California Dreamin (3800SC Manual Swap) (Page 5/6)
Madathlon DEC 10, 05:31 PM
My experience with Cal emissions had been a nightmare, but I did learn a few thing.

If your car did NOT the engine option you choose you have to go thru Referee. (This cost a lot.) You can install a newer engine with all its correct emissions and pass.

IE: engine from a 2000 camaro with its complete supposting hardware (Computer, smog parts) will pass.

Going backwords will get you rejected every time.

IE: Using a chevy 350 from a 1980 Firebird will NEVER pass.

If you hide thing you will get screwed.

Now for a good thing, Ghost mods do pass, like changing a 2.6 V6 for say a 3.4 V6 from the same engine family with the same heads, and intake do not even get a glance over. Looks stock must be stock.

Now doing a tranny swab is tricky also. But if it a manual for a manual and looks stock its likely to pass. BUT going from a Manual to a Auto or the reverse can bring down a nightmare of fee's

------------------
Mark Silva
1987 GT 2.8 V6 5 Speed manual
"The Road trip called life starts with a flat tire and a missing jack"

Larry Nakamura DEC 13, 11:40 PM
Just move to Lake County, CA. Smog is only required if there is a
change of ownership. So you can mod the car all you want as long as you
live there.
Madathlon DEC 14, 04:34 PM
While this is currently true the sad fact is California is changing the laws making smog required in all counties in the next few years


quote
Originally posted by Larry Nakamura:

Just move to Lake County, CA. Smog is only required if there is a
change of ownership. So you can mod the car all you want as long as you
live there.



Notorio DEC 14, 06:05 PM

quote
Originally posted by Madathlon:
While this is currently true the sad fact is California is changing the laws making smog required in all counties in the next few years



How do you know?
ceoair DEC 15, 07:38 PM
Might be cheaper just to move Lol
Rickady88GT DEC 15, 10:10 PM

quote
Originally posted by Notorio:


How do you know?



California brags about affecting emissions regulations across the U.S. They even try to control other Countries.
I am amazed that any parts of California have laxed regulations.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 12-15-2018).]

Notorio DEC 16, 12:27 AM
Hmmmn, there might be hope after all, if I understand the byzantine writing properly, I only have to wait 5 more years for my 88. Here is the text of AB-1274 taking effect Jan 1, 2019. This picks up right before 'Section 2:'


quote
(c) For purposes of subdivision (a), a collector motor vehicle, as defined in Section 259 of the Vehicle Code, is exempt from those portions of the test required by subdivision (f) of Section 44012 if the collector motor vehicle meets all of the following criteria:
(1) Submission of proof that the motor vehicle is insured as a collector motor vehicle, as shall be required by regulation of the bureau.
(2) The motor vehicle is at least 35 model-years old.
(3) The motor vehicle complies with the exhaust emissions standards for that motor vehicle’s class and model-year as prescribed by the department, and the motor vehicle passes a functional inspection of the fuel cap and a visual inspection for liquid fuel leaks.



AB-1274 Smog check: exemption (2017-2018).
Madathlon DEC 17, 02:37 PM
The issue with collector reg/plates is you can't drive it daily, only to events. As to the smog changes it's been on the news a few times and remember this is California after all.

------------------
Mark Silva
1987 GT 2.8 V6 5 Speed manual
"The Road trip called life starts with a flat tire and a missing jack"

thesameguy DEC 17, 04:52 PM

quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

I think you misunderstood him, the LS4 never had a manual transmission from the factory and for that reason will never be a legal engine swap in California. Maybe he said LS1? but for sure the LS4 is automatic only.



Yes, 100%.

When I spoke with WCF two years ago we talked about V8 swaps, and yeah, the answer is you need to use a "RWD LS," not an LS4. Plenty of RWD LSs with a manual, no FWD ones.

At the same time, I spoke with the referee program's norcal regional supervisor last year (he's a friend of a friend) to talk about another swap, and he was *very clear* that a Fiero with an LS and a manual transmission is a non-starter in California. The problem, as he put it, is there is no way to properly configure the exhaust to comply. That was *his* stance. But, as Rick pointed out pass or fail is 100% in the hands of the guy that does your inspection... and that goes BOTH ways. You may find your totally non-compliant car drives away with a BAR sticker, and you may find your 99% compliant car fails for no good reason. My takeaway from the convo with the supervisor was that if I LS'd a Fiero and the ref failed it, I would have zero recourse - the supervisor wouldn't help out.

What I personally suspect is that WCF "knows someone" who passes their cars. My concern would be what happens on that second inspection. I have NOTHING to back this up with, but it sure does seem like WCF gets away with things nobody should be able to.

To that end, I really think the 3.9l+F40 is a good option, but so would be the Saab B284 (or one of the derivatives) and an F40. I doubt the ref could tell a Saab 2.8l with single cam phasing from a Cadillac 3.0 with dual cam phasing. Just saying.

Also, Rick is (of course) spot on about the manual transmission requirements. The reason I was talking to a ref was because I wanted to put a 1994 transverse engine longitudinally into a 1985 car. Completely different transmissions. The BAR does not care about orientation or model numbers or anything like that. In the documentation they use to determine valid engine/transmission combos, it doesn't indicate orientation.
Rickady88GT DEC 18, 01:23 PM

quote
Originally posted by thesameguy:


Yes, 100%.

When I spoke with WCF two years ago we talked about V8 swaps, and yeah, the answer is you need to use a "RWD LS," not an LS4. Plenty of RWD LSs with a manual, no FWD ones.

At the same time, I spoke with the referee program's norcal regional supervisor last year (he's a friend of a friend) to talk about another swap, and he was *very clear* that a Fiero with an LS and a manual transmission is a non-starter in California. The problem, as he put it, is there is no way to properly configure the exhaust to comply. That was *his* stance. But, as Rick pointed out pass or fail is 100% in the hands of the guy that does your inspection... and that goes BOTH ways. You may find your totally non-compliant car drives away with a BAR sticker, and you may find your 99% compliant car fails for no good reason. My takeaway from the convo with the supervisor was that if I LS'd a Fiero and the ref failed it, I would have zero recourse - the supervisor wouldn't help out.

What I personally suspect is that WCF "knows someone" who passes their cars. My concern would be what happens on that second inspection. I have NOTHING to back this up with, but it sure does seem like WCF gets away with things nobody should be able to.

To that end, I really think the 3.9l+F40 is a good option, but so would be the Saab B284 (or one of the derivatives) and an F40. I doubt the ref could tell a Saab 2.8l with single cam phasing from a Cadillac 3.0 with dual cam phasing. Just saying.

Also, Rick is (of course) spot on about the manual transmission requirements. The reason I was talking to a ref was because I wanted to put a 1994 transverse engine longitudinally into a 1985 car. Completely different transmissions. The BAR does not care about orientation or model numbers or anything like that. In the documentation they use to determine valid engine/transmission combos, it doesn't indicate orientation.



It is impossible to legally transplant ANY v8 into a Fiero. By the letter of the law, the exhaust system all the way back to the cats must be used and remain unmodified. Some of the LS engines have more than 2 cats. Keep that in mind when you figure out were the exhaust system will be when it is sitting in the Fiero unmodified? So, that is why smog refs use discretionary decision-making to make sense of things. And this is also the reason some refs will pass a conversion and another wont. This same discretionary decision-making process is used throughout the swap certification concerning ECM, BCM, TCM and evap conversions.
Think about it, there is not a single rear wheel drive engine that can pass certification in a Fiero because of the exhaust system requirements. AND practically all front wheel drive engines are impossible to pass for the same reason. The cat would stick out like a trailer hitch. The ONLY reason we can legally swap ANY engine in a Fiero is because the ref either turns a blind eye to indiscretions or the ref uses common sense and allows us to bend the rules a little.