OK, folks. Here I'm going to prove that having an degree doesn't do you a damn bit of good if it's not in the area of expertise you're delving into. IOWs, I have no idea what the answer to my problem is.
Here's the challenge. I have a CPAP that is 110 Volts that I need to use at night, according to the manual, uses 5 amps to operate. I want to use this in my RV toy hauler while using RV battery power. I have a total of 4 RV batteries, each is at least 850 CCA. The RV batteries are wired in parallel, positive to positive and negative to negative.
I know I'm going to need an inverter to use 12 Volt DC with a 110 Volt AC machine, I've been looking at a bunch of different inverters, almost all of the ones I'm considering are 410 watts to 800 watts. But, I'm too damn stupid to know exactly what I need without going overboard on an invertor and spending more on this than I need to. Any help would be greatly appreciated. If I haven't provided enough information, just say what I need to get.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
Watts = Volts times amps So a 120 watt invertor would produce 1 amp. A 240 watt would produce 2 amps and so on.
By the way CCA is not the capacity of the battery, but the amount of current a battery can maintain for 30 seconds while turning over a engine. We need amp hours. Need to know the amperage draw of the load also. Machine rated wattage would work too.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 12-18-2015).]
Originally posted by blackrams: I have a total of 4 RV batteries, each is at least 850 CCA. The RV batteries are wired in parallel, positive to positive and negative to negative.
As far as the btteries on the rig go you are probably not needing to be concerned about their CCA, but their "amp/hours" and/or "Reserve capacity" Beyond that I think you just need an inverter that can pull at least 5 amps. But wait for the schooled people to show up
data: "3) RESERVE CAPACITY What does the Reserve Capacity rating mean and how does it apply to deep cycle batteries?
ANSWER: Reserve capacity is the number of minutes a battery can maintain a useful voltage under a 25 ampere discharge. The higher the minute rating, the greater the battery's ability to run lights, pumps, inverters, and electronics for a longer period before recharging is necessary. The 25 Amp. Reserve Capacity Rating is more realistic than Amp-Hour or CCA as a measurement of capacity for deep cycle service. Batteries promoted on their high Cold Cranking Ratings are easy and inexpensive to build. The market is flooded with them, however their Reserve Capacity, Cycle Life (the number of discharges and charges the battery can deliver) and Service life are poor. Reserve Capacity is difficult and costly to engineer into a battery and requires higher quality cell materials. " http://www.dcbattery.com/index.html
I suspect, like all other things in life, as time goes on, you will find more goodies to use/pull off your inverter--perhaps some even while on CPAP (you may be asleep but the missus may not be). Go for the 800 watt unit now, instead of having to upgrade later.
Watts = Volts times amps So a 120 watt invertor would produce 1 amp. A 240 watt would produce 2 amps and so on.
By the way CCA is not the capacity of the battery, but the amount of current a battery can maintain for 30 seconds while turning over a engine. We need amp hours. Need to know the amperage draw of the load also. Machine rated wattage would work too.
OK, thanks. I also gave bad information in my first post. The batteries I have are RV/Boat Trolling (deep cycle) batteries. Also, I looked up and down, back and forth, I see no information indicating amp hours on the batteries.
But, you have provided me with the needed information. If my CPAP requires 5 amps then a 410 watt invertor is not sufficient to provide for it's needs, I need to step up to the 800-1000 watt invertors. Thanks. ------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 12-18-2015).]
I suspect, like all other things in life, as time goes on, you will find more goodies to use/pull off your inverter--perhaps some even while on CPAP (you may be asleep but the missus may not be). Go for the 800 watt unit now, instead of having to upgrade later.
Don, I have no doubt you are right but, I'm one step ahead of her (at least with the batteries), She's got her own.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
OK, thanks. I also gave bad information in my first post. The batteries I have are RV/Boat Trolling (deep cycle) batteries. Also, I looked up and down, back and forth, I see no information indicating amp hours on the batteries.
But, you have provided me with the needed information. If my CPAP requires 5 amps then a 410 watt invertor is not sufficient to provide for it's needs, I need to step up to the 800-1000 watt invertors. Thanks.
Might find one cheap off ebay, sometimes truck stops have them on sale also. If this is going to see regular use, and hard loads look up a solar supplier and get a quality one. Here is a handy graphic you can save and refer to anytime you need a basic electrical equation.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 12-18-2015).]
What CPAP do you have? Mine actually runs on 12VDC and there is an available power adapter for that. The reason I point this out is that it would be more efficient to run it this way than using an inverter (most inverters have an efficiency rating of <90% which means you use the power the cpap uses plus you turn some into heat.
What CPAP do you have? Mine actually runs on 12VDC and there is an available power adapter for that. The reason I point this out is that it would be more efficient to run it this way than using an inverter (most inverters have an efficiency rating of <90% which means you use the power the cpap uses plus you turn some into heat.
I'll look into that, my CPAP is a Phillips not sure of the model #.
Thanks
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
Don't ever let the batteries replace you man. Never!!!!!
OK, please explain to me precisely what my wife's lap top back up battery has to do with me.
quote
Originally posted by gtjoe:
Does it have a power supply brick?
I have a phillips as well
No, at least I don't think it does. Will look at the manual but, pretty sure there isn't a power supply brick.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
just realized the right side is the humidifier. I don't use it.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 12-18-2015).]
OK, folks. Here I'm going to prove that having an degree doesn't do you a damn bit of good if it's not in the area of expertise you're delving into. IOWs, I have no idea what the answer to my problem is.
How sweet, a man who admits his degrees limitation, you put that in there just for me didn't you.
I have to ask Why does your CRAP run on electricity?
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
How sweet, a man who admits his degrees limitation, you put that in there just for me didn't you.
I have to ask Why does your CRAP run on electricity?
Steve
Tried using coal in a boiler but, it doesn't fit in the RV.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
There should be a sticker on the bottom of the blower unit. My Resperonics says 12v @ 5.0amp. Do you not have ac in the rv?
Yes, the RV has AC circuitry and if plugged in, all works as it's supposed to but, when I travel, I don't generally plug in until I get to the destination. I have a generator also but, I'll be damned if I'm leaving it outside running so that it can grow legs and walk off so, I choose to go with secured battery power.
Finally discovered that mine is a series 50 unit. The manual does not say that and where it's supposed to say it on the bottom of the machine is conveniently rubbed out. Hmmm.......... The pictured adaptor (above) will not work with mine due to the little plug in adaptor being different. But, I called CPAP.com and found out they have the right adaptor to fit mine. Will be ordering it ASAP. I should have realized that I was making it harder than it needed to be. Some degreed person has already figured the problem out for us dummies.
Thanks for all the help gentlemen, I sincerely appreciate it and positives will be handed out as appropriate. Wish I could do more.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 12-18-2015).]
Stacking batteries (Run in parallel) is often not a good plan. More so if batteries are not exact same. A weak battery can easily kill others. Plus You need "Deep Cycle" batteries not batteries to start cars. Starter batteries are "Dead" at 11.xV while Deep Cycle are happy down to ~10v.
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6: Watts = Volts times amps So a 120 watt invertor would produce 1 amp. A 240 watt would produce 2 amps and so on.
By the way CCA is not the capacity of the battery, but the amount of current a battery can maintain for 30 seconds while turning over a engine. We need amp hours. Need to know the amperage draw of the load also. Machine rated wattage would work too.
Careful... True for DC anything and maybe for AC Resistive loads only. AC Watts for other loads are often really RMS Watts same as Speakers and don't = Watts as VA.
Many Inverters have VA and Watts listed for this reason. Example: APC Back-ups CS 350 Max Load: 350 VA but only 210 W because is RMS Watts.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
My motorhome had two 12volt, RV/marine batteries. The best any of them has on average is 75 amp hrs, usually less. They were good for a days worth of heavy use. I suggest when you need to replace them, use 'golf cart' batteries that are 6 volt. They dont cost much more than what you have but they average 235 amp hrs. If you spend a lot more, ive found them with 400+ amp hrs. You just have to wire them in series by pairs to get your 12 volts. I replaced my batteries (two 12 volts) with 2 of them. I can get almost a weeks use out of them without charging. I run tvs, satellite, lights, etc almost all day and half the nite. I may get more, but ive not been able to run them down for the time ive needed them and a week is about all I ever take it off grid, usually at race tracks where there is no AC. The only time I use my generator now is to run the air cond since i dont have any inverters big enough. I never plug in when Im away from home. Another benefit is the 6 volt batteries are built for rougher use and you can run them down a lot farther than even 12 volt RV batteries. The construction is better with heavier plates and connectors.
I have two 6 volt, 225 amp hour batteries in my rig. Hooked together to get 12 volts I still have 225 amp hours of battery, but outputting 12 volts instead of 6. I bought a used 3000 watt @ 120v , 12 to 120 inverter for a couple of hundred bucks. This setup will run tv, radio, and low amp lights for about 24 hours. The thing to be aware of is that you should not discharge lead acid batteries more than 50 percent. that means I can use a little over 100 amp hours of 12 volt power before I'm looking for a power pole or generator.
If your using 5 amp hours of 12v power for your cpap, with my battery setup,(2, 6 volt golf cart batteries) , not using the inverter, your out of usable power in about 24 hours.
The more you go past 50 percent draw on the batteries, the shorter the life of the batteries.
Mountainman, I have about the same batteries as you, but with only a 400 watt inverter. I have a built in meter in the coach...shows charge as good, fair, poor. Last race I went to, I ran 2 tvs, a few lights, satellite reciever and dish pretty much continuously for several days. The meter never dipped into fair. If I remember I got over 80 hours when I installed them before it dropped down to fair. Since the new ones were put in, Ive never gotten it to go to poor. Im not sure what the cut off voltages are for the good, fair or poor. Im going to guess prob something like 11.5 v, 9v, below 9 v. With the old batteries I often got into the poor range and everything worked until the inverter automaticly shut off. I never checked to see what its shutoff voltage is. I know the tv pic would start fading and shrink.
He has been smoking some better sht than I ever did then because those are both the same way, at least they look the same to me.
Steve
Seriously?
I take back all those nice things I've said about you.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
I take back all those nice things I've said about you.
So show me I am wrong, other than the second one having the ground and power cable exiting the first battery I see no difference. That should not make it work any better or worse or increase or decrease voltage any different.
I take back all those nice things I've said about you.
Steve, I don't pretend to be an electrical or battery expert so I will simply direct you back to the linked article. Made sense to me but, then I admitted in the first post that I'm an idiot when it comes to this stuff.
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
I already looked at it and some other sites from battery manufacturers and they say the first is right. What do we know about this guy, is he an electrical engineer or rocket scientist?
I already looked at it and some other sites from battery manufacturers and they say the first is right. What do we know about this guy, is he an electrical engineer or rocket scientist?
Steve
Rumor has it that he's an long standing member of IBEW.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
Originally posted by blackrams: Rumor has it that he's an long standing member of IBEW.
actually if this is him on this face book page he works for someplace called Menzies Aviation, as what who knows I mean he is living in a van down by the river. J/K he has a camper but it doesn't say what he did at that place.
An aerospace defense contractor, so with the way things are made for those people I wouldn't believe anything he said. Any electrical engineers out there want to set one of us right?
My dual 12v RV coach batteries came from the RV manufacturer (Tiffin Allegro) wired the first way. I figure making thousands of RVs over 40 years makes them expert enough for me.
My dual 12v RV coach batteries came from the RV manufacturer (Tiffin Allegro) wired the first way. I figure making thousands of RVs over 40 years makes them expert enough for me.
I have to wonder with all the battery overheating problems if the aircraft industry really knows what they are doing when they hook up batteries. Just a dig at the guy who wrote the electrical pictures if he was in the aircraft defense field.
To be honest I think both will do exactly the same thing just don't understand why he chose to say one was any different than the other.
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 12-20-2015).]
I have to wonder with all the battery overheating problems if the aircraft industry really knows what they are doing when they hook up batteries. Just a dig at the guy who wrote the electrical pictures if he was in the aircraft defense field.
To be honest I think both will do exactly the same thing just don't understand why he chose to say one was any different than the other.
Steve
It is for draw Steve.Especially if more batteries are used.
Spreads the current out over the batteries. No hot cables to catch fire.
I have to wonder with all the battery overheating problems if the aircraft industry really knows what they are doing when they hook up batteries. Just a dig at the guy who wrote the electrical pictures if he was in the aircraft defense field.
To be honest I think both will do exactly the same thing just don't understand why he chose to say one was any different than the other.
Steve, I'll offer this opinion. I believe the right way shown equalizes the draw load and recharging for both batteries in a better way. The first or incorrect way would place all the draw and recharge on the primary battery with the second battery acting as a secondary source feeding the primary battery. I could be all wet with that opinion but, that's what I think.
Hopefully someone with more technical knowledge on the subject will chime in.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
Steve, I'll offer this opinion. I believe the right way shown equalizes the draw load and recharging for both batteries in a better way. The first or incorrect way would place all the draw and recharge on the primary battery with the second battery acting as a secondary source feeding the primary battery. I could be all wet with that opinion but, that's what I think.
Hopefully someone with more technical knowledge on the subject will chime in.
It is done the second way, to more evenly draw power from each battery, as well as to ensure more even charging.. In Spark's pictures, diagram 1 would result in battery nearest to load 'sensing' more of the load than the battery further away because of the way the negative cable is connected in the battery pack. Diagram one is the old way, when people didn't really give a crap what each individual battery was "doing" and batteries were inexpensive. Diagram 2 is the more recent and much better way. One other thing it accomplishes, is more evenly matches cable length for bot + and -.
The pictured adaptor (above) will not work with mine due to the little plug in adaptor being different. But, I called CPAP.com and found out they have the right adaptor to fit mine. Will be ordering it ASAP. I should have realized that I was making it harder than it needed to be. Some degreed person has already figured the problem out for us dummies. 
Wish I could do more.
