this is on and 87 gt 5speed

first i though it was my slave cylinder. so i bought a new slave cylinder put it in and bead it. the same thing. it wont move far enough to disengage.

could something inside my bell housing be out of wack. this was a slow process. it started to get hard to shift and not want to go in to first. then it would take some searching to get it in to 2nd and 4th then it was gone completely.

i know my clutch pedal isn't bent i check that. and i'm sure there is no air in the system.
i can see the slave cylinder move the clutch arm a little under an inch i think i would need just a little over an inche to disengage.

sorry this is so long i hope some one knows whats wrong and can help.

Try v8archies website. He has a lot of information on setting up the clucth or go to Ogres cave and look in there. I would tell you to try a shim or Rodney's adjustable banjo fitting but you need to make sure that all is working well. The places I pointed out to you have the technical information you would need to check out your clutch system.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 09-13-2002).]

Sounds like the fork arm that controls the throw out bearing is bent , this is a comon occurance in our Fiero's . Get your self an old push rod and cut it about an 3/4 inch longer than the stock rod that is supplied with the Slave cylinder ,OEM , install , should work like a charm .

The arm that controls the throw out bearing after 16-20 years becomes a little bit worn .
To much play !

Give it a try , Couldn't hurt .

Galen Smith
Red 85 Sport Coupe
Founder of Suncoast Fiero Club
Florida Fiero Council

Galen is correct......again....lol. I recently had the same problem and just put a bolt in place of the slave to clutch arm rod to make it a little longer. I am assuming that your hydralic system is properly bled and working properly. This worked perfect for me. Hope it helps you.

Phil

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GTDude
OVER 25 years GM experience

well i read archies methods and i didn't do the last step of takeing the bleeder all the way out and then push the rod all the way into the slave then putting the bleeder back in and tighting it. if that doesn't work i'll put a longer rod on the slave. thanks for the posts. i'll let you know how it turns out

Rigging it is ok and works, but if there is still problems, go ahead and get new forks, and then recalibrate your cables.

whats ringing it mean.

i figured out what the banjo is and it is int the right spot and there is no play in it

i dont think there are any leaks becasue when the pedal is pushed in i can see that the clutch arm does not move back towards the slave at all. i just need the slave to move a littel farther.

one other think i forgot to mention.

yesterday i was just trying things.. so i had the pedal pushed in all the way with the slave not bolted on. i kept the clutch pushed in. then i attached the slave to the bell housing as i tightend the nuts down the in the last few turns the clutch disengaged.
then i released the clutch and pused it back in and it didn't move far enough to disengage it.

i hope i dont have to pull the tranny and replace the cluth fork. it took me so long and was a very tuff job when i replaced the clutch a year ago.

[This message has been edited by GTMike (edited 09-14-2002).]

[This message has been edited by GTMike (edited 09-14-2002).]

quote Originally posted by GTMike: a new up date. i only have 9/16 of an inch throw at the slave cylinder. i'm guessing that means i still have air in the system somewhere. or my master is leaking internally because there is no fluid leaking on my floor.

So have you tried putting that longer rod in it yet?

Archie

here is and update. i took the master off just to check it out up close and as i figured there wasn't a problem at all.

and i have blead the system according to your site (archie) over and over.

the longer rod???? archism #7 on your site says it wont do anything except chenge where its starts its throw to being deeper in the slave. so it will still move 9/16 of an inch but it will start deeper in the slave.

its got the steal pedal and its not bent
banjo is in the right place
brand new slave
master not leaking
checked bell houseing bolts and slave cylinder bracket bolts. they are all tight

the only other possible problem could be air some where. or they gave me a slave clyinder that has a differnt volume or something.

can anyone think of any other problems?

Other possibilities:

> Internally dorked-up master cylinder

> Bent pedal. Even though it's steel, it still could be bent. At rest, I think the clutch pedal should sit a bit higher than the brake.

> Worn pedal bushings

> Worn master cylinder pushrod eye, bushing, or pin

> Master cylinder pushrod too short. I had this problem when I replaced my master cylinder: the new pushrod was about 1/4" shorter than the old one. Get Rodney's adjustable pushrod.

If slave cylinder travel is too short -- and 9/16" is too short -- then the problem lies "upstream" of the clutch release arm, in the pedal or hydraulic circuit. You might also check the clutch arm and slave cylinder bracket for bends or fractures; however, that shouldn't affect slave cylinder travel.

Using a longer slave cylinder pushrod is not likely to help. That won't change the amount of slave cylinder travel, only the location of the slave cylinder piston.

quote Originally posted by GTMike: the longer rod???? archism #7 on your site says it wont do anything except chenge where its starts its throw to being deeper in the slave. so it will still move 9/16 of an inch but it will start deeper in the slave.

OK, listen real close...... IMHO, before you go taking the whole thing apart or worrying that you have a bent clutch arm ..... you need to think this thru.

Here is what I think your problem is.

You'll note that at the fully extended end of the slave cylinder there is a snap ring in the end of the bore to keep the piston from coming out of the end of the bore.

IMHO, your problem is that as you push down the pedal the piston is reaching the end of the bore before the pedal reaches the floor. The piston stops traveling when it reaches the snap ring in the end of the bore.

The only way to solve this is to move the beginning point that the piston starts it's throw in the slave & make it deeper. So that upon full travel it doesn't hit the snap ring in the end of the bore. (or you can move the slave closer to the arm)

Now you've already spent $100 on brake fluid and a slave cylinder and everybody has already told you to tear the thing apart..... go over to the hardware store and buy a 3/8 Dia. bolt that is about 1" longer than your current rod and cut off the bolt head and put it in there.

Archie

thanks for posting

i dont think the longer rod would work because when i take the slave cylinder off the bracket the spring inside the slave will push the arm way out like another inch.

i did tare apart my first slave and check it and i made a spacer out of a nut and stuck it in the cup of the clutch arm to give me about 1/4 inch deeper in the slave and it didn't work.

in the morning i will doubble check that its not hitting the snap ring. if it is i will be very very happy becasue that means all i have to do it get a longer rod.
wouldn't the pedal get hard if it was hitting the snap ring? mine goes to the floor smoothly.

one more think this problem didn't happen over night it took a few weeks of tuff shifting then not being able to shift.

the fluid leve has never went down since i bought the car a long time ago.

thank you for your posts it has help me learn alot about the clutch system. i just wish i could figure this thing out.

[This message has been edited by GTMike (edited 09-14-2002).]

I had similar problems. New Master and Slave, good lines and clutch pedal. Proper bleeding made no difference. A longer rod in the slave didn't help because the hydraulic nature of the system would "readjust" eventually and you'be back to where you started.

I finally fixed the problem permanently with Rodney Dickman's Adjustable Clutch Banjo http://www.rodneydickman.com/retail.html

I set it to be 1" longer than the rod I took out of the Master cylinder. I works great, "feels right" and it is not bottoming out in the Master cylinder (pedal can still travel to the floor). I haven't had a single problem since, and no readjustment has been necessary.

I can only assume the Master cylinder I bought (not GM) either has a slightly smaller bore or shorter push rod than the original. I no longer had the original to compare it to.

,

[This message has been edited by GTMike (edited 09-15-2002).]

quote Originally posted by Archie: OK, listen real close...... IMHO, before you go taking the whole thing apart or worrying that you have a bent clutch arm ..... you need to think this thru. Here is what I think your problem is. You'll note that at the fully extended end of the slave cylinder there is a snap ring in the end of the bore to keep the piston from coming out of the end of the bore. IMHO, your problem is that as you push down the pedal the piston is reaching the end of the bore before the pedal reaches the floor. The piston stops traveling when it reaches the snap ring in the end of the bore. The only way to solve this is to move the beginning point that the piston starts it's throw in the slave & make it deeper. So that upon full travel it doesn't hit the snap ring in the end of the bore. (or you can move the slave closer to the arm) Now you've already spent $100 on brake fluid and a slave cylinder and everybody has already told you to tear the thing apart..... go over to the hardware store and buy a 3/8 Dia. bolt that is about 1" longer than your current rod and cut off the bolt head and put it in there. Archie

Thank you archie.....the very same thing worked great for me......no matter what the nay sayers may say.

Phil

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GTDude
OVER 25 years GM experience

i'm on my way to the store now. i'll let you know how it turns out.

here is a picture of what i'm going to try in place of the original slave push rod

[This message has been edited by GTMike (edited 09-15-2002).]