Any of you that have read my other topics know I am looking into an '88 Iron Duke Auto. I know its not going to be any kind of screamer, but I would like at least a little kick in the pants. Maybe even the ability to keep time with my friends '93 Civic manual . So are there any reasonably cheap and easy mods that I can do? (Yes, I have searched the archives)

Now I am not trying to make a race car out of this, I'd just like to get a little more 'umph' out of it. And I don't have anywhere near enough knowlege to drop another engine in (funds notwithstanding).
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Never pull your pants down in Cosco, the dang monkeys will getcha
AIM: KSSouter

[This message has been edited by Sootah (edited 09-10-2001).]

Also, do you think that I will have to change the blinker fluid and replace the muffler bearings on it?

quote Originally posted by Sootah: Also, do you think that I will have to change the blinker fluid and replace the muffler bearings on it?

I recommend valve stem lube.
Seriously today I dove my 88' coupe for the first time in about three months. It is a basic 5 speed coupe, it has it's own sort of "power," enough to make the car spirited but not a racer by any means. I doubt that you will be able to make simple mods to make it keep up with the newer stick civic. ReallyI see coupes as good crusiers for the highway, but it would suck to have one in town.

I think the best cheap mods are like any other car. Get better air filter, better exhaust (get rid of/gut the cat if possable I heard they are very restrictive). With the DIS you dont have to worry about timeing. So maybe add some nice new plugs and wires. My duke seems to be allot smother with Mobil 1 in it. Maybe add that. Add lots of stickers (joking). Honestly these mods will get you a tad over 100HP. The dukes have very little performance add on stuff out there. If you do work on them and get over a certan horsepower number they basicly kill themselfs. If its a stock civic maybe you could take him at certan times with more torque. But any moded civic will take you.

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88 Fiero Coupe...

Scope this site out, has all you wanted to know and more. http://dukemods.50megs.com/WEB%20PAGE/PAGE1.html

Stick a fart can on the back of the exhaust and a couple of VTEC plaques on the sides just in front of the doors. Guaranteed to knock off at least 2 seconds from your 0-60 times.

Seriously, about all you can do is to make sure you've got a clean air filter, maybe replace the ignition coil, and switch to a less-restrictive exhaust w/out cat.

Or you can go here: http://www.kickhill.com/mechelec.html and consider getting a 4-> 6 cyl conversion kit.

quote Originally posted by LarryB: Stick a fart can on the back of the exhaust and a couple of VTEC plaques on the sides just in front of the doors. Guaranteed to knock off at least 2 seconds from your 0-60 times.

Shouldn't that read.

Guaranted to add at least 2 seconds to your 0-60 times.

this is where most people are misinformed,they are right(or at least half right) there are performance parts they just don't work on 87 and later cars because of dis.

"Iron Duke" and "Performance" dont belong in the same sentence if you ask me...

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Tyler Morgan
1986 GT Fastback,

Holley Ram-Air, Power Steering, K&N Filtercharger, Bosch Wires, Bosch Platinum Plugs, Conrad Distribuiter Cap/Rotor, New GT Seats, New Headliner, New Carpet, Ocelet Exhaust, Red Underbody Light Kit (coming soon)
Aim=FieroDriver1986

For the 87 Duke above:
K&N Air Filter
Holley Side Scoop
Factory dual quad tip exhaust
Factory DIS (direct ignition system)

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88 GT, 5-spd
87 SE 4-cyl, 5-spd

[This message has been edited by Kelvin Vivian (edited 09-10-2001).]

So, K&N filter, no cat (won't that mess up the backpressure, and why in the hell do you even NEED backpressure? You'd figure that you would want the exaust to suck the fumes out...) and at least 3 or 4 'Type-R' stickers. Or do you think that I could just rattle-can a big ole 'R' on each door?

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Never pull your pants down in Cosco, the dang monkeys will getcha
AIM: KSSouter

I have a fuel mod for ya...
Go to any hobby store that deals in model aircraft and buy a gallon of 30% to 50% nitro glo-plug fuel...
When you have a quarter of a tank, add the nitro, and fill it up with gas...
Depending on your tank size, you will have a very nice mixture that will run well without burning up your engine...
I used to add 2 gallons of 30% to a tank in my Nova when I went drag racing...
crash...

I like it; I don't know if I have the balls to try it, but I like it.

Just don't keep it in your tank long. That stuff likes to absorb water.

Isn't that the same as adding mothballs to a tank?!?

Adding mothballs to gas works when the mothballs contain napatha. Napatha increases the octane rating, but it will also leave deposits in the combustion chamber, so it isn't really recommended that you do it.

Glow motor fuel is a mixture of castor oil (some fuels use a synthetic based oil or some other lubricant), alcohol and nitromethane. The only thing that's going to add any (if any) performance is the Nitro since there isn't going to be enough alcohol to burn at it's ideal ratio. it could actually lean the motor out if it doesn't stay mixed with the gasoline. Now since the higher nitro ratio fuel costs about 35-50 dollars a gallon, depending on the brand and the ratio, you're not going to want to do this for daily driving. The castor oil isn't going to do much except add oil to the top of the piston where it will either burn (it doesn't at glow motor temps, but Fieros don't use glow plug engines. (unless it's a Fiero bodied r/c car) And it might get hot enough to burn.

I guess you can make your own decision on if it's similar to mothballs or not.

[This message has been edited by Leper (edited 09-11-2001).]

Never put moth balls in the gas!
How will they reproduce??
Besides, it gums up the injectors...
Naptha is already in gas, but the nitromethane gives you the kick!
The alcohol helps to keep the nitro mixed, and nothing wrong with a little top end lubrication...
crash...

Aftermarket Cat (or no cat if you can)
Good plugs and wires.
Fuel filter.
K&N air filter.

Good bearings, grommets, alignments, properly tuned.

I love to drive my 85SE (Isuzu 5sp) Iron Duke in town. Remember it is a torque heavy, not a high horsepower, engine and drive it accordinly.

This is what I have done to my 88 coupe. Hooker header ($200), K&N Filter ($25), Chrome Edelbrock air cleaner lid/stock base cut down to expose filter ($12), Remove cat and replace with 2 1/4 pipe ($40), Supertrapp muff ($28). I feel a big improvement on my 2-3 and 3-4 shift.

Rob

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qwikgta@yahoo.com
88 T-Top coupe, 65K, Header no Cat, 16" GTZ rims, short shifter, swaybar, open element air cleaner, hood vents.
http://www.homestead.com/robsfieroproject
http://www.vafieros.com

"""no cat (won't that mess up the backpressure, and why in the hell do you even NEED backpressure"""

Ummm, im pretty sure getting rid of a cat helps. They are very restrictive. I'm not an expert on this stuff by far. But I read allot of auto forums, and this is allways one of the most heard of tips. Anyone else know some more info on the "cats"?????

from what I understand, if you remove the cat, but keep the muffler, you should maintain a healthy amount of backpressure and not lose much torque. I removed the cat on my v6 and can't say that it gives you noticable speed increase, but the ass-o-meter gives this mod a perfect 10! Especially if you replace the cat with a cherry-bomb muffler, but mine fell off because I didn't install it properly. I ended up just welding on a pipe. It lowered my engine bay temp and increased my gas mileage, noticably on both ends. Have fun with your little dukes
Mike S http://surf.to/fiero

http://www.homestead.com/Fiero2M4/IronDuke.html

Where do I get a Holley scoop?

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Suck this, Bin Laden:
AIM: KSSouter

quickgta,
Hooker headers for an '88 Duke??? Damn!!! Every time I looked in their catalog, I only found them for the 84-86 dukes. Is this an actual header for the 87-88 4-cyl, or did you mod it to fit? And if so, how?

Bump. I was serious bout wantin dem purdy dancy flayms.

quote Originally posted by Sootah: Bump. I was serious bout wantin dem purdy dancy flayms.

Not sure what that meant but if you want type r stickers and flames and sh** check out my boyz web page www.gtstickers.com or give us a call at 415-758-2755 Ask for Jay or me (Jonathan)

Oops, I did th original post about wanting my thread to be 'on fire' in my 88 coupe vs 85 SE thread. Sorry bout the confusion.

-Sootah

TI_3
I responded to an add in "The Mall" for a header for a 2.5 The guy who was selling it had it on his 88 engine. I asked the same questions about the years too. He convinced me that it would fit. I got it in the mail a few days later and when I checked it to the stock mani they looked the same. I even used a new 88 gasket. I painted it up with some high temp paint and put on a 2 1/4 inch pipe out to a supertrapp muff. The supertrapp has 12 disc's on it so it is very free flowing. NO CAT. The header with the open element air cleaner (homemade) has made a diff. I feel it in "the pants" on my 2-3 and most 3-4 shifts. I love it and almost got another header for my 87 coupe. I have no prob keeping up with my 2.8 buddies. Any other ??? just let me know or see my webpage for pics and info.

Rob

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qwikgta@yahoo.com
88 T-Top coupe, 65K, Header no Cat, 16" GTZ rims, short shifter, swaybar, open element air cleaner, hood vents.
http://www.homestead.com/robsfieroproject
http://www.vafieros.com

quote Originally posted by Kasdan: "Iron Duke" and "Performance" dont belong in the same sentence if you ask me...

Funny that's the same thing the v8 crowd would say about your v6.

quote Originally posted by erikred: Funny that's the same thing the v8 crowd would say about your v6.

I wouldn't put a bunch of money into making power with the 2.8 either.

The Duke has alot of potential, even when it comes to bolt-ons. You just have to dig really deep find it, so many people are mislead by the little incorrect information that is available. The other drawback is that if you go the bolt on route it is expensive. However with the correct combo of mods you should be able to obtain at least 120 HP. 150 HP is not unreasonable either, but like I said doing it with bolt-ons is pricey. Most people agree this is a safe level for the stock bottom end, and it is about a 20% increase. Not quite a racer, but should go a long way towards make the car more fun.

Without a dout change to a K&N type filter first ($30-$50). I have noticed a difference on every car I have installed these on (none on Fieros yet). You should be able to get material from the hardware store and make a cold air induction with a K&N cone filter without much trouble ($50-$70 complete).

The second thing you should do is take care of the exhaust. Either buy a high flow system or remove the cat and replace with a high flow cat ($100)or piece of straight pipe(<$10). Replace the muffler with a good performance one ($15-$100), or replace it with straight pipe and get one of those ricer exhaust tips ($50-> ). After you have done this, or at the same time if you go with a completly new exhaust, get the hooker header($250). The engine should "feel" a little sportier by now.

Now that the engine can get more air to the TBI and its not so hard to push it out the exhaust bigger HP gains can be made. If money is no object, you could bolt on a Aluminum Super Duty head ($800) and intake manifold ($215)from GM. The cheap way would be to gasket match the stock head and intake manifold($10-$20). This step is not quite as critical as others though.

Next have a performance cam installed. The stock cam leaves much room for improvement. Try to keep the redline close to 5500 RPM for reliability. Almost every cam vender sells cams for this motor. You can buy one for as little as $50. If you want to stay with the stock roller lifters instead of hydraulic (more common)you will probably need to have one custom made. Again we are talking $$$. Maybe around $200. BTW, While the cam is off make sure to have the mechanic install metal timming gears. If you do not you will wish you had. You will need lifters too($40Hyd. $165Roller). Roller rockers($174)are available also. Power gain would be questionable on a mild engine though.

With all this increased air into the engine you will need to up the fuel supply. On pre 87 fieros this is easy, just buy the Holley TBI. Unfortunatly it is not made for 87 up motors. However there are things that can be done. It should not be hard to build an adjustable fuel regulator($almost free). I have some info on this if you need it. Turning up the pressure will increase the fuel. This will help the computer compensate for the flow changes. You could also install a higher flow injector from the junk yard. Ask to buy an old TBI form the core pile (about $5). I have some info on what injectors to look for. A combo of the two would be good.

Crane and MSD both make spark boxes that will work for the DIS motor. Accel makes coils ($35 ea. you need two). Get the lowest resistance spiral core wires you can find. Use high quality spark plugs and gap them exact. I am not talking about Splitfires or Bosch Platinum +4 plugs just some good affordable plugs.

I want a little overboard here, but I think it will help you by getting the bigger picture. The mod that is going to make the most difference is the cam (if chosen correctly) but do not do it until the other stuf has been done.

If you need more info. on vendors, products, links ect. let me know by email. It may take a while to get back with you though.

quote Originally posted by erikred: Funny that's the same thing the v8 crowd would say about your v6.

I know, thats why i havent.

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Tyler Morgan, 1986 GT

Power Steering, Holley Scoop
Aim=FieroDriver1986

Things I am likely to do:
K&N Filter
No Cat
Performance muffler
Usual tune-up (cap, rotor, plugs, wires)

I don't know about the performance cam. Sounds a bit beyond my ability. If I am gonna do something to it, I'd like to do it myself. Thanx Erikred, kick ass.

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If you don't want them to know, tell them you have herpies
AIM:KSSouter

Cams http://www.amotion.com/p4.html http://camcraftcams.com/index2.html http://www.compcams.com/ http://www.iskycams.com/ http://www.ultradyne.com/pontiac_151_4_cylinder.htm http://www.cranecams.com/master/apps/pontiac1.htm

engine http://www.cliffordperformance.com/main.htm
http://www.holley.com/nIndex.html http://www.spoperformanceparts.com/

here is most of what I've found for the Iron Duke

[This message has been edited by baldlobo (edited 09-15-2001).]

Actually, you have to be carefull what you shove in a DIS motor. Unless you want to learn from scratch how to program on the 1227748 ECM... There are no aftermarket chips for DIS that I'm aware of.

Well.... I wouldn't put Accell coils on a DIS motor again if you paid me. Biggest peices of crap I've seen in years. The one for HEI isn't any better. (This is covered in my DIS notes article.)

I'm going back to Magnecor8mm wires as soon as I can. I have Borg Warner on it now. BW isn't bad, just that Magnecor is better.

I won't get into allot of detail about "low resistance wire." In most cases it's BS. Go wander around a few race tracks for awhile. Ever notice? Magnecor doesn't sponcer race cars or races... Yet an awfull large amount of racers use them and can't be paid to change away from them.

I have a DIS motor.... It's run the POS accell coils. They suck.

A number of people, including me, have tried Split Fire. They don't do a thing for a DIS motor. DIS already runs a .060 plug gap, one of the largest of any stock motor. How much more open can you get? (Split Fire is made by the same people who make Peak and Sierra antifreeze. The antifreeze is allot better than the plugs.)

Bosch Platinum don't work in DIS. (regular or Plus 4) the thin center electrode burns out of them. They aren't a bad plug. They just don't work in this application. A number of people have tried it...

I've got Autolite standard resistor plug in. They've given no trouble at all. The "double platinum" from AC or Autolite might work. They are both suposed to be designed for DIS. I can't see the cost when I get 2-4 years out of the regular ones.

Why do you need backpresure? for one it's what makes the EGR work. In these motors a screwed up EGR about guarantees knock/ping. For another, many OE engines are disgned around certain amounts of back pressure. eliminating to much BP can actually screw up performance.

If anything do a high flow catalyst. Modern HF cat's are nearly as free as straight pipe. Any option that eliminates the cat is illegal in all 50 states.

All Fiero already have cold air intake. The DIS motor's intake couldn't flow any more air if it had to. I seriously doubt any aftermarket intake will flow more air...

Since DIS motor also uses a MAT sensor, intake temperature isn't as big an issue. The ECM can adjust to intake air temp very quickly. The only time intake air temp climbs much above ambient is at idle when flow is low and has time to be heated by the engine bay. I've measured temperature swings of 100+F in just a few seconds when hitting the gas after idle.

the #1 thing in a DIS motor is making sure all sensors work correctly.

DIS motor is a torque monster. For it's size, it makes more torque than many motors made today. (Torque vs. cubic inch) Torque is what get the car out of the hole and a DIS motor gets out of the hole al hell of allot quicker than many would think. I have no qualms about pulling into highway traffic with my bone stock DIS motor. Bigger motors might beat me off the line but they are often hard pressed to shake me when I decide to chase one. That's on top of about 27mpg fuel consumption.

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11-Sept-01, The day the world as we knew it ended.

You're only getting 27 MPG? I get 24 with the 2.8 and I rarely go easy on it.

I am a fan of the iron duke though. I drove my sisters Grand Am the other day and the 2.5 in that suprised me.

27 diving back and forth to work... If I do all highway I've gotten around 32. Mine's an automatic so it winds a bit higher than a 5 speed on the highway. On the other hand the TC means I'm dumping more than the rated crank torque into the tranny. If you figure just a small 1.2:1 multiplier, thats around 162pound feet. I think it's more than that peak but I can't find an accurate spec for the TC multiplier. At anyrate, it gets into traffic just fine. I've more than burried the speedometer on it a couple times and it wasn't wound out doing it either.

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11-Sept-01, The day the world as we knew it ended.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 09-15-2001).]

at full throttle, transmission in gear, and vehicle standing still, the converter is capable of multiplying engine torque by approximately 1.95:1. In first with a 2.84 gear X 1.95= 5.54 starting ratio. 131x5.54=725.74 Ft lbs of torque.
Hydra-matic:THM 125: Principles of Operation; First Edition

Sh_t... Just guessing I figured 1.3:1 was a good number... I posted 1.2 above to be conservative. I'd like to read that book sometime. In the numbers your citing, that explains a hell of allot. Like I said, These DIS/auto setups get into traffic with no problems. Way better than my 2.3 liter ford motor used to and that thing was no slouch. (That motor had nearly 200,000 miles on it when it finaly quit. I drove it over 100 miles with a major ring or rod problem and still was able to do 55mph plus. I was not a happy camper the day it went to scrap.)

In the 87-88 DIS motor:
135 pound feet at 3200 RPM peak (source ALLDATA CDROM)
X
1.95
=
263.25 pound feet at the input shaft of the transmission.
and that's ignoring gearing...

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11-Sept-01, The day the world as we knew it ended.