Trinten's SBC/F23 build - The work has begun! (Page 47/69)
fieroguru NOV 11, 09:42 PM
At the time, EFI Connection didn't offer the 58X version, but they now do:
https://www.eficonnection.c...cam-sync-distributor

Vince, you should give them a call and let them know you already have the 24X kit and ask what it would take to upgrade to the 58X. The reluctor wheel should be a simple swap, the critical part would be the timing/trigger point for the 1X cam sensor. If the 1X timing point is in the same spot, then you are likely good. If it changes between the 24X and 58X then you would have to be very careful and likely rework the bracket locking down the distributor position. There isn't much room for the distributor housing to rotate and clear the relocated IAC... everything under the TB is very, very tight.
ericjon262 NOV 12, 02:49 AM
58x means DBW throttle, which also means no IAC.
fieroguru NOV 12, 01:34 PM

quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

58x means DBW throttle, which also means no IAC.



Good catch!

Vince, if you go this route, you will want to explore making one of the DBW throttle bodies work.
Trinten NOV 12, 07:35 PM
Okay. I'll talk it over with Mike. DBW also means swapping out the gas pedal, some other wiring, and finding a newer style cruise control unit.
ericjon262 NOV 12, 07:42 PM

quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

Okay. I'll talk it over with Mike. DBW also means swapping out the gas pedal, some other wiring, and finding a newer style cruise control unit.



actually, you wire brake switch and cruise signals direct to the PCM and it does the rest for you, no module required.
Will NOV 13, 09:24 AM

quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

Thanks Will,

I'll have to check with FieroGuru on his selection of parts. I'm sure at one point he told me (when he was working on it, he was awesome about sending super detailed PMs with pictures and stuff, above and beyond what he put in the thread). I want to understand why he went with these parts to start with, so when I pass all this info along to Mike, he knows why things were done originally.

Oh! I did start doing some research on the issue you were warning me about with 2nd gear starts on the 4T80. There are two solutions, once involves programming, and the other involves some tweaking of the wiring that I don't fully understand - it talked about how the ABS/TCS would send a ground to one of the solenoids to cause the 2nd gear shifts, and explained how to adjust the wiring so that never happens. Thank you for warning me about it!



The 2nd gear starts are an issue unique to the Cadillac PCM when it's removed from the Cadillac... you shouldn't need to worry about that with the 0411
Will NOV 13, 09:29 AM

quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

Okay. I'll talk it over with Mike. DBW also means swapping out the gas pedal, some other wiring, and finding a newer style cruise control unit.




quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

actually, you wire brake switch and cruise signals direct to the PCM and it does the rest for you, no module required.



Exactly... that's why DBW is such a game changer for engine swaps, as well as why OEMs use it.

Yes, you have to install a pedal sensor and wire it up.

But then you do NOT have to:
-Run/adapt a throttle cable (which may be the wrong length or have inconvenient routing, not have a clean attachment to the throttle cam, etc.)
-Have (find, adapt, mount, wire) a cruise servo
-Have (find, adapt, mount, plumb, wire) an IAC

So overall the system is simpler with DBW. The cruise also works MUCH better with DBW, as there's no delay waiting for the cruise servo to take tension on the throttle mechanism and the pedal doesn't move while the cruise adjusts the throttle.

There ARE dual round and oval mono-blade DBW throttles that bolt up in place of LT1 and TPI throttles.

However, you do need to select your OS carefully in order to reap these benefits. MOST 58x OS's get cruise data from the BCM. However, the '09 Trailblazer (dunno why it's just this app, but whatevs) has the cruise switches wired directly to the ECM instead of the BCM. This is the one to use.

ALSO, the 58x system splits the PCM into separate ECM and TCM... Running the 4T80E may be as simple as wiring up a 4T80E TCM (Buick Lucerne as mentioned above) to your 58x ECM of choice, then tuning the shift points in software.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 11-13-2019).]

Trinten FEB 21, 04:52 PM


Hello everyone,

It's been quiet because Mike's garage was occupied through the colder months with another customers car. It's out now, and once he has the rear suspension built up on the passenger side, we'll be rolling it into the garage.

We've also been debating on a few things. The turbo I bought is... well, capable of far more power than my block can handle. The rotating assembly (from the great folks at Ohio Crank), was made to support ~600 on nitrous (original projections were for 450 naturally aspirated and 150 shot of nitrous). Nitrous does hit much harder on internals, so even if you figure that rounds up to ~700 naturally aspirated... this turbo will do more than that.

So I started pricing out a Dart block and an improved rotating assembly from Ohio crank. And because I like safety margins, it was for about 25-30% than I think I'd put down, even at max of the turbo. ( side note: great pre-sales support from both those companies!). The heads and intake would be reused, as would my cam, lifters, and rocker arms. The price on the new block, rotating assembly, ARP gear, stud girdle, gaskets, injectors, etc... It was a little over 5K. It would be a combo that would hold up to ~1300 HP and Torque. Overkill, just how I like it. And I didn't mind spending the money.

Discussing this with Mike, he said "Maybe at this point, you should consider an LS4."

Now, my faith in Mike is pretty deep. So... I spent a week of evenings reading... and asking FieroGuru questions (Thanks again!!).
Incredibly, I discovered Brandon Furches. He has an LS4, bolted up to the 4T80E, and currently has the "Fastest Monte Carlo in the world", pushing around 800 HP and Torque. And had to stop there because he hit the limits on the injectors he was running.

More reading! Found Brandon's build list, which gave me a starting point. So fired up a new excel spreadsheet and started looking things up. Which was not easy because of the LS interchange is not consistent (it's heavily consistent in pockets, but not universally). And Summit Racing doesn't seem to have a way to shave down to a particular LS Platform in their search criteria. So that made searching slow.

Ultimately, I can effectively replicate Brandon's build... with a few tweaks (like starting off with bigger injectors), getting the block/heads refreshed, and it's cheaper than building up the SBC. I found a complete LS4 on Craigslist... and I mean complete. Transmission, accessories, engine, ecu, pedal, etc, for a song. The car had a rear end accident. Mike checked it out, gave me the thumbs up. So, for the moment, it looks like Mike will be modifying the cradle (when it's out again) to change the engine mounts to match the LS4 (sorry Mike!)

If I can get the same horsepower goals, keep a V8 platform, cost me less, and it be recommended by people I trust (Mike and FieroGuru). Then yup! That's what we're doing.

Mike is thinking it'll work out better anyway, he likes the headers on the LS4, and they point in the direction where he was going to put the turbo anyway, so he said it saved me a good chunk of change (he was going to have headers fabricated by a metal shop, with crazy-thick flanges, to fight off exhaust leaks that tend to form on turbo SBC). He also thinks he can continue to use my 0411pcm. Some reading on HPTuners and turned up some folks running crazy stuff on 0411s.

And, though I know many would disagree with this, I am going to stick with a drive-by-cable setup if I can. I have this irrational fear of a short stranding me. Or making the car surge before I can cut the key. I've already found some LS throttle bodies that are cable driven and have the IAC and TPS.

Also, the alignment tool I wanted to buy had gone on sale last month, it does caster, camber, and toe. So Mike is interested to see how well it works.

This does set back when I can get all the body work done, though. And Mike said he'd hate to see me put in my awesome new interior into a car that would be exposed to fiberglass dust and tools-in-pockets, etc. This means we might just "rat rod" the interior for now. Get basic gauges and minimal pieces in place, to make it driveable.

Plans is to have V8 Archie's shop modify their GT Wide Body kit for me (the one that gets rid of the 'ribs' at the mid-point).

[This message has been edited by Trinten (edited 03-24-2023).]

Trinten FEB 21, 05:22 PM
Oh... as for what I'll do with the SBC?

I don't know yet. It's got less than 20k miles on it. I could sell it and probably make around half of what it cost to build. Maybe a little more. So that's an option. I suppose if any of my future project cars are going to stay in the LS world, it doesn't make much sense for me to keep it, even if I want to build it up (or not) to put into another car someday.

So if anyone is looking for a really stout SBC, let me know!

Here's the highlights:

4 bolt main SBC, bored to 355.
AFR 195 race heads
Ultra Pro Magnum 1.6 chrome moly rocker arms
CompCams XFI 230/236 Hydraulic Roller cam (it has an aggressive ramp rate, this thing revs up quick)
Hydraulic lifters
1 pc hardened pushrods
AFR 8019 Valve Springs
JE Flattop forged pistons
Ohio Crank forged connecting rods (I don't recall if they are I or H right now)
Ohio Crank crankshaft (I thought it was cast, Scott, the engine builder, thinks it was forged. He's looking for my old build paperwork).
Holley Stealth Ram intake
Bosch Design III 36lb injectors
Will FEB 23, 02:39 PM

quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

Also, the alignment tool I wanted to buy had gone on sale last month, it does caster, camber, and toe. So Mike is interested to see how well it works.




What tool is that?