Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 11-05-2017).]
My wife got the news alert on her phone while we were on the way home from the store. She's been watching a news feed on it from Right Side Broadcasting. The latest I've heard is 27 dead and 30 injured but numbers always seen to wax and wane before the real total is known. More than 0 is to many in my book anyways but still this is tragic. Kids are among those killed and injured. From what I heard on the broadcast, it's about half the congregation that's been injured or killed.
Chelsea Handler: Innocent people go to church on Sunday to honor their God, and while doing so, get shot in killed. What country? America. Why? Republicans.
Well, I know a Netflix show I won't be watching. I may just cancel my Netflix now.
[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 11-05-2017).]
When you read some of the comments on these stories. It's both funny and sad at the same time. One side says the guy is a Muslim extremist and the other says he's a white supremacist. They must be privy to information available only to a few because no one to my knowledge has released the identity of the shooter. By the few pictures I've seen of the surviving parishioners, I would venture a guess that a white supremacist shooter is off the table.
Nyt and other have releases a "all first names" name and pictures, also reports of a dishonorable discharge from the airforce.
100% speculation but it wouldn't surprise me if the guy has a history of domestic abuse and the attack on the church might have been motivated by separation from his wife that may have been facilitated by the church. Again 100% speculation.
[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 11-05-2017).]
To save some of you the effort of looking, it is not illegal (generally) to carry concealed weapons in a place of worship in Texas unless the owner deems it as trespassing. At least, that's the way I read the link. The unfortunate truth is, some folks carry all the time and others only when they feel the need due to perceived threat. This is a small town where no one felt threatened and due to unknown reasons, many paid with their lives today. ------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 11-05-2017).]
Today's mass shooting in Sutherland Springs, Texas, was only halted after an armed Texan "engaged" the killer and put an end to the rampage, the Texas Rangers reported. Freeman Martin, a major in the Texas Rangers and a spokesman for the Texas Department of Public Safety, says the suspect dropped his rifle and fled after being confronted by a local man who had grabbed his rifle.
Freeman provided a timeline of the tragedy in a press briefing Sunday evening.
"At approximately 11:20 this morning a suspect was seen at a Valero gas station in Sutherland Springs, Texas," Martin said. "He was dressed in all black. That suspect crossed the street to the church, exited his vehicle and began firing at the church."
"That suspect then moved to the right side of the church and then continued to fire," he continued. "That suspect entered the church and continued to fire. As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his rifle and engaged that suspect. The suspect dropped his rifle, which was a Ruger AR assault-type rifle and fled from the church."
"Our local citizen pursued the suspect at that time," Freeman went on. "A short time later as law enforcement responded that suspect right at the Wilson/Guadalupe County line crashed out and was found deceased in his vehicle. At this time we don’t know if it was a self-inflicted gunshot wound or if he was shot by the local resident. We know he’s deceased in the vehicle. "
The suspected killer is being reported as Devin Patrick Kelley. However, Freeman would reported, "The suspect has not been completely identified. We believe he’s a young white male, maybe in his early 20s. He was dressed in all black, tactical type gear and was wearing a ballistic vest." https://news.grabien.com/st...ngaged-killer-ending
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.
I don't want to jump to conclusions either, but hearing that it was a young 20-something male wearing all black, reminds me a lot of the news blurbs this weekend about Antifa wanting to cause chaos and mayhem and punish Trump voters.
Wondering if this dude was an Antifa punk? Regardless of the motivation, good to hear he is dead.
Can't imagine what the families and the community is going through right now. It is very sad and disheartening.
I don't want to jump to conclusions either, but hearing that it was a young 20-something male wearing all black, reminds me a lot of the news blurbs this weekend about Antifa wanting to cause chaos and mayhem and punish Trump voters.
Wondering if this dude was an Antifa punk? Regardless of the motivation, good to hear he is dead.
Can't imagine what the families and the community is going through right now. It is very sad and disheartening.
That is also the first thing that came to mind when they described his clothing.
I don't want to jump to conclusions either, but hearing that it was a young 20-something male wearing all black, reminds me a lot of the news blurbs this weekend about Antifa wanting to cause chaos and mayhem and punish Trump voters.
Wondering if this dude was an Antifa punk? Regardless of the motivation, good to hear he is dead.
Can't imagine what the families and the community is going through right now. It is very sad and disheartening.
If, that were to be true, then I doubt the "authorities" will advertise it. Talk about a way to start a civil war............................................
If, that were to be true, then I doubt the "authorities" will advertise it. Talk about a way to start a civil war............................................
But what kind of civil war? Who would be expected to be fighting whom? Not being a smart azz. Just curious.
Originally posted by blackrams: Concealed Carry in places of worship.
Indiana (where I just moved from for those that don't know) doesn't have any law that states you can't carry (open or concealed) in a church, etc. Probably a good thing as about 70% of the men (and quite a few of the ladies) in my "old" church (which I miss like you wouldn't believe) carried, including at least one of the pastors. As far as I know, NC is the same. (At least I hope it is since I carry everywhere I go, including to church.)
But what kind of civil war? Who would be expected to be fighting whom? Not being a smart azz. Just curious.
At this point, I'd be guessing if I said anything. Antifa was suggested, I'm not really sure. But, such actions normally lead to reactions. That ain't always a good thing.
Death is too good for these shooters. We need to bring back torture, at least take them alive so other inmates can carry out the true sentence these f***s deserve.
A year of intense pain per victim would be a good start. No quick trip to allah, take them to G bay and MAKE them talk.
This world is getting so F'in sad, I don't mean pathetic sad, I mean make you cry sad.
I don't want to jump to conclusions either, but hearing that it was a young 20-something male wearing all black, reminds me a lot of the news blurbs this weekend about Antifa wanting to cause chaos and mayhem and punish Trump voters.
Wondering if this dude was an Antifa punk? Regardless of the motivation, good to hear he is dead.
Can't imagine what the families and the community is going through right now. It is very sad and disheartening.
They called for it nov 4th. they are a terrorist group and need to be treated as one.
A dramatic account of a high speed car chase after a mass shooting in a Texas church has emerged from one of the gunman’s pursuers, who describes a gunfight and subsequent crash.
Motorist Johnnie Langendorff has told how he was driving near to Sutherland Springs First Baptist Church on Sunday morning when he saw two men shooting at each other.
He saw the church gunman – now named as Devin Kelley – take off in his car and a member of the local community came over to ask for help.
Langendorff told a local TV station Ksat.com: “I pulled up to the intersection where the shooting happened. I saw two men exchanging gunfire, the other being the citizen of the community. The shooter of the church had taken off, fled in his vehicle, the other gentleman came and said we need to pursue him. And that’s what I did, I just acted.
Langendorff said he did not know the community member.
“He was just a member of the community and he came to my vehicle in distress with his weapon. He explained very quickly what happened. He got into the truck and I knew that it was time to go.”
Langendorff said the gunman sped off but the duo soon caught up with him.
“He got a little bit of a jump on us. We were doing about 95 [mph] down [Route] 539 going around traffic and everything. Eventually he came to a kind of a slowdown and after that we got within just a few feet of him and then he got off the road.
“He just lost control. That is when I put the vehicle in park and I was still on the phone to Dispatch [police]. The other gentleman jumped out and has his rifle drawn on him. He didn’t move after that.”
Langendorff said police arrived with seven minutes and surrounded the gunman’s vehicle.
“We led police to him. Everybody else was headed to the church, all the other officers were responding to the church. From the time we actually stopped, it was about five to seven minutes. The police arrived and then they pushed us back and they took care of the rest. I didn’t see anything after that.”
Langendorff said he acted on instinct when asked to help.
“I was trying to get him, to get him apprehended. It was strictly just acting on what the right thing to do was.”
His Facebook page has since been filled with messages of thanks and praise.
One said: “Well done, Johnnie! You’re a true patriot and a hero. Thank you for coming to the aid of those in need, at such a terrible time.” Click to show
Nyt and other have releases a "all first names" name and pictures, also reports of a dishonorable discharge from the airforce.
100% speculation but it wouldn't surprise me if the guy has a history of domestic abuse and the attack on the church might have been motivated by separation from his wife that may have been facilitated by the church. Again 100% speculation.
ll the media is claiming abusive father, yet his last call made was that he was shot and didn't think he make it, to his father.. Seems the media is making up the story as they go.. per the norm today..
He was abusive garbage, he was cout-marshalled for beating his wife and child.
Abuse can be a cycle and he could have been abused by his dad yet still respected him, it's not uncommon at all.
He did not have a dishonorable discharge ( he had a bad conduct discharge ) and he was in the military system that does not report into the NICS system for lower than felony domestic cases.
... the court-martial date doesn't match up with the the reported discharge date.
Not unusual. The court martial sentencing is exactly that. The effective date of discharge is dependent on however long it takes admin/personnel to process him out, and that is assuming he didn't appeal the court martial outcome. It can take weeks or even months, but it hardly ever takes place immediately after the court martial proceedings are over. (yes, military personnel do have a right under UCMJ to appeal both conviction and sentence, especially if the outcome includes a less than honorable discharge or confinement for more than 1 year. In those cases, appeal is automatic, tho in military legalese, it is called a review, and it's done by at least one outside judge)
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-06-2017).]
I can't watch the live update above, but from what I gathered, one of the reasons for the difference in the dates of the court martial and the actual date of discharge was that he was ordered confined for a year. When you go to military prison, you are still in the military, until your sentence is fulfilled.
quote
In 2012, while stationed at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, Mr. Kelley was charged with assault, according to Air Force records, which said he had repeatedly struck, kicked and choked his first wife beginning just months into their marriage, and hit his stepson’s head with what the Air Force described as “a force likely to produce death or grievous bodily harm.”. “He assaulted his stepson severely enough that he fractured his skull,” said Don Christensen, a retired colonel who was the chief prosecutor for the Air Force. “He pled to intentionally doing it.”
Prosecutors withdrew several other charges as part of their plea agreement with Mr. Kelley, including allegations that he repeatedly pointed a loaded gun at his wife.
He was ultimately sentenced in November of that year to 12 months’ confinement and reduction to the lowest possible rank. His final duty title was “prisoner.”.
After his confinement, Mr. Kelley was forced out of the military with a bad conduct discharge.
If the wheels of his military admin unit worked as slowly as most, it is very possible that he was not actually discharged until early 2014, since he presumably spent from late 2012 until late 2013 (1 yr sentence) in prison. If a news source only gave the years, it would appear that 2 full years had elapsed between the time of court martial (2012) and the date of discharge (2014).
But, if you read the article at the following link, the timelines make it a very convoluted and confusing journey. I would have thought he would be in prison in 2013, but the article states he was living in New Braunfels Tx (not far from San Antonio) and was investigated by civilian LEO for domestic abuse over the next 2 years and was still appealing his court martial.
It's like asking "did he have a red dot" is just a nonsense thing the media went after in vegas. Ultimately it makes no difference.
Earlier I said the shooter was stopped by a shotgun, that was incorrect, that was info given by the driver in an early interview, he apparently want gun literate.
If you watch one video, watch this one.
[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 11-06-2017).]
The keyboard warriors are out in force saying that this kind of thing never happened until Trump took office. Oy! Do they actually expect anyone to believe that? Until we stop trying to put band-aids on arterial bleeds, many other Presidents will have situations like this happen during their watch too. Sounds like someone in the Air Force's OSI dropped the ball on this one which let this guy buy the guns he had by not putting him into the national database. He passed the background checks because someone eff'd up. Not because there aren't any background checks. The laws are there, so we don't need more. We just need for them to be better utilized and enforced. It amazes me how, after a tragedy such as this, the first thing some people scream is "we need more gun laws!" Unfortunately, most of time, the laws they're talking about enacting wouldn't have prevented many, if any, of the mass shootings. Universal background checks and a ban on silencers wouldn't have done a damn thing for either the situation in Texas or Vegas. Both of the shooters passed the federal background checks and neither used a silencer. If you're crying out for someone to "do something," maybe what you should be asking them to do is something that will actually make a difference instead of something that only appeases the hysterical masses until the next shots ring out and people wonder "How could this happen? We made new laws?" I think Trump may be right in this situation. Sane people don't pick up weapons and kill dozens of people. But the issue of mental health opens many more doors and only makes things much more complicated.
Do they actually expect anyone to believe that? Until we stop trying to put band-aids on arterial bleeds, many other Presidents will have situations like this happen during their watch too. Sounds like someone in the Air Force's OSI dropped the ball on this one which let this guy buy the guns he had by not putting him into the national database. He passed the background checks because someone eff'd up. Not because there aren't any background checks. The laws are there, so we don't need more. We just need for them to be better utilized and enforced. It amazes me how, after a tragedy such as this, the first thing some people scream is "we need more gun laws!" Unfortunately, most of time, the laws they're talking about enacting wouldn't have prevented many, if any, of the mass shootings. Universal background checks and a ban on silencers wouldn't have done a damn thing for either the situation in Texas or Vegas. Both of the shooters passed the federal background checks and neither used a silencer. If you're crying out for someone to "do something," maybe what you should be asking them to do is something that will actually make a difference instead of something that only appeases the hysterical masses until the next shots ring out and people wonder "How could this happen? We made new laws?" I think Trump may be right in this situation. Sane people don't pick up weapons and kill dozens of people. But the issue of mental health opens many more doors and only makes things much more complicated. 
