Originally posted by dratts: We should be able to express our opinions and discuss topics without senseless name calling. It's not intelligent it's juvenile.
Who is stopping you ? Why do you wish to describe how someone else SHOULD speak. If I call someone a dumbocrat what is wrong with that ? What I say is more important than how I say it. I wasn't put on this Earth to please everyone, an impossible task.
If anything, colorful languange gives further insight as to how someone feels. A super adjective if you will.
Perhaps Ray, and possibly yourself, has not read Rules For Radicals by Saul Alinsky. The dumbocratic playbook in which name calling is considered necessary. Screw that "take the high road" crap. Who are the biggest name callers ? Dumbocrats. I am a racist, a homophobe, an irredeemable deplorable, etc etc.
Who was the most notable name caller ? (Hint ... Lying Ted, Low energy Bush, Little Marco, Crooked Hilary, gosh, I can't remember them all.) Oh yeah, Rocket Man. It sure did make for a more interesting primary and the ratings went through the roof. And, it worked.
If I call someone a dumbocrat what is wrong with that ?
Look at the world as it is and not as you would like it to be.....look at it thru it's eyes and not thru yours and you will have the answer to that question.
Originally posted by maryjane: Look at the world as it is and not as you would like it to be.....look at it thru it's eyes and not thru yours and you will have the answer to that question.
I don't get it. You always have sage advice but I don't get what you are advising.
I think I am looking at the world as it is.
I have been told not to believe everything I read and only half the things I see.
I also know the Golden Rule is to "treat everyone how you want to be treated". I take that to heart, to a point. When it comes to how I am treated, I expect them to expect the same.
I don't get it. You always have sage advice but I don't get what you are advising.
I think I am looking at the world as it is.
I have been told not to believe everything I read and only half the things I see.
I also know the Golden Rule is to "treat everyone how you want to be treated". I take that to heart, to a point. When it comes to how I am treated, I expect them to expect the same.
Note the number of times you used the word "I". Viewing the world in a mirror. You are looking at you, not the world..again viewing things and the world as you think it should be.
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I also know the Golden Rule is to "treat everyone how you want to be treated". I take that to heart, to a point. When it comes to how I am treated, I expect them to expect the same.
This view of things is one of the ways things get screwed up. You only stated part of your view. The other part, is that you are not bothered (much) by what anyone else says of you , what moniker or what tag they may give you, (nor am I) so you erroneously assume everyone else is the same way. They are not, and in fact, few are. You 'expect', others not to be bothered by being called a name they find offensive, simply because you aren't. This is not a true view or expectation of the world around us.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-06-2018).]
"Civility is a component of a system of reasoned debate, not its end product. Civility is necessary in a system where people reason in good faith in order to come to the best solution to the policy challenges facing them. Civility lubricates that process, and allows people of good faith to disagree without engendering unnecessary and destructive discord.
People of good faith. See, that’s key.
The problem is that progressives are not people of good faith.
They are not trying to reason. They are not trying to compromise. They do not accept the basic concept that all American citizens have inalienable rights and that the law must apply equally to everyone. They hate us."
If you somehow think that "threedog", or Ronald or ANY of the crop of leftists that come here somehow don't know what the majority political and ideological population here is, then you're seriously mistaken.
They know damn well.
You're NOT going to change their minds , or even get them to engage in reasoned debate in good faith. EVER.
They have shown that over and over and over again on this forum.
They post their leftist crap here for ONE REASON.......to give their middle finger to the majority.
They deserve what they get in response.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-07-2018).]
You're NOT going to change their minds , or even get them to engage in reasoned debate in good faith. EVER.
They have shown that over and over and over again on this forum.
They post their leftist crap here for ONE REASON.......to give their middle finger to the majority.
They deserve what they get in response.
Again, looking at the world thru a mirror instead of seeing the world as it is.....unless you truly believe the world really is such a dark ugly place that it's not what's being said that's a sin....the real sin seems to be that anyone possessed the gall, the audacity, the tenacity to even say it at all......here, in this sanctuary of right aisle ideals.
Not a person here, regardless of their 'official' political or religious affiliation..is without at least one attribute that goes against some majority at any given time. When the 'dumbocrats' are all gone..banned or left of their own accord...what's next? Which words and thoughts will be next to call all to the windmill with torch and pitchfork? Which ideology will be the next to target? For many, I don't think it even matters any longer, as long as we can find, devise or invent 'something' ..an OT cause celebre with which to cast them out. How long before we turn on each other ........for lack of any other?
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-07-2018).]
Again, looking at the world thru a mirror instead of seeing the world as it is.....unless you truly believe the world really is such a dark ugly place that it's not what's being said that's a sin....the real sin seems to be that anyone possessed the gall, the audacity, the tenacity to even say it at all......here, in this sanctuary of right aisle ideals.
Not a person here, regardless of their 'official' political or religious affiliation..is without at least one attribute that goes against some majority at any given time. When the 'dumbocrats' are all gone..banned or left of their own accord...what's next? Which words and thoughts will be next to call all to the windmill with torch and pitchfork? Which ideology will be the next to target? For many, I don't think it even matters any longer, as long as we can find, devise or invent 'something' ..an OT cause celebre with which to cast them out. How long before we turn on each other ........for lack of any other?
A little overly melodramatic, especially so since nobody has left here other than being voted out or leaving by their own accord, so I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
Every single person here gets one vote on every other person, (or at least that's supposed to be the way it works), so they vote their own conscience. I sure as hell don't have control over other members or the collective direction this forum goes.
If Ray or anybody else wants to clutch their pearls and go off to their "safe space" because people say "mean things" then that's their prerogative.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-07-2018).]
Originally posted by maryjane: Note the number of times you used the word "I". Viewing the world in a mirror.
My, that does sound pretty selfish when you put it that way. However I can only speak for myself. To play off a recent comment you made, there are a million stories opinions in the naked city.
It is not that I don't have empathy for others, far from it, but it doesn't extend endlessly.
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Originally posted by maryjane: You are looking at you, not the world..again viewing things and the world as you think it should be.
Don't we all ? I also see the world as it should be, but it is not. I try to make it so, just as a cop tries to make the streets safe.
Is it really me who is being selfish ? Or those that demand that I speak in their genre'. Dumbocrat/democrat, same thing. Damn/darn, same thing. Something goes wrong, I can say frack, zhit, damn, darn, oh gosh. The same damned thing except sometimes word choice colors the language with more emotion.
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Originally posted by maryjane: This view of things is one of the ways things get screwed up. You only stated part of your view. The other part, is that you are not bothered (much) by what anyone else says of you , what moniker or what tag they may give you, (nor am I) so you erroneously assume everyone else is the same way. They are not, and in fact, few are.
Incorrect. Everyone else may have many different ways, and I am tolerant. I allow them to be them. Is it too much to expect the same ?
Believe it or not, some people enjoy a spirited verbal joust. Whether they are a participant or not.
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Originally posted by maryjane: You 'expect', others not to be bothered by being called a name they find offensive, simply because you aren't. This is not a true view or expectation of the world around us.
Now now, hold on there. I don't expect anything. I have no right to. Expectation of the world around us ? There are a million expectations in the naked city.
Don, I am still mulling over your thoughts, rethinking how I feel. Thanks.
Ray or anybody else wants to clutch their pearls and go off to their "safe space" because people say "mean things" then that's their prerogative.
OK, well, I though I was OUT but you pulled me back in.
Where the heck did you get the idea that I was clutching pearls OR looking for a safe space?
What indicated to you, either here OR in your confrontational PM's, that I wouldn't have the fortitude to point out your hypocrisy?
Remember, all I did was ask for less derision and more comity among members. In return I received MORE derision and name calling. That's the reason for my boycott.
Certainly NOT cowardice.
The irony is, you and the other rabid right wingers are looking to make the entire O/T a safe space.
As Don points out, YOU can't see it but that doesn't mean it isn't real.
Remember, all I did was ask for less derision and more comity among members. In return I received MORE derision and name calling. That's the reason for my boycott.
... Snowflakes, indeed.
You did more than just "ask".
Again, I am not your problem. I am not a problem to you in any way shape or form.
I will happily continue to be me. Even if you label me extreme right. Your label means nothing to how actual life is performed in the Kania household.
Originally posted by RayOtton: Remember, all I did was ask for less derision and more comity among members.
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Originally posted by maryjane: Viewing the world in a mirror. You are looking at you, not the world..again viewing things and the world as you think it should be.
Originally posted by RayOtton: Remember, all I did was ask for less derision and more comity among members.
Heh, I remember when JazzMan started a thread which went political, derision driven. He soon made another thread called the "non politcal" same thing. The political thread went like four pages. The non political thread about six posts.
Contrast that with this thread where some would like less derision but where derision exists. It is the longest running thread (# of replies) on page one.
Since this forum has gone to an ad funded nature, hits/clicks help, as well as replies.
The irony is, you and the other rabid right wingers are looking to make the entire O/T a safe space.
As Don points out, YOU can't see it but that doesn't mean it isn't real.
Snowflakes, indeed.
Ding Ding Ding!! winner. I see more "WAH! WAH! WAH! I don't get what I want and deserve and it's someone else's fault" out of the right here than I EVER saw out of the entire OT left combined.
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If you somehow think that "threedog", or Ronald or ANY of the crop of leftists that come here somehow don't know what the majority political and ideological population here is, then you're seriously mistaken.
They know damn well.
You're NOT going to change their minds , or even get them to engage in reasoned debate in good faith. EVER.
They have shown that over and over and over again on this forum.
They post their leftist crap here for ONE REASON.......to give their middle finger to the majority.
They deserve what they get in response.
And just who, are the conservatives giving and have been giving, the middle finger to for years and years? Thin empty air? Not likely.
I've been here nearly 17 years now. When I look back and when I talk in person to just the many Texas members that used to post in OT on an almost daily basis and ask why they are no longer here, the single most common reason given, is...... the subject we are discussing now, and most of them are conservatives. I'm on a couple other very loosely moderated boards...cattle raisers.. and believe me, like PFF OT, the vast majority are gun totin, hard working, never back down conservatives, but we have plenty of cattlemen and women from NY, Illinois, and California as well. We don't talk to each other like I see happening here. And we don't talk 'about' other demographics in nearly the personally offensive and pointed ways I see here either. We just don't. We often disagree, but not on a personal level.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-07-2018).]
Again with the pearl clutching meme. And again, the rabid right wingers are the ones clutching them.
Clearly, you can't stand being challenged.
The benefit of this thread is that it proves that Right Wing ideologues are as incapable of crossing the divide as Left Wing ideologues and just as likely to attack anyone who strays from the pack, even if it is to promote a better atmosphere.
Heck, ESPECIALLY if they're trying to promote a better atmosphere.
The rest of the membership here is scratching their collective heads at the sarcasm and derision in each and every comment you make.
FWIW, we can continue ad infinitum.
You can post pictures of pearls, crying babies, screeching juveniles, really, any graphic you choose that depicts temper tantrums.
However, the die is cast.
You look terrible in the eyes of your comrades here.
First up, this is the only O/T thread I'm involved in so my boycott is in effect.
Considering my name is in the title and an effort is being made to impugn my good name it is only fitting that I respond.
Know what's funny? 6 months ago, when Furgal made denigrating comments about my caring for my deceased wife the same guys who are now calling me a pearl clutching snowflake were extolling my courage.
Just shows, when you question the orthodoxy, the fangs come out.
However, it's all to the good.
Seriously, you won't come off looking like a bunch of raving maniacs unable the handle a different opinion in an adult fashion.
Trust me, if you like your orthodoxy, you can keep your orthodoxy.
Originally posted by maryjane: Make up your mind..which is it?
Ok, poorly worded.
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Originally posted by cliffw: I don't expect anything. I have no right to.
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Originally posted by cliffw: When it comes to how I am treated, I expect them to expect the same.
Let me fix that !
They should expect the same.
Us irredeemable deplorables, we have nothing of worth value to say, because the rest of you can not see the forest thru the trees.
I don't want ...
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Originally posted by RayOtton: The irony is, you and the other rabid right wingers are looking to make the entire O/T a safe space.
As Don points out, YOU can't see it but that doesn't mean it isn't real.
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Originally posted by maryjane: Ding Ding Ding!! winner.
My oh oh my oh.
Ray'o, , prayer do tell, ... how do you figure we want this to become a safe place. Evidence please. We are willing to interact each and every time. Not everybody is afraid of division.
I know Don is backing your opinion. Why is it that, what we think, is not real also, ?
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Originally posted by maryjane: I see more "WAH! WAH! WAH! I don't get what I want and deserve and it's someone else's fault" out of the right here than I EVER saw out of the entire OT left combined.
My, I have not seen anything like that, and, their are lies, damned lies, and statistics. Heh, the left O/T, funny stuff. Five, six, eight, maybe ten at any given time ? Perhaps we should be more inclusive. One way to do it is to agree with them.
Now, when we do not agree with them, it never starts with the armagedon like you all claim it to be. In fact, I think you all are over exaggerating.
Speaking for myself, I have had some humdingers of discourse with left leaning members. In the style I wish to speak. I never slammed them, I did though slam their ideology.
A few members cone to mind. Toad man Patrick, 84Bill, JazzMan, jaskiespyder, even fierofetish, John Striker, even you maryjane. Rinselberg.
After slamming jaskiespider, repeatedly, I did it with respect. One of the few times that I went to Technical Discussion, he was the first to offer advice.
I recently posted in Chat to Patrick an invite to come back to T/OT. We had a cordial conversation via PM.
What you are all doing is hating the battle of free speech.
I stand with Ray on this issue. Snowflake is generally not the first word that comes to mind when most people meet me and my safe place is wherever I happen to be at the moment.
I received similar opposition last June in this thread, and after rereading it, it was interesting to see that opinions were not necessarily divided along the same lines.
I believe that in both cases, some of the opposition is because of a failure to comprehend the motivation behind the position. However, some of it is simply because a few of you are just obstinate*.
* a more palatable substitution for "little bitches"
[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 03-08-2018).]
I recently posted in Chat to Patrick an invite to come back to T/OT. We had a cordial conversation via PM.
...
Cliff, you completely ignored my PM to you.
And then when I re-posted my own wordsHere for you to see (and to perhaps acknowledge), you were upset that I had done something "against the rules".
Cliff, I don't think you're a bad guy... but for whatever reason you seem totally incapable of comprehending that not everyone wants to b!tch and bicker all the time! You seem to believe constant confrontation is normal behavior. Myself and many others who used to frequent O/T just got so freakin' sick of it... and moved on.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-08-2018).]
I stand with Ray on this issue. Snowflake is generally not the first word that comes to mind when most people meet me and my safe place is wherever I happen to be at the moment.
I received similar opposition last June in this thread, and after rereading it, it was interesting to see that opinions were not necessarily divided along the same lines.
I believe that in both cases, some of the opposition is because of a failure to comprehend the motivation behind the position. However, some of it is simply because a few of you are just obstinate*.
* a more palatable substitution for "little bitches"
If MY comments in that thread make me one of your "little bitches" then I'm not unhappy with the term.......not that I really give much of a damn anyway since I've never had any pearls to clutch or frilly, little panties to get in a bunch over being called a name.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-08-2018).]
.......not that I really give much of a damn anyway since I've never had any pearls to clutch or frilly, little panties to get in a bunch over being called a name.
I call BS.
You've gone out of your way to post graphic after graphic depicting me as a wimp.
That takes effort, which indicates someone who does give a damn. Someone who DOES get their panties in a knot when his intolerance and poor forum behavior are on full display.
Same for Cliff. Parsing all those comments for rebuttal is a PITA. It takes time and effort. Indicating that he too has a problem with knotty panties.
Defending orthodoxy is hard work.
Keep at it boys. You are heaping much glory upon yourselves. /sarcasm off
And then when I re-posted my own wordsHere for you to see (and to perhaps acknowledge), you were upset that I had done something "against the rules".
Not true Patrick. Neither of your charges. As you can see here I apologized for missing your PM. It's in the same thread. Third paragraph.
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Originally posted by cliffw: Sorry I never answered your PM. I don't PM much. You know where to find me, or, you can call me. 210 471 1192. I don't text either. You won't find me on FaceSpace or twatter. I did read your PM, and thank you. I am between homes and computer challenged (accessibility to my desktop. Working from a I-phone or my tablet, which both suck in my opinion).
Sorry I did not get my facts correct, in saying we PMed.
Neither was I upset you posted your PM in public, against the rules I thought. Which is why they are private messages. I don't know where I got the opinion it was against the rule. No matter, I was not upset and why should I be ?
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Originally posted by Patrick: Cliff, I don't think you're a bad guy... but for whatever reason you seem totally incapable of comprehending that not everyone wants to b!tch and bicker all the time! You seem to believe constant confrontation is normal behavior. Myself and many others who used to frequent O/T just got so freakin' sick of it... and moved on.
Interesting. Very interesting. Tell me, ... do you go to a country bar and demand Rock and Roll, a Chinese eatery and demand Mexican food ? Tell me when the wishes of one group outweigh the wishes of others ?
Constant confrontation is normal behavior in life away from the forum. In marriage, on the job, at the car dealer, it can even happen with neighbors, friends, and family.
To your last point, , move on little doggie if you so wish. Disclaimer, move along little doggie is not an insult, it's a quote from some movie I saw.
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Originally posted by RayOtton: I call BS.
You've gone out of your way ...
That takes effort, which indicates someone who does give a damn. Someone who DOES get their panties in a knot ...
Same for Cliff. Parsing all those comments for rebuttal is a PITA. It takes time and effort. Indicating that he too has a problem with knotty panties.
Defending orthodoxy is hard work.
Funny funny funny !
Defeating the orthodoxy of another is harder work, don't you think ?
Parsing comments for rebuttal is a PITA ? Speak for yourself.
I see what you did there Ray. Giving us a taste of what you think is our own medicine. Funny stuff. Considering you are the one with their panties in a wad.
You get some credit Ray. williegoat was reaching out to you, to be sure you are ok. At least you didn't start another of those infamous "I am leaving" threads. By many who never leave.
I hope you stick around. I would like to see Patrick and others come around more often. I am not going to kiss azz to make it happen.
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 03-09-2018).]
, prayer do tell, ... how do you figure we want this to become a safe place. Evidence please. We are willing to interact each and every time. Not everybody is afraid of division.
?
, move on little doggie if you so wish. Disclaimer, move along little doggie is not an insult, it's a quote from some movie I saw.
