Message to crazydDirect Link to This Post


Do you steer it with the force?
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Doc John
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Report this Post11-26-2007 09:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnDirect Link to This Post
Close! Actually that is a Grant removable steering wheel. The hub installs between the column and and aftermarket Grant wheel. It's an anti theft gimmick.
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Doc John
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Report this Post11-26-2007 09:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnDirect Link to This Post

Doc John

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Here's a picture from 1988, on the beach in Long Beach, WA:


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Doc John
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Report this Post12-01-2007 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnDirect Link to This Post
Found a couple more photos:


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Doc John
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Report this Post12-01-2007 06:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnDirect Link to This Post

Doc John

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And here's one from the weekly car show at a Burger King in Manassas, VA. The question I seem to get every time I'm there: "Why'd you put a Corvette engine in a Ferrari? I guess it must be a lot more reliable..." Then I explain the whole kit car saga.

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Report this Post12-01-2007 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
That is one of the best looking Ferrari kits I've seen. Unless you're into Ferraris and know the subtle differences, there's nothing to really tip off someone that it's a kit.
Very well done, indeed.
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Doc John
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Report this Post12-01-2007 07:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

That is one of the best looking Ferrari kits I've seen. Unless you're into Ferraris and know the subtle differences, there's nothing to really tip off someone that it's a kit.
Very well done, indeed.


Thanks! I firmly believe that any decent body kit can look great, it all depends on how much time you put into it. I bought the car in September of 1985, my first mods were probably in October of that year, and I'm not done yet!


[This message has been edited by Doc John (edited 12-01-2007).]

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88White3.4GT
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Report this Post12-01-2007 09:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88White3.4GTSend a Private Message to 88White3.4GTDirect Link to This Post
[QUOTE]Originally posted by crazyd:


if its a 6 speed. where is reverse in there?... i see 6 slots *confused*

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Doc John
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Report this Post12-01-2007 09:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnDirect Link to This Post
I'm still using the old "FiEuro" shifter gate. All motion actually takes place in the big center opening. I might try and make a 6 speed plate one of these days - it's on the list of things still to do!

The actual pattern is based on the Fiero 4 speed shifter. Reverse is upper left. Fifth and sixth are far right. 1,2,3,& 4 are right where they used to be. Once in a while I genuinely forget that there are six speeds and I end up driving on the highway in fourth. Not the best mileage, but that sucker responds when you tap the throttle!

[This message has been edited by Doc John (edited 12-01-2007).]

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RandomTask
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Report this Post12-02-2007 01:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskClick Here to Email RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskDirect Link to This Post
Doc, I'll be up in DC next weekend (arlington specifically) you mind if I stop by sunday and take a look at your setup? (seeing how i have a 6 speed i'm getting ready to install?)

Joe
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Doc John
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Report this Post12-02-2007 01:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnDirect Link to This Post
No problem at all - PM me.
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mcaanda
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Report this Post12-02-2007 09:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mcaandaClick Here to Email mcaandaSend a Private Message to mcaandaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Doc John:
... The question I seem to get every time I'm there: "Why'd you put a Corvette engine in a Ferrari? I guess it must be a lot more reliable..." Then I explain the whole kit car saga....


Ultimate compliment on the car f I ever heard one.

Looks good!

--Allen

------------------
And it begins again...

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Will
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Report this Post12-03-2007 10:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Billybo455:

someone educate me. what's RFT?


 
quote
Originally posted by Mr.PBody:

Real Fiero Tech, its an offshoot forum created by people who were banned from PFF, a few have accounts on both, a few are trolls from RFT, most of RFT hates archie.



Do I want to bother?

The link is www.realfierotech.com
I'm sure Billybo455 is capable of formulating his own opinion.
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Report this Post12-03-2007 10:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
Car looks great, and you're just down the road from me (I live in Sterling), I may drop by to take a look if I ever get the time.

If the issue is simply one of numbers, go back to the shop and dyno in 4th (or 5th or 6th) and get bigger numbers. I'm sure you'll be back to the shop to verify the new tune when you get it, so just remember to put it in 4th.
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