Is there anyone here who is familiar with the rear sequential turn signals that were on the late ‘60s, early ‘70s Cougar? I guess I'm easily amused, but I was always intrigued by the Cougar's rear turn signals. The Ford (Mercury) Cougar had three (red) lights on each side in the back, and when the turn signal was put on, first the inner light would come on, then the centre one, then the outer one. They'd all be on for a split second, then they'd all go off together, and the sequence would start over again. Each cycle would take about a second.

Since the Fiero happens to have the correct number of lights in the back, I'd love to be able to duplicate this action. Does anyone know what I can use to mimic this effect in my Fiero? It's probably just an inexpensive electronic component that I'd have to rewire into the system, so I'm hoping that someone here can point me in the right direction.

It'll probably take an "old-timer" to answer this one because the younger guys may never even have seen what I'm referring to.

You might try these two links:
http://members.nccw.net/webe/sts
http://www.blinkblink.com
They have kits for this. You can probably come up with something if you go to Radio Shack or other electronics store. I've thought of doing this myself, I think it would look pretty cool!
Later,
Stenny

Stenny, that's amazing! I had NO idea that there were other people out there with my same affliction.

There are pictures of six Fieros at the first site that all have sequential turn signals installed! Wow!!! For anyone who doesn't know what we're talking about here, I'll try to link to a picture that should look somewhat familiar. This is actually three separate images, so I hope it works.

Thanks Stenny, I'm glad you think it looks cool too. These sites are great, but I don't want to buy some fancy kit when the actual part I need probably only costs a few bucks. Hopefully someone can tell us just what component is needed.

"Wow!,those six extra taillights really look nice"

???

from the picture an inefficient way may be to use 2 extra relays

ok i dont know how to do any drawing on her eor posting pictures, but one light is directly linked to your turn signal/flasher
hooked up in parallel with that light you should be able to hook up a relay which would then close a circuit when its solenoid is energized. That light which is now the second light would also have a relay in parallel with it and would do the same thing . The flasher would then be used to disengage the first light/relay which in turn would disengage the other relays. the real problems with this idea are the speed at which the realys engage (which is likely pretty fast, and a standard flasher would be pulling a bit more current through the system which would affect the flasher time that it is engaged. (I am forgetting off hand whether a flasher goes faster or slower with more current, but im thinking faster because it is a thermal switch and more current gets hot faster)
This should also be able to be done vis solid state (chips) using a 555 timer to select the time to "ignite" the second/third light, but im still not sure how the flasher would affect the system so it may need to be removed.
I'll think about it some more, and if someone would tell me how to post a picture I could draw up a schematic (when i get around to it), and post it.

Hey Greg, I'm glad this little project has inspired you!

I'll be lookin' forward to your results.

Ok i got a circuit to work.
I have built it, but there is a small problem
I have made it so the flasher to the rear lights needs to be diabled. So by this if one were to replace the flasher with a wire, then teh front lights wont flash. SO... It appears it will me necessary to remount the flasher so it acts upon the front lights only. Doe this sound accessable (I havent looked at the front light wiring yet.

Patrick... try this web site- www.euronet.nl/users/fo elmo/techno.htm

Greg, it's starting to sound complicated.

GW, it appears that the link is either dead or misspelled.

JC Whitney used to stock those sequential blinkers, but I don't remember seeing them in their catalog last time I looked.

If I understand his site right.... the one at BlinkBlink is a solid sate unit that mounts back with the lights. It uses a module for each side. You only change to a heavier duty signal can. There is very little change to the cars wiring.

try this patrick.... http://www.euronet.nl/users/fo_elmo/techno.htm

After reading Ogre's comments and then revisiting the BlinkBlink site, I have to agree that there shouldn't be much altering of the original wiring, except for right at the lamps. The site readdressed by 454 (thanks!) also confirms this. At this site there is a schematic of a relatively simple design which should accomplish what I want. However, I'm not an electronics expert by any means and I'm not even sure what a "4528" is.

Is there someone who can look at this schematic and maybe describe it in plain English?

i am very interested in this light thing to! i hope someone can explain that diagram because i can't wait to try this! i love attracting attention to my little fiero! i have installed purple neon lights under my fiero-i have a 3 foot tube up front and in the back and a 4 foot tube on each side! this turn signal light will really look cool!

I don't have anything to look that up in exactly. If I remember right, it's a CMOS chip with a couple oscilators on it. It is fed by the main lamp in the set then creates delays for the other 2 lamps.

CMOS chips are a bit nasty to work with. They really hate static electricity.

I can't tell for sure but I think BlinkBlink is using some really basic RC (resistor capacitor) sets to create a delay, and simple transistors to turn on the lamps. Very bullit proof. If the blinkblink unit is also potted, it should be nearly indestructable.

Well my design should be rather bulletproof.
I have two options though.
1) remove the flasher from the rear light circuit
2) Make it so the lights go in sequence (like the picture) only when the lights would normally be on through the flasher. (this would make the sequential lights be a little fast that I was thinking, but I suppose by switching to a slower blinking flasher it would do the joob nicely. I also have a built in pot, to change the speed. I am not sure where on the 4528 you adjust the rate.
Well needless to say my little project is built, but before I throw up the parts list(all Radio shack accessable), assy directions, i'll real world test it in my 85. This can also be slightly modified to use LED's instead of incandescent lights, and it is possible to implement over 10 seperate light banks (if you have the desire to add more)

That's great, Greg. There's now several of us all anxious to hear how you make out.

So I am assuming the preference is not modifying the flaser position in the wiring harness?

Sorry Greg, I didn't realize you were asking us a question.

In my humble opinion, the original flasher set-up should be retained. As has been stated here earlier, the addition of more lamps on the circuit may necessitate the changing of the stock flasher to a different unit to slow down the blinker speed, but that shouldn't be a problem.

It appears to me then that the inner lamp will be lit directly from the stock wiring, and that the other two lamps will be getting a two-step delayed signal from your device. Is that correct?

The inclusion of a "pot" to change settings sounds good. My only concern is that this might be a location for potential problems with moisture and corrosion within the pot itself. I suppose the whole thing could be sealed in silicone once the desired settings have been made.

Well I actually designed the thing so all three lights are computer controlled (via simple gates (NAND/NOR), along with a few power FETS to be used as solid state switches for the incandescent lights. The 12V source coming from the flasher wire will be powering the circuit and the bulbs. This will ensure that all three light stages are on for equal lengths of time. Granted it may not be easy to spot if the first stage is longer or shorter than the other two stages, but I would know, and that would drive me nutty. This is also easily modified if one wants to convert to the high power LED's instead of normal bulbs to make pretty pictures/designs/lit up arrows/etc... using LED's, and to incorperate more stages (frames in the picture) if desired.

Yes I suppose a potentiometer could be a possible area of concern as far as corrosion. I didn't look too close at where to mount the unit, but if i remember corectly, the rear air pump location is rather dry, and the micro pots are pretty well sealed anyhow. With out the pot there is a large possibility that the speed at which the lights turn on may result in only 2 of the 3 bulbs igniting or going through 1.5 cycles then the flasher up fromt resets the system.

Greg, I was a little surprised when I read:

"This will ensure that all three light stages are on for equal lengths of time."

Have you worded this incorrectly or have you altered the way the sequencing works? When looking at the image that I've posted, you can see that the inner lamp comes on first and stays on while the middle lamp comes on. Then they both stay on as the outer lamp comes on. For a split second they are all on at the same time until they all go off together and the cycle repeats. All three light stages are NOT on for equal lengths of time. The inner lamp is on the longest, followed by the middle and then the outer lamp.

Please don't tell me that you've designed it otherwise.

It is just like the above picture, but each stage is on for equal lengths of time
ex:
light 1 on for 1 sec
lights 1+2 on for 1 sec
lights 1+2+3 on for 1 sec
but NOT

light 1 on for 1.2 sec
lights 1+2 on for 1 sec
lights 1+2+3 on for 1 sec

and NOT

light 1 on for 1 sec
light 2 on for 1 sec
light 3 on for 1 sec
but one directly above is real easy to do!

Ok, I get it!

so i don't understand? has anyone got this to work and if they have would you be kind enough to tell us what parts and how to hook it up to make it work!! i talked to my electrical instructor today and he said we need a progressive brake light control to make this work! i have looked at all the parts store and a local radio shack and no one has this piece but they know what it is and they said that will make work what i want the lights to do! please help!!

sloponti, yes I have a working design. The only thing is that I havent mounted it in the car yet. Before I post the info with my name on it, I am going to test it on mine in case of any mounting problems, or other little tidbits that may have been missed (The tacoma narrows bridge is a good example of what can happen without sufficient testing).

OK I got ready to install the little puppy and I noticed a few problems.
I am curious as to peoples suggestions as to which solution is best for each problem.
1) the car is only wired for 2 of the three bulbs to be used as turn signal lights. Possible solutions A: acquire another dual filament socket for the innermost light which is currently used as a running/parking light only.
or B: forget the running light for the innermost light and use the preexisting socket for a turn/brake light.
NOTE: there are six running lights stock, so we would lose only 1 light on each side.
Problem 2) the brake light and the turn signal light are one and the same (one wire and filament is used for them.
Possible solutions
a: when the brake is applied, both signals go in thier sequential order and repeat (this makes signals rather useless when the brake is applied)
b: when the brake is applied they go in sequential order once and stay lit untill the pedal is released. The flaser is then used to reset counting mechanism. Not sure how to do this but it seems feasable with some circuit modification.
c: I am unsure how to make this option possible without a lot a re wiring, but make it so the brake acts normally.
I suppose my design isnt ideal for this situation, since i have the system switching through gates and then using or gates to then keep the previous lights active.
grrrrrrrrr
Well the more i type the more it seems I am going to have to return to the drawing board and redo.

sorry... I didnt mean to get everyones hoes up!

Hey, Rome wasn't built in a day!

1) I think that installing another dual filament socket for the innermost light is the way to go. I like having all six lamps used as running lights and I wouldn't want to sacrifice the innermost ones.

2) Option (a) is no good. Rendering the turn signals useless when the brake is applied is not the route to go. I don't understand option (b). What happens when the brakes and turn signal are on at the same time? I realize that it's the biggest challenge, but option (c) is obviously the one that would work and look the best. The brake lights have to work normally, and the turn signals have to blink (sequentially), even when the brakes and blinkers are all on at the same time.

Greg, is it worth while for you to take a second look at the schematic that I posted to see what the merits are of it, if any?

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-08-1999).]

What do hoes have to do with turn signals????

Hehehe, I just couldnt resist.

Well I got angry at the circuit so I made it do the following.
lights do the sequential thing.
when the brake is applied both sides do a sequential thing once, then stay lit.
if a signal is on, then it does the sequential thing.
the circuit can be used with either 2 or 3 turn siganl lights.
The only way I can see the fixing the one sequence thing with the brakes is to add seperate wires to the lights for the brakes (as per the wiring diagram). Since physically there is one wire for both the brake and turn signal, I dont see a way that a module placed by the lights could distinguish between a turn signal and brake.
It does seem possible with a few more logic gates to make it so when the brakes are applied, the turn signal blinks like they do stock, but it will be a bit of a wiring nightmare at first glance, and the two modules I designed (one for each side) would then have to be wired together. Ill think about this option and comment later.
As far as the diagram is concerned, i think it is a cmos chip, which is static sensitive.
This appears to be trouble waiting to happen.
If I get some time Ill look up the specs on those chips and power transistors.

Let's see if we've got this straight.

If you're saying that applying the brakes will result in the blinking sequence taking place ONCE on both sides, and then all the lights stay on until the brakes are released, that's fine. Actually, that's kinda neat, I like that. Now, when the brakes are applied and a turn signal is turned on, does one side blink sequentially while the other side simply continues the display the non-blinking brake lights? If so, that's perfect.

What's the problem, Greg? If this is what you've got, it sounds great!

Yes that is what I have. The thing that is bothering me is that the brakes do the sequence once then stay lit instead of all three turning on at the same time for the brakes. I am curious as to how the old cougar did this. Something is telling me that the cougar had different filaments for the turn and the brake, which would easily remedy this problem.

unless that cmos chip can run one shot then you can't do what you want. Pick a diferant chip, or a diferant method.

I think the Cougar used some mechanical,blinker setup;remembered seeing many changed to normal tailights a few years after they'd come out.
What I want to know is where does the triad come into play?
It's pictured not connected,seems that this may be used to switch/isolate the circuit from the brakes.
Just "found"(finally)the desired setup for my front suspension,new challenge looked interesting.

Well I have thoroughly bench tested my circuit, and it has stood up excellently.
I will be making a circuitboard next, and then install the puppy. I will need to find two more light sockets which match the outermost sockets. I should be hitting the boneyard on Saturday. If I find a bunch of them I will pull all possible for others who may want to do this modification.
So stay tuned for an update which should have a website with all the info you need to make it yourself!
note: when the brakelights go on it will still do ONE cycle of blinks and hold with all 3 illuminated.

As I stated earlier, I like the idea of the lights doing one cycle of the sequential blinking and then all staying on when the brakes are applied. I think that would look really neat!

We've all got our fingers crossed, Greg.

Standard Electric(automotive) used to have a picture guide showing all the available replacement pigtails/sockets,if you can find one,you won't have to dig around in water-filled trunks in the boneyard maybe.