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600 HP 3800SC by Khaos88GT
Started on: 09-24-2007 09:57 AM
Replies: 70
Last post by: darkhorizon on 09-30-2007 02:05 PM
darkhorizon
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Report this Post09-26-2007 06:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
true

------------------
[16:58] davepettinelli: mine's got a court-apponted psychiatrist
[16:58] davepettinelli: yay girls
[16:59] GTPimpin: mine whines alot
[16:59] GTPimpin: her name is fiero


Ultimate 3800 swap thread

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Formula88
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Report this Post09-26-2007 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Making the power isn't the question. Keeping it tuned isn't the question.

The question is the rest of the setup. Putting 600 HP to the ground requires a transmission that can handle it and a suspension & wheel/tire combo that can channel it. That's where the challenge will lie. Making power is (relatively) easy.


Hasn't GM built some race versions of the 4t65 that can handle more than 600HP? I know they've run a Saturn ION at Bonneville and have an Ecotec drag car. If those race parts are available from GM, that might be a good place to start.
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Will
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Report this Post09-26-2007 06:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by engine man:

If you run a turbo you can make it so you can adjust the boost right from your driver seat so just set it up to run like 10 pounds on the street then the 20 pounds at the track with race gas you will just need to know how to set up the wast gate to be adjustable and you will have to be able to tune for each boost and weather condition


You don't necessarily have to have two different tunes. If you tune the map for pump gas up to 10 psi and then race gas above 10 psi, you can run the same tune. You'll have a timing discontinuity as you pass 10 psi when running race gas; if that's not acceptable, just smooth the map out for 2-3 cells above 10 psi.
All wastegates are adjustable. The boost controller, which supplies pressure signal to the waste gate is what needs to be adjusted.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 09-26-2007).]

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Will
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Report this Post09-26-2007 06:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post

Will

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quote
Originally posted by Formula88:


Hasn't GM built some race versions of the 4t65 that can handle more than 600HP? I know they've run a Saturn ION at Bonneville and have an Ecotec drag car. If those race parts are available from GM, that might be a good place to start.


They have. You don't want to pay for it.
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post09-26-2007 06:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:


Hasn't GM built some race versions of the 4t65 that can handle more than 600HP? I know they've run a Saturn ION at Bonneville and have an Ecotec drag car. If those race parts are available from GM, that might be a good place to start.


been there done that. GM offers tons of parts, including everything from trans brakes input shafts and chains. They have been running as fast as 8's with these transmissions.

My friend has almost part for part one of those 1000HP transmissions in his 600HP impala. All he is technically missing is a trans brake.
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aaronrus
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Report this Post09-26-2007 07:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronrusClick Here to Email aaronrusSend a Private Message to aaronrusDirect Link to This Post
I'm curious, whats the most power one can squueze out of a fuel injected built up N/A 3800 series 2? anybody have a built up setup?
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Francis T
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Report this Post09-26-2007 08:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageClick Here to Email Francis TSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
600+ HP from 3.8 is no easy task. My son got 540 or 560 HP and 13k out of an MR2 2.0 he built, but it took a lot to get it. Custom made bottom end girdle, dry sump, two sets of injectors (under 0-6k and richerr 6k-13k rpm) etc, etc. And an engine management system. I would suggest you lower your goal some and have it live longer. That much power from so few cubic inches is usually at best, reason for blown head gaskets if your timing or fuel mix is of just a tiny bit. And if you want like 10k rpm, and dont use dual injectors, it will idle aweful or not rev high enough whereas the the high rpms need a lot more fuel, some much so that your lower rpms willl be too rich. anyway good luck.

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engine man
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Report this Post09-26-2007 10:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manDirect Link to This Post
600 HP will be hard on the engine but if you can make the power with out turning alot of rpm it wont be as hard on it so try to get the best flowing heads this way you dont have to run a great big cam that holds the vales open all day long to get the air and fuel in and exhaust out you are going to need forged pistons and rods the crank should be fine buick makes a nice crank you will spend lots to get it all.
It will cost alot to get the heads all ported right to get the most out of them then you will need the intake custom made to flow enough and exaughst costom you will have big money in the engine .
if you can see about puting on a set of stage 2 buick aluminum heads I dont know if they can be moded to fit but if they can get them ported and you will reach your goal pretty easy

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 09-26-2007).]

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hammer18
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Report this Post09-26-2007 10:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hammer18Click Here to Email hammer18Send a Private Message to hammer18Direct Link to This Post
With that much horsepower what transmission would you use and im guessing custom axles would be needed right?
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post09-26-2007 11:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hammer18:

With that much horsepower what transmission would you use and im guessing custom axles would be needed right?


no stock axles handle plenty of power.
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hammer18
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Report this Post09-26-2007 11:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hammer18Click Here to Email hammer18Send a Private Message to hammer18Direct Link to This Post
o ok good to know
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Report this Post09-27-2007 03:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttClick Here to Email JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post
Looks like this guy has the potential to be close...
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post09-27-2007 04:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
I cant belive you have that in your living room....

Get some speed density tuning for that beast jinx, I really think it would make tuning it a bit easier. I have no idea if its possible in obd1 but i suppose it would be worth some research...I know for sure its not yet availible in my obd2 stuff.

If your stuck with a maf sensor, I would get a big one like a ls1/2 sensor, or scale the one you have. I know for sure that you can dyno 600 with that setup, should be fun to be the first guy to post a dyno chart of a 600HP fiero.
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Report this Post09-27-2007 06:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttClick Here to Email JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post
Living room with concrete floor? lol

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JumpStart
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Report this Post09-27-2007 07:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JumpStartClick Here to Email JumpStartSend a Private Message to JumpStartDirect Link to This Post
He Moved It! lol
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Report this Post09-28-2007 12:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronrusClick Here to Email aaronrusSend a Private Message to aaronrusDirect Link to This Post

bump:

I'm curious, whats the most power one can squueze out of a fuel injected built up N/A 3800 series 2? anybody have a built up setup?
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post09-28-2007 12:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
its possible to crank them up to the 250hp level without thinking about it. By that I mean a simple cam, fancy intake setup, and your dynoing 250-270hp.

If you want you can toss some high comp pistons in and spray it down for some serious power, I dont doubt you could make 400-450 if you cared.
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Will
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Report this Post09-28-2007 08:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:
I have no idea if its possible in obd1


Why wouldn't it be?

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ducattiman
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Report this Post09-28-2007 11:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ducattimanClick Here to Email ducattimanSend a Private Message to ducattimanDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jncomutt:

Looks like this guy has the potential to be close...


LOL...i want to be the first 1 to call


No,Really nice setup,,with or EVEN WITHOUT PAPERS,lots of hard work and planning,,,but


I Do have 1 question for u??


I do u get away from have'ng that thing in ur Living Room,with out ur wife or girlfriend SLAPPING the GOD GIVING DAYLIGHTS OUT OF U???


for me just to bring a v12 con rod in the house ,i never hear the end of it!
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post09-28-2007 11:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Why wouldn't it be?


because it isnt in obd2 stuff, true speed density requires special code, or code designed to run without a maf sensor. I would imagine you can find some non maf sensor 3800 code and do something with it? OBD2 becomes exponentially inefficient and limited at boost levels over 4psi.
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post09-28-2007 11:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
no 600horsepower here, I would guess 460-470whp if its setup right.



The guy sounds like a tuner, he has obd1 with an emulator and a wideband, so there is no excuse for not getting 450whp out of it.
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Will
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Report this Post09-28-2007 12:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


because it isnt in obd2 stuff, true speed density requires special code, or code designed to run without a maf sensor. I would imagine you can find some non maf sensor 3800 code and do something with it? OBD2 becomes exponentially inefficient and limited at boost levels over 4psi.


What do you mean by "true speed density"? All the commonly used OBDI hardware is MAP based.
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post09-28-2007 01:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
ok, thats what I was looking for, I know that Ryan usually uses alot of maf sensor stuff with his swaps, so I didnt know what you can use.
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Report this Post09-28-2007 07:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNClick Here to Email PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNDirect Link to This Post
Nice !!!!!


But I still want to see specifically a 3800SC hit 600hp with a blower still on. A 3800SC isn't SC if it has a Turbo on it.

For that matter I could take my blower off & equip it with Twin Turbo and put down 780rwhp, it's already been done.
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Report this Post09-29-2007 12:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sYkboySend a Private Message to sYkboyDirect Link to This Post
I don't think that is going to happen. The SC just won't do it efficiently. That thing would have to be a grenade. At least....from what I understand. I could be wrong, of course. I am sure clubgp or the like has had this discussion before. Hell, maybe someone has one?
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Will
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Report this Post09-29-2007 11:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
The M90 will not make 600 HP. To do that with a blower would obviously take an upgraded blower.
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post09-29-2007 12:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

The M90 will not make 600 HP. To do that with a blower would obviously take an upgraded blower.


x2, it will not move enough air. You might be able to get it to that level with a massive amount of nitrous, but your pistons will hate you.
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Report this Post09-29-2007 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNClick Here to Email PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

The M90 will not make 600 HP. To do that with a blower would obviously take an upgraded blower.


That I realize, I would like to see it whether it's my MP112, a 120 or a whipple. But that # with the squeal of the blower would be sweet music.
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Report this Post09-29-2007 08:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lildevilClick Here to visit lildevil's HomePageClick Here to Email lildevilSend a Private Message to lildevilDirect Link to This Post
JNCOMUTT...is that your motor? If so I found this guy on cardomain with the exact same pics claiming its his. Or are you posting his pics?

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/706862/1

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Team Race-Tech
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Report this Post09-29-2007 10:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Team Race-TechSend a Private Message to Team Race-TechDirect Link to This Post
Thats Jeremy from New York. In one of the pictures you'll see a red 1994 Cavalier Z24, back in 2000 I did the 3800 S/C sawp for hid brother Andy. Just this summer Jeremy came up to see me for a clutch and he did tell me that he was re doing his 3800 turbo swap. It could have been 4 years ago when he bought that 87 with a 3800 N/A, then he say me with a 3800 Turbo set up and built his own. He then brought the cat to me for tuining. Could have been last year he told me that he was going to redo the swap, I told him what I was going to do and I guess he applied some of my ideas to his project. Jeremy if you see this " Good work my friend!!!"

Joe

------------------

Street Legal Tuning.

Specializing in Fiero performance:
3800 swaps, custom Aluminum flywheels, Brakes, Engine's, Aftermarket Bolt on performance parts, used Fiero parts,
www.iactech.com e-mail: joetrentadue@hotmail.com

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darkhorizon
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Report this Post09-30-2007 02:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
He ran a 12 with that setup? I would be dissapointed, my manual car ran 12.5 with a rockers/m90 car. Tuning is everything at the track IMO, I need to get some money so i can get a 11 second car going....

There are 3 swaps on my plate for the next month, and one guy is showing interest in a turbo setup, so I am hoping that I can build that for him, and get some 11's down. Mark my words, you will see an 11 from camp darkhorizon next year.
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