I’m wondering why you haven’t gone to more than one large manufacture and worked with two at once. I know manufactures don’t like that, but that’s why I do it. It gets the bean counters thinking about the other bean counters.
First thing they tell you is that if you go somewhere else they will drop the project. Then you tell them that if they were so intent on building your product that they shouldn’t worry about you exploring your options and opportunities. You tell them that you’re just trying to make sure that the intent of the bean counters isn’t to keep the product off the market.
Of course, never bluff, don’t say your doing something if your not. You’ll get caught with your pants down sooner or later. Always hold a full hand of aces and don’t be afraid to use them. Figure out the solution before you introduce the problem.
Aaron
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03:47 PM
Gridlock Member
Posts: 2874 From: New Westminster, BC Canada Registered: Apr 2002
Despite the song and dance, and the dinner meetings and the endless handshakes with guys in suits, there is only one thing manufacturers look at. ROI. Return on Investment. Talking with different manufacturers doesn't do anything unless one is willing to accept a lower ROI than another.
I got some advice a while back in this very area. Make your main business profitable. Choose a market and clean up. With that success, play with Fieros. There are very few people that are making money with them alone.
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05:10 PM
Dec 5th, 2003
Black_Havoc Junior Member
Posts: 7 From: Beaverton, Oregon Registered: Dec 2003
DKOV any new info for us? I just found out about this from Archie's technet. I would LOOOOVE a 6 speed for the 3.4 OHC Turbo I'm planning. I was dreading on paying 3700 for the 284, then saw this and almost fainted. What kind of clutch would be able to fit in the bell housing? I was thinking about a pull type tripple plate from Exeddy. They should hold about 1200HP and 1200FT lbs, so I don't have to worry about frying a clutch on a 500HP Turbo 3.4. And they make them for other GM FWD cars so with a blank flywheel I should be able to have the mounts machined into it without a big fuss. What is the prodjected price range for both the 5 and 6 speeds? I would pay around 2500 for the 6 speed. As long as it would hold the 500 HP beast I'm building. Thx.
------------------ Jim 87 2.5, 5 speed. 93 Eagle Talon TSi AWD, 5 speed, and yes its turbocharged ;)
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02:24 AM
Nashco Member
Posts: 4144 From: Portland, OR Registered: Dec 2000
I would pay around 2500 for the 6 speed. As long as it would hold the 500 HP beast I'm building. Thx.
Are you kidding? This is just getting out of hand. You mean to tell me the MOST you will be for a BRAND NEW AFTERMARKET 6 SPEED transmission that will take 500 HP reliably is $2500?
I really want this to happen, but I really worry about the logistics involved. I feel $5000 would be *fantastic* price for a 6 speed that would take 500 hp reliably and fit in a near stock configuration. With options like multiple available gearsets, limited slip, etc. I think $6-7k wouldn't be asking too much. Have you guys ever priced a real aftermarket transmission? Heck, just look at the price on custom *modified* Porsche transmissions, very comparable product.
Bryce 88 GT
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02:49 AM
Black_Havoc Junior Member
Posts: 7 From: Beaverton, Oregon Registered: Dec 2003
Originally posted by Nashco: Have you guys ever priced a real aftermarket transmission? Heck, just look at the price on custom *modified* Porsche transmissions, very comparable product. Bryce 88 GT
Actually I have never priced aftermarket FWD transmissions for a Fiero, because there are NONE. I read earlier he wanted it to be cheaper than the 284. Most people would think 5000 for this tranny is too much. I've seen some aftermarket tranny's for Supra's (RWD) that run anywhere from 5000 to 10,000 and are made out of the strongest steel, have bigger gears, bigger casings, double and tripple synchros etc. And they are capable of 2000 HP. Thats why I'm wanting to know the price, and in reality, 2500 is a little low. But thats what I'm willing to spend right now. It may change down the road, as he starts releasing them, how they hold up, and depending on how quickly I can get the 3.4 turbo built. I don't know why everyone gets so worked up on this list. I guess its just the "I'm on a computer, and can be as rude as I want to be" syndrome. Anyway, I have to work tomorrow, I'm out.
------------------ Jim 87 2.5, 5 speed. 93 Eagle Talon TSi AWD, 5 speed, and yes its turbocharged ;)
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05:22 AM
LoW_KeY Member
Posts: 8081 From: Hastings, MI Registered: Oct 2001
whatever the price is.. I think if people need it bad enough they'll pay. I think he plans for $2500 if he can sell enough, which I think he could being how pretty much any FWD GM car could use this tranny.
$2500-5000+ I'm buying it course I'll just stick with the 5spd.
[This message has been edited by LoW_KeY (edited 12-05-2003).]
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10:16 AM
Nashco Member
Posts: 4144 From: Portland, OR Registered: Dec 2000
You *must* be kidding; I would say the same thing to you whether you standing in front of me or if you were on a computer in India. I think you're dreaming if you think you can get a SIX speed transmission that will handle TWICE the power of the stock transmission for less money than a new stock transmission. Remember, we're talking reliably, not down a drag strip and being torn down several times each year, rather, like we use a transmission now...put it in and keep an eye on the fluid.
quote
Originally posted by Black_Havoc:
Actually I have never priced aftermarket FWD transmissions for a Fiero, because there are NONE.
Reason 1 why it won't be super cheap.
quote
I read earlier he wanted it to be cheaper than the 284. Most people would think 5000 for this tranny is too much.
That's why most people don't have modified transmissions, and why nobody to date has been willing to build a full custom tranny for the Fiero. Webster racing made some custom gears (four speed stuff), and I don't know of anybody that bought it except the GTP cars way back.
quote
I've seen some aftermarket tranny's for Supra's (RWD) that run anywhere from 5000 to 10,000 and are made out of the strongest steel, have bigger gears, bigger casings, double and tripple synchros etc. And they are capable of 2000 HP.
Got any links? I'd like to see how many (quarter) miles they can take 2000 HP! LOL, how many Supras are running 2000 HP in the first place? Also, how is the RWD tranny comparable to the Fiero tranny? That's why I said you should look at Porsche prices, the product is very comparable (tight packaging, self contained diff, etc.).
quote
Thats why I'm wanting to know the price, and in reality, 2500 is a little low. But thats what I'm willing to spend right now. It may change down the road, as he starts releasing them, how they hold up, and depending on how quickly I can get the 3.4 turbo built.
Well if you're planning on getting 500 hp from a turbo 3.4 on your seemingly unbelievably tight budget, I'm not going to hold my breath while you build the engine and get a manual tranny that will take the abuse.
quote
I don't know why everyone gets so worked up on this list. I guess its just the "I'm on a computer, and can be as rude as I want to be" syndrome. Anyway, I have to work tomorrow, I'm out.
I haven't said much of anything about this entire thread, I'm just getting sick of people constantly hassling DKOV about getting a race quality transmission for pennies on the dollar, and they need it right now. Like I said earlier, I haven't said a single thing on this thread that I wouldn't tell anybody in person. Some of the people need a serious reality check. Asking for a customized 5 speed for the same price as a new stock one is almost reasonable if DKOV does his homework. Asking for a full custom 6 speed for the same price as a new stock one is ridiculous. If it was that easy, wouldn't some of the OEMs have a FWD 6 speed with 500 hp?
Bryce 88 GT
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12:08 PM
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
I was in the Houston, Galveston, Matagorda area. Is that near you? Maybe next time eh?
-----------
aaron88...
The primary reason is that when you really dig into it, most of the BIG 4 are having many of their trannies done by the same company... the very same company that I'm working with currently. If I were to try and pit one against the other, they would end up going to the same source for the gear sets I'm using and that would blow the whole element of cross-fire.
I actually thought of doing that very thing but luckily I did my research before I came down with a serious case of "foot in mouth" disease. LOL!!!
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Gridlock...
You hit it on the nose... and that's what the biggest issue has been. We all feel there is huge demand and the ROI is high. BUT... look at GMs corporate direction based on their "experts"... they honestly think their buying public do NOT want manuals!!! If they have spent billions to discover this "fact", then why should the maufacturers believe a little guy over the establishment?
So... it's a matter of stepping up the plate financially and helping them "cope" by sharing the financial risk. Unfortunately, I'm not THAT rich. Still, I have faith in the process... it takes time, but it can work.
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Black_Havoc...
This is just exactly the kind of enthusiasm and messages that I print and add to my file that I show the Bean Counters and Execs when I am arguing about the Demand of these things. Thanks!!!
The clutch system is hydraulic based roughly on the 284. As much as we all think the Fiero is the best application for this, the "image" that best suits us is the implimentation of the W-Body cars, the 100s of thousands of them, that gives us the sheer percentage of numbers to interest the manufacturer. That is a Pull Style clutch.
Even so, changing to a push or using a pull style in a Fiero is not out of the quesion. In fact, I have a 284 in my car now and it works great!
You've hit something else of significance... The near $4000 new tranny from GM. It cost me $3200 to have my last 284 rebuilt. Serious money!!! My interest in keeping the cost of the tranny down is a matter of marketing and barrier to market. One thing to consider is that once this tranny is built, others will have access to the design and possibly the source. If they have more money, I'm in trouble. Unless I can be the firstest with the mostest... In other words, I get so many of these out there with my name on them, nobody thinks they can compete in price or in marketing. Great barriers to market. It keeps me in a position to recoup my investment and eventually, someday, make money on these things. If I get out marketed or out delivered before I make my costs... I'm Bank-O and this whole thing only put me in debt.
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Nashco...
In continuing what I just said above... it is possible that the trannies will cost more than I intend. That's always been a probability. It's based largely on Volume and how much the manufacturer buys into the concept. If they believe they will make it up on Volume, then our costs will be lower and the price will reflect that. However, if we get no support from them and have to foot the entire bill solely, then costs will reflect that as well.
There is a magic number that will cause a rush for the product and we need to hit that. AS much as a few are willing to pay $5000 for one, the vast majority probably will not. That's why it's imparative to come it at or below the doing price for the alternatives. Then, GM will be coming after US to build for THEM because nobody will be buying their $3700 rebuilt 282s and 284s.
And that's a GOOD day
The SIX speeds... odds are they will NOT be cheaper than the stock 282s and 284s but like I said, that the argument. I'm going to them with the interest in getting them UNDER the current costs. That way I have some room to negotiate, hopefully. I honestly believe we can get the 6-speeds under $4000, maybe even less than $3500 but only time will tell.
Ideally, it would dominate the market if priced accordingly. Reality... we'll see.
-----------------
FieroTurbo...
They are pretty, eh?
The RED was a custom job for one customer. Our standard liner is of the Black/Gray carbon Fiber you are used to seeing. The Red is also Carbon Kevlar with the Kevlar being the RED weave.
As posted above, they are currently discounted from $250 to $189 during our "pre release sale". I figured the best way to establish the liners would be to get a bunch out there and get the name recognition game going. So far, it looks great... we've go more than a dozen going out so far... near half of them custom.
As with the trannies... the more we can sell, the lower our costs get because of the bulk purchase and shipping of materials.
So, hop on board and get your liner now before the pre release sale ends... They go back up to retail soo.
Hey Scott we all appreciate what your doing. It is a big deal and remember their is alot of lurkers on these boards (including W-body) that will be serious also. In fact I bet they out number the post folks by a good margin.
I haven't e-mailed or posted to you in awhile because I am saving money. Money talks, and words are cheap so I need to save lot's for the 3.4 Turbo swap. But in the begining of next year I will contact you about sending my new 3.4 block up there for all your good work. I can't wait.
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03:14 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14226 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Anyone who thinks DKOV's prices are high needs to go price the Quaife sequential FWD 6 speed (can handle 450ftlbs). There might be 10 people on this forum who have more than the cost of that transmission sunk into their cars. I have a N* swap, overhauled Getrag, Konis, etc and I don't have half that much money in my car. www.quaifeusa.com
------------------ '87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc. '90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow
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05:50 PM
DKOV Member
Posts: 1564 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2001
Need a website to put stuff about your tranny on? I have a .com now, and I can make a sub-domain, like www.6speed.fieroturbo.com. I can even add you as an administrator to the site. I just got fieroturbo.com running, but with not much on it on Nov 15th, and I'm almost done with the much needed facelift, and should be done in a week or so. Let me know what you need.
------------------ Nitrously yours, Airman Michael C Casaceli United States Navy
Will work for Race legal HKS boost controller and custom ECM.
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09:54 PM
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
Hey, what's the shipping charge? And if I order that 3rd brake light cover, does that mean the headliner will come pre-cut for it toooo?
Dude, this thing is gonna be sweet! Is there a decent gap in that center hump of the headliner? I have plans to set up a switch panel down the center of the ceiling similar to the Navy P-3C Orion planes I work on, along with my boost controller and turbo timer.
-----
And BTW everyone... I am now the proud owner of a T3/T4 hybrid turbo for my Fiero.
Please, bow to me later, I'm busy.
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10:17 PM
DKOV Member
Posts: 1564 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2001
Shipping/handling just about anywhere is around $40 or less. To San Francisco for instance, it's about $25.
The 3rd brake light opening is not cut... sorry. I suppose we could do it for you for an extra $34,987.
The center channel is not heavily "humped" as you can see in the pictures... I think you could put switches up there if you wanted. OR... we could come up with something custom to replace the stock Fiero Map Light assembly
Best,
DKOV -
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11:39 PM
Dec 9th, 2003
FieroNate Member
Posts: 374 From: Fleetwood, PA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
Nashco, While I agree with you on a few things.... The idea of race transmission is different person to person.
I myself considered quite a few fiero related projects. I consdered a custom tube frame (which I am confident I have the expertise to design and build) but soon realized that for what it cost to make one and equip it as rolling for kit cars, that any sane person would probably go buy a Vette or an RX8.
I considered the whole manual idea and realistically desgining the thing isn't a big deal manufacturing is. But keep in mind most manufacturers don't make a beefy tranny for several reasons. #1 they have no market for a transverse tranny that handles over 300 ftlbs torque. In most states for MOST cars automatics are the buyers choice, they offer the manuals at an extra cost Some people want the manuals to add a little fun. But keep in mind they figure that most people that will want high performance will go to a different car, ie GTO, Vette, porsche... whatever...
how many people buy a cavalier with the intention of racing it? And from an engineering standpoint putting 500+ ftlbs to the ground is a challenge, not to mention that street tires (up to the latest 345s) can't handle more then maybe 600 engine ftlbs conservativly. Keep in mind that 500 ftlbs gets multiplied through the tranny and can be between 1000 and 5000 ftlbs at the wheels which is alot of torque.
As fir the 3.4 Turbo engine? I hardly think many people in this forum would ever put their engine to race abuse enough to worry about. I know several people who run turbos and one of them runs a 3.4 turbo camaro making over 340 rwhp and 400 rwftlbs on a stock 3.4.. thats not bad but certainly no LPE engine.
My 3.4 turbo project jut took an interesting turn as the emissions law was passed in my county. Not to mention that there is now a forged 3.1 crank available. My plans for a turbo V6 making 600 HP are very real... but on the street what the heck do I really need it for.. I just like to build stuff... if I had the money I'd be done already or have bought a vette or GTO
I beleived I mentioned that all things considered hish 2500 was a little low and 5K more like it. But then again are we talking Peak HP or average? How is it rated? I want to see some pictures, or at least a CAD render of it... I'm an engineer and think like one. I would have no problem when the time comes to pay 5K for a good tranny for my 3.4 engine.. but then there is the rest of the car that needs updating after that....
Overall I think that his price is a little low... the logic of making 2 models escapes me currently and the reason GM and others don't ahve a tranny rated like that is because of waranty.
my appologies for rambling (its finals week at school)... Just my thoughts on this. I know it costs about 25K to build a formula car based on a 600 cc engine... so project like this follows the normal R&D price scheme.. the first half of the oney gets you 90% there and the second half gets you the remaining 10%
Nate
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12:56 AM
FieroNate Member
Posts: 374 From: Fleetwood, PA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
Hmmm after reading the rest of this post, I have yet another idea. DKOV, any idea how many people are interested in kit cars? I have been tossing the idea of making a custom chassis for kit cars, which needs a drivetrain. If I can collect the right data I don't see it being that hard (considering my next to 0 labor costs) to design a base tube frame chassis for kit car use. I'm sure there are plenty of people on the list that are equally capable, however I'd be willing to do preliminary design for next to nothing. After working with the Formula SAE programs, I'd be interested to attempt a full size chassis design. I figure it would take ma about a year to work out all the details by myself considering the software I currently have.
At carlisle I noticed this as an issue with the Ferrari kits (oops I used the word).. and also the Lambo kits Fiero donors are great but have some features that make them a little harder to work with. For the cost of the finished car I think a tube frame can be made.
Yes I am young and ambitious but.. if anyone is interested in discussing it let me know FieroNate@aol.com
Just and Idea to extend your market. I am a fan of Midengines and would love to see the new Caddy engine paired to a 6 speed in a custom chassis with kick A@@ suspension on it. While i still question the reasons for racing on the street (imagine that coming from my young mind!!!) but people will buy it. The Noble is a good example of it (www.1gracing.com)
also e-mail me at FieroNate@aol.com to see whats left of my old web page.
Nate
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01:12 AM
Tom Slick Member
Posts: 4342 From: Alvarado, TX Registered: May 2003
Nate, You've read my mind. I can't build me a custom chassis but I sure would want one for a 355 kit. There are 355 kits out there that come close to the original but not exact. If I/we could use OEM body parts that would make the car almost identical to the original. Yes a 355 kit with a N* and 6 speed would be GREAT!!! Sure you could have a vette but how many 355's do you see, right...
toms...
[This message has been edited by Tom Slick (edited 12-09-2003).]
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07:41 AM
PFF
System Bot
Dec 10th, 2003
DKOV Member
Posts: 1564 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2001
Follow up on the Carbon Fiber topic that bled into this thread a bit... I post this quote from Chester from another thread because it speaks a bit to the intent and quality of workmanship that I am so proud of at DMS.
quote
Originally posted by chester:
Well peeps! I got my custom headliner today! I have to say that this headliner is a piece of art! It's awesome to say the least! I can't wait to get it installed in the car! DKOV - You've outdone yourself! Hats off to you for bring the Fiero community one AWESOME product!
Here are the long awaited headliner pictures! Mind you that mine is a custom red/graphite Carbon Fiber/Kevlar cloth. It’s so shiny that it’s hard to get a good pic of the color but I think I captured its beauty. Pictures really don't do it justice! I'm stoked. Thanks again DKOV and I'm looking forward to some other great products - in the same cloth for me!
BTW get me the cost on the grey/yellow and the silver kevlar cause now I won't hear the end of it from Elvira. She wants one too!!
Enjoy the pics people! This is a QUALITY product ALL THE WAY!
Say, DKOV have you considered a removable bell housing? With this option it could be used with multiple engines and cluches. This would help expand your market, possibly to other manufactures such as Chrysler and Ford. It would allow the option of being bolted directly to a sbc or a N*. Just a thought after reading through this thread and seeing all the different things people are expecting out of this thing.
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10:37 AM
Jan 3rd, 2004
OH10fiero Member
Posts: 1540 From: struther OH Registered: Jun 2002
We did consider a second bellhousing for adapting purposes but it connot be an add on piece to the main transaxle. Not enough room for that. What it would have to be is one HALF of the transaxle with the custom bellhousing for each application.
Which puts us back to the same place in the negotiations we are now... convincing the manufacturer that they can recoupe the costs of casting the new housings or that we'll build enough to warrant the time in building trannies at all.
It's an absolute certainty that they will build them for us. No questions asked.
All we have to do is pay for the castings and buy 50,000 trannies up front. Sure... no problem :
Good idea though.
DKOV -
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12:05 PM
Fastback 86 Member
Posts: 7849 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Sep 2003
Been doin a little plottin and schemin tryin to think of ways DKOV could get some help. Here's what I cam up with:
You don't want to try pitting the Big 4 against each other cause they get thier trannys from the same place, the company you're working with. Suppose you approached all 4 of them? Each of them could definatly find a use for a 6spd front wheel drive tranny. They're starting to figure out that there is a market for manuals, and people like having lots of gears to row through. There hasn't been a 4spd since the Getrag has there? If you approach all 4, then its equal opportunity and no ones fighting the other. If one decides they don't want in, at least they knew about it and had the opportunity to get in. That way they don't feel like you singled out thier competitor(s). Who knows, one, maybe all of them will buy a stake in it and that should get the tranny company's attention.
Also, have you thought about approaching race teams? There are a lot of 'tuners' out there souping up FWD cars that might be interested. Then there's the rally circut. There are entire classes of FWD rally cars, and some of them have very big sponsors. They all use manual trannys and I'd bet you could find a few who'd be interested in a 6spd. You might get a few rally teams to pitch in on development.
Just a few ideas.
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03:35 PM
LoW_KeY Member
Posts: 8081 From: Hastings, MI Registered: Oct 2001
Been doin a little plottin and schemin tryin to think of ways DKOV could get some help. Here's what I cam up with:
You don't want to try pitting the Big 4 against each other cause they get thier trannys from the same place, the company you're working with. Suppose you approached all 4 of them? Each of them could definatly find a use for a 6spd front wheel drive tranny. They're starting to figure out that there is a market for manuals, and people like having lots of gears to row through. There hasn't been a 4spd since the Getrag has there? If you approach all 4, then its equal opportunity and no ones fighting the other. If one decides they don't want in, at least they knew about it and had the opportunity to get in. That way they don't feel like you singled out thier competitor(s). Who knows, one, maybe all of them will buy a stake in it and that should get the tranny company's attention.
Also, have you thought about approaching race teams? There are a lot of 'tuners' out there souping up FWD cars that might be interested. Then there's the rally circut. There are entire classes of FWD rally cars, and some of them have very big sponsors. They all use manual trannys and I'd bet you could find a few who'd be interested in a 6spd. You might get a few rally teams to pitch in on development.
Just a few ideas.
hmm good thought.. you know GP's are souping up like crazy maybe check with Zoomer? I know they aren't sticks to begin with, but I've heard some people wishing they had manuals..
I know if you can offer the 5spd for less then the rebuild cost of a 284, and have it basically bolt in you will have some market with the W-body DOHC people. Not near 50,000 though. Approaching one of the big 4 would be the only way I could see to meet those numbers.
id personally like to see some pictures of the test transmissions if we can get some.
------------------ Brandon Edmonds
1996 Taurus SHO (my baby) 1986 Ford EXP (rust galore, but im keepin it!) 1986 Fiero (to be my street rocket) 1977 yamaha xs750-2D (in pieces right now, will be done for summer!)
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09:26 AM
LoW_KeY Member
Posts: 8081 From: Hastings, MI Registered: Oct 2001
Any Updates on this, DKOV? You have another 1st gen W-Body owner here who's nearly dying to see this come to reality. My project won't be complete for at least 3 years, probably more, but I'd probably be ready for this in about two, I'm hoping. For me, the 6-speed is the ideal option. I only plan on running ~300 FWHP, so I *think* I would realisticly be OK with one of the currently available options. But, if I could get a 6-speed for a little more money, I'd be all over it. Please keep us posted.
How are things going with your project? Have you given up the fight or are you still in discusions with the potential Manufacturer? I think you have alot of individuals who would be willing to invest in this endeavor and reduce your liability. Have you talked to the Manufacturer on possibly building a short production run to validate your demands?
You originally mentioned a minumum of 50k units but would they be willing to run 10-20k of them over the first year and see how they really sell?
I have 375HP Northstar that I would love to bring to 450-500 and attach it to either a 5 or 6 speed and would be willing to pay 2500-3000 for it.
Can you please give us an update on your situation and additionally how we may help?
Thanks for all your hard work and efforts todate.
Sincerely, NSTARHP
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02:56 PM
Apr 1st, 2004
virii01 Member
Posts: 515 From: Lincoln, NE, USA Registered: Mar 2003
Due to finances and honestly, FEAR, I've held off a bit to get some other things resolved to free up some cash to hit the project hard again in the Fall or late summer. I'm selling my other company right now and should make enough to virtually pay up front for those initial units... but that's where the FEAR comes it. What if I spend the money and build the units and CAN'T SELL THEM? What then?
I've been doing some addition and if I take 100% of the posters at face value in that they WILL purchase the unit as they say they will, that only sells about 100 of them total. 49,900 to go.
That could totally burn the entire stockpile of funds I've worked the past 6 years to gather in my other company. Is that a risk I'm prepared to take?
I think I'm prepared to SHARE that risk with a manufacturer that believes in this market and is, like you said, willing to do a smaller production run just to justify the expense. However, they really aren't concerned about what I may or may not accomplish with them... they just want he sale NOW. Period. Not worrying about any future sales. Is it because they believe it will never fly? I don't know.
What I do know is that I can't afford to risk all my revenues on this one single project at the moment. It's just not ecconomically possible right now. If a few Months. sure, but not now.
So hang in there... I've not given up, I'm just regrouping
I'd contact some of the ClubGP/L67 manufacturers (ZZP, Intense, etc) to see what they say. If an easy to install kit can be made I'm sure there is a market in the 97+ Grand Prix's and god knows there are enough of them running around. ZZP and Intense just split so there might be a need for a tranny to compete with Intense's 4T65 unit...
Might also try some VW places
And one last idea, the Ford SHO crowd. The manual tranny that they got is not known as reliable :P.
Maybe if you can provide the above places with a tranny, they can gather the rest of the parts for a kit and worry about making it fit and work right.
[This message has been edited by brian89gp (edited 04-01-2004).]
course I'll just stick with the 5spd.
