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400hp? Quad4 Turbo Build by bryson
Started on: 08-17-2003 10:55 AM
Replies: 470
Last post by: bryson on 03-15-2005 11:34 PM
SappySE107
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Report this Post09-05-2003 01:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SappySE107Click Here to visit SappySE107's HomePageClick Here to Email SappySE107Send a Private Message to SappySE107Direct Link to This Post

Also, why are you using LS1 springs? If your install height is like the 3.4 DOHC, you will be having coil bind. They are a much stronger spring than stock as well, which I don't know if you need that strong with the amount of boost you will be running anyway.

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Will
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Report this Post09-05-2003 06:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post

Aren't LS1 springs tapered?

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bryson
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Report this Post09-05-2003 07:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brysonSend a Private Message to brysonDirect Link to This Post

Well, I used the LS1 valve springs because they were tapered and I couldn't find any other springs that would fit that had the correct spring tensions. The retainers had to be machined a little smaller, and the head had to be milled out almost .050" to install the springs at 1.800", where the spring rates were ideal. I never even looked at GTI springs, but many of the import applications weren't the correct pressure at installed height. These springs are Comp Cams performance springs, and are good for .600" lift if installed at 1.800" As far as the picture I didn't post earlier, we had eight foot waves (amazing for where I live, and tomorrow will be better!), but I'll post a couple pictures now. Tomorrow I will try to get the cradle done in POR-15, so I'll show everyone how it comes out as well. My injectors were shipped to me today, and the header bends should head out Monday. I decided to go ahead and run the cam towers open, and mount the coil packs somehwere else in the engine =) It looksso cool! Sorry the engine is a little greasy, but you guys will get the idea
Pre-disassembly:

How we had to put the cam towers on:

The underside of the cam towers (lifters):

Post reassembly:

SO glad everything worked right:

I'm getting excited now......
--Bryson

------------------
88 Fiero GT Quad4 Turbo...It has begun
88 VW GTI 16v ($300 driver/autox MACHINE!)
90 Olds Calais International H.O. (donor car)
88 Fiero Formula (parts car)

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bryson
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Report this Post09-15-2003 11:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brysonSend a Private Message to brysonDirect Link to This Post

I got a little more done. It's been awhile since I posted, but I worked on the engine bay some to try and figure out the ducts for the intercoolers. I had to cut out a section of the vent that follows the fuel filler neck and put flexible hose in because the intercooler was hitting. I will take a picture of that as soon as possible. I also got the A/C compressor on, as well as the alternator and water pump. I ran into a problem with the oil pan bung for the oil drain from the turbo. Because I didn't want to try to find someone to weld aluminum, I bought a bulkhead fitting, but there isn't a flat spot on the oil pan for me to drill through. I will figure some things out soon, but for now here is how the engine looks:

------------------
88 Fiero GT Quad4 Turbo...It has begun
88 VW GTI 16v ($300 driver/autox MACHINE!)
90 Olds Calais International H.O. (donor car)
88 Fiero Formula (parts car)

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CaddyRob
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Report this Post09-16-2003 05:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CaddyRobClick Here to visit CaddyRob's HomePageClick Here to Email CaddyRobSend a Private Message to CaddyRobDirect Link to This Post

That looks awsome! cant wait to hear/see how it looks all done, and see you kick some v6/8 butt!! (Nothing against v6/8's!)

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Fierobsessed
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Report this Post09-16-2003 05:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedDirect Link to This Post

I have a suggestion, it won't make you go any faster, but... You can take that intake manifold, de-burr it with a file, then powdercoat it. It will look like glass tubes when its done. Totally sick. Thats what I'm doing to mine. So far so good, Looking Great!

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ThaFieroMunk
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Report this Post09-16-2003 06:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ThaFieroMunkClick Here to Email ThaFieroMunkSend a Private Message to ThaFieroMunkDirect Link to This Post

great looking engine. You will have an extremely unique engine when you are done! I wish you the best of luck as well. I personally have some bad feelings about the quad 4 and that would steer me away from it. I'm very excited though to see where this goes!

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bryson
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Report this Post09-16-2003 09:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brysonSend a Private Message to brysonDirect Link to This Post

I thought about sanding the intake and possibly polishing it (I spent about 20 hrs on the compressor side of the turbo -- I'll download pictures tomorrow of that), but then I remembered that the intake was going to be right there by the firewall and I figured it looked alright. I still might sand it down some and ceramic coat it, but that will be later. Thanks everyone for your input, and because I haven't had too many interesting pictures lately, maybe I will take a few of the blow off valve, wastegate, turbo, ECU, and any other goodies I can dig up (like my twin intercooler setup).
--Bryson

------------------
88 Fiero GT Quad4 Turbo...It has begun
88 VW GTI 16v ($300 driver/autox MACHINE!)
90 Olds Calais International H.O. (donor car)
88 Fiero Formula (parts car)

[This message has been edited by bryson (edited 09-16-2003).]

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CaddyRob
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Report this Post10-02-2003 01:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CaddyRobClick Here to visit CaddyRob's HomePageClick Here to Email CaddyRobSend a Private Message to CaddyRobDirect Link to This Post

!!Bump!!

Any Updates on this?

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bryson
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Report this Post10-03-2003 07:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brysonSend a Private Message to brysonDirect Link to This Post

Actually, now that Pennock's is working for me I can post some of my pictures I got the engine completely together) minus the exhaust manifold, and I am now waiting on my pressure plate to come in from Clutchnet. I prepped the engine bay today, and I will be painting it tomorrow. Here are a few pictures of some of my goodies!


I will take some of the engine tomorrow and also put the intercoolers in once the paint dries so everyone can see how they will be run. Thanks for bringing this back to the top!
--Bryson

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bryson
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Report this Post10-16-2003 03:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brysonSend a Private Message to brysonDirect Link to This Post

Well, my computer has been acting funny so it's been awhile since I posted pics, so here goes! I got the intercoolers bolted in and the engine bay painted and I made the insulation that goes against the firewall.

I put several little things together on the engine (MAP sensor, IAT sensor, fuel rail, 850cc injectors, fuel pressure regulator, oil separator, starter, intake bracket, A/C and alternator brackets, etc....), and I got the clutch all mounted up along with the transmission. By the way, I have my Centerforce for sale. The clutch disk and pressure plate both have under 1000 miles, 500 being break in miles. Anyway, here are a few pictures.


I'm heading back up to the shop in a little while. Today we NEED to get the engine and transmission bolted to the cradle and into the car. My dad and I are going to pick up some new bolts for the cradle. I already painted the wheel well area today, so hopefully it will be dry enough by the time I get back to put the engine in.
--Bryson

------------------
88 Fiero GT Quad4 Turbo...It has begun
88 VW GTI 16v ($300 driver/autox MACHINE!)
90 Olds Calais International H.O. (donor car)
88 Fiero Formula (parts car)

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crzyone
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Report this Post10-16-2003 03:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post

That engine looks so impressive without the cover on it, I love the cam towers!

How much do you think you have spent on the engine so far?

What kind of redline will the engine have?

+ for you, truly impressive

------------------
86SE 5 speed
85GT 4.9 isuzu 5 speed
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/027839.html
Will trade both for a fastback GT

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Report this Post10-16-2003 04:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttClick Here to Email JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post

I hope you have a set of 'Fi-Air-O' scoops or such to direct some air through those Intercoolers.. Btw, how are they mounted??

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sennyGT
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Report this Post10-16-2003 10:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sennyGTClick Here to Email sennyGTSend a Private Message to sennyGTDirect Link to This Post

bump

Any updates?

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bryson
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Report this Post10-16-2003 11:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brysonSend a Private Message to brysonDirect Link to This Post

ITS IN! The engine is in the car! I'm too tired to upload pictures, so I'll do that tomorrow, but I'll tell a little about what happened today. It was a MAGICAL day...nobody yelled at each other -- my dad and I worked on my car, Patrick and Mr. Kisling worked on theirs; it was wonderful. Anyway, the engine needs to be cleaned again and I need to polish the cam towers a little more, but it looks awesome! Looking at the cradle from underneath with the engine mounts all new-looking and painted black, with new bolts and nuts everywhere and all new parts gives me such a great feeling I can't even describe it!!! Also, after being at least halfway under a car cover for about 9 months I had forgotten how much I love this car and how beautiful the car itself is!! Needless to say, I'm mega excited in a tired delirious sort of way....pictures tomorrow!
--Bryson

by the way-- the intercoolers have two threaded holes stock for the turbo coupe, and one bolt goes through the shock tower and the other goes through a bracket. The front is not supported, but I'm going to have brackets on the bottom of the tube that runs from intercooler to intercooler that bolt to the firewall to support the front of the intercoolers
-as far as the redline, the valvetrain will probably handle aruond 8000rpm, where I should be finished making serious power with these camshafts. I don't even want to think about the money, but I bought new pistons, rings, valves, valve springs, camshafts, lifters, head studs, main studs, rod bolts, bearings, and all the seals and gaskets and the other things that add up, not to mention the $2k TEC3, everything for the turbo system, and all of the machine work for the engine. It's pretty crazy, but I would guess aruond 8000 total including the cost of the car. Both of my engines I got out of cars I bought and parted out (and am still parting out -- 92 Beretta GTZ and 90 Olds Calais I-series), so those didn't hit the wallet too hard.

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bryson
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Report this Post10-16-2003 11:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brysonSend a Private Message to brysonDirect Link to This Post

I got too excited and had to post pictures:



In the last one you can see the trigger wheel for the TEC3 -- I was proud of that! I had to figure out where to drill those three holes for the bolts and the file the three spacers to within .005" so that the wheel would stay true, but it was worth the effort! I think tomorrow is going to be a cleaning/organizing day, so unless I do something little like mount the ECU, there won't be any new pictures. Thanks for your interest!! It gets me excited!
--Bryson

------------------
88 Fiero GT Quad4 Turbo...It has begun
88 VW GTI 16v ($300 driver/autox MACHINE!)
90 Olds Calais International H.O. (donor car)
88 Fiero Formula (parts car)

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sanderson
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Report this Post10-17-2003 06:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sandersonClick Here to Email sandersonSend a Private Message to sandersonDirect Link to This Post

Don't mean to hijack your thread Bryson but here is a picture of my N/A Quad 4 that went into the car last a week ago. It's getting painted right now and should have it back next week.

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bryson
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Report this Post10-17-2003 06:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brysonSend a Private Message to brysonDirect Link to This Post

Looks great man! Did you find any clearance issues with the timing cover and the mount for the dogbone? It looks to be a little close, but I don't know if I should worry or not. I don't even know if the 4cyl have this mount, but mine was a V6 and it looks close. Thanks,
--Bryson

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sanderson
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Report this Post10-17-2003 08:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sandersonClick Here to Email sandersonSend a Private Message to sandersonDirect Link to This Post

The car not here so I can't check for sure but I don't recall that being an issue (the iron duke has a dobgone in the back on the passenger side). This could also be an '88 peculiarity.

I originally started out with the engine mounted level and square to the cradle. I ended up adjusting the motor mounts to lower the harmonic balancer end about 1/2" to help with intereference between deck lid hinge/tortion bar. I subsequently decided to eliminate the tortion bar as it looked like I still had a bit of an interference problem and also to clean up the firewall. I plan to go with some type of gas cylinder a la Rodney Dickman's set-up.

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Fierobsessed
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Report this Post10-18-2003 08:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedDirect Link to This Post

Im mounting mine to the cradle. My custom mount brackets are done. Iv'e been playing around with the motor on the cradle and it seems to be too soft, it jiggles way too much. I think I may go with a custom polyeurathane mount, but Im not sure yet. Have you guys noticed any issue like that?

And yes, the dogbone bracket from the stock engine and the timing cover is always a close fit/no fit. Most people cut it out.

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sanderson
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Report this Post10-18-2003 08:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sandersonClick Here to Email sandersonSend a Private Message to sandersonDirect Link to This Post

I did the rear mount first and then fitted the front gel filled mount to put a little compression on it. My engine seems to fit in the cradle pretty solid.

All my mounts are welded and I have a beefier rear mount than most:

Rear mount:

Cradle with both mounts:

[This message has been edited by sanderson (edited 10-18-2003).]

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PBJ
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Report this Post10-18-2003 10:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJClick Here to Email PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post

Looking really good guys!

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fierogt3
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Report this Post10-19-2003 01:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogt3Send a Private Message to fierogt3Direct Link to This Post

how many liters it the quad 4?

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sardonyx247
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Report this Post10-19-2003 01:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Direct Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fierogt3:

how many liters it the quad 4?

2.3l

------------------
'84 Fiero Sport Quad 4 coming soon
http://www.lasvegasfieroclub.com/

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Comealongway
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Report this Post10-19-2003 04:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ComealongwayClick Here to Email ComealongwaySend a Private Message to ComealongwayDirect Link to This Post

May i please bag someone for there measurements for the mounting welds, like postion on the cradle and dimension of the weld itself, it would be greatly apprehiated, it is the only thing stopping me currnetly from doing the swap. I'm going from an 85 duke to a 90 beretta GTZ and the motor has been in my backyard way too long.


Thanks so much, even if someone just half asses teh measurements it would be great.

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sanderson
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Report this Post10-19-2003 09:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sandersonClick Here to Email sandersonSend a Private Message to sandersonDirect Link to This Post

Comealongway,

What I did on mine was mount the transaxle to the engine and then mount the engine and transaxle to the cradle with the transaxle mounts. You'll use the holes closest to the driver's side. If you're going to keep the deck lid tortion bar, I'd take a dremel or die grinder and make the holes a little longer to move the transaxle about 1/4" closer to the driver's side.

At this point the engine is supported from above by a chainfall. I then laid a piece of angle across the front supporting points on the cradle and used a square across the harmonic balancer to position the harmonic balancer end of the engine fore and aft.

To minimize the interference with the deck lid you want the engine a little below level on the harmonic balancer end. 5" from centerline of the crank to the top of the cradle is a good dimension.

If you're going to run A/C, I was advised that the hump in the cradle is an interference and I went ahead and removed it. I have pictures of this if need be. I'm not absolutely convinced this was necessary so I'd get confirmation before undertaking this.

The front engine mount is a piece of 4" x 6" x 1/4" angle with additional gussets from 1/4" plate.

The back mount was built from 1/4" plate and the same angle. There was a lot of trial fitting/grinding on the back mount mount. The front mount is straightforward.

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Comealongway
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Report this Post10-20-2003 01:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ComealongwayClick Here to Email ComealongwaySend a Private Message to ComealongwayDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by sanderson:

Comealongway,

What I did on mine was mount the transaxle to the engine and then mount the engine and transaxle to the cradle with the transaxle mounts. You'll use the holes closest to the driver's side. If you're going to keep the deck lid tortion bar, I'd take a dremel or die grinder and make the holes a little longer to move the transaxle about 1/4" closer to the driver's side.

At this point the engine is supported from above by a chainfall. I then laid a piece of angle across the front supporting points on the cradle and used a square across the harmonic balancer to position the harmonic balancer end of the engine fore and aft.

To minimize the interference with the deck lid you want the engine a little below level on the harmonic balancer end. 5" from centerline of the crank to the top of the cradle is a good dimension.

If you're going to run A/C, I was advised that the hump in the cradle is an interference and I went ahead and removed it. I have pictures of this if need be. I'm not absolutely convinced this was necessary so I'd get confirmation before undertaking this.

The front engine mount is a piece of 4" x 6" x 1/4" angle with additional gussets from 1/4" plate.

The back mount was built from 1/4" plate and the same angle. There was a lot of trial fitting/grinding on the back mount mount. The front mount is straightforward.

What do you need to attach the transmission to the cradle, is it a direct bolt on with a getrag fiero mount or do you have to use another mount. I am using the isuzu transmission so i just need ot know what mount i can use.

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sardonyx247
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Report this Post10-20-2003 02:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Direct Link to This Post

What are you useing to polish lettering on the cam covers?

------------------
'84 Fiero Sport Quad 4 coming soon
http://www.lasvegasfieroclub.com/

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Will
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Report this Post10-20-2003 02:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Comealongway:

What do you need to attach the transmission to the cradle, is it a direct bolt on with a getrag fiero mount or do you have to use another mount. I am using the isuzu transmission so i just need ot know what mount i can use.

I wasn't aware that there were any Isuzus that bolted to the Q4...

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

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bryson
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Report this Post10-20-2003 04:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brysonSend a Private Message to brysonDirect Link to This Post

As far as the engine mounts go, I did exactly what sanderson said. I mounted the transaxle on the engine (bare block is light and makes it easy) and into the cradle. I levelled the cradle and and engine side to side, then the welder used cardboard to mock up mounts and make it out of metal. For the polishing, I used sandpaper and Mother's aluminum polish. I still need to polish them more because my sanding wasn't very good, but they look alright for now. The coolant lines don't seem like they will be too hard, but I am worried about the headers. I had to redesign them, which isn't a big deal, but I am concerned about welding. I have only welded a few times so I'm worried about tacking the primaries up, but I guess I don't have much of a choice if I don't want to spend a ton of money. I think I'll tack up the primaries myself then have someone else run the bead around it. I don't know if I'll go to the shop today or not...I'll keep everyone posted!
--Bryson

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sanderson
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Report this Post10-20-2003 06:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sandersonClick Here to Email sandersonSend a Private Message to sandersonDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

I wasn't aware that there were any Isuzus that bolted to the Q4...


Will, I think that there is a 95+ Izuzu that will bolt to the Quad 4. It may have come with the 2.4L Twin Cam. I remember Paul Herder who built Standard's car saying that it had an Izuzu.

Comealongway, The Fiero Izuzu will not bolt to the Quad 4 engine.

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reborn88
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Report this Post10-20-2003 11:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for reborn88Click Here to Email reborn88Send a Private Message to reborn88Direct Link to This Post

Bryson, you have a pm.

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rejuvinated
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Report this Post10-21-2003 01:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rejuvinatedClick Here to visit rejuvinated's HomePageClick Here to Email rejuvinatedSend a Private Message to rejuvinatedDirect Link to This Post

Bump for Blue Rocketr's sake...

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84Bill
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Report this Post10-21-2003 04:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84BillClick Here to visit 84Bill's HomePageSend a Private Message to 84BillDirect Link to This Post

THUD! X-)
And its going in a GT... teehehhehhehehhe cool!

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Fierobsessed
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Report this Post10-21-2003 07:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedDirect Link to This Post

Woohoo! Got my motor fitted to the cradle. After a few test fits and alot of adjusting, I found there is a sweet spot where everything just seems to work well. The stock rear mount for the getrag was a big problem for me. When I was using it, nothing seemed to want to line up. The transmission sat way too high at the rear corner and the chain housing hit the decklid, not to mension the whole thing sat too far forward on that side. The axles wouldn't line up either. I got rid of that mount and made a polyeurathane mount to take its place. The motor now sits tilted back quite a bit more then the stock mount would allow. The oil pan now sits level, the decklid doesn't hit the chain housing, neither does the tortion bar, the chain housing is about 3/4" from the dog bone mount, the axles are straight, and the motor is straight and level. Only issue I have is that there is a rib on the getrag that is about 1/8" from the cradle, I'll notch the cradle to clear it. No big deal. My goal was to get the engine/transmission to sit as low as possible.
edit: Don't worry, Im documenting as much as possible. Unfortunatly I don't have the ability to get the pics from my digital camera to the computer, but I do have the pictures.

[This message has been edited by Fierobsessed (edited 10-21-2003).]

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topcat
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Report this Post10-21-2003 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for topcatClick Here to Email topcatSend a Private Message to topcatDirect Link to This Post

Bryson, check your PM

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sanderson
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Report this Post10-21-2003 11:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sandersonClick Here to Email sandersonSend a Private Message to sandersonDirect Link to This Post

In answer to a previous question. Here's a pic of timing chain cover in relation to dog bone mount in the my '84 - looks like plenty of room to me. Maybe the '88 engine compartment is tighter.

Here's one showing relocated C500 connector (upper right):

Here's the whole engine compartment:

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Will
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Report this Post10-22-2003 08:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by sanderson:

In answer to a previous question. Here's a pic of timing chain cover in relation to dog bone mount in the my '84 - looks like plenty of room to me. Maybe the '88 engine compartment is tighter.


Yes, the '88 engine compartment is tighter. The '88 strut tops are 1 1/2" closer together than the early strut tops; so each strut tower is 3/4" closer to the center of the car.

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

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RotrexFiero
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Report this Post10-22-2003 12:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RotrexFieroClick Here to visit RotrexFiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to RotrexFieroDirect Link to This Post

What happened to the dual intercoolers?

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bryson
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Report this Post10-22-2003 01:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brysonSend a Private Message to brysonDirect Link to This Post

Thanks for the picture! Mine looks to be slightly closer than that (it's an 88), so I might have to do some trimming and cutting, but it should be alright. I took the intercoolers out to stick the engine in and also to make the insulation on the firewall. They will be back! Maybe even polished a little more

*edit for spelling

[This message has been edited by bryson (edited 10-22-2003).]

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