I belive it's free,you just need a laptop.I dont have it installed yet,but most any softwear that reads the data will help you diagnose the problem.For example by reading the data of the O2 sensore you will know if it bad or not.That way you wont have to replace 6 or so parts guessing what the problem is.You should have someone show you how to use the softwear.
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06:44 PM
tjm4fun Member
Posts: 3781 From: Long Island, NY USA Registered: Feb 2006
Anyone who is trying to diagnose engine related problems with their Fiero should have WinALDL at a minimum if they have a laptop to use it with.
AldlView is also a useful program which Cliff deserves much credit for.
I don't feel sorry for those who have the ability to use WinAldl but chose not to and end up spending a large sum of money guessing at which sensor is faulty. For those who don't have access to a laptop then a volt meter should be their first line of defense against the guessing game.
Note: You are limited to V6 Fieros and 84-86 4-Cyl Fieros which are still using the stock ECM with WinAldl.
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06:56 PM
DtheC Member
Posts: 3395 From: Newton Iowa, USA Registered: Sep 2005
Sooo......What do you use if you have an 88 coupe with an Duke engine? Or am I SOL? I figured that the most technicaly advanced engine, of the 2.5 series, you could do something with scan wise?
------------------ Ol' Paint, 88 Base coupe auto. Turning white on top, like owner. Leaks a little, like owner. Doesn't smoke, unlike owner
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07:07 PM
Firefighter Member
Posts: 1407 From: Southold, New York, USA Registered: Nov 2004
Also, does the engine have to be running for it to work? My engine won't start and I'm looking for ideas, but if the software only works while the engine is running, it won't do me any good. Will it give readings while you're trying to crank the engine?
the software is free, the adapter is cheap to make if you have some electronics skills.
it is probably worth it, if nothing else, it will help us help you!
Im working on an ADLD to USB converter for a laptop. I just got done adding line input to my old GM radio (My dad's 74 Monte Carlo had one) so thats my next project.
Two things. First you don't "have" to have a laptop. It's nice if you want to log while driving, but you can also use a normal PC in your garage.
You don't have to have a running engine but that limits what you can check. As long as you can power up the ecm you can check that the temp sensors are reading the correct temp their at and the map is working by using a vacuum pump to similate the engine running. You can also heat and cool the temp sensors to see if they change and what voltage the ecm sees.
You would not be able to watch the O2, INT or BLM, timing and more without running the engine.
On the 88 dukes you would have to do most of your checkes with a meter but you can still check out the temp sensors, map and alt power.
[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 10-16-2006).]
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11:05 PM
Zeustopher Member
Posts: 81 From: West Valley City, Utah Registered: Feb 2005
I would really like to be able to try this out. Is there a scematic somewhere for a usb cable? I found one that you could buy but at $59 it is a it pricey!
They make generic USB to serial converters. You could buy one of those and then use it with your serial ALDL cable and then have a serial port available for other applications if you ever need a serial port on your laptop for something else. It looks like you can get one off eBay for less than $10 shipped.
Heres the program: http://winaldl.joby.se/ it will tell you how to make a cable Heres the cable: http://www.aldlcable.com/ In case you want to buy one, you can get it here or from strat110 or (I think?) the guy above a post or 3 . This program (after you learn it) will do wonders for your dio needs and save a pile of coin in the meantime--well worth the money & time learning it....
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02:40 AM
krackley Member
Posts: 102 From: Richmond, VA, USA Registered: Sep 2006
Heres the program: http://winaldl.joby.se/ it will tell you how to make a cable Heres the cable: In case you want to buy one, you can get it here or from strat110 or (I think?) the guy above a post or 3 . This program (after you learn it) will do wonders for your dio needs and save a pile of coin in the meantime--well worth the money & time learning it....
I'm going to download the software to my laptop today, and then buy the USB cable.
Is this the cable I need. It's the OBD1 with the USB computer end.
I have the other cable --as my laptop is older--Bob the guy who owns that site made me a heck of a deal on an older Dell with his cable, I was using it for the shop/car anyway , so I couldn`t turn it down, one of the guys above will know what you need for a newer laptop--or email Bob....
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10:44 AM
krackley Member
Posts: 102 From: Richmond, VA, USA Registered: Sep 2006
I have the other cable --as my laptop is older--Bob the guy who owns that site made me a heck of a deal on an older Dell with his cable, I was using it for the shop/car anyway , so I couldn`t turn it down, one of the guys above will know what you need for a newer laptop--or email Bob....
Luckily, I do know about computers; I know I'll need the USB connector for the laptop. It's just the other end that plugs into the Fiero I wanted to double check.
[This message has been edited by krackley (edited 10-17-2006).]
That end is the same, just not sure if you need the 10k ohm resistor to run accross the a&b connectors terminal with a newer laptop set-up, I`m pretty sure you will, he`ll include it with the cable, along with instructions of how to hook it up, then we`ll get you going on how to learn/use winaldl--thats where the fun starts --its not hard take my word for it, I wouldn`t lie to anyone, seriously ...
I would really like to be able to try this out. Is there a scematic somewhere for a usb cable? I found one that you could buy but at $59 it is a it pricey!
I found how to make a serial cable but my laptop doesn't have a serial connection on it.
Thanks!
60 bucks isnt that bad.. cheaper then one trip to the dealer.
I think ill order one next week for my laptop.. Since there really isnt any free software at this point for the palm, a laptop looks like the best route for me as well.
[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 10-17-2006).]
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06:11 PM
Oct 19th, 2006
krackley Member
Posts: 102 From: Richmond, VA, USA Registered: Sep 2006
I have the other cable --as my laptop is older--Bob the guy who owns that site made me a heck of a deal on an older Dell with his cable, I was using it for the shop/car anyway , so I couldn`t turn it down, one of the guys above will know what you need for a newer laptop--or email Bob....
wow this is cool freeware for this kind of tool... (praises the coders) the kits ive seen in parts stores are usually 150-200 from what ive seen so free is good
Is the software offered by the Fiero Store for $ 100 worth it? Does it work the same as ALDL, and which is better for resolving / diagnosing problems?
NO it is not worth it. It will not give you any more or less data than WinAldl.
They are about the same I would imagine for usage. There are several downfalls to the Fiero Store one though.
1. Only compatable with the Fiero as far as I know. 2. More Expensive. You can build a cable for less than $10 easily or buy one for ~$25 from someone that builds them like I used to. If you need USB or have XP then buy a USB to Serial Link cable from Newegg for ~$15. 3. Lack of support. The Fiero Store buys that product from a guy in Sweden named Oliver and arn't going to be able to diagnose any problems you have with it. Unless Oliver is supporting it you are going to be on your own. With WinALDL you will find many on this forum willing to help I have also had good luch getting responces from Jonas who wrote the software.
The Fiero Store buys that product from a guy in Sweden named Oliver and arn't going to be able to diagnose any problems you have with it.
Oliver Scholz is a very bright and personable young engineer (from Germany, not Sweden) who has contributed a lot to the Fiero community for many years. I don't know what the Fiero Store's support policies are for this product, but anything I have ever seen from Oliver has been first class. My personal experiences with him have always been very positive.
I have had Oliver's Dash Scan II (a super product!) installed in my Fiero for three years, but I also use a homemade cable and WinALDL when I want to do data logging, more detailed ECM data analysis, and/or chip tuning. It's hard to beat the latter combination for cost effectiveness.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 10-20-2006).]
No offense but don't go through all the trouble. Build the transistor based one and buy a USB to Serial link cable.
There is no trouble.
1: Serial-USB converters are flaky. I work with them every day for R&D. 2: The scematic is very simple 3: Very few parts 4: Extremely cheap parts (the most expensive was the converter chip. Digikey sells it for $4.40)
You are talking to someone that added line-in to a 70's era GM radio using only a Radio Shack soldering iron and a continuity meter.
Oliver Scholz is a very bright and personable young engineer (from Germany, not Sweden) who has contributed a lot to the Fiero community for many years. I don't know what the Fiero Store's support policies are for this product, but anything I have ever seen from Oliver has been first class. My personal experiences with him have always been very positive.
I have had Oliver's Dash Scan II (a super product!) installed in my Fiero for three years, but I also use a homemade cable and WinALDL when I want to do data logging, more detailed ECM data analysis, and/or chip tuning. It's hard to beat the latter combination for cost effectiveness.
You are very right about Oliver I think alot about him as well and have never heard anything which would make me think otherwise. I am also glad to see that he was able to get his product picked up by the FieroStore and make some money for all his hard work.
It definetly is a good product but as you have found out yourself WinAldl has some advantages like dataloging which I had forgotten about.
[This message has been edited by Jefrysuko (edited 10-20-2006).]
1: Serial-USB converters are flaky. I work with them every day for R&D. 2: The scematic is very simple 3: Very few parts 4: Extremely cheap parts (the most expensive was the converter chip. Digikey sells it for $4.40)
You are talking to someone that added line-in to a 70's era GM radio using only a Radio Shack soldering iron and a continuity meter.
I stand corrected after looking at the schematic again. I still don't understand what program you are planning on using though. I don't know how to get WinAldl to recognise anything other than a Com port.
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04:45 PM
RotrexFiero Member
Posts: 3692 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Jul 2002
Does winadld work with the 85 ECM....what would be the prom ID?
I don't know what the prom ID is but yes WinAldl does work with the 85 ECM. The only thing different is that the resistor is not needed to put the ECM in transmit mode.
1: Serial-USB converters are flaky. I work with them every day for R&D. 2: The scematic is very simple 3: Very few parts 4: Extremely cheap parts (the most expensive was the converter chip. Digikey sells it for $4.40)
You are talking to someone that added line-in to a 70's era GM radio using only a Radio Shack soldering iron and a continuity meter.
the best way if you know what your doing is to build it your self much more rewarding ^_^
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12:33 PM
PFF
System Bot
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
I still don't understand what program you are planning on using though. I don't know how to get WinAldl to recognise anything other than a Com port.
"Schematic #2" reveals that you can build an application-specific ALDL-to-USB cable that works with WinALDL. The cost will range from $5 to $25, depending primarily upon how much work you want to do yourself when building it.
Follow the link to the FTDI web site and look at FTDI's TTL-232R product. (It's available in the U.S. from Mouser Electronics for $20.) All you need to connect this to the Fiero ALDL port is one 10k resistor, one NPN transistor (2N2222, etc.), and an ALDL connector (or three bare pins). Of course, you will still need another 10k resistor to put the ECM into diagnostic mode. FTDI's free drivers (available for Winxx, Mac, and Linux) make the USB port look like a serial (COM) port to WinALDL. It's that simple.
Here is a schematic of the TTL-232R product internals:
Thanks for the link, Ap2k. This is great stuff!
Update 10-26-06: The FT232R chip will not work in this application. FTDI's technical support has confirmed that "The minimum baud rate with the FT232R is 183 baud - there is no way to obtain lower baud rates." The data output of the Fiero ECMs supported by WinALDL is at 160 baud.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 10-26-2006).]
You can order an OTC Part #212633 and end up with a ALDL diagnostic plug on one end and 8 pin DIN on the other with about 1' of cable. Then chop it up as you'd like...
A way cheaper way would be how some here have done it, just shove tinned wires into the connector in the car with whatever you want on the other end mounted in the cigarette lighter trim. Then you don't have to pull the cover off to plug in, just plug whatever connector you decide on. Someone here was selling kits using miniphono stereo plugs I believe. Got you the three pins you need for everything.
Here is one thread showing the idea... he is NOT selling them anymore.
You can order an OTC Part #212633 and end up with a ALDL diagnostic plug on one end and 8 pin DIN on the other with about 1' of cable. Then chop it up as you'd like...
A way cheaper way would be how some here have done it, just shove tinned wires into the connector in the car with whatever you want on the other end mounted in the cigarette lighter trim. Then you don't have to pull the cover off to plug in, just plug whatever connector you decide on. Someone here was selling kits using miniphono stereo plugs I believe. Got you the three pins you need for everything.
Here is one thread showing the idea... he is NOT selling them anymore.
I stand corrected after looking at the schematic again. I still don't understand what program you are planning on using though. I don't know how to get WinAldl to recognise anything other than a Com port.
Under Windows, all communications ports (except parallel) are called COM ports.
I'm going to let you fellows in on my mistake. When I got my digikey box, I also had parts to add line input to my radio. Now that thats out of the way I was going to start on the ALDL-USB converter. The bag the FT232 chip came in felt like it was a DIP type, so I didnt worry. When I opened it, it happened to be a dessicant bag that was the bulk of the package.
So unless you have an air solder station, a good eye, and a steady hand, dont buy the FT232 unless you can get the DIP package and NOT the SMD pack. And let me tell you, its VERY small for an SMD chip.
I have plenty of protoboard space and a big box. I was worried the 2nd schematic was going to be too easy.
