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L36 / 4T60-E swap begins.... by Darth Fiero
Started on: 07-23-2004 06:44 PM
Replies: 112
Last post by: fieroX on 10-06-2004 01:54 PM
Kohburn
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Report this Post08-10-2004 02:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:


79?-83 Buicks were offered with the carbed 3.8L turbo
84-85 Buicks were offered with the EFI 3.8L turbo
86-87 Buicks were offered with the EFI 3.8L intercooled turbo
1989 Trans Am's were offered with the same EFI 3.8L intercooled turbo

Starting in 1992, GM offered the 3800 Series I with a supercharger

hmm - so better off going with a newer engine...
still trying to figure out just how much is involved in turboing an NA 3800 from '98+
for boost under 10psi does it need any additional engine management?

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-10-2004 02:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Kohburn:


hmm - so better off going with a newer engine...
still trying to figure out just how much is involved in turboing an NA 3800 from '98+
for boost under 10psi does it need any additional engine management?

I am glad you asked that question. The Series II SC engine has stronger rods, pistons, and pins compared to the N/A 3800 S2. The SC engine also has 8.5:1 compression which is more boost friendly than the N/A's 9.5:1 compression. There are pleanty of people out there who are putting boost on stock N/A 3800's but nearly all of them are running on race gas most of the time. In my opinion, if you want to turbo a 3800 I would start with a SC shortblock and then just add the N/A heads and intake you want and go from their. As far as computer you can use any 94-up 3800 computer that was set up to operate an SC engine and just have it reprogrammed or a custom chip done.

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Report this Post08-10-2004 02:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post

I guess that is basicly what FieroX is doing a 3800SC block with NA intake + turbo
does it really need to be reprogrammed? or will the MAF be able to compensate? I suppose its more of a question of at what point can the MAF not compensate properly..

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 08-10-2004).]

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-10-2004 02:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Kohburn:

I guess that is basicly what FieroX is doing a 3800SC block with NA intake + turbo
does it really need to be reprogrammed? or will the MAF be able to compensate? I suppose its more of a question of at what point can the MAF not compensate properly..

Yea that is what FieroX is doing but I did it last year. Yes, you will still need the computer reprogrammed because the MAF cannot tell the computer to reduce timing with more boost. The MAF sensor tells the computer how much air flow there is, the computer program actually assigns a fuel delivery value to that MAF air flow signal. There is actually another thread going on right now about this topic. In my case, I have not had to make any alterations to the MAF tables in the computer BUT I have had to make changes to the fuel trim specific to RPM so the A/F mixture is correct under boost. Stock values are close but not correct.

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Report this Post08-10-2004 02:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post

so using the L67 PCM the fuel tables are off witht he SC also? or the airflow from the turbo throws it a little off (from heat or turbulance?)
very interesting...

SC's are nice and all - but i preffer the milage that no-boost gives you - and a nice blow off valve can't be beat for grins..

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The Adjuster
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Report this Post08-10-2004 04:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The AdjusterClick Here to visit The Adjuster's HomePageSend a Private Message to The AdjusterDirect Link to This Post

Thanks guys! (sarcastic) with all your questions on exhaust, Darth has now decided to do the upgraded version on my car so now I have to wait for more exhaust parts. Good grief, I thought this was supposed to be the cheap and quick swap, good thing I'm not paying for it! We already had to upgrade the welder on this project...I guess it will be less to do over later but I really wanted to be driving this car by next week. Oh well, guess I shouldn't complain, I get to get the best freebie swap around.

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-11-2004 02:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Kohburn:

so using the L67 PCM the fuel tables are off witht he SC also? or the airflow from the turbo throws it a little off (from heat or turbulance?)
very interesting...

SC's are nice and all - but i preffer the milage that no-boost gives you - and a nice blow off valve can't be beat for grins..

Hmm, how do I explain this. Personally I use the 94-95 3800 Series I SC computer, along with many others with engine swaps on this board and elsewhere. This computer is programmed from the factory to operate a 225hp/275tq 3.8L engine with 28 lb injectors. The Series II 3800 SC stock puts out 240hp/280tq and has 36 lb injectors. So right there you have a problem because of the bigger injectors and higher power output. The MAF can compensate fuel delivery to some extent based on increased air flow but cannot compensate for the larger injectors nor can it make changes to timing. The timing tables in the 94-95 PCM are based on a load value. While this load value is derived from the MAF value it is also based on RPM. These timing tables are set values in the chip that can only be changed by reprogramming. To put it quite simply, the Series 1 SC engine puts out 225hp which means it has different timing requirements than the Series II engine that puts out 240hp. Furthermore, if you get rid of the SC and add a turbo, things get even more tricky. For instance, the stock SC motors will build boost at WOT regardless of RPM. In my case, my turbo does have some slight lag (as turbos do) and will not build boost until the RPMs have reached a certain point. To put it another way my boost doesn't come up until about 2000-2500 rpm depending on what gear my trans is in and what speed I am going. Therefore I am able to give my engine more timing advance down low at a high load value which improves drivability and gas mileage. Trying to use this on a SC motor would result in detonation because the SC builds boost regardless of RPM.

Now as far with the turbo affecting the MAF sensor, I have not had any issues when using the external 3.0" or 3.5" LT1-style MAF sensor. I DID have trouble with the stock 3800 throttle-body mounted MAF sensor so I quite using it.

Sorry if I confused you that is the only way I can think of to describe it.

Basically, turbos are different than the stock roots style SCs in 1 major respect. The roots style SC is going to pump the same amount of air per RPM. A turbo feeds on itself and generally continues pumping more air until the wastegate/BOV reaches the boost set point, or you exceed the airflow capabilities of the turbo. So to put it in perspective, the roots style SC will move the most air at MAX rpm which is why the 3800 SC feels like it makes most of its power in the upper RPMs. A turbo however will allow the engine to make max power at whatever RPM the turbo is sized for. In my case, the stock GN turbo allows my engine to make maximum torque between 2600 and 5000 rpm. By the time I hit about 5600 rpm the power band starts dropping off drastically. Therefore I have set my shift points at 5500-5600 rpm. The best thing about my turbo is when my trans shifts, the car pulls harder because the RPMs drop back down closer to max torque. If I wanted a higher RPM power band I could simply upgrade to a larger turbo, it is quite simply that easy... Provided the rest of the engine parts can take the added stress of the higher RPMs and cylinder pressures.

hope this answers your questions.

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 08-11-2004).]

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-11-2004 02:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post

Today I finished up the cooling system by installing the engine outlet to pipe coolant hose. I forgot to get pics but I have a Dayco part number: 71075. It fits ok, no kinks but it is not perfect. Remember this was a stock V6 car which means the driver's side coolant tube does not come up as far as the 4-cyl cars so you have to snake the hose down there farther. I will try to remember to get some pics up soon. Some trimming of this hose is required.

Now for the long-awaited exhaust system. First off, I am using stock manifolds and crossover. The 97-up 3800 Series II engines use a 2-bolt flat flange with flex joint on the downpipe side. This flange actually measures at about 2.8" BUT the factory flex joint cuts the inside diameter down to less than 2 inches! While this may be "ok" for a naturally asperated 3800 S2 only making 205hp, it is certainly not good for the SC version.

Here is a pic of a modified stock flange I originally used on my 3800 S2 swap years ago:

Looking inside you can see how the flow area gets cut down significantly buy the inner pipe:

You can remove the stock flex part from this flange using a metal ban saw or recip saw, but the stainless steel flex part has a tendancy to dull blades. My weapon of choice is a air chizel with a muffler splitter or fiberglass cutting disc/chop saw. Once the flex part is removed, you can clean up the opening using a standard carbide porting bit or equiv.

Once your flange is cleaned up, you can start building your exhaust system. Here are some of the parts I used:

You can get mandrel bent U-bends from summit or jegs, but they don't have a very tight radius. Napa sells a 3" radius, 3" mandrel bent 90 degree section, which is the one shown in the picture that I painted (which was going to be used for air induction on a earlier project). The Napa part number is 41221 and this is what you need to clear the trunk wall. The braided flex joint pictured is also 3" I.D. and Napa just started carrying them so you might have trouble having them look up the part. The part numbers I have that were printed on the tag were: FT300N8 and FT30004N. The center section (flex part) is made of stainless and reinforced by the stainless steel braid. The attachment nipples (pipe sections) come already welded on this particular model (which are mild steel) but you can order these flex pieces without or just cut them off if they are too long.

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-11-2004 03:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post

Before I forget, I need to mention GM made 2 different types of rear exhaust manifolds for the 97-up FWD engines. (the 95-96 3800 Series II engines used a rear manifold with doughnut gasket so the downpipe did not need the flex joint)

The C & H body cars amoung others with similar bodies used a rear manifold that dumped the exhaust just right of center of the vehicle. The W-body cars used a manifold that dumped the exhaust on the vehicle centerline. To tell the difference look at where the O2 sensor screws in. If your O2 hole is between the exhaust primary tubes you have the W-body style. If the center exhaust tube dumps right into the O2 (cylinder no. 4), you have the C/H body manifold. The W-body manifold will give you more room to route exhaust if you do it like what I am about to show you.

After cleaning up your pieces, you can weld the 90 degree, 3" dia, 3" radius bend directly to the flange. Basically you are going to want to shoot the exhaust straight out to the passenger side. Once that is welded on you can weld on the flex joint. Notice I cut off some of the nipple to shorten the flex joint and allow myself more room on the pass side for the upcoming 180 degree bend.

Installed on the car you should have pleanty of clearance between the flex joint and trunk heat shield. I was just barely able to get my fingers around it to verify this.

Now at this point you may choose to build your system differently. It is possible to continue on using all 3" mandrel bent sections, if you use the NAPA 3" radius bends and a small muffler... It WILL fit in the car. Since this is a 205hp L36, I see no need in spending money on a good, small-bodied muffler (magnaflow, edelbrock, etc) so I stepped down the tube size to 2.5" mandrel bent tubing on the 180 degree bend.

Again, a full size flowmaster is not going to fit very well in the space allowed so I suggest finding a muffler that has a body no bigger than 15" long, 11" tall, and 5" thick. If you can find a smaller one, you will have more room to work with. I know the edelbrock RPM Series? muffler has a very small body and I think magnaflow sells one in their wide-open series line as well. For this swap, I found a 2.5" in/out cheapy Cherry Bomb Turbo muffler that fit just fine.

The slight bend on the exit side of the muffler is neccessary to clear the cradle. The exhaust tip I used came off a 94 Trans Am LT1 car and exits flat in relation to the body. Once the car is on the road I will get some more pics of how it looks.

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Report this Post08-11-2004 08:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:
Hmm, how do I explain this. Personally I use the 94-95 3800 Series I SC computer, along with many others with engine swaps on this board and elsewhere. This computer is programmed from the factory to operate a 225hp/275tq 3.8L engine with 28 lb injectors. The Series II 3800 SC stock puts out 240hp/280tq and has 36 lb injectors. So right there you have a problem because of the bigger injectors and higher power output. The MAF can compensate fuel delivery to some extent based on increased air flow but cannot compensate for the larger injectors nor can it make changes to timing. The timing tables in the 94-95 PCM are based on a load value. While this load value is derived from the MAF value it is also based on RPM. These timing tables are set values in the chip that can only be changed by reprogramming. To put it quite simply, the Series 1 SC engine puts out 225hp which means it has different timing requirements than the Series II engine that puts out 240hp. Furthermore, if you get rid of the SC and add a turbo, things get even more tricky. For instance, the stock SC motors will build boost at WOT regardless of RPM. In my case, my turbo does have some slight lag (as turbos do) and will not build boost until the RPMs have reached a certain point. To put it another way my boost doesn't come up until about 2000-2500 rpm depending on what gear my trans is in and what speed I am going. Therefore I am able to give my engine more timing advance down low at a high load value which improves drivability and gas mileage. Trying to use this on a SC motor would result in detonation because the SC builds boost regardless of RPM.

I had forgotten about timing being preset and not boost dependant
so basicly yeah, too many variables are different so you use the series1 computer due to its ease of programability


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The Adjuster
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Report this Post08-11-2004 10:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for The AdjusterClick Here to visit The Adjuster's HomePageSend a Private Message to The AdjusterDirect Link to This Post

Sorry, I was wrong...we didn't wind up waiting on exhaust parts so I apologize. I get bits of info from Darth and I am getting a little over-exciting about seeing this car on the road this weekend. Which may or may not happen especially since a bunch of chiropractors that I know will be in town for a seminar this weekend and I may be dragging Darth to a bunch of dinners or at least make him the designated driver since every time we girls get together someone needs to have a level head! (we tend to have too much fun). Anyway, I am getting really excited and I kinda like the chrome exhaust tip.

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Kohburn
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Report this Post08-11-2004 10:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post

if you don't mind me asking what is it going into? a previously 4cyl coupe? (single tailpipe)

would be quite a sleeper

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KissMySSFiero
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Report this Post08-11-2004 10:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KissMySSFieroClick Here to Email KissMySSFieroSend a Private Message to KissMySSFieroDirect Link to This Post


 
quote
Originally posted by Kohburn:
if you don't mind me asking what is it going into? a previously 4cyl coupe? (single tailpipe)
would be quite a sleeper


 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:

It is finally time to get started on the woman's car, she was so happy to see it get rolled into the garage today. She has a 1985 2m6 SE that has a 2.8 and 125-C in it now but the motor knocks.

bumper pad V-6 car.

Darth,
Being a man who likes to save his money, Cheap, like me. Where's the best price for 2.5" mandrel pipe? You said you picked up some from NAPA, is mandrel pipe something they carry?(I guess I could call my NAPA store)
TIA

swap looks great btw. How much will you have in this swap? What did you pay for the motor/trans?


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The Adjuster
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Report this Post08-11-2004 05:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The AdjusterClick Here to visit The Adjuster's HomePageSend a Private Message to The AdjusterDirect Link to This Post

I'm not Darth but I can answer the question. I think this might just be the cheapest swap ever ...
Most of what was needed was just laying around collecting dust for this application...it is the leftover swap! No $ needed for motor, wiring, spark plug wires, exhaust pieces, computer and chip, fabrication metal, labor, ac lines and r134-a etc lots of stuff just was picked off the shelf, here's what we actually paid for stuff
$500 for car (guy lost his job and had to move, couldn't take it with him)
$300 for rebuilding tranny
$100 for misc, hoses, bolts, and fluids
$37 for exhaust flex joint, $27 for muffler, butterfly car seat covers and accessories $40
So we will have about $1000 in this car which included buying the car... so all in all a pretty good steal! especially since I'm sure it will be reliable and a mid14 sec car.

Oh and for a 180degree u-shaped piece of 2.5 exhaust from summit usually runs about $17-$18 so you get 2 of the 90degree bends.

Darth informs me he will be working on the wiring today, he should be able to post something tonight.

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Report this Post08-11-2004 07:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for A.BejcekSend a Private Message to A.BejcekDirect Link to This Post

Nice exhaust!

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-12-2004 03:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by A.Bejcek:

Nice exhaust!

Thanks, it is short, simple, and to the point just the way I like it.

 
quote
Originally posted by KissMySSFiero:

Darth,
Being a man who likes to save his money, Cheap, like me. Where's the best price for 2.5" mandrel pipe? You said you picked up some from NAPA, is mandrel pipe something they carry?(I guess I could call my NAPA store)
TIA

Summit/Jegs has the cheapest prices on mandrel U and J-bends, which you can cut up to get your 90 degree sections out of. The problem is the summit/jegs catalogs have a limited range of radius bends listed, but I have not talked to them on the phone to find out of you can get the small 3 inch radius stuff either.

I have a Napa exhaust catalog that lists a very wide range of sizes, radius, and different variations of bends. You can get 30, 45, 90 degree, etc and more kinds of bends in sizes of less than 2" up to 4 or 5" exhaust pipe. Most of their bends are mandrel, at least in the section of the catalog I have been ordering from. The drawback is they are expensive, unless you are good friends with someone who can get a discount.

Like I described earlier, that first bend right off the manifold flange needs to be a very short radius bend to clear the trunk and give you room for the flex joint. Obviously if you use smaller diameter pipe you will have more room to work with and you can use larger radius bends.

The one drawback to running this type of exhaust system, at least the way I have it oriented is that there is really not room for a dual-outlet muffler. There is physically room for the muffler, but not quite enough for the piping to the passenger side tip. The 85 2m6 rear bumper has very slight notches molded into the bottom to clear dual exhaust but they are hardly noticable so the single outlet looks fine. Worse comes to worse I can always add the other tip and put a 3-bolt flange in the pipe in which I can just tie it into the exhaust coming down from the motor before it gets to the muffler and add some change-out selective plates with different size holes to allow me to make the car louder or quieter. (effectively this would give you the choice of having wide open exhaust on the passenger side tip or completely blocked off which would make all the exhaust flow thru the muffler) This is what borla does on their F-body cat-back systems.

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 08-12-2004).]

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-12-2004 03:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post

Today I started on the wiring. Doesn't it look like fun!

I started with the 2.8L harness and removed most of the tape and conduit. I also seperated the body harness section that goes over to the C500 connector. This should only require cutting of 1 or 2 wires so just mark both harnesses or remember what they go to. In my case, I only had a ground and the P/N wire that tied into the other harness, all of the other stuff came apart.

What I accomplished today was got the C500 harness installed on the car.

There was some cutting/splicing/shortening/lengthening involved even at this early stage. I am trying to keep the wiring out of site as much as possible.

I also hooked up the EVAP purge solenoid, which I mounted to the EVAP canister bracket to keep it off the engine for a cleaner look.

Oh and as I promised, I got a pic of that upper radiator hose.

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-13-2004 02:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post

Worked on more of the wiring today. Also got the air cleaner assy installed. I performed the same "improved airflow mod" to this air cleaner assy that I did to the 3.4 DOHC swap I last did. I removed the structure in the bottom of the stock air cleaner that the long bolt screws into and replaced it with a more flow-friendly assy. Here is a pic of the last one I did:

Once that was done I installed the assy on the car and hooked it up to the 3800 throttle body using an air induction bellows I think came off of a 95 Lumina 3.4 DOHC engine. Might have been from a 93 (without the MAF) I am not sure. Again, one of those parts just laying around on the shelf.

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Report this Post08-13-2004 10:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KissMySSFieroClick Here to Email KissMySSFieroSend a Private Message to KissMySSFieroDirect Link to This Post

your making me want to do this in the 88 auto coupe I'm picking up this weekend.

Can the F-body aluminum intake be reversed to face the driver's side of the car? Just like in the Lt1 swaps. Even if modifying the intake like archie does is needed.
tia

edit to add exhaust question

Do you think you could turn the outlet from the manifold towards the drivers side. Then have the inlet of the muffler on the drivers side, and run a crossflow similar to the stock setup with duel outlets? Or is there not enough room to do that?

[This message has been edited by KissMySSFiero (edited 08-13-2004).]

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Report this Post08-13-2004 10:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SOULCRUSHERClick Here to visit SOULCRUSHER's HomePageClick Here to Email SOULCRUSHERSend a Private Message to SOULCRUSHERDirect Link to This Post

Cool setup Darth! I am sure The Adjuster will like! Hey, have you ever gone to this site? www.chassishop.com. I got a 3inch exhaust donut in 3 inch radius from there to do my exhaust which will be similar to yours, but will go out to two tips usung a Flowmaster 80. They also have turbo parts too. Just thought I would pass it along.

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-14-2004 01:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by KissMySSFiero:

your making me want to do this in the 88 auto coupe I'm picking up this weekend.

Can the F-body aluminum intake be reversed to face the driver's side of the car? Just like in the Lt1 swaps. Even if modifying the intake like archie does is needed.
tia

The intake mating surface on the block and heads is symetrical which means the intake can be reversed and will seal up to the block and heads no problem. The issues you will face however is the heater hose outlet and EGR tube connections would then be on opposite sides of the block and the throttle body may interfere with the stock crossover pipe. But as far as I can tell everything else should work.

 
quote

edit to add exhaust question

Do you think you could turn the outlet from the manifold towards the drivers side. Then have the inlet of the muffler on the drivers side, and run a crossflow similar to the stock setup with duel outlets? Or is there not enough room to do that?

Yea you can do that but again the problem you will run into is getting the exhaust into the muffler. If you use very tight radius bends it should work either way, pass side or drivers side. Also depends on the muffler size.

----------UPDATE------------

Wiring in the engine compartment is completed, with exception of the cruise control. Inside, the PCM connectors are wired up to the 2.8L harness and all that remains is wiring up the tranny and injectors (seperate harness coming thru manual trans shift cable grommet) to the PCM and she is ready to fire.

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Report this Post08-14-2004 01:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KekipiClick Here to Email KekipiSend a Private Message to KekipiDirect Link to This Post

Darth, I asked the Question about the exhaust a few posts ago. I am in the middle of swaping a 3300 Into My 86 SE and I have a Ocelot from TFS, I have a lot of money invested in and am Going To Use It. Thanks for the info I know I could not have figured it out Myself. I want to go around the trans to the stock location but now that I have Napa numbers Maybe I can shorten things and pull it off. Your Info is the greatest, Keep up the good work. Mike

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cptsnoopy
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Report this Post08-14-2004 04:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cptsnoopyClick Here to Email cptsnoopySend a Private Message to cptsnoopyDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:
I bought two ribbed pulleys, one to replace the tensioner and one to use as an idler and put them on.


can you post or email me what part number or year and type of car for your ribbed idler pulley?

thanks


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TimGully
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Report this Post08-14-2004 11:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TimGullyClick Here to Email TimGullySend a Private Message to TimGullyDirect Link to This Post

Oh, it's a flex joint! I've always wondered why the 3800s had that huge puck at the exhaust flange. Thanks for clearing that one up for me.

Also good info on the NAPA 3" flex & bends.

-Tim

------------------
84 Fiero, 3800SC Series II,4spd manual
12.90 @ 108.9mph

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The Adjuster
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Report this Post08-15-2004 01:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for The AdjusterClick Here to visit The Adjuster's HomePageSend a Private Message to The AdjusterDirect Link to This Post

Bad news...we gotta order a different part or something and it won't be in for a week or two...guess that is just what happpens with custom engine and tranny swaps...there's always a hold-up somewhere along the way and I guess we just had to hit it now while it was so close to being done! I even got to hear it run today (yippie!!!) so at least the wiring is pretty much done and there are some cosmetic issues that can now be taken care of in the mean time but sadly this car will probably not be shown at the Heartland show...but it is still here in town (Davenport) if someone wanted to see something in person. Oh well one less trip back to our house for the truck to bring the tables and easy ups for the show.

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Stinkin_V8
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Report this Post08-15-2004 11:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Stinkin_V8Send a Private Message to Stinkin_V8Direct Link to This Post

Sorry to hear that, Adjuster.. It really seemed to be cooking right along. What part was it?

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-15-2004 02:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


can you post or email me what part number or year and type of car for your ribbed idler pulley?

thanks

cptsnoopy, the idler pulleys are Dayco brand and the part numbers are:

89009 - 76mm 6-groove ribbed pulley
89015 - 70mm 6-groove ribbed pulley

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-15-2004 02:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Stinkin_V8:

Sorry to hear that, Adjuster.. It really seemed to be cooking right along. What part was it?

As was discussed earlier this was a budget swap done using parts I had laying around. Appearantly I mistakenly grabbed a Series 1 flywheel and put it on this Series 2 engine. When I started it yesterday I noticed a moderate virbration that remained constant with RPM.

The Series II 3800 has a 1 inch shorter deck height compared to the Series 1 3800's which means the rods have to be shorter in order to maintain the same stroke between the two engines. This means that there is less reciprocating mass in the Series II engines that appearantly has an effect on how much counterbalance needs to be incorporated in the flywheel.

The Series II flywheel is a different p/n than the Series 1 but gmpartsdirect lists the Series II unit as only costing $38 so I am just going to order a new one since I can't seem to find any used ones lying around. It is a minor snag but I can change it out without having to drop the cradle so it is no big deal. I have some other issues to deal with anyway like installing the CD player, seats, and fixing some cosmetic issues.

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-15-2004 11:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post

Oh yea forgot to post the pic of the engine:

Also got the electronic cruise control hooked up as well:

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-17-2004 03:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post

Good news, the new flywheel will be in by Wednesday so I should have this car ready in time for the Heartland show on Saturday.

Got the Delco CD player installed and seat tracks blasted and painted. Seats will prolly go in on tuesday and I will prepare the motor for pulling tuesday nite.

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Stinkin_V8
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Report this Post08-17-2004 01:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Stinkin_V8Send a Private Message to Stinkin_V8Direct Link to This Post

Great work! Keep it up!!

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The Adjuster
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Report this Post08-17-2004 04:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The AdjusterClick Here to visit The Adjuster's HomePageSend a Private Message to The AdjusterDirect Link to This Post

I was so excited when I heard the good news my car will probably be finished for the Heartland show I went out and bought a matching butterfly air freshener for my car...(ok I've now confirmed it, I am a geek) Anyway, it is beginning to look good and I can't wait to get it detailed out for the show and start driving it!!!

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Stinkin_V8
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Report this Post08-17-2004 04:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Stinkin_V8Send a Private Message to Stinkin_V8Direct Link to This Post

Heh, good purchase, Adjuster. You must be itching to get into that car! Are you planning to do any painting inside that engine compartment? I noticed Darth painted the injectors, are you continuing on with that?

Darth, you kind of skimmed over the shifter cable bracket but it's detailed pretty well on your web site in the LT-1 swap. Anything new there, or just the same ol' thing?

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-17-2004 05:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Stinkin_V8:

Are you planning to do any painting inside that engine compartment? I noticed Darth painted the injectors, are you continuing on with that?

I have a set of aluminum valve covers that we plan to have painted to match the injectors and plug wires. We also have plans to get ahold of the aluminum F-body intake and have it painted to match as well.

 
quote

Darth, you kind of skimmed over the shifter cable bracket but it's detailed pretty well on your web site in the LT-1 swap. Anything new there, or just the same ol' thing?

Sorry bout that, this project has gone together so fast I haven't had time to take a lot of pictures or talk about a lot of things. I actually have a bad habit of getting into a groove during a swap to just keep on working without stopping to take a break, or pictures for that matter. As far as the shift cable is concerned, you can do something similar to what I documented in the LT1 swap however the stock 3800 exhaust is really close to the shift arm so I had to shorten it a bit. I will try to remember to get some pics so you guys can see what I have done.

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cptsnoopy
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Report this Post08-17-2004 07:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cptsnoopyClick Here to Email cptsnoopySend a Private Message to cptsnoopyDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:


cptsnoopy, the idler pulleys are Dayco brand and the part numbers are:

89009 - 76mm 6-groove ribbed pulley
89015 - 70mm 6-groove ribbed pulley

Thanks a bunch!

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edhering
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Report this Post08-18-2004 03:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for edheringClick Here to visit edhering's HomePageClick Here to Email edheringSend a Private Message to edheringDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by The Adjuster:

I was so excited when I heard the good news my car will probably be finished for the Heartland show I went out and bought a matching butterfly air freshener for my car...(ok I've now confirmed it, I am a geek) Anyway, it is beginning to look good and I can't wait to get it detailed out for the show and start driving it!!!

Geeze louise you people are making me feel like a piker! You're practically building a CAR in time for the show when I can barely summon the energy to get my '85 detailed.... Oh well. I look forward to seeing the Heartland gang again (AND their cars) whether mine is detailed or not....

Ed

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The Adjuster
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Report this Post08-19-2004 12:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for The AdjusterClick Here to visit The Adjuster's HomePageSend a Private Message to The AdjusterDirect Link to This Post

It RUNS!!! Can you tell I'm happy!!! It sounds good too. As I am writing this Darth is still out in the garage working, for those of you who don't know he really does get into a groove and usually the last two weeks on a project are a whirlwind for him so I don't see him much...he tends to work from about noon till about two am each day sometimes longer and doesn't take much time for even a meal so I have to force him to stop and eat which tonight after I got home from school we had our pot roast and veggies and of course went right back out to the garage and bled the brakes since he needed my help! Anyway we put insurance on it and it shouldn't have too many problems getting out on the road tomorrow and once again I will be in school so I won't get to see its maiden voyage out of the garage with the newly upgraded power train. However, I am really happy to be able to bring in to the Heartland show and Edhering, I am not looking forward to detailing this car since it has sat for so long but at least it is relatively clean on the inside since the previous owner actually liked this car. A few magic erasers and some armour all and we should be in business.

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Stinkin_V8
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Report this Post08-19-2004 11:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Stinkin_V8Send a Private Message to Stinkin_V8Direct Link to This Post

Congrats, Adjuster!! You'll have to post a picture of your first burnout on the forum here!

Nice going, Darth. Another healthy conversion on the road. And by the sounds of it, another happy customer.

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cptsnoopy
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Report this Post08-19-2004 12:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cptsnoopyClick Here to Email cptsnoopySend a Private Message to cptsnoopyDirect Link to This Post

WHOOT!

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-19-2004 02:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post

Took it on its first drive today and it runs great. Even better than what it did in my car, probably due to the fact that when I had this engine in my car it had a stock chip, but now I have the ability to do a custom chip and get the timing right. It actaully pulls strong and evenly all the way to 5900 rpm and the trans shifts great. My thanks to my friend back in Fort Wayne, Indiana who builds all of my trannys.

Did run into one major snag, the front right brake caliper is not releasing so I went to O'Reilly's and got their cheap reman caliper for $15.49 which will work fine until I get the Grand Am brake upgrade done. Besides that the person who owned this car before us had all of the suspension bushings and shocks replaced so this car rides very nicely. I am beginning to hate the poly bushings that are on my turbo car. Might have to go back to stock rubber...at least in the front.

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